Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[-LzR-]

ICs can't really camp G&W with their projectiles since they go straight down. Diddy has better projectiles for camping G&W than ICs. G&W also has one of the worst trip animations which means that Diddy can do more against G&W after the trip then he can against most other characters. If the Diddy plays this MU super campy, the only way I could see the G&W winning is if he gets a 9 on the last stock or he times the Diddy out after he gets a 9 kill.

Jebus strikes back part 45454

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

you didnt understand what i meant.

but I don't really think GaW can air camp diddy anyway. Maybe on BF?

He can just put you in bad situations until you commit to something since you're in a *****y position anyway. Also, peanuts are a *****, and fair beats key at some angles.

EDIT:

This post was stupid, so here's a duck standing on another duck.

 

[SFA Smiley]

ICs can't really camp G&W with their projectiles since they go straight down. Diddy has better projectiles for camping G&W than ICs. G&W also has one of the worst trip animations which means that Diddy can do more against G&W after the trip then he can against most other characters. If the Diddy plays this MU super campy, the only way I could see the G&W winning is if he gets a 9 on the last stock or he times the Diddy out after he gets a 9 kill.

Zac is probably like the master of this matchup, he used to play Gnes all the time and do really well against him.

 

[Chuee]

Regarding the Sheik vs Lucas thing.
ftilt --> grab works till I think 50%?
After that he has GR --> DACUS
Judo said it was -3 awhile back but he recently lost to PF so idk how he feels about it now.

 

[Judo777]

Regarding the Sheik vs Lucas thing.
ftilt --> grab works till I think 50%?
After that he has GR --> DACUS
Judo said it was -3 awhile back but he recently lost to PF so idk how he feels about it now.

I'm one of those scrubs that says one thing, then loses and immediately thinks the MU has n to be the reason......... no....... I still think the MU is that bad. PF outplayed the piss out of me, I wasn't willing to GR gay him the whole time til game 2, then I SDed twice game 2, and I still brought it back from a 2 stocks down and whiffed GR DACUS for game. I also had no experience in that MU at a reasonably high level. PF just outplayed me cause hes super good.

I hate it when people like say one thing, then they get beat by someone one week and are like "Oh wow well the MU really is way more even than I said otherwise how could I have lost?" lol

Sheik Lucas might however be closer to even WITHOUT the GR garbage (pink fresh showed me some stuff I didn't know about with Lucas) but with it its a solid -3/-2/.

 

[san.]

You don't like it when people reevaluate their opinions when they are proven wrong about something?

 

[Fuujin]

>2011
>Still calling Sheik a he

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

> gifs for everything

 

[theunabletable]

>2011
>Still calling Sheik a he

If you see Sheik,
please give him my thanks, OK?

[[[[[[[[[[

 

[Fuujin]

[[[[[[[[[[

>>Implying Princess Ruto was around to see when Sheik revelaed HERSELF to be Zelda.
>>Implying Sheik isn't just Zelda in drag and Princess Ruto actually thought she was a guy.
>>Implying Sakurai would be allowed to call her a "she" in the trophy description without the consent of Miyamoto.
>>Implying Aonuma hasn't referred to Sheik as a female himself

 

[KuroganeHammer]

[[[[[[[[[[

To be fair, Princess Ruto is stupid.

 

[Fuujin]

To be fair, Princess Ruto is stupid.

Also a valid point.

 

[theunabletable]

>>Implying Princess Ruto was around to see when Sheik revelaed HERSELF to be Zelda.
>>Implying Sheik isn't just Zelda in drag and Princess Ruto actually thought she was a guy.

ugh **** 4chan

and you're implying that what you're saying is fact.

>>Implying Sakurai would be allowed to call her a "she" in the trophy description without the consent of Miyamoto.

What, so anything said in the smash series is canon because Sakurai wouldn't add something without the creator's explicit consent?

>>Implying Aonuma hasn't referred to Sheik as a female himself

Oh he has? I haven't seen the interview then haha. Source?

anyways, Sheik probably is canonically a girl, but to give a **** enough to post negative stuff like http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13717778&postcount=5767 is really faggy

 

[KuroganeHammer]

If you think Sheik is canonically a woman, why are you trying to argue otherwise?

No one does the "hurr Sheik is male" thing anymore. Just look at her in Brawl it OoT 3D.

 

[Judo777]

You don't like it when people reevaluate their opinions when they are proven wrong about something?

Haha well I was kidding a little. But I DO really hate when people are sooooo intent on a MU being one way, then all of a sudden say the opposite because they recently lost to said character.

Because I personally don't think you can ever evaluate a MU based on one set or even off of one player because you can never be sure if its the MU or just the other player being better.

I get a little annoyed sometimes at people claiming stuff about MU's because they can't beat X player is all I was being a little harsh before tho.

Also guys believe it or not the discussion of sheiks gender is actually not allowed on the boards. One of the first threads on the sheik boards is a warning of gimpyfish infracting people for arguing she is a guy.

 

[ElDominio]

anyways, Sheik probably is canonically a girl, but to give a **** enough to post negative stuff like http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13717778&postcount=5767 is really faggy

Are you seriously that offended? Have you not learned how to deal with the idea of the internet?

 

[SFA Smiley]

Also guys believe it or not the discussion of sheiks gender is actually not allowed on the boards. One of the first threads on the sheik boards is a warning of gimpyfish infracting people for arguing she is a guy.

WHAT?

I lmao'd

 

[Judo777]

WHAT?

I lmao'd

Yea like when I first joined it was one of the first threads. It said "Sheik is a girl. Any intentional references to sheik as a guy or dispute regarding her gender is going to receive a big fatty infraction" or something like that. lol

 

[Orion*]

EDIT:

This post was stupid, so here's a duck standing on another duck.

