Ignore.

[Xyro77]

I noticed in your Peach write up Xyro that you didn't mention her fair.

That deserves a paragraph all by itself

I didnt think i needed to if the the player followed what i typed. Besides, the slap is just her KO move and its got decent priority, we all knew that. Its kinda like marios f-smash, we all know its his kill move.

BUT! if you feel it NEEDS to be up there, write the paragraph and ill hang it up there just for you.

Xyro, if you like, I will have the olimar write-up done for you by tonight. What type of format would you like it in?
Just give me the titles/captions like "ratio" "pros / cons" ect.

Note: I might go through the past couple pages and search "olimar" just to see what comes up, but I'm plenty good with writing right now.

Additionally I'm up for playing anyone ^^; (I'm looking at you xyro D: )


~Fino

WOW thanks Fino. i just did the pkmn trainer one and added cherry64 article on kirby up. If you could follow the format on the front page i would love you forever!!!!!

 

[Fino]

Anybody wanna write up the olimar article? im writing the sonic one now.

Xyro, if you like, I will have the olimar write-up done for you by tonight. What type of format would you like it in?
Just give me the titles/captions like "ratio" "pros / cons" ect.

Note: I might go through the past couple pages and search "olimar" just to see what comes up, but I'm plenty good with writing right now.

Additionally I'm up for playing anyone ^^; (I'm looking at you xyro D: )


~Fino

Well, I just checked out the OP for formatting. This is what I have. I probably could've written more, but I'm going to take a nap. If you'd like more I'm happy to do so.

Chances of winning:

Xyro – 75-25 Olimar

What does the enemy think:

Fino- 70-30 Olimar

How does Samus do win/well:

In short, you don’t. This match-up is all about pressuring Olimar. Olimar is going to be throwing pikmin from the beginning of the game to the end of the game, meaning you’re going to have to match his projectile spam with your own. Zair is key into this match-up. Zair is hard for olimar to get around, and on smaller stages you can space and pressure olimar with Zair, and there’s little he can do about it. Note: Beware olimar’s small size, if you throw your Zair out too high he can throw out an fsmash and trade hits with you.
The best way to kill Olimar is go for the gimp; however, this task isn’t easy. In short, good olimars don’t get gimped, but the trick is all about pressure. Olimar is most susceptible to being gimped at low percents. The weakest spot for olimar to keep stage control is on the side of the stage. Use your projectiles to try and pressure him to the side, poke your way through his spam with Zairs, get him off the stage and just keep poking him, once you hit him out of his second jump he’s just about gone (unless he’s up high). Don’t get greedy in edge guarding. His upB has a small bounce on it, and he may use it to try to get on the stage if you’re holding the ledge. Bait the upB bounce and punish his landing on the stage (warning not lag heavy).
When olimar approaches Samus from the air shield and punish with an OoS upB. Though a nair isn’t safe for olimar to use in this match-up, keep your shield up until the smash comes out and punish with a grab.
You can weaken olimar’s spam by constantly pressuring him at mid range (just outside of zair range). The closer you get to olimar the more he switches from pikmin toss to c-stick. Keep olimar off his feet with Zair. Zair, zair, zair; be as gay as possible with zair spam.

