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Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

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unknown522

Some guy
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Aug 17, 2005
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Toronto, Ontario
DK>Mario, DK= Doctor Mario

We all agree on this icey :)
how does DK beat mario? mario's combo game ****s DK hard in the ***. He's probably the only character (aside from CGable characters) that mario can actually combo without the other player having bad DI.


anyways:

mario << fox
mario << falco
mario << marth
mario << sheik
mario << jiggs
mario << falcon
mario = peach
mario << ICs
mario = ganon
mario = samus
mario = doc
mario = luigi
mario > DK
mario = pikachu
mario > link
mario > YL
mario > GAW
mario > zelda
mario >> roy
mario >> bowser
mario >> yoshi
mairo >> ness
mario > M2
mario >> kirby
mario >>> pichu

Probably missing characters
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
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8,861
Location
NYC
I think you're overestimating Mario's comboing potential on DK, let alone the fact he has to find his way through DK's superior range. Mario has some cute combo on many characters and unfortunately DK is no different from most characters, seriously.

Mario can't kill. And I mean this both ways. DK is hard to edgeguard, let alone KO off the stage. Mario has to work hard to get the combos going, and has to work had to get a KO. Thing is, Mario is another character that has trouble getting past a DK using Bair correctly. Tilts and Giant Punch are also very worrisome for Mario. DK can still Up throw Uair Mario at % where he dies from the Uair. DK edgeguards him extremely well. Also long as the character isn't Jigglypuff or Luigi/Samus at higher %, DK can still get a string of Uairs going. Trust me, racking up damage is no problem, let alone the fact it can simply be done patiently as Mario is trying to get instead DK's range.
Unforunately, DK can't Up B oos Mario when he hits his shield in certain parts. Lucky for DK, almost always if Mario is hitting your shield that way, he's in a position where he's going to get shield grabbed.

If Mario had everything Doc had, this would be much better for him hehe.

Wrap up: Mario can hit DK a lot but still has a hard time finishing the stock. Unfortunately on top of that... he has to hit DK first, which is very troublesome. DK can be nice and patient with his range and has solid KOing options on his side. DK pretty much just out lives and outranges Mario.

EDIT:

Ok, now to be picky on other things you have said.

Mario=Doc? How so? Doc completely out performs him in everything.
Mario > Link? Mario can't kill dude. Link outranges/spams him. I'll have to elaborate later I guess.
Mario = Peach? Lmao, maybe back in the day. Again, how the **** is Mario killing Peach? It's also not like she has a hard time approaching/damaging him at all. Again, I'll have to add more later lol.
I refuse to except Mario = Zelda as well, for the same reasons a Peach.

Pretty much, we're not done with Mario .

I get back to this later.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
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I've played DK vs Mario a bit from DK's side, and I feel like everything NJz said is true. DK has little trouble edgeguarding Mario. Bthrows and cargo throws are good for setting up Mario for gimps. Indeed, bair shuts Mario down. Even if he camps, DK can approach well using platforms and do use safe bairs and uairs to exert pressure and control space.

I'd support Mario = DK.
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
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NYC
lol, I'm beginning to think we shouldn't even bother with this anymore.

Honestly, do we need to know these matchups? xD

We should just make sure we got Fox/Sheik/Falco/Marth/CF/Peach/Puff/Climber/Ganon vs *insert character* down.

Yes, I left Samus out. She sux.

Usually when these low tiered matchups happen, it's almost always just the better player winning anyways.
 

t3h Icy

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
4,917
Thanks a lot AlphaZealot.

Updated:
Mario = Zelda

Since discussion is dying, I figure to do the rest together. The next set of discussion will be on the bottom 14 characters amongst each other. Them against mid/high/top tiers will be after.

 

BunBun

Smash Master
Joined
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50 Terranite? Really?
Kirby << DK
Kirby << Luigi
Kirby < Pika
Kirby < YL
Kirby = Link, yes. L2 move around spam.
Kirby < Zelda
Kirby << GW
Kirby < M2
Kirby = Roy
Kirby < Yoshi
Kirby < Ness, although I haven't had the chance to play any good Ness players.
Kirby < Bowser
Kirby < Pichu

Just my opinions, but I've done a lot of these against stupid annoying Iori.
 

