X1-12
Smash Champion
so not his range and all this disjointed hiboxes and priority?
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Jigglypuff for Top Tier?
- Thread starter SDC
- Start date
- Status
so not his range and all this disjointed hiboxes and priority?
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
Thanks X1-12, and charlesz, i dont rlly think that jigglypuff is bad against marth, but marth may still beat her
(2 of my best players in melee are Marth and Jigglypuff!)
But jigglypuff maay win less than marth, and its not as good a jiggz dittos....
(2 of my best players in melee are Marth and Jigglypuff!)
But jigglypuff maay win less than marth, and its not as good a jiggz dittos....
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
a lot of mew2king's recent posts in this thread have been pretty legit, surprisingly. I feel that I've actually learned a decent amount from this thread, holy ****
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
....everything you said was false
It is NOT hard for Jiggs to get in on Marth because Jiggs bair actually has THE SAME RANGE as Marth's fair. But Jiggs has more aerial mobility. Jiggs should only be hit if she misses an attack, while on the other hand Marth is stuck shielding 90% of her bairs because he's has to use the ground to space while Jiggs is always airborne.
Marth's throws are NOT a mixup at kill percents. At percentages where f-smash actually kills, both throws can be DI'd STRAIGHT DOWN and Jiggs will be sent too far for Marth to hit. Even PIVOTING doesn't work, cause by the time you reach her she's back on the ground. Only time Marth should be getting a throw to smash is at 0-20ish percent (if Jiggs doesn't get the fully correct DI for the particular throw), or if the Jiggs forgets to DI past that.
Puff CAN edgeguard Marth. She actually edgeguards him absurdedly well (unless he's recovering from very high, to the point where he can jump onto the stage itself with his jump and side B alone). A single baited fair when recovering means DEATH for Marth because his recovery is completely based on his own momentum. Jiggs can ledgehop bair and regrab the ledge over and over, and it's pretty hard to deal with. And if Marth is ever forced to go low, he SHOULD BE DEAD (Hbox knows what I'm talking about). Jiggs can ledgehop backwards to go behind Marth, wait for him to up B (which will miss her since she's behind him), and then grab the ledge before Marth does. Marth CANNOT sweetspot. He is unable to grab the ledge for 12 frames (I think it was 12, I know it was more than 10) after his up B completely stops rising. This is even more aggrivating than lightshield edgehogs. What do you think Jiggs DOES when Marth goes onto the stage?
Marth does not counter puff...at all. Jiggs players just have to learn the matchup (ironic isn't it?)
/rant
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
....everything you said was false
It is NOT hard for Jiggs to get in on Marth because Jiggs bair actually has THE SAME RANGE as Marth's fair. But Jiggs has more aerial mobility. Jiggs should only be hit if she misses an attack, while on the other hand Marth is stuck shielding 90% of her bairs because he's has to use the ground to space while Jiggs is always airborne.
Marth's throws are NOT a mixup at kill percents. At percentages where f-smash actually kills, both throws can be DI'd STRAIGHT DOWN and Jiggs will be sent too far for Marth to hit. Even PIVOTING doesn't work, cause by the time you reach her she's back on the ground. Only time Marth should be getting a throw to smash is at 0-20ish percent (if Jiggs doesn't get the fully correct DI for the particular throw), or if the Jiggs forgets to DI past that.
Puff CAN edgeguard Marth. She actually edgeguards him absurdedly well (unless he's recovering from very high, to the point where he can jump onto the stage itself with his jump and side B alone). A single baited fair when recovering means DEATH for Marth because his recovery is completely based on his own momentum. Jiggs can ledgehop bair and regrab the ledge over and over, and it's pretty hard to deal with. And if Marth is ever forced to go low, he SHOULD BE DEAD (Hbox knows what I'm talking about). Jiggs can ledgehop backwards to go behind Marth, wait for him to up B (which will miss her since she's behind him), and then grab the ledge before Marth does. Marth CANNOT sweetspot. He is unable to grab the ledge for 12 frames (I think it was 12, I know it was more than 10) after his up B completely stops rising. This is even more aggrivating than lightshield edgehogs. What do you think Jiggs DOES when Marth goes onto the stage?
Marth does not counter puff...at all. Jiggs players just have to learn the matchup (ironic isn't it?)
