Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[Mekos]

well this is my hope.

Melee and brawl players come together for SMASH 4 so our turnouts are so huge we can have an official org. like MLG pick us up. We won't have to worry about any of this stuff cuz they won't allow obvious gayness that will hurt their image as people watch.

 

[B.A.M.]

I voted pro-ban. These are my reasons:

1. MK is the ONLY character to have surgical rules aimed at him just to try to keep him legal. Even with these, he still manages to tower over the rest of the cast AND is still causing controversy to add MORE rules against him (Scrooging & MK cannot CP...CPs...?). LGL sort of contradicts this, but MKs LGL is far less than the rest of the casts.

2. MK's worst MU is himself, and his worst stage is FD, where he still will almost always have the advantage. That is a SERIOUS problem when our game is based off of MUs, stages, and CPing. MK cannot be CPed to put him at a disadvantage. MK's worst case scenario is ICs on FD, and if he bans that, he has no disadvantage, if that's even considered a disadvantage. No other character has this type of CP advantage. The MUs that people claim go even with MK, get torn apart eventually when the MKs learn the MUs (Pikachu, Yoshi, Snake, DDD, Diddy, Falco, etc...)

3. We are trying to cater our stage list to keeping MK legal. This sort of coincides with #1, but is more serious as it affects all characters. Why remove even more stages just because of MK when without MK there is no real problem with them?

4. The last reason is just plain over-centralization. Take a look at doubles, for example. Nearly every team needs at least one MK to keep up. In singles, it's less dominant, but still a pretty big problem, especially when combined with all of the above.

Overall, it's hard to say whether or not MK is "broken" because that depends on your definition of broken. If all of the above falls within your definition of broken, then to you he is considered broken. Either case, I don't see how you can defend him being legal in 2011. In 2009, yea sure, but not now when things are just getting worse.

1. Okay we have the LGL and IDC. What are theres other rules? The LGL in itself is a ridiculous rule and has been talked over in here. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=310705

2. His worst MU is himself. He is the best character in the game. I dont see Larry getting completely demolished, except for recently when the dude hasnt even had a Wii. ADHD loses basically to Anti and M2K; thats it. The latter being a Melee legend who had an enormous head start at the games launch, the former plays diddy and has been basically taught by the later. Every time I hear ADHD complain, heck a lot of times people claim MK is a decent MU, they later remark on how our CP system gives extreme buffs to the character. This has been something that has been an issue since day one.

3. Our stage list buffs Aerial Characters which is silly because the main way you rack up damage in this game anyways due to lack of hitstun is juggling which can be done anywhere. When best character is an aerial character and you put these stages in that focus on these overcentralizing aerial techs over course thats going to push MK over in to seemingly unbeatable. those stages in themselves do not promote competitive depth. Just because you add more stages does it mean it increases that automatically. Im telling you if you banned top tier and had Gdubs, he would probably wreck the same as MK is now. RC and Brinstar are too powerful CPs for aerial characters. And they dont advocate for much skill.

4. Overcentralization: I could go and talk about Chun in 3S or Cable in MvC2, but i think the best evidence actually comes from John#s data. The only thing that was 'staggering' was MK's amount of money won, which makes sense becauseeeeee.............M2K, the guy who goes to more tournies than anyone and is the top player in our country, Tyrant who is the top player period regardless of character in WC who mains MK, Anti whos definitely in the top 5 players in the country and Seibrik who at a time was dominating his area. If you look at the data and consider these factors, it just so happens the money is centralized by MK because of JUST THESE PLAYERS.


Also: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13427447&postcount=8398

 

[zmx]

So now we just wait until the NA brawl community starts making excuses for their lack of skill again and then it's ban diddy or falco. Notice how most top players (not just good or tourny hosts, but the best of the best) don't want him banned/don't care.

Also notice how Japan and Euro never have trouble with MK. The only two reasons could be lack of good MKs or they are better at the matchups. The latter is far more plausible.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

You cannot compare Mk to Diddy and Falco.

 

[King Funk]

B.A.M speaks the truth.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

They earned their money by playing a character against which everyone knew how to play.

Don't make it sound like it was easy.

Correction, they were using a character whose move set over powers the whole cast.

I dont doubt the abilities of good MK mains as they probably have enough skill to pick up and be good with other characters.

 

[B.A.M.]

@ Delux: I also believe that this data was COMPLETELY neglected




METAKNIGHTS DOMINANCE by Tuen

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

ALMOST - I think you need to understand that we will never be as big as Evo but as far as production value and getting our community to become bigger Apex does that.

Like I said this issue should of been left until after the Apex to annoucne it.

