Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[KAOSTAR]

Lol this thread is amazing. It has a little bit of everything.

 

[Shiri]

But mostly nothing.

 

[john!]

i don't think anyone here hates you dark hart... but you're the one who started the personal attacks against merkuri... so giou and i pointed out that the pot was calling the kettle black.

anyway yeah, back to matchup discussion lol.

 

[Shroomed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GkW__7kSwk

you should've at least chosen a video that made you look like a decent player or sumthin lol

 

[Dark Hart]

Lol this thread is amazing. It has a little bit of everything.

I try to add spice to boring *** ****

i don't think anyone here hates you dark hart... but you're the one who started the personal attacks against merkuri... so giou and i pointed out that the pot was calling the kettle black.

anyway yeah, back to matchup discussion lol.

1. merkuri attacked me first in another thread, so what I said was warranted.
2. match-up discussion? oh yeah I forgot what this thread was for.

 

[Roneblaster]

i think its about m2 vs zelda

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

mewtwo *****

 

[Dark Hart]

i think its about m2 vs zelda

naw, we got a new thread for that

 

[FoxLisk]

you should've at least chosen a video that made you look like a decent player or sumthin lol

hahaha seriously. if you think drpp was playing anything like seriously that match, that even further discredits you as a knowledgeable melee player. i guess you're not "the pinnacle of video evaluation" either, bro.

 

[Dark Hart]

you should've at least chosen a video that made you look like a decent player or sumthin lol

hahaha seriously. if you think drpp was playing anything like seriously that match, that even further discredits you as a knowledgeable melee player. i guess you're not "the pinnacle of video evaluation" either, bro.

*facepalm*

If you guys think I'm serious about that then you really got trolled and missed my point. Those friendlies were recorded at 8 in the morning after we'd only fallen asleep 3 hours earlier.
Shroomed was just being a ***** ( <3 ), but you FoxLisk, you're just dumb.

 

[Cosmo!]

ganon's fair and bair make the matchup horrendously difficult for zelda compared to doc or mario, whom zelda outranges at all times

 

[KAOSTAR]

*facepalm*

If you guys think I'm serious about that then you really got trolled and missed my point. Those friendlies were recorded at 8 in the morning after we'd only fallen asleep 3 hours earlier.
Shroomed was just being a ***** ( <3 ), but you FoxLisk, you're just dumb.

Did you just call Shroomed a *****?!?!
[/GASP]

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

bloshi is ****ing ****.

merkuri is just a troll. just ignore him.... you call him out and you only start something bigger. hes not gonna get mad or anything because he doesn't exist.

 

[ChivalRuse]

you should've at least chosen a video that made you look like a decent player or sumthin lol

Yea. No one looks good when they lose.

 

[giuocob]

Dark Hart, calm the **** down. Nobody's trying to start something with you, but when you lash out and try to put everyone around you down, you're going to make enemies. Why are you taking all this serious, it's the INTERNET.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...Zelda >>> Mewtwo. This is so obvious.

 

[Merkuri]

bloshi is ****ing ****.

merkuri is just a troll. just ignore him.... you call him out and you only start something bigger. hes not gonna get mad or anything because he doesn't exist.

I find this annoying and it does upset me. In the past month or so I'd argue that I've contributed more to this thread than you have. Where do you get off calling me a troll?

I'm not sure what you mean by I don't ''exist''. I won a melee tournament which I already posted in your character rankings thread. I don't see why you need to be an a$$ towards me.

And yeah back to the discussion.

Why does the chart say Mario does better against Pikachu than Doc? Unless the difference in their recovery plays a big factor in this match up it should be impossible for Mario to do better.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Dthrow -> kobe. Lulz. So broken.

 

[Merkuri]

my point exactly.

 

[N64]

Why does the chart say Mario does better against Pikachu than Doc? Unless the difference in their recovery plays a big factor in this match up it should be impossible for Mario to do better.

I think mario is a worse matchup for pikachu than doc is. I don't know if it's enough for the difference, as I feel their both borderline between > and >> for pika, but yeah. No idea about YL though.

If you want actual reasoning, Mario's dthrow->fsmash can kill on many stages and is viable at lower percents than doc's dthrow->kobe. Fsmash in general can be rough for pika to get around, as many things that lead to dsmash lead to fsmash for mario, and it hurts a bit more. It's also pretty difficult(possibly impossible) to punish if shielded. Mario's recovery is slightly better. Mario's aerial combo game feels a bit harder to get away from (there's no menacing fair as with doc, but rarely to combos end in fair anyway). His nair is better for escaping combos, etc.

