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Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

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Merkuri

Merkuri

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john! said:
samus is

- heavy as ****, heavier than ganon even i believe
- has easily one of the best recoveries in the game
- nice jab, tilts, and smashes for close range
- fantastic CC game helped by her weight
- up B OOS and nair disrupt combos easily
- weight and floatiness also prevent heavy combos
- has an excellent wavedash
- good and powerful projectile game

yup she's a pretty bad char ;)
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I just read on a guide that said Samus is the 3rd heaviest character in the game. However that same guide says Falco is as light as Pikachu, so I'm not sure how credible that is. I kinda doubt Samus is that heavy.
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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Merkuri said:
I just read on a guide that said Samus is the 3rd heaviest character in the game. However that same guide says Falco is as light as Pikachu, so I'm not sure how credible that is. I kinda doubt Samus is that heavy.
Click to expand...
--- 117 --- (1) Bowser
--- 114 --- (2) DK
--- 110 --- (3) Samus
--- 109 --- (4) Ganondorf
--- 108 --- (5) Yoshi
--- 104 --- (6-7) Captain Falcon / Link
--- 100 --- (8-10) Dr. Mario / Luigi / Mario
--- 94 --- (11) Ness
--- 90 --- (12-14) Peach / Sheik / Zelda
--- 88 --- (15) Ice Climbers
--- 87 --- (16) Marth
--- 85 --- (17-19) Mewtwo / Roy / Young Link
--- 80 --- (20-21) Falco / Pikachu
--- 75 --- (22) Fox
--- 70 --- (23) Kirby
--- 60 --- (24-25) Jigglypuff / Mr. Game & Watch
--- 55 --- (26) Pichu
 
Nintendude

Nintendude

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Merkuri said:
I just read on a guide that said Samus is the 3rd heaviest character in the game. However that same guide says Falco is as light as Pikachu, so I'm not sure how credible that is. I kinda doubt Samus is that heavy.
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It's absolutely true. Even the bit about Falco being pretty light (weight =/= falling speed).

Fastfallers appear extra heavy because if they DI full up they don't die off the top as easily. When floaties who are heavy (like Samus) DI up, they die off the top.
 
idea

idea

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Sveet said:
--- 117 --- (1) Bowser
--- 114 --- (2) DK
--- 110 --- (3) Samus
--- 109 --- (4) Ganondorf
--- 108 --- (5) Yoshi
--- 104 --- (6-7) Captain Falcon / Link
--- 100 --- (8-10) Dr. Mario / Luigi / Mario
--- 94 --- (11) Ness
--- 90 --- (12-14) Peach / Sheik / Zelda
--- 88 --- (15) Ice Climbers
--- 87 --- (16) Marth
--- 85 --- (17-19) Mewtwo / Roy / Young Link
--- 80 --- (20-21) Falco / Pikachu
--- 75 --- (22) Fox
--- 70 --- (23) Kirby
--- 60 --- (24-25) Jigglypuff / Mr. Game & Watch
--- 55 --- (26) Pichu
Click to expand...
Weight is very deceiving in smash. Fox and falco are very light. That's why they get combo'd/CG'd pretty hard by a lot of characters. What adds to their comboability, is their fall speed as well (also, poor roy...). A combination of weight + fall speed is what determines a character's knockback. That's why falcon looks like he could be potentially the heaviest character. It is because he has the highest weight + fall speed combination, though he is the 7th heaviest, whereas samus will die faster off the top, though she is the third heaviest. It is because she is very floaty. She CCs like a monster though.

You can also tell how heavy a character is by weighing them on MK1, or checking their CC percents. Also, the heavier you are, the less hitstun you will have.

also, DK = samus.




- Unknown522
 
Archangel

Archangel

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not sure I agree with DK = Samus.

In some situations you can Dair DK and he can't recover using his m-cancel:laugh:


Besides I can't help but see DK as a Giant Target for Samus...but I'm not a samus or DK main so I'll shut up.
 
FoxLisk

FoxLisk

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KAOSTAR said:
Does anyone know what those numbers on the side mean or how they were calculated?
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m2k's site explained it, i dont remember exactly. there's a formula for something or another involving maybe histun that if you plug in those numbers, it works. basically it fits the data.
 
NJzFinest

NJzFinest

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ChivalRuse said:
Well, I'm not surprised if DKs are beating Samuses who can't wavedash oos. :laugh:
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To be fair, I've used the same exact things against Alukard, who is arguably the best Samus player on the East Coast, and had the same results.
Also, Fro is surprisingly good and since then learned how to wavedash oos lol. He trains with CunningKitsune and has given top Midwest players, like Tink, some trouble. I still **** him with DK though.
Spam_arrows said:
not sure I agree with DK = Samus.
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Me too, I'm feeling DK>Samus way more.
Spam_arrows said:
In some situations you can Dair DK and he can't recover using his m-cancel:laugh:
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You can never Dair DK. Never.
Spam_arrows said:
Besides I can't help but see DK as a Giant Target for Samus...but I'm not a samus or DK main so I'll shut up.
Click to expand...
Best part of your post haha.
 