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
Reposting this because Icey swallowed it with mario sprites.

Not in a million years!
Kage.

Look.

Ur ole man? Cant touch these yung climbers.
OldManandorf is gonna be like "GRR get outa my yarddd pesky kids!" and imma be like "giggle giggle you cant get me you cant get me" as I throw snowballs at your wheelchair filled, fixed-income life.
 

Armada

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
1,366
Kirby is underrated like hell :p

I am serious.

Kirby have advantage against Bowser,M2,Ness,Roy.

Kirby is way better than people give him credit for.
 

Dark Hart

Rejected by Azua
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
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Death Row, North Carolina
Zelda = YLink
Zelda > G&W

I'm apparently not good at explaining things, but from my experience with those match-ups that's what I'd conclude.

For Armada

Zelda >>> Kirby
Kirby < Falco get at Kirby's SHDB lol jk but for serious nah
 

BunBun

Smash Master
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50 Terranite? Really?
Kirby is underrated like hell :p

I am serious.

Kirby have advantage against Bowser,M2,Ness,Roy.

Kirby is way better than people give him credit for.
I don't know much about Ness, but that forward air tends to go through Kirby's back air.

Bowser and Roy, possibly Kirby's favor. I have a tough time dealing with campy bowsers though. It basically comes down to "space perfectly or get Up B'd OoS" and grabbing.

M2, no way. What can you do against him?
 

Sorto

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
409
I know it is late, but I just have to ask,
Do people really believe that the Ganon vs IC match is equal in difficulty to the Peach vs IC match?

Just watching match-up videos, maining the ICs myself, and knowing the history of IC match-ups it sounds terribly wrong.

These are not proof, but just things to note:
1. Peach has without a doubt been known as the ICs worst match-up since the earliest days of competative melee.
2. At top levels of play, in the past, players who couldn't beat Chudat and perhaps other ICies have been known to switch to Peach against them and have much closer matches (even though these players did not main or second peach as a character). The same can not be said for Ganon.
3. IC mains have been known to CP peach players by picking up a secondary specifically to play against peach. Or have been known to play different characters against peach players, even if the character wasn't specifically to counter peach, but just a secondary they may have had. I do not feel that the same is nearly as common for Ganondorf.
4. I feel almost every IC player will agree that peach is one of there personal hardest match-up. Yet I don't feel every IC player would agree to ganon being quite as unbareable.

I feel the ICs matchups are in general just off on this chart. But I don't feel like personally arguing each and everyone. But the ganon one just seemed so wrong that I had to say SOMETHING.
 

unknown522

Some guy
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Location
Toronto, Ontario
I think you're overestimating Mario's comboing potential on DK, let alone the fact he has to find his way through DK's superior range. Mario has some cute combo on many characters and unfortunately DK is no different from most characters, seriously.

Mario can't kill. And I mean this both ways. DK is hard to edgeguard, let alone KO off the stage. Mario has to work hard to get the combos going, and has to work had to get a KO. Thing is, Mario is another character that has trouble getting past a DK using Bair correctly. Tilts and Giant Punch are also very worrisome for Mario. DK can still Up throw Uair Mario at % where he dies from the Uair. DK edgeguards him extremely well. Also long as the character isn't Jigglypuff or Luigi/Samus at higher %, DK can still get a string of Uairs going. Trust me, racking up damage is no problem, let alone the fact it can simply be done patiently as Mario is trying to get instead DK's range.
Unforunately, DK can't Up B oos Mario when he hits his shield in certain parts. Lucky for DK, almost always if Mario is hitting your shield that way, he's in a position where he's going to get shield grabbed.

If Mario had everything Doc had, this would be much better for him hehe.

