Next Tier List on 5th June - What do you think we have to expect?

[Jigglymaster]

This is why Jigglypuff beats Diddy Kong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc3qY43O5kw

I just played this today too.

 

[DMG]

Jigglypuff does not go 45:55 with MK. Falco and Dedede that sounds reasonable, I think she could have the advantage on Dedede if she ran away a lot.

Also I agree Ganon is worse than Link, and Link does not go even or near even with Snake lol. I could see it MAYBE being only Snake having a 60:40 advantage, but there's no way it's any closer than that.

 

[Suspect]

Jigglypuff does not go 45:55 with MK. Falco and Dedede that sounds reasonable, I think she could have the advantage on Dedede if she ran away a lot.

.

Thats DMG for ya >_>

 

[Patches]

I think ZSS and Diddy will definitely rise. Not going to say why, I'm sure people have before me. But I also think that GaW will rise, he's got over powered Smashes, bucket braking, great combo ability... But I dunno, maybe thats just me wanting that due to me maining him.

 

[mikeHAZE]

I think ZSS and Diddy will definitely rise. Not going to say why, I'm sure people have before me.

That means you don't know why.

 

[Nova9000]

Well all i know is that every1 that i main or second is going down (main ROB, 2nd G dubs, DK and Yoshi). well, maybe not yoshi.

 

[Silver Swordsman]

Its not about how many ATs a character has. Theoretically, No AT is required to win. D3 has tried and true tactics that look beatable, but really aren't in competition. D3 can punish w/ a grab easier than most characters & he has an infinite on 5 chars. His Bair edgeguarding shuts down a lot of characters. I don't know all of the specifics, but D3 is good from what I hear on the back-room.

I know that D3 is good... I play a D3 main quite often, I've learned from experience >.>
However, his metagame (read: not just ATs) hasn't improved AT ALL since the last tier list. His ridiculous bair, his stupid grab game, his broken infinites, his amazing survivability... it was there before, and it's still here now. What tactics have been developed for DDD that make him better than he was before?

DDD is going up because falco is going to drop.

Completely forgot about that lol

 

[Pierce7d]

lmao. I play a pretty proficient Ganon, Mario, and Link. For a while, I was thinking "Wow, Link is pretty underrated." Then I just realized that since I KNEW the match-up, I exploited dumb stuff that stopped working altogether 3 matches later when I fought skilled players. For example, Link can Nair through almost all of Olimar's ground moves (exception, UpB, since it's transcended). Furthermore, FFNair into jab was effective because Oli doesn't have grab armor, and bombs and cross-ups help a lot. However, when the Olimar player realized just how bad Link's mobility was, this gimmick was destroyed by pivot grabbing.

I think all the low tier characters are underrated, but probably don't need to see much shift. Everytime I discover a new piece of tech or something cool/helpful, I still realize that the character in question doesn't have what it takes to move up.

I've been playing Ganon the most lately, kinda put Link down for a while (my Mario is still **** though). I think he's the worst character in the game. I don't play C. Falcon or really know that character in depth, but a single glance at Ganon's frame data showed me that you can RELENTLESSLY attack this character and probably destroy him. If Ganon connects, he hits hard, and his follow-ups and edgeguards are actually decent. Furthermore, he kills pretty early. Still, this doesn't negate the fact that I could probably pick up any random character and destroy Ganon simply by Nairing a lot in his face, and spacing to avoid the frame 8 shield grab (that's two frames slower than average btw.) Ganon MUST employ straight mindgames the entire match. His actual combat stats do not allow him to net hits through pressure or approach.

Mike, yes, MK still ***** Marth. We're just awesome.

Uh, someone said that Roy_R and Neo were the only two Marth's doing stuff, but Shaya destroys Australia with Marth, and Dr. Peepee destroys NC. I place reasonably high in New Jersey, while Mike Haze does the same in Cali, while Neo and Kadaj are doing well in MD/VA and Roy_R is a beast in Texas. Now, the players I just named are those who have quite a few "top 4" placings under their belt, and NJ, MD, VA, TX, and CA are are probably 5 of the strongest areas in the entire world. Marth is doing well. Diddy is doing BETTER, as is MK, Snake, and D3. G&W is NOT as far as I know.

 

[DMG]

G&W is doing relatively bad. You have a few people really representing him, but in tough regions filled with G&W counters everywhere you look. He can't flourish much with MK, Diddy, Snake, and others storming through the scene.

In teams though he's pretty solid.

 

[clowsui]

Pierce!!!! You're forgetting Xisin

 

[Glick]

Jigglypuff deserves her spot, but she does well against MK, DDD, Falco and Diddy.

It just doesn't matter how good her match ups are with the top tiers her glaring weaknesses still overcome any specific match ups. She is not tourny viable by any sense of the word and fighting over a spot on the bottom 5 spots of the tier list is absolutely ********.

