Ignore.

[Legendary Pikachu]

How existential can you get?

ZSS should beat Samus. None of Samus' aerial options can really beat ZSS if she's spacing right. The moment Samus jumps, she should be ready to eat a dash attack, because it will hit before most of her aerial options come out (nair is an exception, but doesn't have the range or knockback to be used as a reliable approach). ZSS's job is to space just out of ftilt/dtilt range, and punish anything Samus does with dash attack or grab. Samus's job is to stay grounded, and space dtilt and ftilt. She can feel free to spam if she has room, but be aware that most people should be able to PS homing missiles cold.

When the gap is closed, Samus is easier for ZSS to juggle than vice versa, but Samus can zone from below a much better. Either character will have difficulties getting back to the ground.

Samus will most likely be dying later than ZSS, and she's difficult to edgeguard, because missiles and zair are more effective against airborne opponents, not to mention she has so many recovery options. ZSS on the other hand will need to be careful, as Samus's offstage game is very strong, with a powerful spike, and a lot of offstage mobility.

ZSS can outright KO Samus before Samus can outright KO ZSS. Samus has always been weak to off-the-top KOs and ZSS's uair has been known to KO even Snake off the top under the right conditions, so Samus will need to avoid being above ZSS at high percents. ZSS will also be looking to use bair to KO at high percents. Unfortunately for Samus, most of her KOers require a little set-up to land, and they are generally less powerful than ZSS's (it makes no sense, but there you have it).

Overall, I believe ZSS should be winning most of the exchanges, and has a higher damage output. If she's patient, and spaces properly she should ultimately be able to win out over Samus.

Samus = Chance
^ because of the gimp factor... lol.

It's been a while since we've hung out. I want to see how everyone's come along over the summer and I missed you at the billfest. Ed was owning his bracket quite well (epicly funny) and lost to 2 respectable opponents (Duo's Fox and Devin's Marth). I'd like to see how you (ZSS) and Ed (Samus) fair against one another nowadays ^_^. My ganon is still wierd.... :D

 

[shlike]

youre right magik... i suck

 

[Vorguen]

hah as if you play any matchup differently shlike

LOL remember against Marth's he runs away and spams Side-B the entire fight. haha

 

[Magik0722]

I declare this the new RGV thread

 

[Cringe_IF]

Just a small thing worth mention: DK is a character where zoning is important. (don't know what zones are? http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=16108)

Some particular zones I like to watch out for are:

Bair zones
Super Armored Giant Punch
Auto combos (dtilt -> downb)

Also, I disagree that D3 is THAT bad. Kill me if you want, but it's never been like.. that FREAKING hard for me. Maybe I just haven't played a good Dedede xD

Zair beats Toon Link's projectiles, and so does CS. Watch out for his Xyro combo and Zair/Aerial combos. Besides that, you outrange him, out projectile him, and can out melee him (jabs/tilts).

Samus does outrange him a little (except alot in the case of Zair), but it doesn't actually help Samus all that much either in this MU, since TL actually can out-melee Samus and pressure her up-close. Samus doesn't out-projectile TL either (other way around) and he can tail her *** unlike Link. This is also very rare, but I think TL actually kills better than Samus, too. He's also short, so Zairing him to hells end is harder/less effective than it is against Link.

That said, he is a little on the light side, but I would more suggest trying to gimp or spike him more than landing the KO as a Samus, since he can run and attack around her like the speedy little devil he is. TLs should be unpredictable off-stage to avoid the spike, and be a little cautious to approach her from the air due to the god-given gift that is Samus' Zair. You may wanna stay grounded a little more than usual as a TL in this MU, but I don't know - give it a try. I do think Samus can hold her own somewhat inspite of all these disadvantages.

40-60 in favor of Tink at high levels of play(in which all MU's should be considered), imo. Possibly 35-65 if the Tink knows the MU well enough, but I'll give Samus the benifit of the doubt.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

One thing is for sure: someone named Samus is going to win this match-up.

