Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[Alphicans]

Lol that's so dumb.

 

[smashkng]

I am being told that Ike isn't really gimped by Dedede

I never said that. I just said that Ike's recovery isn't Ganon bad. You recovery doesn't have to be Ganon bad to easily get gimped by DDD.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Diddy vs G&W should be +3 for Diddy. Luigi, Wario and Peach are all even

No it shouldn't. If you want to see the matchup played correctly watch Zac vs Gnes matches, it's obviously Diddy's favor but it's not +3 at all. You have a lot of opinions about a character you obviously assume a lot of things about. When I don't want to sound ignorant i don't make claims i don't know anything about, you should honestly do the same

 

[da K.I.D.]

its pretty clear that Jebus bases ALL of his opinions on personal experience.

Just because you stomp out the mediocre Socal Gwatches doesnt mean you know how the matchup plays out when both players are at a high level.

Unfortunately dude, you DO actually have to play people outside your backyard to have to have a solid conceptualisation of the entire metagame and matchups across the cast.

Part of why I dont make matchup charts for my character unless I really have to.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

No it shouldn't. If you want to see the matchup played correctly watch Zac vs Gnes matches, it's obviously Diddy's favor but it's not +3 at all. You have a lot of opinions about a character you obviously assume a lot of things about. When I don't want to sound ignorant i don't make claims i don't know anything about, you should honestly do the same

In all of the matches they play, Gnes approaches. Can you show me a match where he camps and loses?

 

[SFA Smiley]

I'm pretty sure the best diddy playing against the best GW for a long time on a regular basis knows how to play the matchup.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Soinc Storm, what makes Wolf vs Sonic +2/-2? I... really don't think it's that bad. Sonic may not beat a lot of characters by more than +1, but I doubt he loses to that many by more than -1 either, just by virtue of his character design.

Eh just now got to this.

I'll admit this is mostly bias on my part, and some portions of my post may be woefully wrong, but Wolf just seemed like one of those characters that could play keep up with Sonic's mobility and keep the pressure on at all times, and force confrontations that Wolf would most likely win more often than not. The great range of Fair and Bair, and the low lag of the Bair as well, means Sonic has to be on point with punishing Wolf's main forms of zoning, whether it be from a full hope or a short hop; Wolf's fall speed and the low landing lag of the Bair, as well as the Shine, and sometimes his wavebounce B-reversal Blaster, means that Sonic can't effectively capitalize on Wolf's landings either except out of a hard read. And with Wolf's air speed to complement his zoning tools, Wolf can stay in Sonic's face for a good while, preventing Sonic from having a good amount of breathing room and reset spacing. If Sonic does manage to get in and get some momentum going, all it takes is a late movement for Shine to bust in and break that momentum. Shine's large invincibility frame window can also help snuff Sonic's 3 KO moves out if the two smashes are uncharged, given how the moves have an above-average start up time. And with Wolf being as heavy as he is, Sonic wants to get his KO moves in as quickly and early as possible, otherwise Wolf is simply going to prance around, tossing out Bairs, Fairs, Jabs, ftilts, Blasters, what have you until it's time to kill with a DACUS, a Dsmash, an Fair, a semi-fresh Bair, whatever.

I just feel like Sonic gets completely suffocated by Wolf's ability to pressure and zone, thanks to his airspeed, fallspeed, and the efficiency of his two premier aerials. His maneuverability ensures Wolf can have an easy time controlling the flow of the match and force situations he'll win, and his weight and Shine ensures he isn't going anywhere anytime soon. They're traits that he has that I don't really think a lot of other characters have against Sonic. Sonic can hope for gimping opportunities, but if the Wolf has any sense of DI like Olimars do, the opportunities don't come a plenty.

/awaits for this post to be ripped to pieces.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I'm pretty sure the best diddy playing against the best GW for a long time on a regular basis knows how to play the matchup.

I'm not saying he doesn't know the match up. What I'm saying is just because he plays the match up like that, doesn't mean he is playing the match up correctly.

Example: Ask any Wario and I am pretty sure they will tell you that Glutonny is too aggressive in the Marth match up. Just because someone knows a match up doesn't mean they are playing it correctly.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I'm not saying he doesn't know the match up and just because he plays the match up like that, doesn't mean he is playing the match up correctly.

Example: Ask any Wario and I am pretty sure they will tell you that Glutonny is too aggressive in the Marth match up. Just because someone knows a match up doesn't mean they are playing it correctly.

