~ Ike Boards Bi-Weeklies Thread ~ Come in and discuss ideas! ~

[Nidtendofreak]

No Frigate as a starter. That stage has never been a starter, and never will be a starter. Ignoring when it's just Ike being used: on a grand scale it's more disruptive than Delfino. The ledge screws/hinders more characters then walk-offs and water do. There is also the fact that any stage that has the ability to KO you at any % by itself (not water spiking, but actually the stage hitting you at 0%, and killing you), should not be neutral. I don't care how unlikely it is, that's too strong of an event for a neutral stage.

I like the 9 starter system though. And use the MLG rules with it. If people are too lazy to learn the slight difference, or ask about the differences, they shouldn't bother playing.

 

[Nysyarc]

I like the 9 starter system though. And use the MLG rules with it. If people are too lazy to learn the slight difference, or ask about the differences, they shouldn't bother playing.

See my last post, there are no differences other than the tie-breaker (which I'm willing to change) and how the striking is done, which is a useless and confusing change. The only seeding we have going here is the PRs, which only goes down to spot 8, so if we did the MLG striking system you'd have to check every other player's stats to see if they're above you or not and then decide striking order based on that.

Or, you could just strike some stages and play some Brawl and save the unnecessary competitive way for major offline tournaments. If it's so easy to learn the new way, anyone who attends a MLG event can learn it when they get there, they don't have to learn it here.

I'm fine with no Frigate if it's what you guys want, our local scene uses the 9 starters I suggested and I've actually played my first match on Frigate several times after striking (as Ike, and I usually won). In my now extensive experience starting on and counter-picking that stage I can say it is not nearly as bad as many players assume it is.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Actually, the striking system change is not useless. I've seen several people say it ends up moving quicker that way. How is it confusing? It's still back and forth, just a different set of stages each time.

 

[Nysyarc]

Actually, the striking system change is not useless. I've seen several people say it ends up moving quicker that way. How is it confusing? It's still back and forth, just a different set of stages each time.

I'm not saying it's confusing for me, Jam for one says he would rather stick with the current 5-stage system. Not accusing him of being confused, maybe he has other reasons, but we can't assume everyone will click to things (or like/agree to them) as easily as others.

Also, the proposed striking system (3 first, then 4, then the last 1) goes in order of seeding yes? Well like I said, our seeding for the top 8 is clear (albeit it takes some deciding on), but beyond that it gets difficult and I don't really think it would be a good idea to post an ordered list of all the players attending from 1st to 22nd (or more later on).

Even if we're not using seeding, how then do we decide who strikes first beyond one player just saying "oh I'll go first". As for moving quicker, the way I would personally do it is to strike 4 stages myself first, since I plan on always striking the same stages anyways, and then let my opponent choose one from the remaining stages. That way they don't even have to think about striking, they just pick the one they think they will do best at.

I think leaving the method of striking open to whatever ways people want to do it is fine. Obviously we can't enforce proper striking anyways, it's online and people do their striking through Private Chats. I guarantee you a lot of the players in the first two didn't even strike for their starter, many likely just said "BF? Yah sure", or something of the like.

 

[theeboredone]

How is seeding hard to determine? If you're not on the PR, just take a quick look at the records on the first page, and just determine it by overall win% or something. Since we have a bigger PR panel now, we can actually have seeding for everyone.

Also, I believe the striking system implements a lot of strategy. Yes you can end up on a neutral, but if you play it right, you can get a favorable stage.

You're right, those previously mentioned rules don't apply and as far as the freezing rule goes, I doubt it will ever happen for the wrong reasons, since everyone knows this isn't something super competitive and based for funs sake. in fact, I have DC'ed with someone before, and we simply just reset our stocks and damage.

By denying practice, I mean that because of the stage strike system for MLG, it becomes pivotal to strike correctly, and making sure you ban the right stage. I have already suffered from lack of experience on certain stages, while others have been beaten pretty badly by me on other stages as well. I don't understand why it's so hard to implement these concepts into the weekly.

 

[Nysyarc]

How is seeding hard to determine? If you're not on the PR, just take a quick look at the records on the first page, and just determine it by overall win% or something. Since we have a bigger PR panel now, we can actually have seeding for everyone.