 

[Sosuke]

I've only played a few good Samus players, and only 1 was in a tournament set. >_<

This is one of the only match ups where TL wants to avoid mid-range combat. Samus' Zair is just better then TLs here. Longer reach=advantage. Because of this, you Samus players will want to stay in mid-range against TL. I'm pretty sure TL can outcamp Samus, so yeah. Avoid being far away. For killing, I'd say TL has the advantage. He kills earlier and has more kill moves. Samus screws over TL's recovery.
Idk what else to say.

 

[KillerJawz]

Cringe, Zair can hit a crouching Kirby with ease o.o, its easy to hit TL, but I agree wth your other points, and that matchup ratio is pretty generous towards Samus, but then again, I havn't played many TLs so im not to sure, ah well, thanks for the contributions everyone, keep them coming <3

 

[noradseven]

Samus = Chance
^ because of the gimp factor... lol.

It's been a while since we've hung out. I want to see how everyone's come along over the summer and I missed you at the billfest. Ed was owning his bracket quite well (epicly funny) and lost to 2 respectable opponents (Duo's Fox and Devin's Marth). I'd like to see how you (ZSS) and Ed (Samus) fair against one another nowadays ^_^. My ganon is still wierd.... :D

If I ever have time for a tourney in the area Im available too, IDK any good samus players I know some of her cool stuff jab lock, some of her missle d-air combos and stuff, so I think I know what to look out for but I have yet ot fight it, I would guess its around 6-4 in ZSS favor, I really don't see how samus is going to deal with us if we ever get her in the air, and she has a tall hitbox so Air to ground pressure isn't too bad.

 

[DKwill]

So I hear you guys are discussing the DK vs Samus matchup? I have a bit of experience in playing Rhyme's Samus in tournament. My best advice would be the obvious- camp him. DK has a really hard time getting around perfectly spaced z-airs aside from approaching with a SHAD. I remember my first stock Rhyme camped me to about 224%, which was about right bc at that point any move with relative knockback would kill me.

The absolute best way to wreck a DK? Bait him offstage, get him greedy and make him go for the d-air or f-air off stage, at which point if you saved your jump you can avoid it and d-air him. DK dies at close to 0% from that due to such a terrible vertical recovery =/

At the same time, an unexpected spike off stage can be devastating to Samus as well. I ended up winning our set due to aggressive approaches such as d-airing off the stage into Samus' up-b. As risky as it sounds, it has the same effect that Snake's cypher has on MK's shuttle loop- the d-air will spike samus, yet the hitboxes of the screw attack pop DK back up so that he can still recover. So just be sure to always recover low and close to the edge and you should be fine off stage.

Homing missles work well as a bait while DK is recovering, bc most people will do anything to try to avoid getting hit by one, even though they don't do much damage. You can take advantage of that and punish accordingly. If DK is approaching you with a running up-b and doesn't space it well enough, you have more than enough time to grab him bc Samus' grab range well out ranges the point at which the Spinning Kong will connect. In general, I have found that DK's up tilt works very well as a wall against Samus, so watch out for that.

If I think of anything else I will let you guys know, or you can ask me bc I have a lot of matchup experience =)

 

[Cringe_IF]

Cringe, Zair can hit a crouching Kirby with ease o.o, its easy to hit TL, but I agree wth your other points, and that matchup ratio is pretty generous towards Samus, but then again, I havn't played many TLs so im not to sure, ah well, thanks for the contributions everyone, keep them coming <3

I should've known Samus' Zair was just that good. xD

 

[DKwill]

( reposted bc I ended up getting the last post the page before =/ )

So I hear you guys are discussing the DK vs Samus matchup? I have a bit of experience in playing Rhyme's Samus in tournament. My best advice would be the obvious- camp him. DK has a really hard time getting around perfectly spaced z-airs aside from approaching with a SHAD. I remember my first stock Rhyme camped me to about 224%, which was about right bc at that point any move with relative knockback would kill me.