I won't go as far as to say that APEX will never be as big as evo since evo wasn't as big as it always was. The only thing that separates Brawl from Street fighter is the fact that the company embraces the competitive community where as for brawl it's looked down upon. With time this may change and if it does change then the scene will def grow more.

 

[Player-1]

Mekos, we hold weekly meetings and talk about upcoming rules. Usually there is a good split in what we think. Sometimes we change other peoples minds, sometimes there's a compromise, or sometimes there's an amendment etc. After that there's usually a bit more of agreement.

 

[Browny]

I gotta admit... I didnt expect the BRC to actually do anything.

However this means little until jan 9. MK has been optionally bannable since day one. Ill wait until jan 9 before being happy about this, thats over 3 months the BRC will have to deal with of whingers, sirlin fanboys and europeans who should mind their own business, criticising this ban.

This will test the resolve of the BRC, I hope they stick by it.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

^ Agree with Browny.

 

[Bizkit047]

So now we just wait until the NA brawl community starts making excuses for their lack of skill again and then it's ban diddy or falco. Notice how most top players (not just good or tourny hosts, but the best of the best) don't want him banned/don't care.

Also notice how Japan and Euro never have trouble with MK. The only two reasons could be lack of good MKs or they are better at the matchups. The latter is far more plausible.

Not sure what you're talking about, tons of top players want him banned. In fact, if the vote were based off of top players only, he'd still be banned. Bad statement.

 

[*JuriHan*]

@ King funk

no.

MK got what he deserved. And it was easy compared to other characters, look at his MUs. He had all the options in the world defense and offense wise, all the recovery options, 10,000 "I win" buttons with his unrivaled priority, frame safe nonsense.

No.

 

[-Ran]

I gotta admit... I didnt expect the BRC to actually do anything.

However this means little until jan 9. MK has been optionally bannable since day one. Ill wait until jan 9 before being happy about this, thats over 3 months the BRC will have to deal with of whingers, sirlin fanboys and europeams who should mind their own business, criticising this ban.

This will test the resolve of the BRC, I hope they stick by it.

You misunderstand, Meta Knight is optionally -allowed- until after Apex. The official rule set states that he is banned.

 

[Mekos]

well whats done is done. Sorry M2k. That mk was on a level no other player even came close.

I understand player-1. I'm just letting u know how it looks on the outside. This and standing infinites are my examples.
Your clarification is appreciated tho.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Ehh, there were definitely more than a few MK "cinderela stories" (shoutouts to who coined this term lol)

 

[King Funk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjqAoStgzRQ

 

[Dark 3nergy]

So in the next game what would be the best course of action in the case of 'ban criteria'. Getting MK banned took way too long for this community.

FFS why did it take so loving long?

 

[King Funk]

So in the next game what would be the best course of action in the case of 'ban criteria'. Getting MK banned took way too long for this community.

FFS why did it take so loving long?

Because there were reasonable people who tried to avoid this from happening. In the end they couldn't.

In the end, blame the american game mentality.

 

[zmx]

Not sure what you're talking about, tons of top players want him banned. In fact, if the vote were based off of top players only, he'd still be banned. Bad statement.

Did you read the discussion thread? It was pretty clear from it that the majority wanted MK banned (from a vote mostly by casuals) but the best players with the most consistant tourny success didn't or didn't care. Even one of the committee members said this.

 

[*JuriHan*]

So in the next game what would be the best course of action in the case of 'ban criteria'. Getting MK banned took way too long for this community.

FFS why did it take so loving long?

here's a good start

NOT OVERRIDING COMMUNITY POLL WHEN MAJORITY VOTED PRO BAN

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Reasonable people that tried to prevent it by altering our ruleset for him.

 

[Akaku94]

My Reaction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs

 

[ElDominio]

I hope this doesn't get washed away but...

I see people comparing MK to some character in SF3 / MvC2

Games have changed a lot by then, and so have people.


The deal is, I'm sure if it weren't for Capcom's active involvement in their fighting game scene, D-Phoenix would be extra-banned by now...

 

[Bizkit047]

1. Okay we have the LGL and IDC. What are theres other rules? The LGL in itself is a ridiculous rule and has been talked over in here. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=310705

I'm curious, do you think MK doesn't need a LGL? Not sure if that's what you're implying or not.

2. His worst MU is himself. He is the best character in the game. I dont see Larry getting completely demolished, except for recently when the dude hasnt even had a Wii. ADHD loses basically to Anti and M2K; thats it. The latter being a Melee legend who had an enormous head start at the games launch, the former plays diddy and has been basically taught by the later. Every time I hear ADHD complain, heck a lot of times people claim MK is a decent MU, they later remark on how our CP system gives extreme buffs to the character. This has been something that has been an issue since day one.