As far as abusing spacing without getting way to specific to the point where it moves past generally and into this world everything becomes way to ridiculous/awkward. Some things in this game at high level are really hard to explain in words.

It also travels partially into mindgames because of commitment although you have to consider the relative risk reward and options of the said characters.

EX: If I just so barely into GaW's key spacing to bait a dair but not enough that I can move away in time, and then punish a landing with DDD. Is that a mindgame or is that just proper spacing? In terms of matchups you have to somewhat consider it a mindgame because nothing guaranteed comes from spacing... However it's not really a read many times either depending on how good the player is.

Obviously the game and watch player can just start not keying. But then that also reduces his landing options making it easier to cover w/ DDD. So in a way I'm covering his options without mindgaming him. But it's still adaptable. He can hard commit his spacing, or maybe delay or do the key early. But these kind of commitments are generally done when you know what your opponents habits are, especially once again looking at risk reward.

in other words. This **** becomes a pointless game of who's basics are better in the world of theory craft. I can still look at options and risk reward though.
But as far as diddy vs g@w goes I think aircamping isn't going to win games. He can just wait and put him in positions where risk reward far is in diddys favor, and unless theres a stock lead or a short timer left projectiles will it even more complicated on GaWs part.

It's something that I could explain much easier IRL. anyway i just woke up so **** this LOOL going to eat then paint my room/play drums then go play mr.r

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I think he was talking about his own post being stupid, not yours.

Maybe.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

But they can SDI ftilt 9001 times and teleport to the other part of the stage if they have superhuman abilities so obviously it's never gonna work.

You can't SDI Sheiks' ftilt unti X%.

it makes sense. One of the main reasons ICs **** GaW so hard is because our camping isn't really effective because we can't fight back when they try to stop it. Our only option is to continue to jump, and if we're out of jumps we'll get uaired. Diddy kong has bananas and aerials to stop us, but we can insta throw bananas and dair through aerials. To say we can run away from ICs and not diddy makes way less sense.

Diddy isn't even awful. Barely -2 imo.

EDIT: Gonna clarify before someone takes this as face value.

I do not mean to say diddy's options are useless vs our air camping, just that we have more answers to his anti-air camping than we do vs ICs anti-air camping.

When I said that it isn't that bad if G&W has the percentage lead, that doesn't mean "it isn't that bad if G&W has the percentage lead because he can air camp".

Having the percent lead means that he doesn't have to commit to unsafe stuff, and it makes a big difference in the MU.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Sheik is obviously a dude.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Sheik is obviously a dude.

Not in Brawl.

Otherwise he's missing some important parts.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Definitely in brawl.

 

[ElDominio]

Not in Brawl.

Otherwise he's missing some important parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGf2po5LuKs

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Diddy goes even with Wario, Peach and Luigi.

 

[-LzR-]

I thought he lost to the slightly.

 

[zmx]

Diddy goes even with Wario, Peach and Luigi.

Luigi I can understand because of his sliding capabilities and the fact that diddy has trouble doing banana combos even with glide tossing on him. Also I know tornado beats out diddys up B.

Wario also makes sense since his mobility allows him to weave around bananas and lives fairly long as well (he has very good horizontal living capabilities and diddy relies mostly on horizontal kill methods).

Peach I don't understand though. What does she have that makes it even?

 

[-LzR-]

Peach has crazy shieldstuff and can take bananas without any lag at all. Also floating doesn't trip on bananas.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Luigi I can understand because of his sliding capabilities and the fact that diddy has trouble doing banana combos even with glide tossing on him. Also I know tornado beats out diddys up B.

Wario also makes sense since his mobility allows him to weave around bananas and lives fairly long as well (he has very good horizontal living capabilities and diddy relies mostly on horizontal kill methods).

Peach I don't understand though. What does she have that makes it even?

She mostly fights in the air, can rack up damage quickly and has pretty good kill moves.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Peach

pretty good kill moves.

Im not following here...

 

[Z'zgashi]

Peach's kill moves are alright, but I wouldnt call them 'pretty good'. The reason she beats him is due to the fact that she never should be getting tripped by naners due to her floating, and she can easily catch/pick up the naners to use for her own game, forcing Diddy to go nanerless almost. Not to mention, if Diddy decides to actually not use his naners, Peach has access to an item of her own.

Even with all that though, its only slightly Peach's advantage. Diddy still has a lot of options up his sleeves and Peach doesnt have any easy kill setups.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

pretty good kill moves.

I'm not even going to finish this senten

But really, no. She doesn't.

She has fair and f-smash.

inb4sometwatsaysup-smash

 

[Ghostbone]

Peach can't kill.
But neither can Diddy.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Hellooooooo faiirrrrr.

Also throws.

And d-smash.

And Peach's lightweight.

And... and... stuff.

 

[dean.]

Diddy's throws really shouldn't kill. His only real advantage over Peach in the kill moves department is that he has a lot less trouble setting up for the ones he does have.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Well, I guess not, but they do set up for edgeguarding, and Peach's recovery isn't exactly the best thing ever and her air dodge is just... lol.

 

[Ghostbone]

Hellooooooo faiirrrrr.

Maybe

Also throws.

At like 250 at the edge

And d-smash.

Maaaybe

And Peach's lightweight.

Peach ain't that light bro, she lives for a while. (it helps that Diddy doesn't kill vertically)

Edit: She's like almost the same weight as Diddy, so yea.

 

[M@v]

At least diddy can actually combo into his kill moves.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

F-air and N-air are pretty good kill moves since they are reliable. Her U-smash can kill at decent percents if she gets a good read on her opponent.