Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
i don't think english is leffen's first language
by the way, after how many frames upon grabbing a ledge can you drop off of it?
by the way, after how many frames upon grabbing a ledge can you drop off of it?
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Official Ask Anyone Frame Things Thread
- Thread starter Strong Badam
- Start date
mers
Smash Ace
Hope this hasn't been asked before.
So this is a fairly complex question because there are a lot of variables that can affect the answer. I'll try to ask it as specifically as possible to make things easier for anyone trying to test it.
What is the difference between the horizontal distance gained by Falco's side-B and up-B moves? And which angle of up-B gives the most horizontal distance?
The up-B charging animation drifts fairly significantly, I assume based on momentum before the move begins. For the purposes of this question, we can assume Falco has used his second jump to recover toward the stage, and so has the maximum attainable momentum simply jumping toward the stage and holding the control stick in that direction.
Something that I've noticed while playing spacies: their optimal recovery seems intuitively to involve jumping out of hitstun as soon as possible, then falling to a point slightly below the ledge and angling the up-B up toward the stage (not counting Falco's side-B recovery). This might allow them to fall slightly closer to the stage before they begin charging, possibly enhancing their recovery. Is this right, or is there a better way to use up-B?
Also, if you start the up-B while directly level with the ledge, is it better to angle directly at the ledge for maximum horizontal distance, or should you angle slightly up so that you can fall toward the ledge/stage for a short distance?
A lot of questions, I know, but I'd love to hear some analysis of Falco's recovery options. I'm constantly surprised at how small the distance advantage of side-b over up-B is, and I'd love to have it quantified somewhat.
So this is a fairly complex question because there are a lot of variables that can affect the answer. I'll try to ask it as specifically as possible to make things easier for anyone trying to test it.
What is the difference between the horizontal distance gained by Falco's side-B and up-B moves? And which angle of up-B gives the most horizontal distance?
The up-B charging animation drifts fairly significantly, I assume based on momentum before the move begins. For the purposes of this question, we can assume Falco has used his second jump to recover toward the stage, and so has the maximum attainable momentum simply jumping toward the stage and holding the control stick in that direction.
Something that I've noticed while playing spacies: their optimal recovery seems intuitively to involve jumping out of hitstun as soon as possible, then falling to a point slightly below the ledge and angling the up-B up toward the stage (not counting Falco's side-B recovery). This might allow them to fall slightly closer to the stage before they begin charging, possibly enhancing their recovery. Is this right, or is there a better way to use up-B?
Also, if you start the up-B while directly level with the ledge, is it better to angle directly at the ledge for maximum horizontal distance, or should you angle slightly up so that you can fall toward the ledge/stage for a short distance?
A lot of questions, I know, but I'd love to hear some analysis of Falco's recovery options. I'm constantly surprised at how small the distance advantage of side-b over up-B is, and I'd love to have it quantified somewhat.
I think for maximum horizontal distance, the angle of your up+B (0 means horizontal) should be the same as the angle of his fall (0 means vertical), so that the angle between the up+B and the falling is 90 degrees.
This of course assumes that the falling angle is constant, which it probably isn't because of the falling and horizontal accelerations, but I think it's a good enough approximation.
This applies for when the point you want to reach is anywhere below this angle. If it's higher, you just have to aim directly for that point (for maximum distance in that direction).
This of course assumes that the falling angle is constant, which it probably isn't because of the falling and horizontal accelerations, but I think it's a good enough approximation.
This applies for when the point you want to reach is anywhere below this angle. If it's higher, you just have to aim directly for that point (for maximum distance in that direction).
Bones0
Smash Legend
Learned something new.
Thanks, Melee. And AJP (of course the guy with the math avatar would give a math-based answer).
Thanks, Melee. And AJP (of course the guy with the math avatar would give a math-based answer).
Frame Perfect
Smash Journeyman
i ****ing love it when ajp posts
just curious ajp... what is the TAS wr total for btT?
just curious ajp... what is the TAS wr total for btT?
Jonas
Smash Champion
Way too many native English speakers make this mistake too. I've never understood it, because it's seems like it's so easy to avoid the "your/you're" pitfall as long as you put a little thought into your writing
crush
Smash Master
Some people just dont put thought into there writing.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Practice everything, scrubs.
Beat!
Smash Master
I see what you did their.Some people just dont put thought into there writing.
Jonas
Smash Champion
Crush and Beat! least of all.
Btw "not their first language" is a stupid john. Especially for Scandinavians.
Btw "not their first language" is a stupid john. Especially for Scandinavians.
crush
Smash Master
Not they're first language isnt a stupid john.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
So I see the partial deriative of a wave function with respect to time. H-bar, plankks constant over 2 * pi. And the gradient of the wave function squared. What is all that suppose to be used for?
Anyway, how large is the window for grabbing onto the ledge for things like a roll, stand, or attack option from the ledge? When you push off, its instant for anyone to grab it the following frame. But for rolls its longer. Does it last simply the amount of length of time for the move?