Any anybody who knows me knows I play jigglypuff so I'm not just making things up.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Honestly I don't know if many of the low tiers "deserve to go up." I think they're underrated, sure. The difference between a low tier character and high tier character is not as big as it was in melee. Because of the nature of this game, a lot can be done with a low tier character in the hands of a smart player, especially if you play one with good high tier matchups (Jiggly for instance). I do have a special hatred for Jigglypuff players, though; a special spot in hell is reserved for someone who plays a character tho drags matches out to 7 minutes and still loses most of the time anyway (kidding, kidding don't freak out).

If I could choose one, I'd put my vote in for Lucas.

 

[Pierce7d]

Pierce!!!! You're forgetting Xisin

Xisin has a lot of top 4 placings under his belt?

 

[Anth0ny]

Uh, someone said that Roy_R and Neo were the only two Marth's doing stuff, but Shaya destroys Australia with Marth, and Dr. Peepee destroys NC. I place reasonably high in New Jersey, while Mike Haze does the same in Cali, while Neo and Kadaj are doing well in MD/VA and Roy_R is a beast in Texas. Now, the players I just named are those who have quite a few "top 4" placings under their belt, and NJ, MD, VA, TX, and CA are are probably 5 of the strongest areas in the entire world. Marth is doing well. Diddy is doing BETTER, as is MK, Snake, and D3. G&W is NOT as far as I know.

How could I forget the Australian and NC smash scenes

Pierce, you **** considering your region (and the amount of godly MKs that exist there). Kadaj is very good too. But I think whenever you think of pro Marth players, the two that instantly pop into your mind are Roy_R and NEO. However, Mike Haze might be in that discussion as well tbh.

Now let's talk about someone else. All this Marth talk is starting to hurt my heart

Why is Game and Watch dropping so much in placings? Has the metagame really made him that much worse than he was before?

 

[Yonder]

rise: olimar diddy wario mario
fall: luigi snake (but snake is cool)

Lol wut? Luigi and Snake fall? Explain, cause Luigi's rising and Snake is staying put.

 

[M.K]

Honestly I don't know if many of the low tiers "deserve to go up." I think they're underrated, sure. The difference between a low tier character and high tier character is not as big as it was in melee. Because of the nature of this game, a lot can be done with a low tier character in the hands of a smart player, especially if you play one with good high tier matchups (Jiggly for instance). I do have a special hatred for Jigglypuff players, though; a special spot in hell is reserved for someone who plays a character tho drags matches out to 7 minutes and still loses most of the time anyway (kidding, kidding don't freak out).

If I could choose one, I'd put my vote in for Lucas.

LUCAS? You really must be joking, Lucas has terrible tournament results, and whether or not it's true, most of the Smash community views him as a below average contender.

If anything, PT is rising.

 

[Kamikaze*]

fall: snake (but snake is cool)

I laughed so hard.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

LUCAS? You really must be joking, Lucas has terrible tournament results, and whether or not it's true, most of the Smash community views him as a below average contender.

If anything, PT is rising.

Lucas is a mid-tier character IMO. PT maybe too. I really love Squirtle.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

If anything, PT is rising.

Ah-YEAHUZZZZ

 

[M.K]

Ah-YEAHUZZZZ

You know we got you, Reflex. *secret PT-main handshake greeting*.
But seriously, he is.

 

[Asdioh]

SS Tier
Meta Knight 15.00

S Tier
Snake 13.91

A Tier
Falco 13.03
King Dedede 12.94
Mr. Game & Watch 12.50
Marth 12.09
Diddy Kong 11.94

B Tier
Wario 11.47
R.O.B. 11.38
Lucario 10.94
Olimar 10.94

C Tier
Pikachu 10.34
Kirby 10.16
Donkey Kong 10.06
Ice Climbers 9.59

D Tier
Zero Suit Samus 8.88
Toon Link 8.47
Pit 8.44
Peach 8.16
Wolf 7.91

E Tier
Luigi 7.41
Zelda 7.03
Bowser 6.91
Fox 6.66
Sheik 6.44
Ike 5.91

F Tier
Mario 4.56
Lucas 4.50
Ness 4.50
Samus 4.41
Sonic 4.16
Pokémon Trainer 3.94
Yoshi 3.66

G Tier
Link 2.28
Jigglypuff 2.03
Ganondorf 1.88
Captain Falcon 1.63

imo, going down: Falco, G&W, ROB, Kirby, Zelda, Bowser, Ganondorf, Samus

Going up: Wario, Olimar, Ice Climbers, ZSS, Toon Link, Sheik, Fox, Ike, Falcon, Sonic


*shrug*

 

[Dark Volt]

Wario, Diddy, Marth, and Ice Climbers are goin up.
Zelda/Sheik, Sonic goin down.

 

[Kinzer]

^^

Do you by some chance have that backwards?

 

[Suspect]

Sonic going down?

i lol'd

 

[Juggleguy]

Wario and ICs up

Mr. G&W down

I would say Snake's going down in the list, but there really isn't much room for him to drop when you consider the prospect of calling Falco or DDD the second best character in the game.

 

[Red Arremer]

I would say Snake's going down in the list, but there really isn't much room for him to drop when you consider the prospect of calling Falco or DDD the second best character in the game.