So you're suggesting we change our CP system completely just because of one character? I guess that can be added to the list of things that caters to MK...

3. Our stage list buffs Aerial Characters which is silly because the main way you rack up damage in this game anyways due to lack of hitstun is juggling which can be done anywhere. When best character is an aerial character and you put these stages in that focus on these overcentralizing aerial techs over course thats going to push MK over in to seemingly unbeatable. those stages in themselves do not promote competitive depth. Just because you add more stages does it mean it increases that automatically. Im telling you if you banned top tier and had Gdubs, he would probably wreck the same as MK is now. RC and Brinstar are too powerful CPs for aerial characters. And they dont advocate for much skill.

FD and SV are heavily in favor of ground based characters. Don't quite see the problem here. With MK, he's good on all the stages. G&W is not.

4. Overcentralization: I could go and talk about Chun in 3S or Cable in MvC2, but i think the best evidence actually comes from John#s data. The only thing that was 'staggering' was MK's amount of money won, which makes sense becauseeeeee.............M2K, the guy who goes to more tournies than anyone and is the top player in our country, Tyrant who is the top player period regardless of character in WC who mains MK, Anti whos definitely in the top 5 players in the country and Seibrik who at a time was dominating his area. If you look at the data and consider these factors, it just so happens the money is centralized by MK because of JUST THESE PLAYERS.

And if you take into account that most of the top spots are still taken by MKs that aren't them, then it almost negates that argument.

 

[King Funk]

here's a good start

NOT OVERRIDING COMMUNITY POLL WHEN MAJORITY VOTED PRO BAN

Majority? You mean users on smashboards are reliable and trustworthy when it comes to making decisions about anything?

 

[Asdioh]

¯\_(ツ )_/¯

 

[B.A.M.]

Reasonable people that tried to prevent it by altering our ruleset for him.

Oh yeah the best altering ever. Instead of seeing into the who CP issue ADHD and other top players of other characters were talking about since day one now regarding Brinstar and RC, they were not changed? Thats weird.....

 

[-Ran]

So in the next game what would be the best course of action in the case of 'ban criteria'. Getting MK banned took way too long for this community.

FFS why did it take so loving long?

I had previously brought this up in the various circles that I'm a part of. No one wanted to create a written guide for banning a character, because they all felt that it would mean that Meta Knight would have to become banned.

 

[Browny]

You misunderstand, Meta Knight is optionally -allowed- until after Apex. The official rule set states that he is banned.

Oh please.

MK isnt banned until he is forcibly removed. Anything else is NO DIFFERENT to the dozens of 'mk allowed' tournaments since brawl came out.

As of today, mk is soft-banned. Thats cool. all I care about is that the BRC sticks by their guns and hard bans him.

 

[Alex Strife]

Like I said it goes back to the difference in the US between casual level thinking and hardcore competitive thinking.

This is why some stages are seen as ok vs others and others thing stages are bad in general.

 

[Moritaka]

That's because it was forum policy to not be able to speak about Meta Knight in public. That's when you know there's a problem.

Can you tell me more about that policy, please?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

In the end, blame the american game mentality.

this statement is actually correct

But not for the reasons you're thinking.

 

[Tulat]

So he's finally getting banned? Sounds good to me.

 

[DeLux]

Did you read the discussion thread? It was pretty clear from it that the majority wanted MK banned (from a vote mostly by casuals) but the best players with the most consistant tourny success didn't or didn't care. Even one of the committee members said this.

This is incorrect.

The top level of play was consistent with the poll data.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Because there were reasonable people who tried to avoid this from happening. In the end they couldn't.

In the end, blame the american game mentality.

Blaming on just Amercia wouldnt be the best thing to say. Players just found ways to just exploit MKs strengths to the a point where he could not be beat. I would call it more of a trend.

I dont blame that. I blame the game developer for doing such a craptastic job of game design. From the bottom up. If the developer actually cared about how hitboxes are and how the game environment is, then we wouldnt have this MK problem.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Jesus ****ing Christ, there are 8 posts under one minute.

 

[Joaco]

You can suck my ballz. Diddy Kong mains WILL get ***** by all Snakes. Ally is going to win EVERY tournament without MK.

 

[King Funk]

this statement is actually correct even though you probably dont understand why

I could write a massive post about it. I won't bother because no one would read it. Too many people in this thread at the moment for anything to be taken seriously.

 

[Moritaka]

Blaming on just Amercia wouldnt be the best thing to say. Players just found ways to just exploit MKs strengths to the a point where he could not be beat. I would call it more of a trend.

I dont blame that. I blame the game developer for doing such a craptastic job of game design. From the bottom up.

This. Everyone have a different way of playing in a way or other.