I'm not saying it's hard, it's just unnecessary and time-consuming, and most players won't bother with it anyways, so why make it a rule? It's great if you can have live coaches monitoring every set in an offline venue, but we can't do that here. We have to make realistically acceptable rules for everyone.

List the starters they can strike from, make it clear that each player gets to strike 4 of them, and end it there. No need for complication.

All is Brawl rules state that the player with a lower Skill rating strike one stage first, then the higher Skill player strikes two stages, and then the last stage is decided on by the lower Skill player. Nobody on AiB does this. I have never once in all my time on the ladder, striked in this manner. The same will apply here. They will strike because this is a competitive event (sometimes they won't, we can't stop that), but there is no need to strike in a particular order every time.

I realize striking implements strategy, that's why I favor the 9 starter system. I'm not against striking, I'm against a specific order for striking that will likely not be followed anyways. If you guys want to use that order, go right ahead, I will even use it with you guys if you really want to. But players who do not want to, do not have to.

 

[theeboredone]

Lol, don't mention AiB's rules.Those mods and refs don't even do their jobs. If no one is gonna enforce anything, then rules are gonna be broken.

You're right, some people will still opt to strike in some other fashion, but if they want to better themselves with Ike, they will understand that there is strategy when it comes to picking stages, they would strike in the proper order. Personally, I think it's BAD for them if they are used to striking poorly or not striking at all without thought or anything, and they get screwed later on when they have to actually attend a tourny. I don't know about any of you, but I actually take time to think about what I'm striking since I assess the pros and cons of not only the character I'm going against, but the player himself and what he likes to do.

Also it's bad for these people if they don't strike with each other, and if they end up facing me, they don't put much thought into striking and get screwed over, cause I ended up getting the stage I wanted.

 

[Nysyarc]

Gah, we're just going in circles.

Lol, don't mention AiB's rules.Those mods and refs don't even do their jobs. If no one is gonna enforce anything, then rules are gonna be broken.

I completely agree, it was just an example to show that online, there's nothing we can do if people don't obey a rule like that. If one of the two players insists on striking, then striking must be done, but if both agree to not strike, there's nothing we can do to stop them.

You're right, some people will still opt to strike in some other fashion, but if they want to better themselves with Ike, they will understand that there is strategy when it comes to picking stages, they would strike in the proper order.

The 'proper order'? MLG has hosted three Brawl tournaments I believe now, maybe two?

Spoiler

I haven't really followed it too closely.

Since when are they the authority on what the 'proper order' for stage striking is? How can you prove that doing it their way will yield more strategically accurate results than striking one at a time each or doing it my way of striking four initially?

There is no 'proper order', there is only a proper way to do it in general. That is for each player to strike the same number of stages so that one remains. Putting thought into the stages they strike is their own decision and is based on how seriously they take the game and their stage knowledge, it has nothing to do with the order the players strike in. I'm not going to put more thought into striking three stages initially than I am into striking one or four initially. The same stages will stand out to me as best or worst based on the character/player I am facing.

Stage striking is and always will be encouraged here, but we cannot enforce it, so this whole argument is moot. Myself, you and others will always use stage striking no matter who in these tournaments we are facing, and so hopefully that will encourage anyone who may not be striking to start doing it. Beyond that, there is nothing I can do besides put a note in the OP encouraging stage striking.

 

[theeboredone]

It's true MLG has hosted only 2 tournies, but I said this earlier, regions are already adapting this, because they understand the popularity and fame that comes with MLG. I would not be surprised if the MLG ruleset is the way to go later this year.

Whatever, I'm done with this argument as well. Whoever plays me, be ready to play by MLG rules.

 

[Nysyarc]

On a related note, I think I'm going to go ahead and make it a 9 stage starter (with Delfino, not Frigate). I'll include some info in the OP and make a note in the thread title as well.

 

[san.]

Ike is pretty good on most of those stages anyways, so I couldn't care less. Striking order only matters to me if someone strikes some of the stages I was going to strike for me.

