Next Tier List on 5th June - What do you think we have to expect?

[Sukai]

I think Snake will join Meta Knight in the ranks of titans, he's proved his stuff and is still being counted as a viable Meta Knight counterpick.

I'm also hoping Falcon rises, he's shown his moves despite being the absolute worst.

Fingers Crossed for Fox as well, after that horrendous 5 spot drop, here's hoping.

 

[P. O. F.]

Woah woah woah... While I can't speak for the other characters you mentioned, your Kirby info is not very good. 60-40 is not a **** matchup, not to mention many Kirbies, and I believe Percon was one of them, feel that our matchup ratio is wrong and that it's closer to even or perhaps even slightly D3's advantage.

He said "goes even with". You jumped the gun there a bit.

Edit:....I think. He may actually think it's **** XD

I think Kirby is absolutely amazing against DDD.

He can't chain grab him, hes really good in the air VS DDD, he can gimp him better than he can gimp Kirby, he can suck in waddle dees to prevent camping, has decent KO options against him (hammer, bair, dair, fsmash) and is a harder target to hit while DDD is much heavier. I also find that DDD's u tilt is pretty much negated in this match up as well forcing him to rely on bairs...and well, nothing else really....maybe a lucky fair? It's not ****...but Kirby has the advantage IMO.

People should really open their eyes for .2 seconds and think about the top 10 characters in this game and just how many BAD match ups they have compared to that of Marth. I'm not talking about even match ups...I'm talking about match ups where they are at a disadvantage. Also, don't associate tiers with this as well...just the # of bad match ups. Marth is third best in the game with the amount of horrible match ups he has. LOL. Marth is top five. Definitely. He has like two-three bad match ups and two even. At worst, he should be fourth best.


Post above me-I've played a couple of decent Falcons in my time. I thinkhes better than Jigglypuff, and Ganon. Hes third worst IMO. Although, Ganon has more priority. It's pretty much a coin toss between ganon and Falcon for worst.

 

[ZHMT]

A characters position on the tier list is heavily influenced on how good your character does against Metaknight and Snake. Therefore Marth shouldnt be 3rd-4th on the tier list, there is no way he is that good.

Marth loses to Metaknight, Snake, and Dedede, and has difficulties with DK, ROB, Sometimes Wario, Olimar, ZSS and I may be forgetting more.

IMO Marth vs DK is 55:45 DK's favor, same with ROB.

Dont look at the matchup ratios posted on the boards, they occasionally lie. Look at the facts. Metaknight has no bad matchups and Snake has like...1 Matchup thats 40:60. Wario is amazing and Diddy is also another character with no hard counters. Falco's counters are like, Pikachu, which are nowhere as near as common as Metaknight or Snake where he does well in. There is also GnW which is the same situation as Pika.

 

[Chileno4Live]

Marth does lose against Snake and DDD, but this isn't an impossible match-up. DDD cant CG Marth. Unless he baits the UpB, which might be bad for Marth. But Marth has more range and can gimp DDD like no other. I dont know about the snake match-up though, but i don't really have a hard time against Snake. MK is a ***** tho And i agree to Kirby owning DDD.

In the tierlist, i hope Sonic will get up. Seriously, hes underlooked. Fox aswell, he needs to rise up some more. The Fox Boards actually found some usefull ATs with his jab. So yeah. I hope Marth stays where he should be. Can't say much more. IC's is gonna rise like no other...

 

[Browny]

meh

in a game where people will refuse to approach for 7 minutes if they can safely spam, plank, or simply camp for chaingrabs all day I can see why ganon would be very bottom. I just think hes decently better than falcon. With a DA that has god-tier priority and KO's easily at low 100's, some seriously high damaging combos and a very threatening set of aerials, Falcon just cant match that while having many of the same weaknesses, except his ability to avoid being camped to hell

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Captain Falcon has the ZSS problem; characters with stunning projectiles that are not easily avoided (Falco's Lasers, Pit's Arrows, Sheik's Needles, and even sometimes the Fireballs) can be really obnoxious. But he's got the speed to move past them if he plays it right.

 

[Dominic]

not sure why ice climbers is not top 5

 

[Frown]

not sure why ice climbers is not top 5

If people get better at using their grab game, I'm sure they will be top 3 in a couple of years. To a skilled IC player, one grab usually means one stock.