/rant
Umm dark sonic, your off it again...
blueshirt314
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2008
- Messages
- 56
I don't get why the tier list was locked after October 2008. It's not like people stopped playing after Brawl came out; the metagame is still molding itself, and I believe, after playing both not-very-good and very good people with Jiggs for over three years now, that she does deserve a top-tier slot, and that the tier list seriously needs to be redone - even if there's no major changes, it's from 2008, and we're almost a year and a half away from that.
She's a great aerial mover/attacker, she can punish laggy attacks with a one-frame KO move, her comboes are pretty sick, and her ground game, while it pales compared to her aerial prowess and rather lacking in range, is more than adequate (throws, U-Tilt, D-Tilt (Mango), U-Smash, F-Smash, Dash Attack FTW). Not to mention that she can mess with your head better than almost every character in the game.
This discussion was never about Jigglypuff being banned or being the BEST character in the game; it's whether or not she deserves to be moved up a tier. And even though my beating my friend's Snake with Jigglypuff in Brawl over and over again has made me question the existence of tiers, I do think that Melee Jiggs has evolved into one of the game's best characters. With consistent high tournament placings, good matchups against a bunch of the cast (at least according to my own performance in friendlies and the vids I've seen of HBox, Mango, and several other Jiggly players), and a unique-but-deadly playstyle, I don't see why she shouldn't at least be on-par with the other tops.
I still remember when the game first came out and everyone I played thought Jigglypuff was a LOLz character. I picked her (it?) up and thought she was awesome. She may not be flashy or fun to watch, but she's undoubtedly very good.
She's a great aerial mover/attacker, she can punish laggy attacks with a one-frame KO move, her comboes are pretty sick, and her ground game, while it pales compared to her aerial prowess and rather lacking in range, is more than adequate (throws, U-Tilt, D-Tilt (Mango), U-Smash, F-Smash, Dash Attack FTW). Not to mention that she can mess with your head better than almost every character in the game.
This discussion was never about Jigglypuff being banned or being the BEST character in the game; it's whether or not she deserves to be moved up a tier. And even though my beating my friend's Snake with Jigglypuff in Brawl over and over again has made me question the existence of tiers, I do think that Melee Jiggs has evolved into one of the game's best characters. With consistent high tournament placings, good matchups against a bunch of the cast (at least according to my own performance in friendlies and the vids I've seen of HBox, Mango, and several other Jiggly players), and a unique-but-deadly playstyle, I don't see why she shouldn't at least be on-par with the other tops.
I still remember when the game first came out and everyone I played thought Jigglypuff was a LOLz character. I picked her (it?) up and thought she was awesome. She may not be flashy or fun to watch, but she's undoubtedly very good.
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
Devil Ray
Smash Lord
puff is brrroookkkken as f**k. it'd be one thing if she was hard to use, but she's even easier to use than marth and sheik. she needs to banned for life. hungrybox knows it too. he brought up good points, but he knows how easy it is to win with puff. ban the bi1tch. i mean, after 5 hours of using her, i'm reasonably sure i'm top 4 jiggs now
Zatchiel
a little slice of heaven 🍰
Noooo, plz dont wast your time trolling devil ray,
jiggz takes months to truly master. And besides,
she is not easy to use, she is floaty, quick, poor wavedash,
no down smash power(Gimp only) and has the best recovery in the game, if not infinite....
jiggz takes months to truly master. And besides,
she is not easy to use, she is floaty, quick, poor wavedash,
no down smash power(Gimp only) and has the best recovery in the game, if not infinite....
john!
Smash Hero
I'm starting to realize how uninformed this topic really is. Only people who use Puff in tourney should post...
X1-12
Smash Champion
ETWIST51294
Smash Hero
this thread makes melee players look retarted.
john!
Smash Hero
Nope.
Well I guess top pros like M2K could post too, but I don't feel like sifting through the randoms who want to ban Puff or keep her in 7th place, and the Theory Bros. players who repeat the same hypothetical advantages over and over and disregard a top level professional video that I post which demonstrates otherwise. It's frustrating.
My opinion in a nutshell: Puff is top tier, and she is dominating because of the lack of good Marth players. Take it for what you will...
Charlesz
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2007
- Messages
- 2,043
Lol no, and jiggs shouldn't be banned because that will make melee so exciting that people will have heart attacks. What if M2k vs SS was the gf, then im pretty sure half of the people @ pound 4 would still be in a coma right now.
X1-12
Smash Champion
fair enough.. I misunderstood who you were talking about when you said misinformed but its cool
and top tier hmm i dunno i'd say top of high maybe? or joint with peach, but maybe thats just me
X1-12
Smash Champion
okay imagine if you had to normal people with totally conflicting views, and you put them in a room together
ok
now add tons of people randomly shouting out useless crap
= this thread
- the kid is probably one of the people talking **** tbh
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
Jiggs is good, but Mango and Hbox also happen to be 2 of the best players....