The absolute best way to wreck a DK? Bait him offstage, get him greedy and make him go for the d-air or f-air off stage, at which point if you saved your jump you can avoid it and d-air him. DK dies at close to 0% from that due to such a terrible vertical recovery =/

At the same time, an unexpected spike off stage can be devastating to Samus as well. I ended up winning our set due to aggressive approaches such as d-airing off the stage into Samus' up-b. As risky as it sounds, it has the same effect that Snake's cypher has on MK's shuttle loop- the d-air will spike samus, yet the hitboxes of the screw attack pop DK back up so that he can still recover. So just be sure to always recover low and close to the edge and you should be fine off stage.

Homing missles work well as a bait while DK is recovering, bc most people will do anything to try to avoid getting hit by one, even though they don't do much damage. You can take advantage of that and punish accordingly. If DK is approaching you with a running up-b and doesn't space it well enough, you have more than enough time to grab him bc Samus' grab range well out ranges the point at which the Spinning Kong will connect. In general, I have found that DK's up tilt works very well as a wall against Samus, so watch out for that.

If I think of anything else I will let you guys know, or you can ask me bc I have a lot of matchup experience =)

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't know much about ZSS/Samus. I was talking to Snakeee one day and told him I had quite a bit of trouble with it personally but figured I was doing it wrong. He told me it's actually very close to even, if not 50:50 then 55:45 ZSS and that Rhyme gives him a run for his money as well.

It's really hard for me to get him to post about stuff sometimes but I'll try.

 

[Mr9]

i have spent a lot of time playing against a sonic main who knows all of his advanced techs. and i wouldnt be surprised if he was the best sonic player in my region.

but i would have to put the match up at a 50-50 because he doesnt have an easy time winning and when he does it always comes down to that last hit so i wouldnt say that sonic has an advantage.

 

[WindMajor]

I second Samus, and main Toon Link. I haven't gone against another TL, but I know how each one works. Somethings that Samus should watch out for are Toon Link's bair strings, Nair, Uair, projectiles (I'll go over that in a minute), and Zair.

Samus' Zair definitely outranges TL's Zair, but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't fear our Zair. Just like your Zair, we use ours as follow ups since they have no landing lag. We usually follow it with Nairs, but if we're going for the kill, expect a hyphen smash.

Toon Link's projectiles will pretty much destroy you if you're at long range. Don't let TL camp. He can full hop all of his projectiles and make it across Final Destination (which by the way, you should ban or stage strike). TL always has a bomb at hand, so you should try to avoid it as much as possible.

What Samus can do, however, is use her homing missiles to approach. Jump up in the air and throw a couple of homing missiles, and follow it up with a Zair. Punish our FSmash, Ftilt, Dsmash, UpB Dair, and missed Grabs with your grab. Pummel and throw. SPIKE TOON LINK! Not only is it epic, but it should be easy since Toon Link's UpB is predictable.

I'd give the match up a 40:60 or a 35:65, since TL beats Samus at long range, and has a teeny tiny advantage in short range. Actually, I'm going for 35:65. It's a fun match up though, IMO.

 

[Rhyme]

If I think of anything else I will let you guys know, or you can ask me bc I have a lot of matchup experience =)

<3 Will. We should exchange matchup experience again sometime.

He told me it's actually very close to even, if not 50:50 then 55:45 ZSS

Samus has options vs Zero Suit that do not include Perfect Shield -> [insert attack here], so Zero Suit has very many options to watch out for. Samus is also good at breaking momentum, which is important because Zero Suit is a big momentum character.

 

[ph00tbag]

One thing is for sure: someone named Samus is going to win this match-up.

If you go by Brawl's reckoning, this match-up is 50:50 because they're the same character (even Sheik/Zelda and the pokemon get their own stats, but not Samus).