Valid point. It's not +3 though. We'll agree to disagree.

Edit: or rather, i'll disagree and leave it there. you dont have to agree,

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Fine but I still think it's +3 for Diddy. Even in Diddy's worst stages, the match up doesn't seem to be worse than 50-50 (after you ban RC)

 

[Alphicans]

Ask Gluttonny and he'll tell you every wario in the USA sucks compared to him.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

G&W vs. Diddy is definitely +2.

On another note, Rollout is a bad KO move.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Fine but I still think it's +3 for Diddy. Even in Diddy's worst stages, the match up doesn't seem to be worse than 50-50 (after you ban RC)

+3 means we have like nothing on you, we still beat you in the air and offstage, MK beats us on the ground AND in the air and he doesn't +3 us. And he does better on stages than you do and beats us on our own CPs (somewhat) We still KO you at dumb percents like we do everyone else, Nair beats peanuts, we can hold onto a nana and attack after Up-B. All we need is to get you in the air. It's not that one-sided seriously. It's a bad matchup but it's not +3

I really dont feel like arguing this because it's 1am and I just got off work but you're just feeling your character a bit too much.

 

[Matador]

Jigglypuff KOs easier than Sheik, Sonic, Samus and Mario.

Hitting with a fair at KO percents leads to death against the majority of the cast, its easy to keep fresh if you know what you're doing and the sourspot combos into the sweetspot.

Her fsmash is viable in several match-ups for punishing landings, and her dash attack can catch people off-guard or kill them if you read a roll.

Semi-charged Rollout kills as well, you jump up and charge it as they are falling and you can often get past most of their options with it.

She is amazing at gimping too.

Rest KOs at low percents (for a KO move) and comes out on 1 frame. It KOs regardless of DI as well. Most attacks on shield can be punished by rest with correct SDI and timing, and it can be used if you are close enough to punish something laggy.

Mario reaaally doesn't belong in that "can't kill for ****" category of characters. Main reason being that his kill moves don't completely suck as far as range/disjoints go and the percentages they kill at are decent.

He lacks variety and could REALLY use an aerial KO move, but the two that he DOES have get the job done.

And he can gimp some characters rather reliably. So yeah.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm just going to assume you're right, I know very little about Mario and just assumed his poor-KO ability was a unanimous agreement.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Yeah I was a bit confused on the Mario having difficulty KOing thing. I never really thought he was that bad at KOing. Dsmash is really fast, fsmash is disjointed, and is his upsmash bad? it's pretty fast IIRC but then again I don't remember. If he does have a problem KOing it's probably because he was designed to be an edgeguard character but like they still made him suck and if he goes too far he isn't coming back...

I don't see how they didn't notice these things...

 

[Matador]

Naw, don't get me wrong, he's BAD at killing. I'd sit him a hair higher than Peach as far as general killing goes...maybe.

Dsmash usually doesn't kill till 160+ on midweights unless near the ledge because of how badly DI ***** its KO power.

Usmash is good, but midweights live till 140 with DI. It's got good range (can beat G&W's Dair) and comes out fast enough to be applicable OOS. It's just weaker than it should be.

Fsmash is good as far as range goes and kills at respectable percentages, but it lacks reliable set-ups and is kinda slow (15 frames).

His killing could be much better, but it's not terrible. Just not good.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Only characters who you could really say are terrible at killing would be like... Samus and...

Just Samus lol

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Samus can turn into ZSS though.

Do armor pieces count as Samus' weaponry? They kill at like 90% near the ledge.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

G&W vs. Diddy is definitely +2.

On another note, Rollout is a bad KO move.

FOOLS!

DANCE AND COWER BEFORE ROLLOUT

 

[KuroganeHammer]

lol that rollout kill was pretty amazing.

 

[-LzR-]

Even with all my incredible Puff bias, I don't think Rollout is anything but a super situational move to use like once per day at most. I almost always get punished for it and I use it rarely.
About rest though, people seem to think like it kills at 120% now...
But really against many floaties it's simple to just bait an airdodge or a crappy dair and rest them. It's not like it's impossible to hit with it, the risk reward is just a joke. It's easy to land on noobs with the drillrest that never works on anyone really.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I hit with Rollout semi-often, more than once a day, but... Yeah.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

oh em gee, who are you playing grimmy?

I cannot remember the last time I got hit by Rollout.