What should Samus watch out for:
Pikmin. They will be flying out everywhere. Things to know about olimar’s pikmin
1. Yellow pikmin have massive hitboxes. When a yellow pikmin is used and space properly you will almost always lose.
2. Pikmin toss beats Samus’ spam until the pikmin die. With the exception of red pikmin (yellows for charge shot) pikmin will take damage from taking your attacks. Reds 9% Blues 14% Yellows 9% White 4% Purple 15% - These are the stamina of pikmin. Knowing that pikmin will die after taking so many missiles means he has to pluck pikmin. Plucking pikmin puts a hole in his spam. Take this opportunity to get mid range with him and mess him up with Zairs.
3. Having a pikmin on the latch zone of your canon means that your charge shot will not work. Make sure you note where pikmin are latched onto yourself (if you have them) before firing a charge shot.
4. Charge shot will not work if olimar is on the ground, even if you’re an inch away. Olimar’s counter to charge shot is fsmash. The pikmin jump will in front of olimar and take the hit. If olimar is on a platform aim the charge shot so that you hit him with the upper half of the charge shot (the midline should be at or below the platform). Olimar will always think he can beat it with an fsmash. Aiming it so that the midline of the charge shot is at or slightly below the platform makes it look like and fsmash will stop it; however, when the fsmash comes out it will go slightly over (mindgames).
5. Note that purples have knockback when tossed. It’s a simple fact, but after having pikmin thrown at you for the 510689712458th time during a match purple pikmin toss will mess you up. Note that purple pikmin toss is a combo starter at low percents.
Watch out being above olimar. Olimar’s uair will beat out your dair, and his usmash is broken. Olimar’s purple pikmin usmash will kill samus at ~80-90% (assuming it’s fresh) with moderate DI.
Olimar’s grabs are deadly, but if you keep up with Zair camping it shouldn’t be TOO much of a worry. Olimar can grab combo Samus to about 50. Also, his grabs kill. Blue pikmin bthrow is deadly but has one flaw… just hold up. The simple motion of holding up on a blue pikmin bthrow will make you last an extra ~50-60% The throw is that retardedly screwed by DI. However a purple pikmin uthrow is the opposite. There isn’t much you can do in terms of DI, but the grab range on purples is so short and so slow that they won’t grab you often.
Nair+cstick – traditional olimar combo. Nair to usmash or dsmash is a true combo. It’s a good set-up due to priority on nair. Watch for it, nair’s won’t be safe around Samus at all, so make sure you can punish with either a Zair, usmash/tilt, missles, or whatever is applicable in the situation.
Edge guarding – good olimars have mastered the ability not to get gimped. Everything you throw at them will be either SDI+DI’d, whistled, aerial dodged, purple pikmin tossed, uair’d, anything and everything they have in their arsenal to get back on stage. Do not just think because you grabbed the edge that they’re dead. Also note that his pikmin chain is a powerful stage spike (depending on the pikmin). The pikmin at the tip of the chain affects the trajectory you will take. Purples and whites (if tipped) and reds will spike you down hard. Reds (If aimed improperly) and blues will spike you at a 45 degree angle Note: it is possible to footstool olimar if you are hit by this. Yellows will knock you above stage. Olimar may also try to bait you into rolling up early. Know that a full pikmin chain will still tether just above the lower blast zone. Make sure you have invincibility at the 45 degree angle that he can spike you at, and also make sure you hang on until he dies.

What stages should Samus CP/Ban:
CP – not really sure. I would say something like smashville. You want a small stage with no platforms. Olimar also has trouble on Japes. Note that some Olimar’s will completely gay you on Japes by camping the right side (only punishable if olimar makes a mistake). Do not pick Rainbow Cruise. Olimar is good here despite popular belief that he isn’t.
Ban – Ban Luigi’s mansion, Battlefield, or Lylat.


EDIT

]
WOW thanks Fino. i just did the pkmn trainer one and added cherry64 article on kirby up. If you could follow the format on the front page i would love you forever!!!!!

Lol, way ahead of you son ;D

<33 xyro (wifi some time?)

Also, I wrote it under the assumption the person reading it isn't a complete moron and has competency of playing samus... so it was less spoon feeding and more just looking about the important aspects =-/ Sorry if there's dumb stuff or olibias, but I figured it would go through your own filter before going into the OP ^^;
About half way through I realized I wish I knew more about samus. lol.

~Fino

 

[Xyro77]

DAAAAAAANG1!!!!!!


That is PERFECT. You did good,my boy. Thank you.


and if anybody wants to add anything, say it now.

 

[Zori]

hmm the times i played xyro i usually start out agressive the get ***** by a mixture of zairs and downsmashes then i camp and win

brawl

also samus is better on battlefield then olimar if not even don't ban this stage

 

[Xyro77]

Ok guys all the character shave been updated except for sonic. Does anybody wanna go back and collect the info and put it into the format? PLEASE.