Samus = Chance
^ because of the gimp factor... lol.

She certainly has a chance. The match-up is far from unwinnable. Don't underestimate ZSS's recovery, though.

General Question: Can ZSS flipstool off of bombs?

 

[IsmaR]

She can not. They more than likely interrupt her if she tries to. And I agree, Zero Suit Samus' recovery is not to be undermined.

I've been going Toon Link a lot recently, one thing I've noticed is that his U-tilt is deadly, quick, powerful(good KO move at high %), and **** against bigger characters. Personally, I feel like all of his aerials are good against Samus, save for mindless D-airs.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

You've gotta use Zair for outranging Toon Link. I dislike his bombs. CS goes through arrows and boomerang but bomb just cancels :/ You've gotta be smart with the projectiles or Toon Link will overcome you.

I overestimate Zamus' recovery and I still think it sucks. >;D

 

[IsmaR]

You've gotta use Zair for outranging Toon Link. I dislike his bombs. CS goes through arrows and boomerang but bomb just cancels :/ You've gotta be smart with the projectiles or Toon Link will overcome you.

The same could(or should) be said about pretty much any character. Samus' projectiles are deadly in the right hands.

I overestimate Zamus' recovery and I still think it sucks. >;D

And that is why you lose to me most of the time

3thiswasa*****toquote
s

 

[Smash G 0 D]

But like.. I've never even played your Zamus xD

 

[KillerJawz]

So I hear you guys are discussing the DK vs Samus matchup? I have a bit of experience in playing Rhyme's Samus in tournament. My best advice would be the obvious- camp him. DK has a really hard time getting around perfectly spaced z-airs aside from approaching with a SHAD. I remember my first stock Rhyme camped me to about 224%, which was about right bc at that point any move with relative knockback would kill me.

Yeah he's right. Camping DK is a probably the best way to defeat him since he outranges us in melee and just **** right flattens us like that, but keeping our spacing up makes it too difficult for DK.

The absolute best way to wreck a DK? Bait him offstage, get him greedy and make him go for the d-air or f-air off stage, at which point if you saved your jump you can avoid it and d-air him. DK dies at close to 0% from that due to such a terrible vertical recovery =/

Yup just as I pointed out <3. Do DKs really use fair? o.o. Ive hardly seen it used off stage, they normal do them at the edge from what Ive seen, but meh.....

At the same time, an unexpected spike off stage can be devastating to Samus as well. I ended up winning our set due to aggressive approaches such as d-airing off the stage into Samus' up-b. As risky as it sounds, it has the same effect that Snake's cypher has on MK's shuttle loop- the d-air will spike samus, yet the hitboxes of the screw attack pop DK back up so that he can still recover. So just be sure to always recover low and close to the edge and you should be fine off stage.

Ah yes forgot to mention this. That's real nice to know, especially since we can stay off stage longer then DK, we need to make the most of the time we spend there.

Homing missles work well as a bait while DK is recovering, bc most people will do anything to try to avoid getting hit by one, even though they don't do much damage. You can take advantage of that and punish accordingly. If DK is approaching you with a running up-b and doesn't space it well enough, you have more than enough time to grab him bc Samus' grab range well out ranges the point at which the Spinning Kong will connect. In general, I have found that DK's up tilt works very well as a wall against Samus, so watch out for that.

On Yoshi's Island DK's uptilt is even more ****. It seriously owns us on that plaform, and because of that **** ghost spiking DK at lower %s isnt as easy.

So yeah, that was some awesome information man, thanks.

Im actually going to change my mind from 55-45 DK to 50-50.

 

[TLMSheikant]

I think the TL vs samus matchup is 70-30 TL maybe 65-35 TL. Too badly outcamped, kills better and is better at close range. Samus on the other hand, has a better recovery, can gimp TL decently with her dair, is heavier and has more range with her zair. Like Twink pointed out, even though your zair has more range, that doesnt mean u shouldnt look out for our zair. Btw, Twink october 3rd I want u to use samus against my TL and see how bad the matchup is first hand XD.