Why do you think Snake is going down? Respectively, who do you think will take his place as 2nd?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Why do you think Snake is going down? Respectively, who do you think will take his place as 2nd?

IMO, Diddy Kong could one day take his place.

 

[Red Arremer]

I personally never will see Snake going down anywhere. The Top 3 imo are Meta Knight, Snake and Wario, with Diddy being an incredibly close runner up.

 

[xDD-Master]

I personally never will see Snake going down anywhere. The Top 3 imo are Meta Knight, Snake and Wario, with Diddy being an incredibly close runner up.

So was this a spoiler or a personal opinion

 

[Kinzer]

If I say something on a character or their position on the tier list, I always speak of my personal opinion.

10FalseSBRsarenotallowedtogiveoutanyspoilersortheymightgetintroubleIIRC.

 

[Frown]

10FalseSBRsarenotallowedtogiveoutanyspoilersortheymightgetintroubleIIRC.

SPOILER: Captain Falcon is not second from bottom.

Ankoku is in trouble.

 

[Red Arremer]

So was this a spoiler or a personal opinion

So, was there standing "will be on the upcoming tierlist" or "in my opinion"? Read again.

 

[Kinzer]

Like it really matters who is at the bottom (even though I still want that to be right too), for all that mattered they can both share the same spot and hardly any bawwing would ensue.

Heck, throw Link down there while you're at it, but hey let me just tell you that I don't make the tier lists, so if Link did end up down there don't say I didn't tell you so.

 

[gm jack]

Wario, Diddy, Marth, and Ice Climbers are goin up.
Zelda/Sheik, Sonic goin down.

Zelda going down yes, but Sheik? Her metagame has come on in leaps and bounds, especially as people are finding ways to overcome her lack of killing power. From a grab at the right percentage she has an almost guaranteed kill on MK (and any that an air release can be forced on) provided it is executed properly (GRUSTing). Same goes for her decayed Ftilt to Usmash tippers, on top of her gimping game.

If they introduce the combined character, it should be way higher than the two separately, potentially being on the fringes of viability. Only a lack of players is stopping this being tested.

 

[Kinzer]

You know that that guy was obviously a troll right?

 

[xDD-Master]

So, was there standing "will be on the upcoming tierlist" or "in my opinion"? Read again.

Ah sorry I read over the "imo" x)

 

[Marcbri]

my opinion ( though I don't expect the tier list to fit my opinion at all in some characters):

A tier
1-Metaknight
2-Snake
3-Wario
4-Diddy Kong
5-King Dedede
6-Falco
7-Mr.Game & Watch
8-Olimar

B tier:
9-Marth
10-Ice Climbers
11-Pikachu
12-Kirby
13-Lucario

C tier:
14-R.O.B.
15-Zelda/Sheik ( using both)
16-Donkey Kong
17- Zero suit Samus

D tier
18-Toon Link
19-Peach
20-Pit
21-Fox
22-Wolf

E tier
23-Luigi
24-Sheik
25-Zelda
26-Sonic
27-Bowser

F tier:
28-Yoshi
29-Pokemon trainer
30-Ike
31-Jigglypuff
32-Ness
33-Samus
34-Mario

G(arbage) tier
35-Lucas
36-Link
37-Captain Falcon
38-Ganondorf

 

[xDD-Master]

F tier:
28-Yoshi
29-Pokemon trainer
30-Ike
31-Jigglypuff
32-Ness
33-Samus
34-Mario

G(arbage) tier
35-Lucas
36-Link
37-Captain Falcon
38-Ganondorf

...

I dont think so, especially Mario, he's knows to be good and better than bottom tier and at elast top of low tier.
IMO Lucas is a good character. Nice Floaty Game, nice Dtilt, nice smashes, good spacing tool (Side-B) and a good recovery (If controlled correct + Zap Jump).

 

[Rawnie]

I like your placement of Zelda/Sheik.

 

[AvaricePanda]

1. MK (Duh)
2. Snake (...Duh)
3. D3 (To give a very basic overall summary, his grab game alone does well against like all of the characters, even excluding chaingrabs and infinites. He can gimp and kill with relative ease, while killing him is much harder.)
4. Wario (He only has a couple of matchups that aren't in his favour, the most obvious being Marth. Many of his other matchups are near even or in his favour. He kills well, and his aerial DI allows for his aerials to be safe against a lot of character. Oh, and you can essentially run away and win, because a fart is the ultimate punisher for landing lag; you can bait an attack and essentially punish it with a KO).
5 and 6. Marth or Diddy? Marth has the best matchups around the rest of the cast, but disadvantageous matchups with top tier characters is a huge hinder. Diddy has all around even matchups, none hugely in or against his favor. His worst matchups are arguably Marth and Peach, one of them being not that widely used.

I'm really not sure about the rest. I predict that Jigglypuff, ZSS, and Pikachu will take notable rises, while Falco, Game and Watch, Lucario, R.O.B, and Wolf will move down.