 

[fromundaman]

You know, I was about to apologize for misreading, but I guess that wasn't the case...
You were right though Matador, if P.O.F. followed the normal rules of grammar, I would have been wrong.

I think Kirby is absolutely amazing against DDD.

He can't chain grab him, hes really good in the air VS DDD, he can gimp him better than he can gimp Kirby, he can suck in waddle dees to prevent camping, has decent KO options against him (hammer, bair, dair, fsmash) and is a harder target to hit while DDD is much heavier. I also find that DDD's u tilt is pretty much negated in this match up as well forcing him to rely on bairs...and well, nothing else really....maybe a lucky fair? It's not ****...but Kirby has the advantage IMO.

People should really open their eyes for .2 seconds and think about the top 10 characters in this game and just how many BAD match ups they have compared to that of Marth. I'm not talking about even match ups...I'm talking about match ups where they are at a disadvantage. Also, don't associate tiers with this as well...just the # of bad match ups. Marth is third best in the game with the amount of horrible match ups he has. LOL. Marth is top five. Definitely. He has like two-three bad match ups and two even. At worst, he should be fourth best.


Post above me-I've played a couple of decent Falcons in my time. I thinkhes better than Jigglypuff, and Ganon. Hes third worst IMO. Although, Ganon has more priority. It's pretty much a coin toss between ganon and Falcon for worst.

Oh boy.... That he can't be CGed is pretty much what made our old ratio so high, because at the time (long long ago) everyone was so hung up over the CG we automatically thought we had a great matchup. Wrong. Especially since D3 does have Dthrow followups on us regardless unless we tech it, and even then, he can techchase. On top of that, his Bthrow does like 8 gajillion damage (Obvious exaggeration, but it's the strongest throw, damagewise, in the game.), and, if I remember correctly, can kill.

Also, swallowing Waddle Dees? WTF are you talking about? That's BEGGING for a smash to the face.swallowing Dees/items has so much lag for Kirby. He can't just swallow like Wario for some reason, he has to take his time, chew a dozen times, count to twenty, move to the other ch-OH **** FORWARD SMASH IN THE FACE!

You're right on the gimping argument, though D3's Bair can cause trouble for a recovering Kirby if the D3 is good.

Kirby's not much harder to hit though... We're actually a fairly slow moving character, though we can somewhat mask that with good mobility and decent range. Also, D3's weight works for him. It allows him to survive MUCH longer than Kirby.

Also, D3's Utilt negated in this matchup?!? No wonder you think it's so bad for D3. One of Kirby's biggest flaws IMO is how fast he dies off the top. Now D3's Utilt is a move with lots of range, a ****ton of priority, and it kills off the top really early.

*Sigh* It is painfully obvious you don't know D3 well enough... Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying D3 beats Kirby (I honestly find it ever so slightly in Kirby's favor, but I haven't played really good D3s), but I am saying that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about... again.

Maybe you should just take two seconds and actually take the time to research what you're arguing before spouting random nonsense.


Finally, supposing your last paragraph is true, how can CF be 3rd worst, but tied with Ganon for worst?

 

[doom dragon 105]

God Tier



Top Tier



High







High









Middle








:shiek:



Low












Bottom





Yeah those are my 2 cents

This is were Ike should have been in the first place, he is pretty bad and as an Ike main I feel very limited to my options.

 

[Morrigan]

Now that I see it, Brawl has a **** ton of characters No wonder it's balanced like crap.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Imo, Falco is 5th. Just an all around solid character, with no clheavy counters, except possibly Pikachu, who is super uncommon.

Spots 6-10 are still debatable. You have oddball characters like Olimar and Pikachu that could potentially squeeze into those spots.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Doom, Ike, Bowser and Zelda are above Ness, Yoshi, Sonic and Mario without a doubt. No contest at all. (except for Sonic if tournament results start counting for more). Ike belongs where he is currently. His rank # should never change, it's perfect. If you want to change his rank # from mid tier to low tier, fine. But the number of characters below him should be the exact same as it is now. Bowser is mid tier without a doubt and just falls in the heavily underused category. Zelda I don't know as much about, but as far as I can tell she's still mid-tier as well. I see no reason to drop her more then a few spots, same with Bowser.