 

[KillerJawz]

I think the TL vs samus matchup is 70-30 TL maybe 65-35 TL. Too badly outcamped, kills better and is better at close range. Samus on the other hand, has a better recovery, can gimp TL decently with her dair, is heavier and has more range with her zair. Like Twink pointed out, even though your zair has more range, that doesnt mean u shouldnt look out for our zair. Btw, Twink october 3rd I want u to use samus against my TL and see how bad the matchup is first hand XD.

Actually that would be some very nice info you could provide after the match, it will at least give us an insight. At least I hope the discussion isnt over by then ;.;

 

[WindMajor]

I think the TL vs samus matchup is 70-30 TL maybe 65-35 TL. Too badly outcamped, kills better and is better at close range. Samus on the other hand, has a better recovery, can gimp TL decently with her dair, is heavier and has more range with her zair. Like Twink pointed out, even though your zair has more range, that doesnt mean u shouldnt look out for our zair. Btw, Twink october 3rd I want u to use samus against my TL and see how bad the matchup is first hand XD.

.....Samus is my Lag Warrior. Lag is TOO SCARED to even phase my Samus!

I use her online only.

 

[Xyro77]

FYI, im playing vex(best bowser) this weekend so i can write up a article on him by sunday.


Does anybody wanna write the article for any of the chars we are discussing thus far?

 

[stealth3654]

Hey everybody!

The Sheik boards are currently discussing the Samus vs. Sheik match-up here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226389&page=63.

Any contributions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[LucasGrey]

i want info on zss specifically how to slow her down.

 

[KillerJawz]

Lucas just read a few posts back, alot of the information provided does give hints on how to slow her down.

After watching some guys in the tourny matches, I found that Zamus will constantly play with her uair, so in theory, if you can get the ground BEFORE her (hard to do I know, but possible), you have a real advantage since iirc, although we have not got the best options for people above us, Zamus does not have good options for people below her, except to evade away, a nice bait to utilt her will definatly slow her down, just try to get her above you.

 

[Xyro77]

Originally Posted by KillerJawz
Yoshi - Advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyro77
Yoshi - Advantage

I have played THE BEST YOSHI in tx(and top 3 in the USA). His name is bwett. Wether its low tier events or regular events or friendlies. I have beat him and consistantly beat him. He is NOT BAD at all its just yoshi vs samus is so HORRIBLE for yoshi its not something he can over come.

Eggs are slow and easy to powershield. They combo into nothing and do not kill untill OBSCENE %s.

Egg roll can be stopped by CHARGE shot and zair. Hell, you can even grab/dair/smash it.

His approach i ALWAYS bair to tilt or bair to jab. Some time they will jump in and airdodge to some thing else. UP+B wrecks ALL of his approaches. If you are lazy, jump away from it and fully charge shot it. Or if you just wanna be a mean face, jump away and zair, yoshi has no move that beats zair(unlike meta or snake)

His shield. Not only does it have longer ending animation than regular shields, yoshi can do NOTHING out of shield, Oh and his powershield, IF he has one......its 100% worthless.

Yoshi cannot CG or grab release us into anything.

The ONLY 2 good stages for him vs samus is halbert and delphino.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhyme
Olimar - Even
Kirby - Even
Zelda - Advantage

I agree with Zelda losing to us. No arguments here.

Olimar vs Samus is a ****ing joke. IF PLAYED even slightly campy, we CANNOT WIN. ALL pikmin beat missles and CS. Zair is stopped by purples. His grabs are better than our AND they kill. He kills us earlier than we do him and hi has LOTS AND LOTS of good levels, some of which turn samus levels into bad ones.

Kirby i can agree with. He can be considered even.

