Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[Alex Strife]

I could write a massive post about it. I won't bother because no one would read it. Too many people in this thread at the moment for anything to be taken seriously.

I'd read it.



also just because some do not understand you does not mean you cannot convince them .... and if u cant u stated your opinion I think that is most important.

 

[-Ran]

Can you tell me more about that policy, please?

Meta Knight was only allowed to be talked about in Social Groups. Any thread that was created about him would instantly be closed with the individuals inside of it warned. The BBR wasn't allowed to speak about MK either after the final poll. Even whenever we constructed our own poll, the Smash Senate [moderators/admins] made it so that no discussion could take place, and informed us that we couldn't provide any information in the thread.

Smashboards wanted Meta Knight to be invisible. There were always periods of movements where players would gain momentum, but it would ultimately be shut down by the administration of the site.

 

[Moritaka]

Meta Knight was only allowed to be talked about in Social Groups. Any thread that was created about him would instantly be closed with the individuals inside of it warned. The BBR wasn't allowed to speak about MK either after the final poll. Even whenever we constructed our own poll, the Smash Senate [moderators/admins] made it so that no discussion could take place, and informed us that we couldn't provide any information in the thread.

Smashboards wanted Meta Knight to be invisible.

So that is, hmm, interesting...kind of a censorship, isn't it?

 

[-Ran]

Pretty much. I never agreed with it, and fought against the concept of it at every point I could.

 

[Rabbi Nevins]

how many mk mains were part of this voting

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Pretty much. I never agreed with it, and fought against the concept of it at every point I could.

And im glad you did. No site should be playing this type of shadey crap. Though it does happen.

 

[popsofctown]

Ehh, there were definitely more than a few MK "cinderela stories" (shoutouts to who coined this term lol)

It was me, actually.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

how many mk mains were part of this voting

considering the vote was 14-0 I'd say zero.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I could write a massive post about it. I won't bother because no one would read it. Too many people in this thread at the moment for anything to be taken seriously.

I actually wrote a huge post about it a while ago that didnt get much attention so I dont blame you.

Also, my post seems confrontational but I didnt mean it that way. America has absolutely made MK into a monster, a serious problem Europe doesnt have and is in no danger of ever having. You have two ridiculously good players that travel around Europe and win a lot of things and they both happen to play the same guy. That isnt exactly the same problem America is having with MK. It has very little to do with the fact that MK is broken (although I think you could make an argument for that based on shuttle loop alone) but more to do with the fact that he's so pervasive that the game is just not fun to play or watch anymore for many people.

The short answer is that MK is better than the rest of the cast and has a few arguably broken attributes that can be worked around with amazing play. Americans want to win, intrinsically and culturally, so we picked him up en masse, drove his metagame to a level so far above other characters that it is very hard for any other character to compete with it, and now we've had to shoot our Frankenstein in the head before he scares any more children.

My belief is that for this reason (which I DO believe to be valid), the rules we've had to create for him, and an overwhelming desire by the players of this game to ban him, it was a reasonable thing to do and I support it. I would have also supported a decision not to ban him, but you need to be more sensitive to the situation in the US instead of just calling em a bunch of scrubs.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Wow, he finally got banned!! What a relief!

 

[zmx]

This is incorrect.

The top level of play was consistent with the poll data.

I think we have a different understanding of what is top level play here. I'm talking about as in the top 5-8 best players on the boards period. Not the top 50. Because that's not really top now is it? And can you prove who really voted in that poll?

Either way didn't you guys make pokemon stadium 2 legal as well? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? I mean it's such a ridiculous stage to make legal for many reasons. You might as well make Hyrule legal.

I agree with the post about US player mentality. While Euros and the Japanese learned to deal with MK, instead of admitting they were bad in that regard and trying to improve, Americans went "It's not my fault. The character is obviously broken. I can't be bad. Btw I have a huge ego."

 

[Exce L]

This is incorrect.

The top level of play was consistent with the poll data.

Since it's all over with now, will we ever be able to see who voted what?

 

[Player-1]

The amount of MK mains is pretty irrelevant considering there's a lot of people who main MK just to prove how broken he is or just because he is the best character in the game, but still want him banned.

 

[Juushichi]

I actually wrote a huge post about it a while ago that didnt get much attention so I dont blame you.

Also, my post seems confrontational but I didnt mean it that way. America has absolutely made MK into a monster, a serious problem Europe doesnt have and is in no danger of ever having. You have two ridiculously good players that travel around Europe and win a lot of things and they both happen to play the same guy. That isnt exactly the same problem America is having with MK. It has very little to do with the fact that MK is broken (although I think you could make an argument for that based on shuttle loop alone) but more to do with the fact that he's so pervasive that the game is just not fun to play or watch anymore for many people.

The short answer is that MK is better than the rest of the cast and has a few arguably broken attributes that can be worked around with amazing play. Americans want to win, intrinsically and culturally, so we picked him up en masse, drove his metagame to a level so far above other characters that it is very hard for any other character to compete with it, and now we've had to shoot our Frankenstein in the head before he scares any more children.