 

[Nysyarc]

Ike is pretty good on most of those stages anyways, so I couldn't care less. Striking order only matters to me if someone strikes some of the stages I was going to strike for me.

That's basically exactly my point of view as well.

Also I underlined changes in the Specific Rules and Guidelines section of the OP. The 9 starters are now listed.

 

[theeboredone]

San, you're too good on any stage, you don't count.

My point is that some of us naturally play better on X stage than Y stage. I have learned my lesson well to never play San on BF, so I would never, ever consider even playing him there. He's too good on that stage. Likewise, Niddo almost beat me on PS2 in the first bi-weekly, cause of stage shenanigans.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Likewise, Niddo almost beat me on PS2 in the first bi-weekly, cause of stage shenanigans.

:D

Yays, I was almost successful! I am forcing you all to gain more stage knowledge!

 

[Teh Brettster]

Petition to shorten every post in this discussion to a TL;DR version.

Signature #1: Brett L Farrar

 

[jamlosingthegame]

What I meant by sticking to Nysyarc's explanation of stage striking was the procedure, not the stages. I don't mind about the stages. Whenever I brawl with my friends and/or brother I pick random and it consists of all stages except those under banned in the stage legality discussion thread. Add/take away any stages you guys want. Just tell me whatever is needed or updated and I'll follow along with it. All I really want to do is just brawl with you guys.

 

[Mr. Doom]

Petition to shorten every post in this discussion to a TL;DR version.

Signature #1: Brett L Farrar
Signature #2: Mr. Doom

Added my name to it.

 

[Nysyarc]

You guys just can't handle the epic debates between Bored and I. Those posts are flawless just the way they are and y'all know it.

 

[Raziek]

Sticking head in here to say Frigate >>>>>>> Delfino as a starter. Walk-offs, Water, Changing Blastzones and semi-permeable (sharkable) platforms are way more intrusive than lack of a ledge on one transition.

Craysyn knows what's up, Frigate works great in my 9-starter list for our bi-weeklies.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Sticking head in here to say Frigate >>>>>>> Delfino as a starter. Walk-offs, Water, Changing Blastzones and semi-permeable (sharkable) platforms are way more intrusive than lack of a ledge on one transition.

Craysyn knows what's up, Frigate works great in my 9-starter list for our bi-weeklies.

lol no.

Possibility of the stage OHKOing you = instant exclusion for being a neutral possibility.

And that ledgeless side can seriously screw over a large portion of the cast. Ganondorf, Zelda, Sheik, Olimar, Falcon, Ike, Marth, DK, Bowser, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Peach, ZSS, Mario, Link, Toon Link: they all need to avoid that whole side of the stage for about 50% of the match. How is that neutral? What about the huge advantage Kirby, MK, and Pit, and other characters with great gimping games earn? That's worse than a walk-off chaingrab or waterspiking, largely due to the fact those problems don't really overlap. Characters can do one or the other with one exception. And Falco's CG isn't going to go far enough to be a serious threat.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Delfino doesn't make it literally impossible for people to recover by cutting out almost literally the whole right side of the stage for several seconds.

And Delfino is not even as bad as PS1, but people keep that as a neutral and ALWAYS have.

 

[Nysyarc]

Sticking head in here to say Frigate >>>>>>> Delfino as a starter. Walk-offs, Water, Changing Blastzones and semi-permeable (sharkable) platforms are way more intrusive than lack of a ledge on one transition.

Craysyn knows what's up, Frigate works great in my 9-starter list for our bi-weeklies.

I stand by this opinion, and not out of bias for my local home boy, I would argue against him if his opinion were different too, because I strongly believe Frigate is a decent stage for Ike and a viable stage as a starter. But we can debate this in a different thread at a later time. Like the guide thread once we take the stage guide more in-depth.

Obviously you guys prefer Delfino so we'll go with that for the starter here.