It's not a huge difference, but I've always felt mario does a little better vs chu.

 

[otg]

Andy, I've been playing with Vanz pika and I've learned a few new things. I can't wait to show you the next time we play. Oh but a big one, is if Doc lands a grab around like 70-80%, (the % right before dthrow -> kobe starts to work and the % right after dthrow -> dsmash/fsmash dont work anymore), you can dthrow -> uair -> fair prettty much regardless of DI. Pretty ****.

 

[N64]

that's terrifying

 

[KAOSTAR]

everyone's a troll just tryin to get a bridge.

 

[Winston]

If you want actual reasoning, Mario's dthrow->fsmash can kill on many stages and is viable at lower percents than doc's dthrow->kobe.

Can't you avoid the sweetspot of dthrow->fsmash by not DIing to the side?

also, Mario's utilt seems pretty sick for starting combos in the matchup.

 

[N64]

yes, then he can regrab you, until higher percents, where usmash works for similar results. Mario's utilt is pretty boss too, yeah.

 

[The Star King]

EDIT: Nvm off topic

 

[P. O. F.]

I'm sorry but I really need to say this:

LOL at Marth Vs Roy only at +2 for Marth.

Are you guys for real? Arguably one of Marths easiest match ups. Roy simply gets edge guarded by a simple d tilt and nothing else. He can't get in on a good Marth AT ALL. If you honestly just don't space wrong like an idiot Roy gets destroyed. Marth just goes lol u throw and if the Roy jumps from it he basically dies. It's incredibly easy to combo him and Marth can basicaly treat him like a spacey in every sense of the word.

Most of this chart is pretty accurate but there are some WTFS

 

[KirbyKaze]

You can actually drop off the edge and counter Roy's Up+B and then recover with Up+B and hog him. Or ledgehop counter. It's hilarious.

 

[PEEF!]

Dark Hart is bad at melee.

 

[Dark Hart]

Dark Hart is bad at melee.

Pretty much, I suck.

 

[KAOSTAR]

You betta flame that dude.


GEt em!!!!!

 

[Dark Hart]

Bro, I suck at this game. He's right.

 

[john!]

there should be a rule: you can only tell someone that they're bad at melee if you're significantly better than them.

 

[Merkuri]

why is Samus vs Shiek only -1. It really is a **** match up, it's not just a slight advantage. Shiek locks Samus down really well and her combos on Samus are devastating and plentiful.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I think the actual samus players said otherwise. But I could be wrong. I didnt follow the samus discussion

 

[Geist]

Don't look at me I said Sheik >> Samus

 

[Merkuri]

I know Hugs said that it's Shiek >> Samus. And since there was no opposition that should have been for the chart to say Shiek >> Samus.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think HugS said otherwise. But I could be wrong. I didnt follow the samus discussion

Fix'd

I don't fight Samus very often so I don't really mind it being -1. In fact, there seems to be a push for characters that Sheik beats to be -1.

edit:

I know Hugs said that it's Shiek >> Samus. And since there was no opposition that should have been for the chart to say Shiek >> Samus.

I've already made posts defending the more controversial match ups (Fox/Falco vs Samus) Which I feel are:
Samus > Falco
Samus = Fox

My other opinions are as follows:

Marth >> Samus
Sheik > Samus
Peach = Samus
Falcon = Samus
Jiggly > Samus
Samus > IC
Samus > Doc
Samus > Luigi
Samus < Link
Samus < DK
Samus < Ganon
Samus > Pikachu
Samus > Mario

I will only do a big write up on Falcon/Peach if it is considered too much of an odd opinion and someone tries to tell me otherwise. In other words, i need someone to say why falcon/peach ***** Samus so that I may correct them from my perspective.

I will not comment on other matches because the consensus is as I put it, or I do not know enough about the match up to say why I feel this way.

I could touch on Sheik Marth too I guess. Let me know.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

i agree sheik>>samus

i do know some samus players that like to fight sheiks though

 

[KAOSTAR]

its better than having your character lose every matchup cuz apparently sbs are trash and dont work at all. and m2 has 0000 strengths except recovering from **** only to get ***** again and die.

 

[NJzFinest]

lol Peef, you're the last person to be saying stuff like that.