Kyu Puff

Kyu Puff

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KAOSTAR said:
You laughed so Ill take it as a joke.

neutral be is wayyy to laggy to be useful as a reflector. You just bait that **** and punish.

slow projectile and laggy reflector. I dont have to worry about getting hit while you are trying to reflect something thats probably not gonna hit me.
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How do you bait something with shadowballs?
 
KAOSTAR

KAOSTAR

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ihavespaceballs said:
That's how much the character weighs. All items weigh 1 (expect fans), so if you put Roy and two items on one platform of MKI, and Marth on the other, it will stay balanced.
Click to expand...
Oh thats trippy lol. Im gonna check if they are consistent with actual weights using m2s 269.0 as a benchmark.
some**** said:
So Idk, lol. Some seem a little ridiculous

Measured in pounds using the ratio of m2s listed wikia weight to his smash weight

370.3--- 117 --- (1) Bowser
360.8--- 114 --- (2) DK
348.11--- 110 --- (3) Samus
345.0--- 109 --- (4) Ganondorf
341.8--- 108 --- (5) Yoshi
329.1--- 104 --- (6-7) Captain Falcon / Link
316.5--- 100 --- (8-10) Dr. Mario / Luigi / Mario
297.5--- 94 --- (11) Ness
284.8--- 90 --- (12-14) Peach / Sheik / Zelda
278.5--- 88 --- (15) Ice Climbers (139.25 if equal weight)
275.3--- 87 --- (16) Marth
269.0--- 85 --- (17-19) Mewtwo / Roy / Young Link
253.2--- 80 --- (20-21) Falco / Pikachu
237.4--- 75 --- (22) Fox
221.5--- 70 --- (23) Kirby
189.9--- 60 --- (24-25) Jigglypuff / Mr. Game & Watch
174.1--- 55 --- (26) Pich
Click to expand...
I find myself coming up with all sorts of stupid rationales. I figured everyone is an alien and nobody lives on a planet with the same gravity as earth lol.

Kyu Puff said:
How do you bait something with shadowballs?
Click to expand...
You force zelda to react to the sb. if she chooses neutral B like a ******* you can usually punish.

But no you cant force her to neutral B lol :)
 
Alphicans

Alphicans

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I don't believe that you could ever trick zelda into using neutral B. You can definitely react in time to reflect SB, you don't need to predict it... ever.
 
D

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Samus vs Falcon is advantage Falcon but as you go higher up in skill level it gets more and more even

Most samuses are terrible or suck at the falcon matchup

if this matchup chart is about average dudes then its advantage falcon

but if its for actual insight about character potentials and what it should be then its =
 
Geist

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s2j said:
Samus vs Falcon is advantage Falcon but as you go higher up in skill level it gets more and more even

Most samuses are terrible or suck at the falcon matchup

if this matchup chart is about average dudes then its advantage falcon

but if its for actual insight about character potentials and what it should be then its =
Click to expand...
Yeah what exactly are we working from here?
 
KirbyKaze

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IIRC these matchups are supposed to take into consideration the peak gameplay of these characters that's reasonable and performable by humans. That was the intention of worldjem's, anyway, before this one took over. Although I'm really not sure if this has shifted from that to "joe shmoe vs joe shmoe".
 
Merkuri

Merkuri

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No this thread still reflects what happens at the highest level. I believe at the top level it's still Falcon > Samus. I've seen too many recent Silent Spectre vs Hugs videos to think otherwise.
 
R

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Merkuri said:
?? Silent Spectre I think 3-0d Hugs both times when they played last. I really don't see what's even about that.
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winning three matches in a row by one stock each is a lot more even than fourstocking someone, losing by a stock cause you sd'd twice, and then four stocking em again.
 
KAOSTAR

KAOSTAR

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I know what he meant lol.

More like as both players get better the more matches reflect the matchup vs players skill. Less mistakes are made and overall I think the matches would probably be closer and more intense.

Except some of the horrendous matchups.
 
Merkuri

Merkuri

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ChivalRuse said:
In reference to HugS defeating SS in two sets at CGC 15 about a month ago.
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Which is the only times Hugs as beat SS since 2008. SS was simply playing bad that day, and the next two sets they played SS 6-0'd him(and no they were not all a 1 stock); since Hugs ended his retirement the score 5-2 in SS's favor if I remember correctly. The next time they play rest assured that Jeff is going to beat him quite badly again(sorry Hugs :( )
 
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giuocob

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You can't just use a H2H for two distinct people to determine a matchup. Oftentimes said pro will not be good at a matchup, or will just be unwilling to learn it properly.
 
Geist

Geist

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I think I agree with Falcon = Samus at higher levels of play and for the purpose of this thread.
But in lower level matches the MU is really ugly for Samus for sure.
 
Merkuri

Merkuri

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giuocob said:
You can't just use a H2H for two distinct people to determine a matchup. Oftentimes said pro will not be good at a matchup, or will just be unwilling to learn it properly.
Click to expand...
Well that's not the case here. Both players are extremely experienced in the match-up.


ChivalRuse said:
They both **** each other equally at high level, and for the purpose of this chart, Samus = Falcon.
Click to expand...
No they don't. Silent Spectre ***** Hugs over twice as much. YOU generalize a lot, it's annoying.
 
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