Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[da K.I.D.]

i remember that tournament.

Lain, Hylian and Meep i think.

But yea, it was basically the 3 best in the country at the time and he beat all 3 of them.

 

[Juushichi]

Boss beats the top 3 ICs in the country. That's who he beats, Slush.

 

[Kuro~]

American IC=bad always be dropping dem chaingrabs man~

 

[Hylian]

i remember that tournament.

Lain, Hylian and Meep i think.

But yea, it was basically the 3 best in the country at the time and he beat all 3 of them.

I've never played boss in tournament and only went to MLG Dallas where I lost to Tearbear and Trela.

 

[Judo777]

I have a sound argument for why Luigi might do well against IC's. IC's approaching Luigi is pretty convincing. Any matchup where Luigi is being approached sounds pretty outstanding for Luigi.

 

[da K.I.D.]

replace hylian with cheese in that post of mine.

 

[DeLux]

I could see those 3 having problems against Luigi with their style of climbers

I don't know if it's fair to say based on that it's advantage Luigi per say.

It would probably be more a personal matchup issue vs. matchup expertise for those examples imo

 

[Hylian]

Also, every time I've seen lain lose to like lucas or some odd character(except yoshi, because **** yoshi) it's because he dropped a billion grabs -.-.

 

[Yikarur]

Also, every time I've seen lain lose to like lucas or some odd character(except yoshi, because **** yoshi) it's because he dropped a billion grabs -.-.

he lost to Polt for the same reason though.

 

[Hylian]

he lost to Polt for the same reason though.

Not really, polt had him separating a ton when they played and the grabs he got he couldn't really capitalize on. He did drop a couple but meh.

 

[DeLux]

It was a combo of multiple factors.

He dropped a lot of grabs (like on par with what I usually do) AND deviated from the gameplan that was netting him those grabs.

I was mad lol

 

[Poltergust]

It was around the 2nd game that I realized just how he was landing those grabs with his Ice Blocks. Those things have deceptive hit-stun. =P

 

[DeLux]

oh no
Polt caught on to my master game plan. The IC v Yoshi Matchup just got worse for ICs lol

 

[Thebest1pj]

Ics never get outplayed.they just drop grabs

 

[DeLux]

Ics never get outplayed.they just drop grabs

I call this the John of the Ice Climbers

Because that's what it is

Don't drop grabs. Don't John about it.

ICs are bad

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Grim's Problems with the List:
1. Meta Knight does not have any even match-ups.
2. MK/DK should be -3.
3. MK/Puff should be -2.
4. Falco/Puff should be -1.
5. ZSS/Puff should be -1.
6. Diddy/Puff should be +/-0.

Basically all of the low tier MUs are better for Puff than this chart says as well, but I can't be bothered going through all of them because:
a) I don't care about low tier characters
b) There is barely enough data either way

 

[V]

Am I the only one who thinks olimar goes even with marth and mk?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

He's definitely even with Marth. Not sure about MK. Props for addressing such a controversial point but you shouldn't expect to get much agreement. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if that was actually the case though.

 

[V]

I think olimar is honestly 4th/5th best in the game. Hardest character to approach after diddy easily.

Shaya said a new tier list is coming out this week. I think it should go something like;

S: MK
A: Diddy, Falco, Snake/Olimar, Marth
B: ICs, Wario, Pikachu, D3, Lucario, Fox, G&W, ZSS

That's right, fox is b tier, get at me.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

For a character that was designed with such extreme attributes he has a pretty high amount of neutral match-ups though imo. Which is why I think Falco and ICs still have a shot at being better ... but I think Olimar is better than Marth and Wario. 5th or 6th best in my book.

Also very underrated on CP stages.

@SFH

GW/Lucario should imo not be in the same tier as IC, Wario and Fox.

 

[V]

I would be ok if b tier breaks off at fox. That character is way better than people realize. West coast is talking about who we're gonna match up against EC for the crew battle at genesis and we're considering putting TKD against M2K.

Fox just has good options and with shine stall he doesn't have to commit if he doesn't want to and his mobility allows him to punish well. Also having a mobile kill move like usmash is invaluable. His lasers are underrated too. Nobody bothers to PS them since there's no stun so its just free damage.