Mango's falco and falcon have won quite a few tournies as well
personally, I just think people need to relearn how to play against jiggs because jiggs isn't the old style king. People still play jiggs like they are playing king, eventually people will learn how to beat this style consistently like people learned how to beat M2K's marth
-my 0.02, for what it's worth
Mango's falco and falcon have won quite a few tournies as well
personally, I just think people need to relearn how to play against jiggs because jiggs isn't the old style king. People still play jiggs like they are playing king, eventually people will learn how to beat this style consistently like people learned how to beat M2K's marth
-my 0.02, for what it's worth
Fortress | Sveet
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Ok im tired of this whole "super theory bros" **** thats been thrown around for 15 pages.
Theory is what drives this game. You have strategies and counter strategies. Each player follows certain theories and playstyles and approaches the game from different angles.
In practice, things can turn out different because people make choices and predict the actions of the others. At top play, every player is basically following the same strategies and the only difference in outcomes are the players' ability to understand their opponents.
And if a theory is wrong, that means that that theory is wrong not all theories.
Theory is what drives this game. You have strategies and counter strategies. Each player follows certain theories and playstyles and approaches the game from different angles.
In practice, things can turn out different because people make choices and predict the actions of the others. At top play, every player is basically following the same strategies and the only difference in outcomes are the players' ability to understand their opponents.
And if a theory is wrong, that means that that theory is wrong not all theories.
people never learned how to beat m2k's marth...mango is just too good for one...m2k sucks at the marth vs. puff matchup and he's not in his prime anymore with marth and lacks confidence in using him in several matchups (such as vs. puff/ganon/etc. ) like he did in '07
the only other matchups that m2k wou;d go even or have a bit of difficulty with is marth vs. falcon and marth vs. sheik (KDJ'S SHEIK MOSTLY)
but yes there is a lack of really good marths besides m2k who at this point in his smash career uses other characters and is very matchup dependant going sheik or fox on some matchups and marth for spacies.
NO azen, ken, and confident m2k maining mostly marth = puff domination of the world.
CaptainCrunch
Smash Ace
Wowww... I just got in on this.
And this is stupid as ****.
So many jigglypuff johns. She's so frekin easy its dumb. You need practically no tech skill to beat high level jiggs. When it comes to matchups alone you have marth, fox, falco, falcon. So many characters **** her even frekin doc has stupid **** on her.
And characters like peach have good options against her.
If you really think jiggs is good enough to be banned I'm serious. Go play with her. ask your friend who plays marth to play you.
Since jiggs has such an advantage you'll win for sure. YEAH!
Pick jiggs in tourney and **** all the foxes even though fox is fast as hell, has lasers, and his upsmash kills jiggs at 60.
I'll tell you the secret to beating jiggs.
ready?
you sure?
play gay.
Space her out, spam lasers if you have them. Stop getting hit by stupid back air spam. and use the many tricks that half the cast has to punish her all day long. (fox up throw uair, doc grab to fair, marth to **** no matter what direction you choose)
And don't go to the edge like an idiot, get thrown off the stage to edge guard and ask why you lost.
Banning jiggs is like having banned marth because ken azen and m2k won tourneys with him.
People who complain about jiggs simply don't know the matchup. So the easy answer is learn it.
The fact that people don't know the matchup well is EXACTLY why she has been doing so well. Mango saves jiggs for special situations because everyone who places knows how to play fox and falco, but most don't truly know jiggs.
Why did armada get beat by SS and have such a hard time against hax?
He didn't know the matchup well. Which is understandable. How many good falcons are there in europe?
Hbox arguably top 3 in the nation refuses to go jiggs against me in tourney, he'd rather go shiek. Why is this when he never uses a secondary anywhere else?
Why? cuz I know the **** matchup. And my experience with shiek is less, meaning I have a harder time predicting and punishing as well as maximizing my options.
Now on to the question at hand. Because banning jiggs is so stupid it shouldn't even have to be addressed.
Is she top tier?
In my honest opinion, no. If she is, she is the bottom of top tier, but it's really hard to consider her options better than peach or even in the same league in terms of options as the top tiers. She has a lot of good tactics and edge game, but she is sooooo vulnerable to really stupid stuff. if you don't approach her like and idiot meaning you know how to get around aerials and camp her its really hard for her to do anything due to her lack of ground options. Try and camp fox and see what happens.