Wrap up: Mario can hit DK a lot but still has a hard time finishing the stock. Unfortunately on top of that... he has to hit DK first, which is very troublesome. DK can be nice and patient with his range and has solid KOing options on his side. DK pretty much just out lives and outranges Mario.
what do you mean "how do you kill with mario?" use your smashes. F-smash has range and can easily beat DK's b-air. You can u-tilt/u-smash him at many different points. His b-air is his only good ranged move, which requires DK to be in the air. Also, it is incredibly easy to edgeguard DK with pretty much every character in the game. You can take the ledge, or hit him out of his up-b, whether he goes high or low. Also, they both take about the same amount of time to kill each other, but mario has better combos for sure. He also doesn't always have to grab to set them up, whereas DK does. It's also not easy for them to grab each other.

IMO, 55 - 45 mario

EDIT:

Ok, now to be picky on other things you have said.

Mario=Doc? How so? Doc completely out performs him in everything.
Alright, you got me there. Typing error. IMO, it's 55 - 45 for doc.

Mario > Link? Mario can't kill dude. Link outranges/spams him. I'll have to elaborate later I guess.
I used to think that link > mario, but you can out camp link, by reflecting his projectiles and throwing fireballs at him. His fireballs are actually faster than link's projectiles as well and it's not like link's will beat out mario's anyway. Link can keep mario in the air really well, but mario's combo game is much better once again. Edgeguarding is incredibly easy as well. once you take the ledge, you can do whatever you want to him. Also, mario and link take about the same amount of time to kill each other. Just avoid his grab, because it's really slow.

IMO, 55 - 45 mario

Mario = Peach? Lmao, maybe back in the day. Again, how the **** is Mario killing Peach? It's also not like she has a hard time approaching/damaging him at all. Again, I'll have to add more later lol.
yes, he also doesn't have a hard time stuffing her aerials. He also outranges her d-smash, with his own and beats it clean with no clink. He can camp her pretty well and cape her turnips. They do quite a lot of damage, especially if she tries to approach with them. He approach isn't very good without them though. His f-tilt is also good for keeping her out, when she tries to approach with aerials (other than f-air, but it's slow anyway). Still, u-tilt is better.

He can also keep her above him really well with is u-tilt/u-air and is much faster than her on the ground. She has better priority and edgeguarding, but that's about it. His u-smash also kills her pretty quickly as well.


Mario vs Ganon is definitely Ganon advantage.. Tell me how the hell is Mario going to approach Ganon effectively?
first off, if ganon is trying to camp with jump back aerial, you can f-smash through it, or stuff his f-air with a n-air/u-air/b-air/u-tilt/f-tilt and potentially get a combo. Mario is much faster on the ground. He can also combo ganon well off throws on top of that. Ganon takes less hits to kill mario, but mario has a good combo game on ganon. They both have easy edgeguards on each other as well.

Secondly, mario is much faster if ganon wants to stay on the ground and can easily get shield grabbed for most of his ground moves (aside from f-tilt).
 

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
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M2 kirby is close to equal, but m2 has more range and some floaty combos. He is also more mobile and has a projectile. Upthrow kills kirby at low percentages and m2 has better recovery.

Kirby has more priority in attacks. Also If you have better spacing that your opponent you can win.

Kirby has a better aerial approach and m2 has a better grounded approach.

Stacked up m2 has a slight advantage. Its basically all spacing, but m2 has some combos, better mobility, and a projectile.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
16,250
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Montreal, Quebec
Wow no way dude, that **** doesnt work unknown, mario sucks lol.

How will Mario shield grab Ganon from the ground, he doesn't have enough speed to do that at all. And Mario in the air is obviously death for him against Ganon.
 

BunBun

Smash Master
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50 Terranite? Really?
M2 kirby is close to equal, but m2 has more range and some floaty combos. He is also more mobile and has a projectile. Upthrow kills kirby at low percentages and m2 has better recovery.

Kirby has more priority in attacks. Also If you have better spacing that your opponent you can win.

Kirby has a better aerial approach and m2 has a better grounded approach.

Stacked up m2 has a slight advantage. Its basically all spacing, but m2 has some combos, better mobility, and a projectile.
M2 is too slippery on the ground (and with his up b) for Kirby's aerial approach to do anything useful.
 

unknown522

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Wow no way dude, that **** doesnt work unknown, mario sucks lol.