 

[Yikarur]

West coast is talking about who we're gonna match up against EC for the crew battle at genesis and we're considering putting TKD against M2K.

is that an argument for Fox being good? :D

 

[V]

No that's just an example of when in the right hands fox is capable going head to head with on of the best players in the world. The paragraph below was my reasoning in short for fox being good.

 

[ShadowLink84]

No that's just an example of when in the right hands fox is capable going head to head with on of the best players in the world. The paragraph below was my reasoning in short for fox being good.

That's a case of a good player going up against a good player, not a case of a character being good against another character.

To be honest, I feel waaaaay too much is riding on TKD's success with Fox as reasoning for him being a good character, rather than it necessarily being Fox performing well recently with a variety of player's.

 

[Deleted member]

Wolf has been doing better in terms of overall success.

Hell, look at this past weekend's results.

For Fox, at least there's Zeton that has decent placings.

 

[Conviction]

That's a case of a good player going up against a good player, not a case of a character being good against another character.

To be honest, I feel waaaaay too much is riding on TKD's success with Fox as reasoning for him being a good character, rather than it necessarily being Fox performing well recently with a variety of player's.

? Nakat, Zeton, Trump, MegaFox, TKD?

 

[ShadowLink84]

? Nakat, Zeton, Trump, MegaFox, TKD?

TKD was already mentioned which is rather redundant.
The issue is that much of the hype regarding Fox tends to fall from TKD's results, rather than the others, which was my point albeit poorly stated.

Iirc,isn't TKD also performing the best of all the fox's currently?

 

[Conviction]

Yeah he is but it doesn't mean all the other Foxes don't exist anymore XD

 

[Nefarious B]

How is trevonte never included in these conversations? You guys suck.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

for reals trevonte always get like top 3 at TAG and shiz. not to mention has beaten tkd (i saw it with my own eyes at WGF4). so don't forget about him

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yeah he is but it doesn't mean all the other Foxes don't exist anymore XD

Of course not, but it does say something when other Fox users are not as successful.
Either they are lacking in skill; which I doubt; or Fox just is not as good as people believe him to be.

To be honest, I still think Fox should be lower than he is on the tierlist, and that people are exaggerating his matchup with MK to the umpteenth degree as they did with Snake and Diddy.

How is trevonte never included in these conversations? You guys suck.

He needs more hype.
Hype=better
This is a fact of life, I kid you not.

 

[Tien2500]

Can anyone elaborate on the rationale behind the Trainer/Luigi matchup.

 

[Hylian]

Of course not, but it does say something when other Fox users are not as successful.
Either they are lacking in skill; which I doubt; or Fox just is not as good as people believe him to be.

To be honest, I still think Fox should be lower than he is on the tierlist, and that people are exaggerating his matchup with MK to the umpteenth degree as they did with Snake and Diddy.

So, because other mks don't place like m2k does mk is not as good as people believe him? What kind of logic is that? What do you expect from all fox mains, 1st place in everything? Those players listed place very well in hard regions, Zeton has recently even beaten tyrant and ally in tournament so your points really don't make sense.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

great job BBR, as if we all needed a reminder that MK can trash anything we play.
I'm gonna go cry now.

But seriously, nice job. It looks legit.

 

[Conviction]

Lol hylian beat me to it. I just looked back in this thread and saw his post.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Snake's match-up against MK hasn't really been exaggerated at any point, other than waaaaaay in the beginning where people thought Snake has the advantage.

 

[The_SuperiorTaste]

Snake has a +1 advantage over Diddy? I demand to know the reasoning behind this!

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

watch razer vs adhd at whobo 3 on youtube, and you will see how snake ****'s on diddy kong's soul

 

[NO-IDea]

So, because other mks don't place like m2k does mk is not as good as people believe him? What kind of logic is that? What do you expect from all fox mains, 1st place in everything? Those players listed place very well in hard regions, Zeton has recently even beaten tyrant and ally in tournament so your points really don't make sense.

This just completely beasted your argument ShadowLink. FYI

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Fox is still too low on the tier list if anything