 

[Cherry64]

Mario is slightly in our advantage or even IMO. his recovery is not good at all, very low altitude gain from his Up B which means he will not pull a link and drop several feet below and then use UpB, which leads us to our main advantage, Z air.

once offstage, If you are close enough to beat him to the ledge, z air him twice and he's gimped. Don't use missiles as he'll cape 'em and that helps his recovery so it wont' do anything but mess up your positioning.

Our physical combat here is on par if not better than marios, they use Bair and fireballs as their main moves, which you can powersheild/sheild and fireballs you can jab those (depends on how far away he is, if he's close I prefer jabbing them as they cancel out and samus buffers another jab if you mash a after hitting the fireball). his defensive tactics are silly as you can spam homing missiles, sure he can cape them but they go so SLOW that they most likely won't even reach you if your spaced properly.

Z air shuts down all of his aerials and he CANNOT cape us if we already have z air out I do believe, some mroe testing might be in order but I don't think the cape will flip us around once z air is out at maximum length.

the only way this MU gets tough is if mario gets in your face and applies constant pressure, find ways of dealing with this and your set. Mario's double jump and firing two fireballs isn't hard to deal with either, pretty sure you can jab both of them, or shield then OoS usually he goes in for a grab, then an u air and all that good stuff. if mario can't approach, then he's screwed, if he gets off stage, he's screwed. Mario's are like link, they're recovery is SDI. The cape and UpB does help (far better than links) but without SDI he will be gimped.

Play more mario's guys, it's not a hard match-up.

alright I've had my say lets here all of yours

 

[IsmaR]

Yoshi - Completely agreed with Xyro. I find it easy to gimp him, adding to it. I've won incredibly close matches(173% lol) by stage spiking with Up B.

Olimar - Even, give or take. Key is to not camp at all(gasp). Samus DOES have moves that can outrange/prioritize his moves. U-tilt, D-air, D-smash and N-air are all very useful, and Screw Attack can be used in certain situations. If you get desperate and spam projectiles/Z-air, then they'll walk all over you with Pikmen. I find U-tilt extremely useful in that it kills Pikmen in most, if not all situations(Purple Pikmen are an obvious example), will cancel certain moves, and still end up hitting him.

Mario - I'm a bit iffy on it, but I'd say we have the advantage, if just barely. His recovery is definitely his weak point. Most Mario's will lead with B-airs, U-airs, or Fireballs, and tend to throw in N-airs and tilts to catch people off guard. His smashes are quick, and more intended to get you out of his space rather than to kill you, unless it is F-smash, or at high percent/near the ledge/ceiling. Overall, pace yourself(never run straight at him unless they aren't expecting it), be smart with your projectiles(always mirite) and watch for his quick responses.

 

[NO-IDea]

Yoshi- I agree with having the advantage

Olimar- Camping and aggressive methods do not work. Olimar is too good. It's not as if we don't know why either: better projectile spam, better mid-range, and strong KO moves with decent speed and outranges all of Samus's options other than throw. (Their, f-smash, which has virtually no hurtbox unless you're next to Olimar, outranges our f-tilt. That's ridiculous.) Can't phase me on this MU, I've played too many friendlies/MMs with PS to argue otherwise.

Mario - I can see it being even. We tend to forget that while Mario's recovery is weak, he still can decently approach, if not through fireballs and b-airs, then through power shielding his way through. And grab combos stack heavily on Samus. Decent KO moves, decent aerial mobility and attacks that come out faster. All we've got is range and gimp (which is a lot of course but it doesn't make up for too much.) Ranging from 60-40 Mario's favor to 50-50. Probably right in between. Play Boss. GG

 

[Cherry64]

Yoshi- I agree with having the advantage

Olimar- Camping and aggressive methods do not work. Olimar is too good. It's not as if we don't know why either: better projectile spam, better mid-range, and strong KO moves with decent speed and outranges all of Samus's options other than throw. (Their, f-smash, which has virtually no hurtbox unless you're next to Olimar, outranges our f-tilt. That's ridiculous.) Can't phase me on this MU, I've played too many friendlies/MMs with PS to argue otherwise.