Jigglypuff is an extremist. Actually jiggs is so extreme that normally matches between juan and I are so stupid that one of us will be up by 2 stocks and the other will win because one little mistake and either of us dies. She's really easy to kill, but if you have sufficent prediction and execution, she can deliver massive amounts of ****.
Higher level play, comes down to prediction, choices and execution. You can be the most technical fox ever yet if your approach is predicted you'll find yourself getting grab rested, chaingrabed, forward smashed or *insert painful punish here* to death. Whenever i get ***** by jiggs or any character it's not because they are "broken" or top tier. It's because I was predicted, and the other player utilized their characters choices and executed them properly.
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
- Sun Tzu
Sun Tzu was a genius who was way ahead of his time and his principles apply to melee as well.
knowing yourself and the enemy is what it means to be good at smash.
If you understand your characters strong points and limitations, understand your opponents options, can predict them and are able to punish them (execution), I guarantee you, you will win no matter what character you choose. (example is when taj ***** half of the people at pound 4 with mewtwo.)
He understood the enemies' options, understood how mewtwo could punish and attack, and had the tech skill and reaction to do it. So he won, big surprise.
This is also why people can practice tech skill all day, master their character and still get wrecked. You know yourself, but you don't know the enemy.
Since prediction and execution are up to the player, the tier list which deals with the character should deal purely with what choices that character has, additionally that means what choices that character has in terms of survival and defense.
Jiggs has really good choices in terms of edgeguarding. Actually, her edgeguarding choices I believe are more than peach's falcon's and falco's and slightly below to on par with fox marth and shiek. Again, for this to apply you have to utilize these characters choices, e.g. fox's shine, shiek's needles, marth counter and A tap, etc.
Jiggs' choices on the ground are pretty sub par besides maybe well spaced f-smash. Her good point is her grab which on fast fallers can lead to combos or rest, but against most others unless near the edge proves to be just ok, when compared to marth's, shiek's, and fox's. This is one of the primary reasons why she is not top tier. As a character, her options are severely limited on the ground. This is why it's hard for her to approach.
Her choices come in the air. She has a great options in the air. Her aerials are extremely good, and in a match is what allows her to compensate for a lack of ground choices. Also her mobility in the air adds to her ability to utilize those great aerials. Multiple bairs i.e. wall of pain is one of her main options for defense and area control, (a type of approach). This works really well when people don't know how to break through the "wall" because it moves them closer to the edge where one bair can lead to an edge guard.
The infamous rest is her trump card and what pushes her up the tier list to high. The rest is an extremely good punisher when a player understands the enemy well enough to be able to predict and utilize it. It is highly situational, and a player being able to use rest well is a true testament to their skill. It's is not easy to rest like mango and hbox. There is no rest that always works, so if you get rested realize that it's because you screwed up, meaning you didn't DI, you did a stupid roll dodge, you didn't tech so you're getting jab ***** or you teched predictably. However this is a very good tool, but one that can be avoided and punished if the jiggs misses.
Jiggs additionally, dies at really stupid low percentages. As a character this is an advantage and disadvantage. This makes her difficult to combo, but also easy to kill at low percent. which is why combos that nearly always hit (fox uthrow uair) are by far her biggest weakness.
Her ridiculous recovery on the other hand makes it especially hard to gimp her like you traditionally would with most other characters.
her crouch is relatively new and interesting and is another option i notice juan use on alot of falcons and shieks because it lowers the area where she can be hit, which can lead to missed grabs to rest as well as limiting options for many characters who would shffl her in close proximity.
In summary:
Weaknesses: little options in ground game. Dies at low percentage. weak grab game on non fast fallers, decent smashes, no projectiles.
Advantages. Strong aerial game and mobility. Strong edge game. Rest ('nuf said) Strong grab game on Fast fallers, really good recovery, crouch.
In comparison.
All top tiers have extremely good aerial game, ground game, recovery and endurance (for the most part; silly falco) The options top tiers have compared to jiggs are on another level, (which is why they are in a different tier)
Jiggs has a lot of great options, which allow her to do very well. Her extreme nature makes it so people who don't know how to fight her, take severe punishment but have difficulty giving it back. Jiggs unfortunately is not top tier. Her high placing recently comes from people mostly not knowing the matchup and getting punished easily as a result as well as two ridiculously good players. Truly they know their own characters and their opponents.