 

[Hive]

yea the olimar matchup is pretty crazy ^^... but between his vulnerability off the ledge and spams being able to semi keep up with his pikmin(when you use the zair to not only hit but knock out his pikmin as he throws them) (and sh dairing when they are on you) the matchup is at least semi plausibly winnable for samus (but not nearly in her advantage)... at least in my exp.

 

[Cherry64]

yea the olimar matchup is pretty crazy ^^... but between his vulnerability off the ledge and spams being able to semi keep up with his pikmin(when you use the zair to not only hit but knock out his pikmin as he throws them) (and sh dairing when they are on you) the matchup is at least semi plausibly winnable for samus (but not nearly in her advantage)... at least in my exp.

I played an Olimar the other day, it was intence, first two stocks it was basically tied, pivot grabs a bit of pikmin throws but mainly aggro physical, then he camped all last life, I did 32% to him before dying

it is plausible to do yes

 

[NO-IDea]

I MM'ed PS's Olimar (he goes by Logic now for some reason, meh.) Although, stupidly, it was also my first match of the day so I wasn't warmed up =(. Ended up losing 0-2. We did friendlies afterwards and I won friendlies 2-0 though. Then the tourney started and we had to stop =/.

The match-up isn't as hard as one would think. Staying within z-air range, not using missiles, playing a war of attrition and being patient make fighting Olimars less stressful.

 

[LanceStern]

A level 9 Olimar is ridiculously tough. Everything outprioritizes, and they know my moves before I throw them out!

 

[NO-IDea]

If you're patient, I'll have the Sonic write-up by tomorrow. Tonight, however, I drink.

Cheers!

 

[Xyro77]

If you're patient, I'll have the Sonic write-up by tomorrow. Tonight, however, I drink.

Cheers!

fair enough. Enjoy!

 

[Cherry64]

If you're patient, I'll have the Sonic write-up by tomorrow. Tonight, however, I drink.

Cheers!

Lol I out of money from doing that last week. stupid bars

I'd give this match up to sonic, 60-40 unless it's a good sonic then it's like 65-35

 

[NO-IDea]

SONIC!

Chances of winning:

CHERRY- 65-35 Sonic's favor (if the Sonic is good)
XYRO- 60-40 Sonic’s favor
NOID- 55-45 Sonic’s favor

What does the enemy think:

55-45 Sonic’s favor

How does Samus win/do well:

NOID- Well spaced z-airs work wonders in interrupting Sonic’s approaches, going through spin dashes both ground and air. Be warned, however, that mistakes in timing the z-air will often result in punishment due to Sonic’s insane speed. Not to mention the Sonic player will usually result to power shielding and spin-dash shield canceling once they realize you’re good at spacing and z-air out prioritizes.

Charge shots will also work to hinder Sonic’s approaches. Simply charging and shooting/using Samus’s Oos options will make short work of spin dash. As for when Sonic runs in for the grab/dash attack/hyphen smash, a well-timed charge cancel>throw can stop that. Bombs are okay-ish for halting a Sonic’s approach. However, exercise caution when using bombs or Sonic’s speed will punish without mercy.

Dash grabs work well to punish Sonic early in the match if he plans on spin dashing or running too much. Retreating d-air works well too. From there, f-air and n-air are nice follow-ups. Once Sonic resorts to jumping earlier in their spin dash/using aerial approaches, z-air begins to shine again… and then, as said earlier, they’ll finally mix in good old power shielding and spin dash cancels a lot more than usual.

D-tilt comes out faster than most of Sonic’s close-range options and D-smash helps create some distance between Samus and Sonic. F-smash should be used as punishment against Sonic’s f-smash and to kill at the sides of the stage. Jab combos can be successful against Sonic as well, but use sparingly. If the Sonic player realizes and takes action on the short hit-stun of the first jab, expect that buffered attack to be power-shielded and Sonic to retaliate with his own jab. Probably the safest follow-up would be d-air because of its shield stun and knockback, although don’t hesitate to use other buffers if the Sonic player isn’t familiar/aware of Samus’s jab.

