Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[BlueXenon]

Why is sheik even with falco? Falco can chaingrab sheik.

 

[Chuee]

Why is sheik even with falco? Falco can chaingrab sheik.

Sheik can ftilt lock falco.

 

[-LzR-]

Why is sheik even with falco? Falco can chaingrab sheik.

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Here is what I think should be D3's matchups:

-3:
-2:
-1:
0:
+1:
+2:
+3:
+4:

Zelda should be +2 imo

Why is sheik even with falco? Falco can chaingrab sheik.

Sheik can ftilt lock falco.

Obvious troll is obvious.

GUIZE, WHY IS PICKACHUUU =3 WITH FLACO? FLACO CAN CHAINGARBAGE PIKACHOO

 

[Kuro~]

At least, i'd hope that's a troll...

 

[Fuujin]

MetaKnight
Sonic
die at 160

Gurl what kind of DI are you pulling off?

Here is what I think should be D3's matchups:

-3:
-2:
-1:
0:
+1:
+2:
+3:
+4:

I see you changed Zelda to -1.

 

[Doc King]

Too bad Ness' PK Fire is a lot riskier in this match up than Lucas' is.

Believe me, Lucas also does more shield pressure with safer moves. Ness really struggles to attack while being safe. That and Ness gets demolished by DDD offstage in my own experience and from what I've seen. It's a tough match up.

I do agree with the offstage stuff. I probably just suck at the matchup.

*dead* at mentioning rollout and rest as kill moves

You shouldn't be having trouble with PKF honestly lol. Also if D3 can grab Lucas from release he most likely can do it to ness too.
The reason Lucas does better is because D3's CG puts Ness in an awful position offstage while Lucas doesn't have the same trouble recovering after the CG that Ness does.

D3 can't regrab ness with a dash grab release.

Gurl what kind of DI are you pulling off?



I see you changed Zelda to -1.

Yup.

 

[Fuujin]

Why is that?

 

[Tesh]

Even tho Sonic still gets kind of ***** in the matchup, he isn't easy to gimp at all and you basically just have to keep hitting him until he dies. Its pretty rare to hit a careful anything that can kill early with mk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSqZ175yBtk&t=1m30s

Toppest of the top level play. MK died at 98, Sonic died at 163. Even as you watch the set and see 3spy die at much lower percents (120ish), its pretty clear he could have survived with better DI.

I jumped the gun a little with MK dying at 120 tho. With evenly skilled players, Sonic and MK generally die at the same percents.

Sonic , much like Wario, is pretty damn heavy AND has a great recovery once mastered.

 

[infiniteV115]

*looks up Sonic's weight*
Huh, I thought Sonic was much lighter. Though I think calling him a middleweight is much more accurate than calling him "pretty damn heavy"

 

[Fuujin]

Even tho Sonic still gets kind of ***** in the matchup, he isn't easy to gimp at all and you basically just have to keep hitting him until he dies. Its pretty rare to hit a careful anything that can kill early with mk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSqZ175yBtk&t=1m30s

Toppest of the top level play. MK died at 98, Sonic died at 163. Even as you watch the set and see 3spy die at much lower percents (120ish), its pretty clear he could have survived with better DI.

I jumped the gun a little with MK dying at 120 tho. With evenly skilled players, Sonic and MK generally die at the same percents.

Sonic , much like Wario, is pretty damn heavy AND has a great recovery once mastered.

I couldn't imagine living that long against MK.

#Lightweightcharacterproblems

Edit: I also forgot to keep in mind Sonic is fast enough to avoid/potentially punish d smash, so MK can't just spam if safely for the kill.

 

[Doc King]

Why is that?

I put her there because I've realized over my tech chasing information and from some experience that it looks like Zelda can actually do some stuff on D3. Like she has the farthest rolls out of D3's d throw. She can do even do this neutral b double jump thing out of D3's d throw. Also how camping don't work.

D3's bair, spot dodge, and swallow are still good though.

 

[Fuujin]

I put her there because I've realized over my tech chasing information and from some experience that it looks like Zelda can actually do some stuff on D3. Like she has the farthest rolls out of D3's d throw. She can do even do this neutral b double jump thing out of D3's d throw. Also how camping don't work.

D3's bair, spot dodge, and swallow are still good though.