As for Ike's options, you quite frankly don't need that many. Jab is amazing. Fair is amazing for spacing. Nair is amazing for zoning. It's why Ike only gets ***** by three characters despite his speed, and even then they are still winnable match-ups. They just require a heck of a lot of work, and basically perfection on Ike's side of things.

 

[Jigglymaster]

I want to know why people still think Link is better than Jigglypuff.

Jigglypuff can do many things better than Link. The only thing is that Jigglypuff dosn't have projectiles. Jigglypuff has better recovery, better kill moves, and can gimp people. If Jigglypuff dosn't surpass anyone else she better surpass Link. Link is debativly 3rd worst to being the worst in the game.

 

[fromundaman]

While I agree that Jiggs is better than Link, Jigglymaster, your comparison is wrong. There are quite a few things each character can do that the other can't.

For example, Link has a lot of disjoints, good kill moves, much better range and power, a GREAT Zair, and projectiles.
However, Jiggly has better combos, a much better air game, better air speed, a far superior grab game, pound, and a recovery.

 

[MrsSaturnandWatch]

I hope Ness doesn't get lowered : (
That would make me really sad

 

[zhao_guang]

I think Luigi will rise one or two spots, not a whole lot though. Definitely won't go down. :D

 

[hippiedude92]

I think Luigi will rise one or two spots, not a whole lot though. Definitely won't go down. :D

He'll go down due to you going to scrubby a$$ tourneys that don't mean anything to his placement what so ever and including hippie's last place, placing with Luigi.


Get @ me nyukkah.

 

[P. O. F.]

I want to know why people still think Link is better than Jigglypuff.

Jigglypuff can do many things better than Link. The only thing is that Jigglypuff dosn't have projectiles. Jigglypuff has better recovery, better kill moves, and can gimp people. If Jigglypuff dosn't surpass anyone else she better surpass Link. Link is debativly 3rd worst to being the worst in the game.

Links recovery is REALLY bad....agreed but Jigglypuff really isn't much of a great character herself. IMO, jigglypuff has much more potential than Link but Link is definitely better. He has a better approach game, decent grab game, three projectiles (and one of the most unique in the game drawing the opponent toward you.) DECENT KO moves and a good vertical aerial game. Jigglypuff has side b, fair, bair...and everything else is meh. Her smashes can be seen from a mile away and projectiles stop her roll out.

My friend secondaries jigs (kind of a joke, lol) but has grown to be really good with her and utilizies her grab game to her utmost potential. Shes underrated, but nothing special.

I think Luigi will rise one or two spots, not a whole lot though. Definitely won't go down. :D

I agree with this. I just don't see him progressing much further.

 

[P. O. F.]

I want to know why people still think Link is better than Jigglypuff.

Jigglypuff can do many things better than Link. The only thing is that Jigglypuff dosn't have projectiles. Jigglypuff has better recovery, better kill moves, and can gimp people. If Jigglypuff dosn't surpass anyone else she better surpass Link. Link is debativly 3rd worst to being the worst in the game.

Links recovery is REALLY bad....agreed but Jigglypuff really isn't much of a great character herself. IMO, jigglypuff has much more potential than Link but Link is definitely better. He has a better approach game, decent grab game, three projectiles (and one of the most unique in the game drawing the opponent toward you.) DECENT KO moves and a good vertical aerial game. Jigglypuff has side b, fair, bair...and everything else is meh. Her smashes can be seen from a mile away and projectiles stop her roll out.

My friend secondaries jigs (kind of a joke, lol) but has grown to be really good with her and utilizies her grab game to her utmost potential. Shes underrated, but nothing special.

Then again, what character is NOT UNDERRATED? haha.

I think Luigi will rise one or two spots, not a whole lot though. Definitely won't go down. :D

I agree with this. I just don't see him progressing much further.



Sorry about double post, stupid firefox.

You know, I was about to apologize for misreading, but I guess that wasn't the case...
You were right though Matador, if P.O.F. followed the normal rules of grammar, I would have been wrong.



Oh boy.... That he can't be CGed is pretty much what made our old ratio so high, because at the time (long long ago) everyone was so hung up over the CG we automatically thought we had a great matchup. Wrong. Especially since D3 does have Dthrow followups on us regardless unless we tech it, and even then, he can techchase. On top of that, his Bthrow does like 8 gajillion damage (Obvious exaggeration, but it's the strongest throw, damagewise, in the game.), and, if I remember correctly, can kill.