Samus’s b-air has a larger hitbox than all of Sonic’s aerials and does nicely as a kill move. You can also use b-air as a punisher to Sonic’s spin dash when he jumps behind you. N-air does nicely to punish Sonic’s air dodges as well. Don’t rely on Samus’s other aerials too much in this match-up however as Sonic’s aerial game is probably just as good as Samus’s, if not better.

What should Samus look out for:

Gf2tw- Sonics grab game is amazingly superior to you. He has more chances to grab, more damage, less punishable, and better followups. If you get grabbed, don't expect just 12% from the U-throw, but expect to be hit by something else after it. But that's more a mindgame and isn't that relevant to the matchup. D-throw can be teched immedeatly in front of Sonic, but your only option is to jab or he can shield. Sonic's U-throw kills at 200% or so and sets up for juggles, but you're light so shouldn't be hit by more than one U-air

darkNES386- My personal opinion is that of all the characters that can play keep away with projectiles, Samus is the easiest for Sonic to deal with. This is primarily because Sonic's ground speed allows him to beat out homing missles from the air and because Sonic can spin under super missles.

Sonics like to edgehog grapple recoveries and force a more wreckless recovery. On that note, Sonic's spring pretty much rules out any easy gimps at lower percents from Samus' lovely dair. It has invincy frames too near the start so even if you think you finally guaranteed a hit on Sonic... chances are he'll spring right through you.

NOID- Because Samus’s popular recovery is her grapple beam, the shorter invincibility frames leave her highly susceptible to Sonic’s b-air stage spike. It’s fast, not very punishable and just hurts those who like to repeatedly tether or sh back onto the stage. Sonic’s other main kill move will be f-smash. Just watch for when you think he may go for the opportunity, shield and punish accordingly.

Realize that missiles will not help in this match-up. Save the homing missiles for when Sonic is off stage, but only after you’ve charged your charge shot. Don’t bother chasing with z-air as Sonic’s recovery is versatile and hard to predict; landing the d-air off stage will rarely occur.

Sonic’s throws are easy to DI, but be warned about the u-throw. Sonic can play several mind games with this, choosing to follow-up with u-air... or wait for you to land and pivot grab to u-throw again. At higher percentages, Sonic can still follow-up with u-air with use of his spring… and follow you with b-air if you air dodge and hit you during your vulnerable frames. You can make use of Samus’s floatiness and even bombs during this point… whatever it takes to get Samus not above Sonic.

Sonic has kill moves, but, like Samus’s problem, landing them can be difficult if you play a good defensive game. Again, watch out for the f-smash as well as d-smash and b-air. B-air is the least punishable of the three but can be spaced easily with z-air. Sonic’s u-air kills as well; don’t get caught above him.

What stages should Samus counter pick/ban:

NOID- BAN Final Destination. Samus’s projectile game isn’t as strong as it is in other match-ups, giving Sonic too much room to take advantage of here. CP stages with platforms: BF and Norfair come to mind. Lylat is iffy because the tilting stage will make z-air less effective. RC is also iffy since Sonic’s recovery and aerial game is nothing to be made fun of.

 

[Xyro77]

You son of a *****!

THAT WAS PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANK YOU! IN FACT, I THANK ALL OF YOU THAT WROTE UP aN ARTICLE!!!!


New characters are comin up TODAY!!!!!

 

[Brinzy]

Zelda match-up is 45:55 Samus or 40:60, depending on the Zelda that plays you... unless you play one of the *******es from a while ago who think she beats everyone.

Let's keep it simple: zair > Zelda. Use this for everything. She can't punish this at all and she's so tall that it's so easy to hit her with this.