 

[Senliten]

Signing up:

Senliten / 3780-8679-6765

 

[Heartstring]

i dont like the 9 starter stage thing, but meh ill try it out, i liked the previous one because both my favourite stage and my usual CP excluding battlefield are in the neutral list on here.
but, if it was 9 starter stages, this is as fair as its gonig to get.
8 of those 9 were used as a neutral at some point, and delfino is reasonably fair considering its ike dittos.
by the way, migth be late for the next one, coming back from wales, probably be on shortly after it starts though

 

[Ussi]

Confirming I'll be there, I like frigate over delfino... Frigate's ledge is overrated i'n practice. In the end it's who exploits it best. I actually timed a bthrow on sharkie as the platform rose.

...but w/e..

Add wifi waiting room as a counterpick too

 

[Nysyarc]

Add wifi waiting room as a counterpick too

Lol, I would but not everyone can CP it, in fact maybe only you can. So it wouldn't exactly be fair.

 

[theeboredone]

What happen to Cristina? Did she go on vacation or did I scare her off?

 

[IkeFiend]

No, I'm still here...

PS, Bored, that day you tried entering the room with WildARMS, I think he uses the tag Dorf... But yeah, I was in there, lol. I saw "BORED is trying to enter the room" and was like, 'lulz.'.

Edit: Or maybe it was lowercase... But I don't remember much...

 

[theeboredone]

What room? Wildarms? Who's Dorf? I must have been trying to play someone else...not this Dorf character.

 

[IkeFiend]

Then it looks like someone was stealing your name then.

 

[Heartstring]

Then it looks like someone was stealing your name then.

this is a crime i thinks.

as for frigate, even though its better for ike if they are a more ground orientated ike, as nysyarc is.
as for me, do not want

 

[Slaps]

add me on but i can't play any matches til i get my wii back which is idk when XD lol... just add my name and thing on there.

 

[Ussi]

Sharkie so mean not adding wifi waiting room as a stage D:

Also sharkie we need to discuss hacking your wii for brawl soccer.

Anyone who uses stacksmash I can provide you with my GCT if you don't know how to do it. Or if you don't mind using stacksmash... Just need an SD card like for homebrew and such

 

[jamlosingthegame]

I wish I could hack my Wii, but I was told that the new Black Wiis have the latest software or something that cannot use Homebrew. (I'd also be afraid of hacking it because I might mess up, destroy it, and no more Wii until I, myself, can afford one.)

 

[Nysyarc]

Give it a few months, maybe even less, someone will figure out how to hack the new line of Wiis. I'm not gonna bother getting a new Wii or updating mine though. The only thing updates are good for is getting rid of your current version of Homebrew... literally, lol.

Edit: And Ussi, I have Homebrew already obviously, but I just can't figure out how to use cheat manager to work the code for the WiFi Waiting Room stage. I have the code but no idea what to do with it. I may find a thread about it cause so far no one has really been able to explain the process too well, lol.

 

[Ussi]

Stacksmash requires no hacking of the wii directly. It's indirectly with the SD card and completely safe to the wii. I can send you a .rar file and you just extract it in a blank SD card and you're set to go. After that I can teach you how To hack musics files you want if you decide to take up this offer

 

[Nysyarc]

a .rar file

Riiight, that was my problem, cause I only have Macs. I'll just need to find a way to do it with Homebrew. From what I understand the only programs capable of reading a .rar file are .exe files, which of course a Mac can't run, lmao.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

http://www.ehow.com/how_2091902_open-rar-files-mac.html

>_>

 

[Ussi]

What about .zip?
I have an idea, I'm gonna send you my GCT and you put it where it belongs. Cause my GCT was made i'n code manager

I'll be home i'n an hour sharkie so I'll hit you up on AIM then k?

 

[Nysyarc]

http://www.ehow.com/how_2091902_open-rar-files-mac.html

>_>

Key words 'from what I understand', lol. I'm too lazy to look for anything like that when other options exist. Besides, I don't really like downloading applications that don't come straight from the Apple website.

What about .zip?
I have an idea, I'm gonna send you my GCT and you put it where it belongs. Cause my GCT was made i'n code manager

I can take zip files, that would work. You'd have to show me a screenshot of what the SD card root should look like for the codes to work or something though. Right now I have Homebrew files in there so I'm not sure how that would mix with Stacksmash.

Sending me the .GCT also works, do you still have my e-mail address? And again you'd need to let me know where to put it.