This is a very good point and tbqh, I wouldn't mind if you posted your opinion about this either King Funk. Maybe put it in the blogs or something.

 

[OmegaXXII]

So, with this in mind, would Diddy Kong rise up to the throne as being the best?

 

[Exce L]

I actually wrote a huge post about it a while ago that didnt get much attention so I dont blame you.

Also, my post seems confrontational but I didnt mean it that way. America has absolutely made MK into a monster, a serious problem Europe doesnt have and is in no danger of ever having. You have two ridiculously good players that travel around Europe and win a lot of things and they both happen to play the same guy. That isnt exactly the same problem America is having with MK. It has very little to do with the fact that MK is broken (although I think you could make an argument for that based on shuttle loop alone) but more to do with the fact that he's so pervasive that the game is just not fun to play or watch anymore for many people.

The short answer is that MK is better than the rest of the cast and has a few arguably broken attributes that can be worked around with amazing play. Americans want to win, intrinsically and culturally, so we picked him up en masse, drove his metagame to a level so far above other characters that it is very hard for any other character to compete with it, and now we've had to shoot our Frankenstein in the head before he scares any more children.

Very good post, regardless of whether you're pro-ban or not.

 

[King Funk]

To sum it up really really short, I think Americans in general when it comes to competitive gaming have always followed bandwagons way too hard. I'm not going to associate it to a "play to win" mentality or anything. Any player, no matter where he lives, would play to win when it comes to any competitive environment. HOWEVER, for Brawl, especially in this past year in the USA, I see players drop their mains for MK because they are delusional and think it will improve their placings. And when a ****load of people do that, you can't be surprised it goes out of control.

Bandwagons, bandwagons, bandwagons. That's all there is to it.

 

[leffen]

Man no offense King funk, but your post are freaking terrible atm, you essentially explain none of your arguments and just agree to every single anti-ban post that is posted >_>.

EDIT: How are they delusional for thinking a better character will improve their chance of winning? Cold hard results PROVE that this is the case.
Just because someone picks him up because of a bandwagon doesnt mean that it is bad for them

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I think we have a different understanding of what is top level play here. I'm talking about as in the top 5-8 best players on the boards period. Not the top 50. Because that's not really top now is it?

Either way didn't you guys make pokemon stadium 2 legal as well? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? I mean it's such a ridiculous stage to make legal for many reasons. You might as well make Hyrule legal.

I agree with the post about US player mentality. While Euros and the Japanese learned to deal with MK, instead of admitting they were bad in that regard and trying to improve, Americans went "It's not my fault. The character is obviously broken. I can't be bad. Btw I have a huge ego."

*sigh* I'd wish you'd not lump all Americans together like this. I'd also wish you wouldn't bring up Euro and Japan like this either. If the Japanese or Europeans came to more American tournies instead of maybe one a year (if that) then I think there mind set would be a bit different.

 

[King Funk]

Oh yes, I'm definitely interested in going further on my opinions.

Might do a blog post soon.

 

[Bizkit047]

Either way didn't you guys make pokemon stadium 2 legal as well? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? I mean it's such a ridiculous stage to make legal for many reasons. You might as well make Hyrule legal.

The fact that you're relating PS2 to Hyrule and also comparing it to an MK ban is probably the most ridiculous thing I've read in this thread so far. I'm pretty sure you just forfeited any kind of validity to your arguments now.

 

[Alex Strife]

*sigh* I'd wish you'd not lump all Americans together like this. I'd also wish you wouldn't bring up Euro and Japan like this either. If the Japanese or Europeans came to more American tournies instead of maybe one a year (if that) then I think there mind set would be a bit different.

That is the thing who do you know how people will react. We can only speculate what will happen but not the actual things that will happen. That is why I try to stray away from that.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

To sum it up really really short, I think Americans in general when it comes to competitive gaming have always followed bandwagons way too hard. I'm not going to associate it to a "play to win" mentality or anything. Any player, no matter where he lives, would play to win when it comes to any competitive environment. HOWEVER, for Brawl, especially in this past year in the USA, I see players drop their mains for MK because they are delusional and think it will improve their placings. And when a ****load of people do that, you can't be surprised it goes out of control.

Bandwagons, bandwagons, bandwagons. That's all there is to it.

Can you plz stop taking shots at America, I really don't see how America is to blame for this.

 

[Volt_Storm_7]

Not that this affects me, being in japan, but I believe your attendance will be low for tournies. Or at least that's the worst disadvantage of doing this.

 

[Moritaka]

Oh yes, I'm definitely interested in going further on my opinions.

Might do a blog post soon.

Please. Could it be interesting

 

[King Funk]

Man no offense King funk, but your post are freaking terrible atm, you essentially explain none of your arguments and just agree to every single anti-ban post that is posted >_>.

This thread is too fast paced for long and well developed arguments.

 

[Battousai780]

Except that I will still win with my other characters? Better than you. :]

 

[popsofctown]

HOWEVER, for Brawl, especially in this past year in the USA, I see players drop their mains for MK because they are delusional and think it will improve their placings.

No, actually that's exactly what happens.