You want her far away from you or in the air (anywhere but below). You do not want her in your face. To give you an idea as to how quickly her moves come out:

Dsmash - Frames 4-5 (5 is the max distance)
dtilt - Frames 5-11
Usmash - Frame 6
Bair - Frame 5 (about frame 8 when you consider jumping)
Fair - Frame 8 (11)

These are her deadliest options out of shield. Fsmash is also a very good attack that you need to watch out for. If Zelda is in your face, just back away from her and zair her. I see Samus players staying in her face and trying to combat her, but this is how you lose the match. Just back away. You can also take advantage of her with your projectiles, because she has no safe way of dealing with them unless you set yourself up for a reflection. Charge up a neutral B and fire it whenever she uses Din's. Edgeguard her aggressively.

Not really sure what else there is to say.

 

[GwJ]

ROB

I think this is 55-45, 60-40 at most in ROB's favor.

I've played Crews a few times and, to be honest, Samus ***** ROB unless they're past the Zair range. With ROB's obscure body, he's hit by projectiles and zair all too easily. Dair > UpB is also a major pain for ROB. That said, ROB still can camp and when up close, ROB beats Samus with his fast grounded moves.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Pikachu:

Chances of winning: 60:40 Pikachu's favor

What enemy thinks: (Have not discussed samus)

How does Samus do well/win

Samus will have to rely on her spacing game. When pikachu gets in, get him out as quickly as possible with up-b OOS and maybe some SH dair comboes. However, pikachu's projectile is quite good also, so be careful not to tack on useless %. Most pikachu's will be recklessly charging in, maybe with the aid of a t-jolt, since most people know what samus's camping game is made of. However, this leads to easy punishment with SH dairs, d-tilts, and up-b OOS

Pikachu's recovery has too many options for you to normally get a spike on the pikachu, so that method of killing is out the door. However, pikachu is still relatively light, so you should be killing him around 130% (Pikachu's Momentum cancels are really good) F-smash outranges everything pikachu has besides F-smash and D-tilt.

D-tilt is a great move against pikachu. It outranges every attack but F-smash, and that is too slow to come out. In this matchup, i think you should sacrifice d-tilt as a kill mvoe and use it as a damage racker and a spacing tool. Pikachu's will not expect it to come out so fast and have such a large range, it can be quite overwhelming.

Pikachus will try to use their small size to get around your projectile/zair use. You cannot SHMC a smash missile and hit the pikachu if they duck...it just doesn't work. Weak missiles and zair, however, can really keep pikachu away if they don't really know what is coming. This slow % adding can really hurt the pikachu since he is relatively light.

What to watch out for:

Pikachu has comboes, lots of comboes that can be improvised. However, through use of your shield and up-b OOS, you should cut down on the pikachu being too aggressive. However, if you eat a FF fair from the pikachu, get ready to be hit about 5-6 times with u-tilt, uair, more fairs, and nair (finisher).

Pikachu's game is mostly bait and punish, so the use of our T-jolts help all of our game. Not only can it tack on extra %, but it can make you shield (run in for a grab) or put you in enough hitstun to combo you.

Pikachu's killing potential is surprisingly amazing. All of these are kill moves, starting with the strongest: Thunder (Sweetspot hitbox, where it hits pikachu), F-smash (100% near the ledge), U-smash (120%. normally accompanied with a thunder to kill you off the top), Nair (130 near the ledge, 110% off the level), D-smash (140%. Easily DI'd out of if you SDI upwards), and u-tilt (160%. normally accompanied by a thunder) Some thunder setups with u-tilt and u-smash are extremely difficult to get out of. 75% of the thunder set ups WILL hit you at high %, assuming the pikachu doesn't mess up. You should be wary at high % of being near the pikachu, because he has a plethora of moves that pack a punch.

What stages samus should counterpick/ban

Pikachu is good on a lot of stages, he only has 2 bad ones. Those are brinstar, and luigi's mansion. Although i used to play samus, i never really knew good counterpicks...so if those 2 stages are good for you, CP them all day. Pikachu's best stages are Norfair, Delfino, Frigate, and RC (besides the neutrals). The best neutrals are smashville, FD, and Battlefield (for stage striking purposes).

Hopefully this helped. I never played a pikachu as samus so it was hard to write it from the samus's perspective.

