Official Ask Anyone Frame Things Thread

[Bones0]

Dk mains can't be average.

DK is a lot more average on the tier list than the characters most people main.

 

[F A N G]

How many frames is shield drop (how many frames after you let go of shield to when you can move again), and does it differ between any characters?

 

[Strong Badam]

Strong Bad if you could make a table of frame advantage/disadvantage for every move in the game on shield that would help the community so much...also listing every characters major OoS options' data would be great. It seems like the majority of everyone's questions are related to that.

Wayy too much effort lol. My Shieldstun calculator will give you +/- on shield assuming you do the aerial as late as possible. Check SDM's frame data for L-Canceled Landlag

I'd really like to know the frame +/-s of all of Marth's moves. AC nair vs. late nair. The frames between double fair. The frames between fair uair. Late uair/fair. etc.

Perfect low nair is -1. Perfect AC nair (hit frame 21, land frame 25) is -2.
What do you mean by frames between double fair? On shield? There's like ~22 frames where they can do stuff inbetween them on shield. In general there's 27 frames between them. Fair uair is 28 frames. Late uair and fair are both +0.

Also, what are the mechanics of switching between lightshield and hard shield? Can we go to light shield in between pressure? If we can, how many frames do we need to do so? Or do that cooky trick that switches the shields super quickly?

Yes. It takes 2 frames to change your shield's "hardness" (lol). Since it's buffered and there are always holes in shield pressure, unless they do something like shine-grab it will work. Thanks for asking this.

Strong Bad, how much faster is it to double side-B with Falco across like, Dreamland or FD, compared to running across? for clutch edgehogs etc.

The answer to that varies based on where you start but walking with Falco is faster if you have a long enough distance to cross. If you want me to do like from the very edge of it then I can do that.

Is shield DI equivalent to regular smash DI (except it being applied the hitlag on shield)? Is there a difference between shield DI and automatic shield DI? If so, does the c-stick outprioritize the control stick for auto shield DI like it does for ASDI?

No. During normal hitlag you have no traction, but in a shield you have traction, so you go less distance. I also don't think there's ASDI while in shield but I'd have to check. If you're really curious lemme know.

Does it count number of frames where A was held for the first two hits or just for the third one?

All 3, but it disregards the 3rd one if you don't let go of A until after you act out of it (i.e. IASA).

I don't get what you mean by this. Mind re-wording it?

Not sure if what I just said is enough so: If you hold A for the last hit (Gentleman/knee) it does NOT count those frames as having A held, but keeps track of the total still, so holding A and IASAing out of the 3rd hit benefits you in working toward a gentleman. Lemme know if I need to elaborate further.

I'm M2K's old frame data thread he states that Mario/Doctor Mario's down B will only result in a net increase in total altitude (He was talking about who could reach the furthest height from a standing position) if a person could mash the button at an almost inhuman speed. How many times would you have to press B during the tornado in order to do this (have a net increase in altitude if you use tornado before using UpB)?

This depends on when you do them actually. The momentum stacks so the closer you do them the better. If you wait like 10 frames then do a burst of 5 every other frame it's pretty blah compared to doing 5 of them every 4 frames.

I remember reading a list of distances that fox's shine sends every character and it was beeing measured in "feet". what is a foot in melee? im guessing its half the width of puff or something like that..

Home Run Contest

Is there a frame where Donkey Kong doesn't suck?

All frames where Strong Bad is playing him. Never any other time tho.

Yo SB, how many frames does it take for marths up b to go from starting, to the maximum height?(IE he is no longer moving in an upwards direction.)

It's hard to tell but it looks like around frame 17. Magus420 would be able to check. I'm also guessing it'd vary based on how much you tilt it.

is there a way to tell how strong various hitboxes are from looking at the hitbox gifs?

No. Only way to tell is through MasterHand.

what are the exact conditions for when a move with be reversed (i.e. when a knee sends you backwards, not talking about reverse specials)

No idea.

is there a reason why some of g+w's aerials can't be l-cancelled?