In saying that, I haven't played any decent Jigglypuff's ever.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I've hit Apollo with rollout

You should come to SA and have sex with me play brawl with me.

 

[Judo777]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlatantLies

Dude freaking try it. Go into training mode rest with jiggs, then try to kill with Sheik. I'll give you a hint the best move to use is fully charged second hit fsmash (Usmash can't tipper).

I have had a TL live to like 235% against my sheik in tourney before and a kirby live to 226%..........

Also that roll out kill was pro as hell.

 

[Gnes]

Correctly is subjective. Just because I don't camp and aim to time him out like a faget doesn't mean I'm not capable of punishing alot of his options. I had a greater success against vinnie with a aggro style than a campier style, honestly its player specific.

 

[Dre89]

I thought drillrest was a viable KO move, because you could follow the opponent's sdi when you dair them.

 

[-LzR-]

When you drillrest the opponent can hold L and automatically powershield the rest unless they trip. That is kinda why it sucks, but it is a terrific way to get grabs.

 

[infiniteV115]

Do Puff players ever use her DACUS?

 

[BlueXenon]

Which Ike mu is worse, diddykong or metaknight?

 

[smashkng]

MK is FAR more difficult than Diddy is for Ike. The Diddy matchup is actually a quite even MU for Ike, while MK ***** Ike.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

+3 means we have like nothing on you, we still beat you in the air and offstage, MK beats us on the ground AND in the air and he doesn't +3 us. And he does better on stages than you do and beats us on our own CPs (somewhat) We still KO you at dumb percents like we do everyone else, Nair beats peanuts, we can hold onto a nana and attack after Up-B. All we need is to get you in the air. It's not that one-sided seriously. It's a bad matchup but it's not +3

I really dont feel like arguing this because it's 1am and I just got off work but you're just feeling your character a bit too much.

What are you talking about? Pikachu has has +3 on Fox and he doesn't destroy Fox in the air and offstage. Diddy destroys G&W on the ground and he doesn't do to bad against him in the air.

 

[Alphicans]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.

I can't even believe you just compared the two like that. NOT arguing with you.

 

[-LzR-]

Do Puff players ever use her DACUS?

Well I use it. It has it's moments and it's important, but it's kinda rare.
Weak nair or fair -> BDacus can work depending on DI and % and can even be used on kill % on certain conditions.

 

[Kuro~]

Or if u read empty hops and/or know it can beat/trade with a typical SH aerial.

 

[Steam]

What are you talking about? Pikachu has has +3 on Fox and he doesn't destroy Fox in the air and offstage. Diddy destroys G&W on the ground and he doesn't do to bad against him in the air.

OH MY GOOOOOOD

STOP POSTING

PLEASE. JUST DO US ALL A FAVOR

/caps

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Dont worry everyone, Papa Mink's here.

Dude freaking try it. Go into training mode rest with jiggs, then try to kill with Sheik. I'll give you a hint the best move to use is fully charged second hit fsmash (Usmash can't tipper).

I have had a TL live to like 235% against my sheik in tourney before and a kirby live to 226%..........

Also that roll out kill was pro as hell.

Thank you.

I thought drillrest was a viable KO move, because you could follow the opponent's sdi when you dair them.

Drill rest is a very viable kill move, i get at least one rest a set in with it. Not to mention Dair is good for set ups for other kills as well. If you SDI to the left or right (Which most people don't, it's morely theory crafting cause no one knows it's going to hit) we can still rest, grab, DA, Utilt, Jab. Whatever.

Drill is such a good move.

When you drillrest the opponent can hold L and automatically powershield the rest unless they trip. That is kinda why it sucks, but it is a terrific way to get grabs.

This is semi true. There's a certain way they can DI so that the shield comes out, but if they're in the center of the drill it's really not that easy.

Though the Snake Tactic of double Utilt works. Utilt is probably what i kill with the most. It's so easy to set up.

Do Puff players ever use her DACUS?

I use it all the time to punish air dodges to the ground and jumps from the ledge. It's incredibly smooth, especially if you DACUS immediately upon landing from an aerial.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

OH MY GOOOOOOD

STOP POSTING

PLEASE. JUST DO US ALL A FAVOR

/caps

You don't even have an argument and you are just saying this because it's me posting. Why don't you think G&W loses to Diddy that badly?

 

[Steam]

because comparing them that way is stupid. yes Diddy destroys GW on the ground but not in the exact same way pikachu shuts down fox.