I still think it's -2 at best, I just don't think you had very much Zelda match up experience.

 

[Doc King]

I still think it's -2 at best, I just don't think you had very much Zelda match up experience.

I probably didn't since like no one plays Zelda.

+2 for the King sounds reasonable. Some matchups I don't have too much experience with so some might be off.

 

[IhaveSonar]

Jiggz is not bottom tier in terms of actually having kill moves. Fair, as long as it's unstaled, is by far her best killing option. Dash attack is probably her second most reliable move, as it is fairly strong and quick, and a lot of people don't anticipate it. Of course, there's also her excellent gimping capabilities, which can be a contributing factor.


She may not have a lot of reliable tactics, but she does have a lot of good options for punishing lag. Fsmash is good for punishing rolls and landings, and usmash(DACUS) can catch opponents off guard. Even more situational are rests and rollouts- rest is for rare, extreme punishes, and rollout is most useful when punishing landing lag.

Her problem isn't so much that she can't kill; her opponents just kill her first.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Rollout is so lawl.

 

[IhaveSonar]

^It is mostly, but it does have its(albeit situational) uses.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yeah, pretty much. I'd say it's useless on stages with platforms though.

I'd assume it's safe on shield though. Assuming you're playing against Falcon or something. lul

 

[Chuee]

D3 can't regrab ness with a dash grab release.

They have the same cooldown, and Ness releases closer, so if he can do it to Lucas he can do it to ness.

I'd assume it's safe on shield though. Assuming you're playing against Falcon or something. lul

If you face away from Jiggz you can shielgrab it.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

As far as I know, both Lucas and Ness break too far away from Dedede for him to do anything but ftilt.

Or at least this is what a D3 player told me.

*runs off to test*

 

[dean.]

Dtilt Aero, dtilt. Only AFAIK.

Better off throwing them unless they're at 180% or something dumb.

 

[BlueXenon]

Sheik can ftilt lock falco.

A few weeks ago, on a stream, I saw a very good falco vs a very good Sheik and the falco kept chaingrabbing sheik and the sheik did not get one ftilt lock i think. If it's easier for Falco to do the chaingrab than it is for sheik to ftilt lock, then Falco should have a +1.
If you saw that match too and remember the names of the players, please tell me.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

dtilt doesn't even reach. lawl

Is there some sort of special circumstances to it?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

A few weeks ago, on a stream, I saw a very good falco vs a very good Sheik and the falco kept chaingrabbing sheik and the sheik did not get one ftilt lock i think. If it's easier for Falco to do the chaingrab than it is for sheik to ftilt lock, then Falco should have a +1.
If you saw that match too and remember the names of the players, please tell me.

no

tenchars

 

[dean.]

dtilt doesn't even reach. lawl

Is there some sort of special circumstances to it?

mm you're right. Well ftilt's too slow so Dedede has nothing.

 

[Delta-cod]

Lol @ Yoshi being -2 to DDD.

 

[Tesh]

*looks up Sonic's weight*
Huh, I thought Sonic was much lighter. Though I think calling him a middleweight is much more accurate than calling him "pretty damn heavy"

Sonic is "pretty damn heavy" for the same reason GnW lives way longer than Squirtle despite being the same weight.

He has a really good momentum cancel (spindash) that also sends him flying back towards the stage (you can be nearly back to the stage before anyone is ready to confront you really). He weighs less than Mario, Luigi and Ivysaur but will almost always outlive them.

I couldn't imagine living that long against MK.

#Lightweightcharacterproblems

Edit: I also forgot to keep in mind Sonic is fast enough to avoid/potentially punish d smash, so MK can't just spam if safely for the kill.

sonic won't play MK's close range game for long, He will stay mid range where he excels at punishing.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

mm you're right. Well ftilt's too slow so Dedede has nothing.

Well he can dash grab, not sure of the specifics, but the timing is preeeeeetty tight.

Dash grab grounded release (if you buffer your pummels properly, or he'll just air release (not sure if the ground release is forced, I assume it is) releases Lucas a lot closer than a normal grab though.

But imo you'd be better off chaingrabbing unless you're desperate to stale your pummel.