How will Mario shield grab Ganon from the ground, he doesn't have enough speed to do that at all. And Mario in the air is obviously death for him against Ganon.
You can pretty much shield grab/WD -> grab on anything ganon does on the ground aside from his f-tilt. Which you can WD -> d-smash/u-tilt on anyway.

And yeah, mario is screwed when he's in the air. It's pretty bad for ganon too. Just avoid obvious d-airs.
 

JPOBS

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ganon definitely > mario

come on guys be real =/
why, whats the actual reason, other than "ganon is higher tier'd" of course.

unknown atleast gave a reasonable arguement. you and kage of basically only said "no, you're wrong duh"
playing the devils advocate here.
 

otg

Smash Master
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On my 5th 4 Loko and still ****** you.
why, whats the actual reason, other than "ganon is higher tier'd" of course.
.
This seems to be the general train of thought with like ALL mid tier matchups but w'e.

I agree with everything Unknown said about Mario. the one thing I will comment on against Peach (this applies to both mario and Doc) is caping her turnips can become a liability. It's really good if the peach is using them to come in and approach every single time (aka a bad peach), but she can bait the cape and punish it really really well. Granted, this is assuming you DO cape Turnips everytime, but once again, just food for thought.
 

A2ZOMG

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A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
how does DK beat mario? mario's combo game ****s DK hard in the ***. He's probably the only character (aside from CGable characters) that mario can actually combo without the other player having bad DI.


anyways:


mario << falcon
mario = peach
mario << ICs
mario = ganon
mario = samus
mario = pikachu
Corrections

Mario goes about neutral with Falcon. It could be slight Falcon's advantage, but it's a close matchup. Mario has decent walls and options for punishing Falcon's approaches, and when he gets his hands on Falcon, it could easily be a stock. Much more easily than against Fox, due to how simple it is to gimp Falcon.

Mario loses to Peach pretty significantly. It's a boring matchup in her favor, but it boils down to the fact that Mario really can't kill Peach without landing a U-smash or F-smash, neither of which he can legitimately combo into at KO percents. While Peach just needs to gimp him.

Mario goes neutral with the ICs. B-throw and F-smash **** the ICs, and his B-air -> waveland spacing gives him the tools to evade grabs easily.

Ganon is one of Mario's worst matchups imo. Mario can't really kill or gimp Ganon consistently while Ganon can do those two things very easily to Mario. Unlike Falcon, Ganon doesn't get autocomboed into kill moves or edgeguards the same way, and he does a MUCH better job of wallling Mario.

And Mario beats Pikachu like 70/30 lol. D-throw CG and other dumb stuff is too good lol.
 

otg

Smash Master
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On my 5th 4 Loko and still ****** you.
Corrections

Mario goes about neutral with Falcon. It could be slight Falcon's advantage, but it's a close matchup. Mario has decent walls and options for punishing Falcon's approaches, and when he gets his hands on Falcon, it could easily be a stock. Much more easily than against Fox, due to how simple it is to gimp Falcon.

Mario loses to Peach pretty significantly. It's a boring matchup in her favor, but it boils down to the fact that Mario really can't kill Peach without landing a U-smash or F-smash, neither of which he can legitimately combo into at KO percents. While Peach just needs to gimp him.

Mario goes neutral with the ICs. B-throw and F-smash **** the ICs, and his B-air -> waveland spacing gives him the tools to evade grabs easily.

Ganon is one of Mario's worst matchups imo. Mario can't really kill or gimp Ganon consistently while Ganon can do those two things very easily to Mario. Unlike Falcon, Ganon doesn't get autocomboed into kill moves or edgeguards the same way, and he does a MUCH better job of wallling Mario.

And Mario beats Pikachu like 70/30 lol. D-throw CG and other dumb stuff is too good lol.
I agree with most of this, I can't comment on ganon tho.
 

Rappster

Smash Ace
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Kage.

Look.

Ur ole man? Cant touch these yung climbers.
OldManandorf is gonna be like "GRR get outa my yarddd pesky kids!" and imma be like "giggle giggle you cant get me you cant get me" as I throw snowballs at your wheelchair filled, fixed-income life.
but he gets the wheelchair for free cause he's canadian
 
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