 

[DelxDoom]

Hard to kill ROB, otherwise, he's a big target. His laser will probably disrupt some of your game, watch out for it and try not to eat too many. He's got a much better ground game than Samus but again, zair/fair/screw attack are big in this. Definitely watch out for his nair and punish that. His fair is really good also.


Pikachu's fair has its weaknesses. It's really really good when you don't know them...
Um, if he does the full fair before landing, it'll have punishable landing lag. It also has low priority and range in general, watch out for them falling on you with it.

 

[illinialex24]

Serris has a good opinion on this, its 60-40 Samus, closer matchup but definitely Samus's favor. U-tilt is pretty decent in this matchup compared to others but Samus wins. Not gonna go in much detail but I'll find Serris's post from a while back.....:

Samus:

Odds of Victory: 40 - 60 /

Match-Up Overview:

This matchup can either be insanely easy or insanely difficult for Jigglypuff. It really depends on who you're playing.

Samus players who space themselves well can make controlling the air very hard for you. Her projectile game is one of her greatest assets, but every one of them is outprioritized by pound. Her z-air, however, still gets through, and can cause Jigglypuff major problems when attempting to approach from the air. Despite this, approaching from the air remains Jigglypuff's best option when fighting Samus. Her quick air speed and overall maneuverability offer her a tremendous advantage at close range, giving her the ability to rack up damage quickly and take advantage of Samus's overall slow aerial speed. This doesn't mean that Samus can't escape, as her neutral-air attack comes out very quickly and can abruptly put an end to Jigglypuff's reign of terror.

Jigglypuff's light weight and floatiness make it easy for Samus to chain moves together for combo attacks. Her ground game is also inferior in that it lacks range, and is somewhat slow. This makes it easy for someone like Samus to punish you with a projectile or grab.

Don't get me wrong. Jigglypuff still has a good chance of winning this. Pressure Samus with close-range aerials, combo her with grabs, pound her projectiles, and move in for the kill. The z-air factor and superior ground game put the matchup in Samus's favor, but as with all match-ups, it's subject to change at any time.

(I played the author of this guide and a Jigglypuff secondary as basis for my analysis. And, for the record, I don't hate Jigglypuff. I just thought the quote was funny.)

Still think its like that, 60-40 because Samus ***** the far game and can keep Jigglypuff at bay there for a bit, and its fairly even when they are in close quarters.

 

[DelxDoom]

Do jiggs players really want to pound our missiles? They'll just get hit by a zair.

 

[Metatitan]

Not really, Jiggs would probly be shield approaching a samus. But yeah samus advantage.

 

[gallax]

its terrible when pikas comment more on this matchup on the samus boards than the pika boards.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Well you set up 4 at a time, and we are stupid and don't ask for them to contribute.

So...samuses, contribute. We are discussing samus here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236664

 

[Cherry64]

Do jiggs players really want to pound our missiles? They'll just get hit by a zair.

i'd liek to pound our missiles, the homing ones right??

Ahem, Jiggz will possibly go even with samus if they know the amtch-up other tahn taht she will have the advantage.

 

[tha_carter]

Hm, i played Holy and Buenob last tourney, and went 1-2 vs both of them. Im not sure where they rank in the world of ROBs but theyre both good. I can probably write something on that.

And pikachu is my second main, i can definately contribute to that.

 

[Hive]

I think the rob matchup is...
samus v. rob 50-50 about even

 

[mountain_tiger]

Personally, here's what I think:

Zelda: 55-45 Zelda's favour
ROB: 55-45 ROB's favour
Pikachu: 60-40 Pikachu's favour
Jigglypuff: 45-55 Samus' favour

Zelda: SoR summed it up pretty well. In terms of long range, Samus wins. Samus' projectiles are better than Din's, and Samus' Zair is deadly to Zelda. But Samus gets destroyed by her in close range. Keep your distance whenever possible.

ROB: Big target makes him easy to Zair and projectile pressure, but at the same time he camp pretty well, and beats you at close range.