? I didn't develop this game. Why would I know?

are there any moves in the game can be auto-cancelled at the start of the move after the hitboxes comeout?

Unless you count Float Canceling, no.

How many frames is shield drop (how many frames after you let go of shield to when you can move again), and does it differ between any characters?

Group A
---14 frames recovery time
---3 characters: Jigglypuff / Peach / Zelda

Group B
---15 frames recovery time
---14 characters: DK / Dr. Mario / Falco / Fox / Ice Climbers / Kirby / Link / Luigi / Mario / Ness / Pichu / Pikachu / Sheik / Young Link

Group C
---16 frames recovery time
---8 characters: Bowser / Captain Falcon / Ganondorf / Marth / Mewtwo / Mr. Game & Watch / Roy / Samus

Group D
---17 frames recovery time
---1 character: Yoshi

Sorry this took so long guys; I was originally going to do GIFs for CrimsonBlur's light shield question and Reneblade's Marth Up-B questions but they didn't really work out. I've also been depressed/lazy/etc. in the past month. :/ I should be better about this thread in the future though.

 

[Bones0]

Is there a list of invincibility frames each character can get from a perfect ledge dash?

 

[Strong Badam]

N o

 

[Bones0]

Make one.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Thanks Strong bad.

I've been experimenting quite a bit with the light shielding stuff. I think its a bit of unexplored territory.

Make one.

No, it will ruin the game.

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, *****es don't know about light shielding. I've started using it like mad.

Not sure how ledgedash frame data would ruin the game though. lmao People are going to ledge dash with the appropriate characters regardless, I'm just curious for a few of my random secondaries; namely, Ness.

 

[Beat!]

I can't visualize Ness getting even a single invincibility frame from a perfect ledge dash. Isn't his DJ waaayyy too slow for that?

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, that's what I figured, but wanted to know for sure. Sometimes it feels like I do it, but it's so hard to tell how early I can air dodge, and getting the DJ as soon as you let go is hard as well.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Fox's ledgedash is honestly ******** enough that people should take it as a given to not be in range of it, ever.

 

[ShroudedOne]

What is the max. frame advantage that Sheik has from fair > jab?

 

[Strong Badam]

What is the max. frame advantage that Sheik has from fair > jab?

Between them? ~18-20ish

 

[Bones0]

How many invincibility does Ness have to work with from a perfect ledge dash?

 

[Geenareeno]

I'm pretty sure this is super common knowledge but... Fastest way to start moving left is dash right one frame then dash left?

 

[Planet Piss]

How many consecutive times can Shiek flip around using her needle charge in a single SH? Full?

Doesn't Ganon's dair send you down/ceiling KO faster than YL's flame, or is it the same/other way around?

Is it possible to halt Marth's falling acceleration enough to perform a dropzone dair? I've tried to accomplish it by ECing a prior dair but I come up short every time.

'S all for now.

 

[Jonas]

I can do Ganon's ledgehop waveland pretty consistently on the right side of the stage, but for reasons I cannot fathom I keep failing to do it on the left side, and it's driving me insane. Is there any difference in ledgehop timing on the two ledges or is it purely psychological? Help me Strong Bad, you who are so wise, before I lose my mind!

 

[Bones0]

I'm pretty sure this is super common knowledge but... Fastest way to start moving left is dash right one frame then dash left?

How would dashing right then left be faster than just dashing left?

I can do Ganon's ledgehop waveland pretty consistently on the right side of the stage, but for reasons I cannot fathom I keep failing to do it on the left side, and it's driving me insane. Is there any difference in ledgehop timing on the two ledges or is it purely psychological? Help me Strong Bad, you who are so wise, before I lose my mind!