John#s chart didn't report 15% of the players making 45% of the money because people who switched to MK were still losing.

 

[tarextherex]

Imo Brinstar+Rainbow should've been banned before MK. Honestly most of MK's dominance is due to those stages, I swear many close sets vs top MKs woulda been taken if those stages weren't legal. Yes some other characters such as bottom tiers can benefit of these, but if the stage is so ******** that it makes you drop a game to a bottom tier in a matchup that you clearly ahve the advantage/know, that's the proof of how dumb the stage is. No offense to low tier mainers though, if you have the dedication of playing a bad character anyway, you should be good enough with him to go toe to toe with other characters in neutral stages.

The reason to ban him isn't because he's really that broken, it's just that he's overused. He's beatable MU wise and dosen't really break any character's viability(D3 and Ike are still bad without him and get ***** by like 6 other characters besides MK, same for other chars, they would still have problems.) While the community clearly wanted the game to be more diverse and not being centered to MK, banning stages would be a more conciliating solution than banning a character. Basically, banning him just proved the «laziness» of the community since people were «tired» of trying to work around him. I don't think this is the most «competitive» solution since as I mentionned earlier, banning stages is more conciliating in a ruleset, so let's see if Apex actually has a diverse top 8.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I actually wrote a huge post about it a while ago that didnt get much attention so I dont blame you.

Also, my post seems confrontational but I didnt mean it that way. America has absolutely made MK into a monster, a serious problem Europe doesnt have and is in no danger of ever having. You have two ridiculously good players that travel around Europe and win a lot of things and they both happen to play the same guy. That isnt exactly the same problem America is having with MK. It has very little to do with the fact that MK is broken (although I think you could make an argument for that based on shuttle loop alone) but more to do with the fact that he's so pervasive that the game is just not fun to play or watch anymore for many people.

The short answer is that MK is better than the rest of the cast and has a few arguably broken attributes that can be worked around with amazing play. Americans want to win, intrinsically and culturally, so we picked him up en masse, drove his metagame to a level so far above other characters that it is very hard for any other character to compete with it, and now we've had to shoot our Frankenstein in the head before he scares any more children.

My belief is that for this reason (which I DO believe to be valid), the rules we've had to create for him, and an overwhelming desire by the players of this game to ban him, it was a reasonable thing to do and I support it. I would have also supported a decision not to ban him, but you need to be more sensitive to the situation in the US instead of just calling em a bunch of scrubs.

Wow, Ive always had thus sane mindset about MK from the beginning, I agree with those points though.

 

[Exce L]

Not that this affects me, being in japan, but I believe your attendance will be low for tournies. Or at least that's the worst disadvantage of doing this.

LMAO

no .

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Not that this affects me, being in japan, but I believe your attendance will be low for tournies. Or at least that's the worst disadvantage of doing this.

I think it depends though if all the MK players decide to drop the game now because they need to learn a new character. However, like I said if they decide to keep MK banned even at international events if you choose to go to said tourney and you are a MK players you should have a second.

 

[DeLux]

I think we have a different understanding of what is top level play here. I'm talking about as in the top 5-8 best players on the boards period. Not the top 50. Because that's not really top now is it? And can you prove who really voted in that poll?

You STILL are incorrect for the parameters you outlined. The poll broke down at between 2.5-3 to 1 on nearly every data point.


Unfortunately I'm not allowed to give out the specific voting details due to SWF Policy. But there is a list and it's been crossreferenced to double check the top players had their say in the matter.

 

[Xyro77]

Ladies and gentlemen, i know your going crazy right now with all of this MK ban stuff but please try and relax. Starting at 10pm(2.5 hours from now) i will be open for any questions you may have and i will be glad to quell you pain. Papa Green Lesbian is here for YOU.

 

[King Funk]

Can you plz stop taking shots at America, I really don't see how America is to blame for this.

There are very similar "America vs the world situations" in other games, past and present, that I can easily associate Brawl's current state with.

 

[zmx]

The fact that you're relating PS2 to Hyrule and also comparing it to an MK ban is probably the most ridiculous thing I've read in this thread so far. I'm pretty sure you just forfeited any kind of validity to your arguments now.

Aren't you the guy that made it legal in the first place? I'm not surprised you are getting mad. But it really goes to show your hypocrisy. Ban anything that personally affects your gameplay negatively but whatever gives you an edge even if it's clearly broken (in this case ps2) is fine.

 

[Alex Strife]

Going to eat so ya xD gonna dip for a bit.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

There are very similar "America vs the world situations" in other games, past and present, that I can easily associate Brawl's current state with.

what are you talking about?

 

[Juushichi]

Not that this affects me, being in japan, but I believe your attendance will be low for tournies. Or at least that's the worst disadvantage of doing this.

That's not necessarily the case for us here. The attendance in the state is dropping mostly because no one really wants to live in Ohio (have fun in texas Y.b.M. and Infern) but our core players will go to tournaments here either way just because a lot of us (and some of the nearby states) enjoy coming together to play.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Yes, it is definetly a big issue that just got decided a while back, nobody is really going to relax.