Also, swallowing Waddle Dees? WTF are you talking about? That's BEGGING for a smash to the face.swallowing Dees/items has so much lag for Kirby. He can't just swallow like Wario for some reason, he has to take his time, chew a dozen times, count to twenty, move to the other ch-OH **** FORWARD SMASH IN THE FACE!

You're right on the gimping argument, though D3's Bair can cause trouble for a recovering Kirby if the D3 is good.

Kirby's not much harder to hit though... We're actually a fairly slow moving character, though we can somewhat mask that with good mobility and decent range. Also, D3's weight works for him. It allows him to survive MUCH longer than Kirby.

Also, D3's Utilt negated in this matchup?!? No wonder you think it's so bad for D3. One of Kirby's biggest flaws IMO is how fast he dies off the top. Now D3's Utilt is a move with lots of range, a ****ton of priority, and it kills off the top really early.

*Sigh* It is painfully obvious you don't know D3 well enough... Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying D3 beats Kirby (I honestly find it ever so slightly in Kirby's favor, but I haven't played really good D3s), but I am saying that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about... again.

Maybe you should just take two seconds and actually take the time to research what you're arguing before spouting random nonsense.


Finally, supposing your last paragraph is true, how can CF be 3rd worst, but tied with Ganon for worst?

Sorry, forgot to respond to you.

Meh, I debate the last three characters all the time. I really don't know who is worst. You can mind game the crap out of people with Falcon by running around and away from attacks and then punishing (what brawl is...in your face camping.) but Ganon has much more priority and chance of winning a fight.

lets start debating that people? Who is the worst in the game? Falcon? Jigs? or Ganon?

Go!

and yeah, people need to STFU about the ROB VS Marth even crap. That's not true. Stop saying it. ROB has the advantage. He ***** him in the air, outranges his tilts with his own w more priority, gimps him easily, can outcamp him, and dies at a higher % on average. Whoever thinks the matchup is even is ********. The only thing marth has on him is his uair.

 

[zhao_guang]

He'll go down due to you going to scrubby a$$ tourneys that don't mean anything to his placement what so ever and including hippie's last place, placing with Luigi.


Get @ me nyukkah.

Get better? LOL.

 

[Jigglymaster]

It should be Falcon vs Link vs Ganon not Falcon vs Jiggs vs Ganon for the worst >__>

Jigglypuff dosn't belong in bottom tier IMO.

 

[fromundaman]

She belongs in low tier, probably the bottom end of that, but not sure she's in bottom. Hell, I'd say she's probably a bit better than Samus too.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Obviously right now I know Jigglypuffhas no chance to ever be in the E tier.

I myself think shes mid/top of F tier. But I know its going to take little steps to get there so I'm just expecting to see Jigglypuff get into f tier, at least beat link too.

 

[mikeHAZE]

Marth does lose against Snake and DDD, but this isn't an impossible match-up. DDD cant CG Marth. Unless he baits the UpB, which might be bad for Marth.

**** i wish i lived in your state.

Marth sucks.

Do you guys still think mk ***** marth?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Of course mk ***** Marth.

There is nothing to think about.

 

[chandy]

IMO I'd rather have Link's recovery than Jigg's light weight. With good DI Link can save himself from dying wheras it's much more difficult for Jigglypuff. Jigglypuff sucks everywhere apart from in the air. Link has an ok ground game and aerial game. Link has a lot more range. Link has more projectiles. It's for these reasons I feel Link should be moving up not down... I know Jiggz is absolutely amazing in the air and has a good gimp game but it's not that easy to get most characters. Plus getting hit in the air puts her in a dangerous position of being killed. But to be honest neither Jiggz or Link has a chance of going below falcon and ganon. So neither are in competition for WORST character in the game

 

[fromundaman]

But Link has the worst recovery in this game, as well as terrible aerial mobility. If it weren't for those two things, he'd probably be mid tier or so, but the way he is now, those are just too great of flaws.