Pikachu: Small target that gets around you easily, and has good combo potential. On the plus side, you have considerably more survivability than him. Again, try and keep him at long range.

Jigglypuff: Light as hell, you have little trouble killing her, but her aerials can be annoying if you don't know how to deal with them.

 

[Hive]

-> revised a lot of my metaknight analysis on page 11 if anyone's interested.

 

[Throwback]

Hive, in regards to MK ledge-guarding with Nado, you should be able to hang from tether then punish when MK returns to stage.

 

[Hive]

actually that doesn't really work as much as we'd hope unfortunately... mk will not nado blindly, he will wait until he sees you try to shorthop or come up, and there is not too much lag time between him stopping and nadoing again. He can actually get the nado to hit you somewhat down from the ledge too, and if done predictably he can come in and claim the ledge. I tried short tether stalling a lot to try to get him to throw his tornado in early so I could approach onstage in between, but mk is pretty good about this.... its still one of her best tactics in this case though since basically her entire offensive ledge game is eaten ; ;

 

[Throwback]

From the perspective that you can't get past a reactive MK (since he just nados), the other thing you can do is projectiles from the ledge - if he's playing the waiting game it's a good way to force him to be proactive. Then you can fake a missile, AD->tether (as MK tries to punish) and get back up.

 

[Syde7]

So, guise... I tried to post some ROB related info in here whenever you dewds were talkin' about us, but I didn't really see any discussion on him when I followed the link. BUT, the ROBs are talkin' about you- and if anyone would like to swing by to put anything in, feel free!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241451

 

[sasook]

Hello all, we Link mains discussed you guys a while back. The thing is, a while ago, all the Links moved to AiB after a huge fight with the mods. We did ask a few Samus players to come comment on the matchup when it was being discussed over there, but we realize not everyone has AiB accounts. So we came to a compromise - once the writeup was complete, we'll ask the SWF boards of said character to see if it's accurate from their perspective.

Without further delay, I give you the Link board's analysis on the matchup, and my request is for you guys to critique it. If you feel like something is wrong, or is a misconception, please do say so. We just want accurate information.

Link's Advantages

* Can reliably KO Samus.
* Can compete with Samus in terms of camping.
* Has more range and effectively out-spaces Samus.
* Link's weight and good DI make it very difficult for Samus to KO with her weak smashes and even her Dtilt.

Samus's Advantages

* Due to her floaty physics she can escape Jab Cancel>Grab>Dsamsh>UpB and punish accordingly.
* All of her aerials auto-cancel which makes comboing very easy with Samus.
* Longer Zair and can be used as a WoP.
* Three projectiles that put her on par with Link in terms of camping.

This is probably going to be one of the more even match-ups you're ever going to play as Link. In a sense Samus is Link with a better recovery and longer Zair and Link is Samus with KO moves and a shorter Zair. With that said Link can space Samus extremely well. Even if Samus has a longer Zair almost all of her close combat moves have little or no range at all, with the exception of her Ftilt. Samus is primiarly going to stay at a distance from you and camp back as you camp her. Expect many Homing Missles and weak Charge Shots as she slowly approaches you. Samus has a decent combo game and her auto-canceled aerials help this out very much. Keep in mind that your Zair destorys her missles and weak charge shots, the same can be said for Samus's Zair on Link's projectiles, as well as a bomb being able to stop fully charged shots. When Samus is nearing your comfort zone use your superior range (Fsmash and Jabs mostly.) to kick her back out and continue to camp her. Samus is not very easy to gimp offstage and you should probably stay away from here there altogether. She can fire projectiles from offstage at you extremely well and has the option of bomb jumping to regain and momentum or distance she might have lost by doing this. Her UpB has great vertical range and her Zair has great range as well. Expect Samus to be recovering low with her UpB. However, Samus can gimp Link. With her recovery options she has no problem coming offstage and hitting you with her quick Nair or lenghty Zair to keep you out long enough to edge hog or just flat out gimp you. Samus lacks in KO power. Her Fsmash has terrible range and against an opponent like Link who is heavy and has excellent DI makes KOing with this move almost impossible. The same can be said for her Dsmash but with better range. Her Usamsh is basically the same as ours, a damage racker. Link has much better options on the ground with a powerful and long reaching two hit Fsmash as well as a quick and powerful Dsmash. Don't forget about Dair since it can KO Samus rather early. Link can get the KO's onstage but has a hard time gimping Samus. Samus can gimp Link but has a hard time getting the KO's onstage. Link and Samus both do a very good job in camping on another. Sounds pretty even to me.