When it comes to the high tiers and top tiers, the tier list is amazingly precise. Remember that tiers do not represent your chances of winning, but the number and quality of the options you have. Discoveries and tactics of utilizing a characters options are what make the character "good." Additionally, matchups come into play, partly because of how your options match up against your opponents options, but more importantly because of how the way you use your options may not work against the options of a different opponent. This is especially important when it comes to jiggs, because you can't play jiggs how you play fox, and this much should be obvious.
Jiggs, is fine where she is on the tier list, banning her would arguably be the stupidest thing I've ever seen, and knowing how to play jiggs is more important to winning than how good jiggs is as a character.
Happy learning.
And this is stupid as ****.
So many jigglypuff johns. She's so frekin easy its dumb. You need practically no tech skill to beat high level jiggs. When it comes to matchups alone you have marth, fox, falco, falcon. So many characters **** her even frekin doc has stupid **** on her.
And characters like peach have good options against her.
If you really think jiggs is good enough to be banned I'm serious. Go play with her. ask your friend who plays marth to play you.
Since jiggs has such an advantage you'll win for sure. YEAH!
Pick jiggs in tourney and **** all the foxes even though fox is fast as hell, has lasers, and his upsmash kills jiggs at 60.
I'll tell you the secret to beating jiggs.
ready?
you sure?
play gay.
Space her out, spam lasers if you have them. Stop getting hit by stupid back air spam. and use the many tricks that half the cast has to punish her all day long. (fox up throw uair, doc grab to fair, marth to **** no matter what direction you choose)
And don't go to the edge like an idiot, get thrown off the stage to edge guard and ask why you lost.
Banning jiggs is like having banned marth because ken azen and m2k won tourneys with him.
People who complain about jiggs simply don't know the matchup. So the easy answer is learn it.
The fact that people don't know the matchup well is EXACTLY why she has been doing so well. Mango saves jiggs for special situations because everyone who places knows how to play fox and falco, but most don't truly know jiggs.
Why did armada get beat by SS and have such a hard time against hax?
He didn't know the matchup well. Which is understandable. How many good falcons are there in europe?
Hbox arguably top 3 in the nation refuses to go jiggs against me in tourney, he'd rather go shiek. Why is this when he never uses a secondary anywhere else?
Why? cuz I know the **** matchup. And my experience with shiek is less, meaning I have a harder time predicting and punishing as well as maximizing my options.
Now on to the question at hand. Because banning jiggs is so stupid it shouldn't even have to be addressed.
Is she top tier?
In my honest opinion, no. If she is, she is the bottom of top tier, but it's really hard to consider her options better than peach or even in the same league in terms of options as the top tiers. She has a lot of good tactics and edge game, but she is sooooo vulnerable to really stupid stuff. if you don't approach her like and idiot meaning you know how to get around aerials and camp her its really hard for her to do anything due to her lack of ground options. Try and camp fox and see what happens.
Jigglypuff is an extremist. Actually jiggs is so extreme that normally matches between juan and I are so stupid that one of us will be up by 2 stocks and the other will win because one little mistake and either of us dies. She's really easy to kill, but if you have sufficent prediction and execution, she can deliver massive amounts of ****.
Higher level play, comes down to prediction, choices and execution. You can be the most technical fox ever yet if your approach is predicted you'll find yourself getting grab rested, chaingrabed, forward smashed or *insert painful punish here* to death. Whenever i get ***** by jiggs or any character it's not because they are "broken" or top tier. It's because I was predicted, and the other player utilized their characters choices and executed them properly.
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
- Sun Tzu
Sun Tzu was a genius who was way ahead of his time and his principles apply to melee as well.
knowing yourself and the enemy is what it means to be good at smash.
If you understand your characters strong points and limitations, understand your opponents options, can predict them and are able to punish them (execution), I guarantee you, you will win no matter what character you choose. (example is when taj ***** half of the people at pound 4 with mewtwo.)
He understood the enemies' options, understood how mewtwo could punish and attack, and had the tech skill and reaction to do it. So he won, big surprise.
This is also why people can practice tech skill all day, master their character and still get wrecked. You know yourself, but you don't know the enemy.
Since prediction and execution are up to the player, the tier list which deals with the character should deal purely with what choices that character has, additionally that means what choices that character has in terms of survival and defense.
Jiggs has really good choices in terms of edgeguarding. Actually, her edgeguarding choices I believe are more than peach's falcon's and falco's and slightly below to on par with fox marth and shiek. Again, for this to apply you have to utilize these characters choices, e.g. fox's shine, shiek's needles, marth counter and A tap, etc.