 

[Morrigan]

IMO I'd rather have Link's recovery than Jigg's light weight. With good DI Link can save himself from dying wheras it's much more difficult for Jigglypuff. Jigglypuff sucks everywhere apart from in the air. Link has an ok ground game and aerial game. Link has a lot more range. Link has more projectiles. It's for these reasons I feel Link should be moving up not down... I know Jiggz is absolutely amazing in the air and has a good gimp game but it's not that easy to get most characters. Plus getting hit in the air puts her in a dangerous position of being killed. But to be honest neither Jiggz or Link has a chance of going below falcon and ganon. So neither are in competition for WORST character in the game

You'd be surprised. Bottom characters are constantly struggling between each other, their tourney results are a big factor for them if you ask me.

 

[Jigglymaster]

IMO I'd rather have Link's recovery than Jigg's light weight. With good DI Link can save himself from dying wheras it's much more difficult for Jigglypuff. Jigglypuff sucks everywhere apart from in the air. Link has an ok ground game and aerial game. Link has a lot more range. Link has more projectiles. It's for these reasons I feel Link should be moving up not down... I know Jiggz is absolutely amazing in the air and has a good gimp game but it's not that easy to get most characters. Plus getting hit in the air puts her in a dangerous position of being killed. But to be honest neither Jiggz or Link has a chance of going below falcon and ganon. So neither are in competition for WORST character in the game

Which top/high tiers does link have a chance against?

One of Jigglypuffs winning matchups is against Diddy Kong.

Jigglypuff also is no worse than 45-55 against MK, DDD, and Falco.

Last time I checked Link gets *** ***** by MK and DDD.

 

[Red Arremer]

IMO I'd rather have Link's recovery than Jigg's light weight.

I'd rather have EVERYTHING but Link's recovery. You say that because you're a Link main, though. Jigglypuff may be light, but light weight doesn't stop a character from being better than another one. Example? Meta Knight, for instance, on of the lightest characters in the game.

With good DI Link can save himself from dying wheras it's much more difficult for Jigglypuff.

Vertically, yes, perhaps. Horizontally? Lawls~

Jigglypuff sucks everywhere apart from in the air.

Nothing new.

Link has an ok ground game and aerial game.

Link has an aerial game? I though he already had trouble staying there with his fall speed and whatnot. I doubt his "airgame" is worth a mention, really.

Link has more projectiles.

So has Samus, yet she is a crappy character, as we all know.

It's for these reasons I feel Link should be moving up not down...

Wait... What? Link should go UP? lol.

I know Jiggz is absolutely amazing in the air and has a good gimp game but it's not that easy to get most characters. Plus getting hit in the air puts her in a dangerous position of being killed.

lol, learn about Jigglypuff before posting about her, seriously.

But to be honest neither Jiggz or Link has a chance of going below falcon and ganon. So neither are in competition for WORST character in the game

I think all 4 Bottom Tier characters are pretty much interchangeable, although I personally think that Ganon is the absolute worst.

 

[chandy]

I just got owned by 4 pretty hot posts
AWZUUMMMMMM :D
Ok you win lol coz I can't be bothered trying to argue back to all that text :S
You guyz don't know me I'm kinda optimistic for link

 

[zhao_guang]

Actually, I need to figure out how canadian Luigis are doing. I've heard how Boss and Biglou are doing great in the EC of the USA, but I haven't heard of our canadian ones like WiGi and KC. :/

 

[Matador]

Which top/high tiers does link have a chance against?

One of Jigglypuffs winning matchups is against Diddy Kong.

Jigglypuff also is no worse than 45-55 against MK, DDD, and Falco.

Last time I checked Link gets *** ***** by MK and DDD.

Jiggz has a 45:55 on MK and Falco? These are mutually agreed upon ratios?

Link does okay vs Snake IIRC.

 

[Suspect]

I wouldnt be surprised if kirby goes down a lil and i actually hope weegee goes down just so i can use him in low tier tournies...lol

but the tier list doesnt affect me at all, im still gonna use who i use

 

[Chis]

Which top/high tiers does link have a chance against?

Near even with Snake iirc

 

[Morrigan]

Is that true? LOL

 

[Matador]

Is that true? LOL

Snake vs Link is just one of those matchups where Link's character disadvantages don't matter much and his advantages shine.

 

[Kamikaze*]

Near even with Snake iirc

Lol wut

Since when?

 

[Red Arremer]

Near even with Snake iirc

Anyone else? ...no? That doesn't come off as a surprise, then.