Where should I stage CP Samus?
You're best bet here is probably Norfair. Link's projectiles are not limited so horizontal movements only which makes camping Samus a lot easier with the aid of the many platforms. Take the high ground here and bombard her with bombs and Dairs. The low ceiling is also great for early Dair KO's. The various platforms and lava aid in Link's recovery making it harder to gimp him.

I'd really appreciate if you guys commented. Please and thank you

 

[DelxDoom]

Samus vs Link is a cool matchup for Samus because if you are aware of Link's tricks, you can avoid most of them easily. Watch for arrows, they are fast.

Everything else (Link's jab stuff) is capable of being avoided on reaction after you learn it. Try not to get hit by bombs and stuff. Samus is faster than Link and Samus's fsmash actually kills Link since Link's recovery is kinda short.

Link is strong, but simply not fast enough. Samus has to punish stuff. Link has difficulty vs spaced Samus zairs while Samus has less vs Link's.

 

[sasook]

Ok, noted. Though I disagree about the fsmash thing. See, Link players have broken DI - fact, not exaggeration. Why? Because DI is our recovery. Heck, we can eat a fresh Snake ftilt at 160% at the ledge of FD and survive. So...I can't really agree about the fsmash thing.

However, I will definitely take note of what else you said.

IIRC, the Samus players who commented were King Chaos and possibly Rohins (don't remember, but I know he plays with Deva). Xyro and Tudor may have commented but I don't think they've played a pro Link before.

 

[DelxDoom]

Right; I forgot to say how to avoid jab stuff with Samus.

SDI lulul. Samus is really floaty and if you space at away from really close to Link, you should be able to avoid stuff. Especially jab jab grab >.> jump awaysies!

Dtilt really doesn't kill Link, gotta use it for damage dealing.

Gotta edgeguard Link as much as possible. Push him away with them nairs/fairs/zairs, projectiles and spike if possible.

basically. lol.

Samus is fast enough to give Link a hard time, Link is slow enough to give Samus a sorta easy time. It's mostly in the confidence and approach though.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Blame Xyro77

 

[colddegree]

Thank you Squirtle is the pokemon i have the most trouble with

 

[NO-IDea]

Ok, noted. Though I disagree about the fsmash thing. See, Link players have broken DI - fact, not exaggeration. Why? Because DI is our recovery. Heck, we can eat a fresh Snake ftilt at 160% at the ledge of FD and survive. So...I can't really agree about the fsmash thing.

Honestly, it doesn't matter how broken your DI is (although the term "broken DI" in itself is misconstrued) if you can't get back to the stage. Samus's ledge game is too good for Link. Once you're off the stage, we'll keep you off. I mean, we don't even have to spike you; we can z-air, we can edgehog and punish your laggy landing. Killing isn't the problem in this match-up for us. There's a reason Link is in lower echelon of the tier list: his recovery.

Your spacing game may be good, but we can match it, if not beat it. The reason being that our z-air ***** more than yours, our missiles come out faster and go out longer (meaning we can fight at farther distances so as not to get punished by your z-air.) And our weight helps us survive longer than most match-ups and our recovery ensures such survival.

With that being said, the only thing you've got over us is priority close-range. And even with that, other than your jab cancels, all your moves have punishable lag. Both characters rack up damage quickly but Samus will have an easier time with killing.

I wouldn't put this match-up at 50-50 at all. I'd put it in Samus's favor. However much is up to discussion. I'd put it at 60-40.

 

[AvoiD]

Falco boards discussing Samus MU, input appreciated.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=246133