Jiggs' choices on the ground are pretty sub par besides maybe well spaced f-smash. Her good point is her grab which on fast fallers can lead to combos or rest, but against most others unless near the edge proves to be just ok, when compared to marth's, shiek's, and fox's. This is one of the primary reasons why she is not top tier. As a character, her options are severely limited on the ground. This is why it's hard for her to approach.
Her choices come in the air. She has a great options in the air. Her aerials are extremely good, and in a match is what allows her to compensate for a lack of ground choices. Also her mobility in the air adds to her ability to utilize those great aerials. Multiple bairs i.e. wall of pain is one of her main options for defense and area control, (a type of approach). This works really well when people don't know how to break through the "wall" because it moves them closer to the edge where one bair can lead to an edge guard.
The infamous rest is her trump card and what pushes her up the tier list to high. The rest is an extremely good punisher when a player understands the enemy well enough to be able to predict and utilize it. It is highly situational, and a player being able to use rest well is a true testament to their skill. It's is not easy to rest like mango and hbox. There is no rest that always works, so if you get rested realize that it's because you screwed up, meaning you didn't DI, you did a stupid roll dodge, you didn't tech so you're getting jab ***** or you teched predictably. However this is a very good tool, but one that can be avoided and punished if the jiggs misses.
Jiggs additionally, dies at really stupid low percentages. As a character this is an advantage and disadvantage. This makes her difficult to combo, but also easy to kill at low percent. which is why combos that nearly always hit (fox uthrow uair) are by far her biggest weakness.
Her ridiculous recovery on the other hand makes it especially hard to gimp her like you traditionally would with most other characters.
her crouch is relatively new and interesting and is another option i notice juan use on alot of falcons and shieks because it lowers the area where she can be hit, which can lead to missed grabs to rest as well as limiting options for many characters who would shffl her in close proximity.
In summary:
Weaknesses: little options in ground game. Dies at low percentage. weak grab game on non fast fallers, decent smashes, no projectiles.
Advantages. Strong aerial game and mobility. Strong edge game. Rest ('nuf said) Strong grab game on Fast fallers, really good recovery, crouch.
In comparison.
All top tiers have extremely good aerial game, ground game, recovery and endurance (for the most part; silly falco) The options top tiers have compared to jiggs are on another level, (which is why they are in a different tier)
Jiggs has a lot of great options, which allow her to do very well. Her extreme nature makes it so people who don't know how to fight her, take severe punishment but have difficulty giving it back. Jiggs unfortunately is not top tier. Her high placing recently comes from people mostly not knowing the matchup and getting punished easily as a result as well as two ridiculously good players. Truly they know their own characters and their opponents.
When it comes to the high tiers and top tiers, the tier list is amazingly precise. Remember that tiers do not represent your chances of winning, but the number and quality of the options you have. Discoveries and tactics of utilizing a characters options are what make the character "good." Additionally, matchups come into play, partly because of how your options match up against your opponents options, but more importantly because of how the way you use your options may not work against the options of a different opponent. This is especially important when it comes to jiggs, because you can't play jiggs how you play fox, and this much should be obvious.
Jiggs, is fine where she is on the tier list, banning her would arguably be the stupidest thing I've ever seen, and knowing how to play jiggs is more important to winning than how good jiggs is as a character.
Happy learning.
holypho
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2010
- Messages
- 90
i used wonder when bombsoldier used to short hop to laser, is it possible beat this thing?!?!? And then ken gayed bombsoldier in those matches : /, but still a win is a win. But yeah jigglypuff is like short hop lasers, but in a ball with huge eyes.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
^I love this post
Nice.
Especially the Sun Tzu part.
dealth0072
Smash Journeyman
The counter for gay, is gay?
(insert homosexuality joke here)
(insert homosexuality joke here)
X1-12
Smash Champion
yusss Somebody else understands!
CC seriously changed my opinion on jiggs.
Jiggs is the diddy of melee.
Jiggs is the diddy of melee.
hungrybox
Smash Legend
this is why CC is my best friend
and has been for 8 years
good ****, crunch.
and has been for 8 years
good ****, crunch.
CaptainCrunch
Smash Ace
No prob bro
The Irish Mafia
Banned via Administration
I wish I was friends with CC
Velox
Smash Ace
Zulu was using Jigglypuff's crouch constantly to land rests and stuff back in like.. 2005 maybe..
good post though obviously
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