 

[infiniteV115]

Sonic is "pretty damn heavy" for the same reason GnW lives way longer than Squirtle despite being the same weight. moar stuff about momentum cancelling

Ah, I thought you meant literally heavy. Don't think I've ever heard anyone else use the word "heavy" to describe a character's ability to momentum cancel.

 

[phi1ny3]

I prefer the term "Knockback resistance"

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I prefer the term "heavy".

 

[Mr. Johan]

He weighs less than Luigi but will almost always outlive them.

Eh, I think Fair -> Luigi Missile would give Luigi the edhge in living. Side B may have commitment and can't be canceled, but it sure does come out fast for MCing purposes itself.

 

[Judo777]

Sheik has a harder time killing than Samus?
***** please.

Sheik can't kill a jiggly puff for missing a rest until after about 100%..............

Sheik's ftilt lock kills Falco tho, and Falco's cg is only worth about half of Sheik's stock. SO theoretically it is even (even tho the ftilt lock>death on Falco is hard as hell and might actually be impossible)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

*dead* at mentioning rollout and rest as kill moves

People who are bad at Jigglypuff should not comment on Jigglypuff for this very reason.

You could say Jiggs kills earlier than Sonic, just like you could say Squirtle kills earlier than Wario. Thats not nearly the entire picture tho. If Sonic can kill Metaknight at 140 and die at 160, is that worse or better than dying at 100 and killing at 100?

Her killing ability compared to her survivability is still pretty bad.

That is not the same thing as KO ability, though, is it?

Rollout doesn't "get past most options" , I've beaten rollout with spindash so I know the priority isn't anything spectacular. All you have to do is shield it, then jump.

It has infinite charge, so you just start charging at the correct moment and you can usually get a hit in. There is a video which perfectly demonstrates how to use Rollout. I'ma try and find it.

Go punish a halfway decent move on shield with rest consistently. I, like most people here, won't believe it until I see it, and I haven't seen it yet.

You can't punish any decent moves on shield unless you're top/high tier. I didn't say decent moves necessarily, but if someone ****s up and dash attacks your shield or whatever, they're dead at 70%-ish.

 

[da K.I.D.]

this thread is full of people talking about characters they main and comparing them to characters they know nothing about. which results in a ton of misinformation...

sonic is effectively the exact same weight as mario, but because of spindash, vastly outlives him. some people may describe this as heaviness, since some refer to the entire sub-system of how one avoids dying in this game in terms of weight. not saying this is right or wrong, but it should be fairly easy to spot when this is happening and not be confused by it.

if puff misses a rest on shiek, she should probably transform into zelda, and up smash or lightning kick her or something.

Just because it doesnt light you on fire and kill you at 5 anymore, doesnt mean rest is not a viable kill move. it still kills at respectable percents for normal moves.

everyone needs to stop saying thing without backing it up. and ESPECIALLY dont say things about characters that you dont have a solid base of information on. since mains of every character frequent this thread and you WILL be exposed.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Sheik can't kill a jiggly puff for missing a rest until after about 100%..............

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlatantLies

 

[smashkng]

Here is what I think should be D3's matchups:

-3:
-2:
-1:
0:
+1:
+2:
+3:
+4:

I disagree about DDD being +3 against Ike. It's +2 for him IMO, nothing less, nothing more. Ike has the tools to beat DDD and CG and getting gimped are really the only things DDD has on Ike (Ike can avoid getting grabbed better than you think thanks to his massively ranged aerials), though Ike is still harder to gimp than Link and Ganondorf is and Ike can also edge guard DDD pretty well.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Just because it doesnt light you on fire and kill you at 5 anymore, doesnt mean rest is not a viable kill move. it still kills at respectable percents for normal moves.

everyone needs to stop saying thing without backing it up. and ESPECIALLY dont say things about characters that you dont have a solid base of information on. since mains of every character frequent this thread and you WILL be exposed.

This x1000000000

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I disagree about DDD being +3 against Ike. It's +2 for him IMO, nothing less, nothing more. Ike has the tools to beat DDD and CG and getting gimped are really the only things DDD has on Ike (Ike can avoid getting grabbed better than you think thanks to his massively ranged aerials), though Ike is still harder to gimp than Link and Ganondorf is and Ike can also edge guard DDD pretty well.

I am being told that Ike isn't really gimped by Dedede

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Diddy vs G&W should be +3 for Diddy. Luigi, Wario and Peach are all even