I hope you're joking... >_>

 

[Jonas]

I wish I were. It's completely dumb that I know how to ledgehop waveland on the right side of the stage but not on the left D:

 

[Divinokage]

My friend here also has that problem, but I have no idea why.. your brain must be malfunctioning lol.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Between them? ~18-20ish

I should have specified better. I meant on shield.

 

[Jonas]

My friend here also has that problem, but I have no idea why.. your brain must be malfunctioning lol.

It's kinda sad that other people are also suffering from this mental defect.

 

[Divinokage]

I mean an advice I could give is just make sure you properly do the inputs in your head and then to your hands, like that there's no way to fail and eventually it'll become 2nd nature. Like just do it slowly at first to make sure you have it. (Though sometimes it fails randomly but that's kinda normal.)

 

[Xyzz]

The difference is in the way you use the controlstick I guess; might be easier to push (or pull) the control stick for some people. Or you've only learned to do it from one side.
In both cases, the best way should be simply training to do it from the "weak" side (:

 

[Geenareeno]

How would dashing right then left be faster than just dashing left?

Here's why I thought that might be the case. Also I'm going to be assuming some stuff which is where i'll be right or wrong. Characters have dash animations where they start running. During the startup animation you aren't moving at full speed. But if you dash right one frame (start the animation) and then dash left, you only have to do one frame of the animation. If this is wrong i'm going to look super ********, it probably is.

 

[boomrested]

Strong bad, can I rest Fox's upsmash on my shield by shorthopping oos, and if so what is my frame advantage?

 

[Bones0]

Here's why I thought that might be the case. Also I'm going to be assuming some stuff which is where i'll be right or wrong. Characters have dash animations where they start running. During the startup animation you aren't moving at full speed. But if you dash right one frame (start the animation) and then dash left, you only have to do one frame of the animation. If this is wrong i'm going to look super ********, it probably is.

Oh, that's really interesting. Not sure if it holds up because I would guess that dashes start the same frame you input them, but idk, definitely a question worthy of this thread. lol

 

[Bones0]

What is the max. frame advantage that Sheik has from fair > jab?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=309694

 

[ShroudedOne]

Oh thanks. -1....that's still fairly good, lol. No wonder it ***** me.

 

[Bones0]

Was that pun intentional? lol

 

[ShroudedOne]

Yes, it was.

Spoiler

No, it wasn't.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

What happened at 1:27 with the stitch face?

 

[nube]

Shine

Total: 39 (or more)
Hits: 1
Reflects: 4-21 or release+1
Jump cancelable whenever it reflects
Lag upon release: 19
Reflection lag: 19

Peach throws turnip > Fox shines Peach >Fox gets hit by turnip before "reflect-hitbox" starts

 

[leffen]

hey strong bad.

Could you give me some info on the top tiers frame data on their tech rolls? Duration, vulnerability and startup on invincibility from no tech would help greatly!

Thanks

 

[Pi]

Fox
Falco
Jiggs
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Falcon

All

 

[V3ctorMan]

not top tier but Pikachu's tech in place is AMAZING! =D

 

[leffen]

Fox
Falco
Jiggs
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Falcon

All

I dunno what your on but those are normal rolls/ledge rolls.
and they don't really show their vulnerabilities

 

[stelzig]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5896012

according to that pikachu's tech in place is top tier btw

 

[Leviathan741]

I can't name search because my name has a space in it and Bad is only 3 characters and Bionic won't make it searchable.
Ask me frame things here. Anywhere else I post frame things will be because I actually browse those threads.

A good start if you're looking to learn how to do such things yourself is SDM's Frame Data and Frames of Hitlag & Shieldstun Based on Stuff.
Watch out tho cuz SDM's Gentleman data is wrong. It's really:
Total: 32
Hit: 6-12
IASA: 23
Rapid Jabs Start: 13

I'll be posting up the program I use to look at character files within the week too so look out for that.

God you're so bad

 

[-ACE-]

I dunno what your on but those are normal rolls/ledge rolls.
and they don't really show their vulnerabilities

you're *