Jonas
Smash Champion
Hey man, is it better to shield Falco's laser or just take it like a man? I mean in terms of the amount of lag/stun you get of course, and not the amount of damage.
Blu
Smash Apprentice
Would Yoshi's platform cancel from the ledge be quicker than simply attempting his ledge-dash? @.@
Xyzz
Smash Champion
I've tried something similar sometime ago, without momentum (without TAS or anything though). Rolled towards the ledge and then checked how far what would go (I simply put another character at the end point of my "recovery", used up b held the controlstick in the same direction and hit shield to prevent Falco from walking upon landing). The distances were all pretty much exactly the same as the side b.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Not sure what to tell you, but Falco's side-B goes significantly further than his up-B at any angle...
Bones0
Smash Legend
crush is 10x the poster you will ever be.
He's also 10x the woman I'll ever be
phish-it
Smash Champion
How many frames of invincibility does a character get upon dropping off of an edge?
Bones0
Smash Legend
lol Yeah, technically Varist is right. You only get invincibility frames upon grabbing the ledge or doing a get-up option from the ledge. Dropping off doesn't do anything.
phish-it
Smash Champion
Ok then, how many frames of invincibility do you gain upon grabbing the ledge?
Bones0
Smash Legend
Idk, or else I would have told you. lol
standardtoaster
Tubacabra
Ledgegrabbing Lag: Link (4); Everyone else (8)
Disabled Regrab Period: ALL (29)
Ledgegrab Lag + Regrab Lag: Link (33); Everyone else (37)
Ledge Invincibility: Link (33); Everyone else (37)
From Magus.
Disabled Regrab Period: ALL (29)
Ledgegrab Lag + Regrab Lag: Link (33); Everyone else (37)
Ledge Invincibility: Link (33); Everyone else (37)
From Magus.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
yeah Link's is 4.
i've been slackin on this thread =( i'll see what i can do.
i've been slackin on this thread =( i'll see what i can do.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Why would they make Link get off 4 frames faster than everyone else?
MELEE... Y U SO COMPLICATEZ?!?
MELEE... Y U SO COMPLICATEZ?!?
Yo$himan
No More Free Jumps!
You should just go to this thread and work some magic and see what you come up with.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=317698
Hopefully you're still up for answering questions. ^_^
First of all, I noticed the file "Ledge_frames_info.txt" is missing from SDM's site. Anybody know what that is or have it?
Anyways....
SuperDoodleMan mentions "noninterruptible moves".
Under IASA he says, "You can do an attack, jump, dash, turn, crouch, or shield on the IASA frame. You can interrupt with B moves on the ground only." What is the list of actions for SAF? Where do the IASA frames and SAF frames actually differ (I mean, where are some moves where they're actually different frames)? The moves I've compared them on so far are the same.
First of all, I noticed the file "Ledge_frames_info.txt" is missing from SDM's site. Anybody know what that is or have it?
Anyways....
SuperDoodleMan mentions "noninterruptible moves".
Apparently these are mostly aerial B moves (is it only B moves? and is it true of all of them?). So is the difference between these two terms in the actions that you can cancel with?SDM's Terminology for frames said:
Under IASA he says, "You can do an attack, jump, dash, turn, crouch, or shield on the IASA frame. You can interrupt with B moves on the ground only." What is the list of actions for SAF? Where do the IASA frames and SAF frames actually differ (I mean, where are some moves where they're actually different frames)? The moves I've compared them on so far are the same.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Not sure really what he was trying to say, but you can't use B moves (or grabs) on IASA moves. Like with Marth, his dtilt can be interrupted to cut almost half the lag, but you can't dtilt -> counter for example. You have to jump, walk, dash, or do an A attack.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
^19 frames.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
SAF and IASA only differ if there is no IASA on a move and it has to go through the total animation before you can act.
ugh i'll get around to the other **** eventually
ugh i'll get around to the other **** eventually
Blu
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,560
what do you mean by platform cancel?
Blu
Smash Apprentice
If you time an aerial correctly while DJing through a platform, Yoshi won't perform the aerial and instead land on the platform, cancelling all landing lag (from what I understand); any action can be performed immediately, aside from crouching, DTilt, and phasing through the platform. Normally all of this is done specifically on the three smaller platforms as seen on almost all neutral stages, but it can be done while "sliding" up next to the main stage (drop-down > DJ) from the ledge as well--if you have the right aerial DI held.
Usually this is considered a somewhat pointless move due to the margin for error (which can even cause a loss in a DJ altogether if your opponent is aware) alongside the fact that you aren't as mobile as a sliding WD, but I'm trying to find a decent situation to use it.
NOTE: Cannot be performed on Battlefield whatsoever, but is also made easier on Yoshi's Story.
Usually this is considered a somewhat pointless move due to the margin for error (which can even cause a loss in a DJ altogether if your opponent is aware) alongside the fact that you aren't as mobile as a sliding WD, but I'm trying to find a decent situation to use it.
NOTE: Cannot be performed on Battlefield whatsoever, but is also made easier on Yoshi's Story.