Mario - I can see it being even. We tend to forget that while Mario's recovery is weak, he still can decently approach, if not through fireballs and b-airs, then through power shielding his way through. And grab combos stack heavily on Samus. Decent KO moves, decent aerial mobility and attacks that come out faster. All we've got is range and gimp (which is a lot of course but it doesn't make up for too much.) Ranging from 60-40 Mario's favor to 50-50. Probably right in between. Play Boss. GG

Play Xyrohins. Back atchu. if Xyro learned the match up I garentee it'd be even or in samus' favor. if you know he's going to powerhsield through, grab him, don't keep firing screaming "He's coming in to fast!" only works in the movies.

BUT it is your opinion so thank you.

 

[NO-IDea]

Xyrohins. lol

I think even Xyro/Rohins would agree the best Mario out there would not say this is an even MU. (And his perspective of the MU matters just as much as ours.) I'm merely stating it could be close to one.

 

[Cherry64]

Haha not during this, give valid points and I'll debunk them. You might have trubs fighting little things, if you had issues with mario you prolly do with ness as well, I'm sure Tudor would agree with me on this one.

 

[NO-IDea]

The valid points were already given. It was not as if you refuted them either. "Just learn the MU now." Mario is just a better character against Samus than Samus is against Mario. Mixing in grabs, or at least Samus's grab, does not suddenly alleviate the problem or the MU and make it her favor. Unless you're landing that grab every time they successfully get into your space.

If it's actually providing you with such success, it could be a difference in skill level or experience, not a display of character MUs.

 

[KillerJawz]

Eggs are slow and easy to powershield. They combo into nothing and do not kill untill OBSCENE %s.

Correct, eggs are absolutly nothing, and I myself find that simply run > shield deals with them nicely. Zair breaks through them with ease and when Yoshis do ledge cancelled eggs, we can just charge up a nice CS and fire a few homing missles since the eggs just will not hit.

Egg roll can be stopped by CHARGE shot and zair. Hell, you can even grab/dair/smash it.

Its also nice to note that his Egg roll is actually quite slow, so you should not be getting hit by it.

His approach i ALWAYS bair to tilt or bair to jab. Some time they will jump in and airdodge to some thing else. UP+B wrecks ALL of his approaches. If you are lazy, jump away from it and fully charge shot it. Or if you just wanna be a mean face, jump away and zair, yoshi has no move that beats zair(unlike meta or snake)

Xyro has hit it dead on, bair is Yoshi's best approach BY FAR, he can BREAK THROUGH YOUR MISSLES with it, so look out (As Xyro said Up b, preferably OoS will **** him hard). I also find that bombs hurt his bair real hard since it forces him to either:

- Spotdodge/Roll (Punish with a CS, higher % = Free KO)
- Shield (Easily punishable with a grab, remember Yoshi can do NOTHING out of his shield)

I would really like to discuss Diddy Kong, simply because he's put me out of tournys to many times ;.;

 

[Xyro77]

I wrote up something for the mario boards a while back. Its kinda old but it still is true....





In texas we have this played named STILTZ and his low tier main(and 2ndary) is Mario. Hes my number one experience against mario(aside from wifi trash).


Mario has some thing MOST characters DO NOT HAVE......a GOOD projectile. Marios fire ball is key in this match up it to spam samus untill he can get close. Samus spam can only be stopped by perfect powershielding(and even then, i have ways to deal with that)and with GOOD SPAM. To defend against your spam i must STOP my spamming and once i stop spamming the field of battle favors mario cause now nothing is stoping him from coming at samus with full force.

If i attack your shield, you have MULTIPLE options.
Drop shield and
1. jab to grab
2, jab jab jab
3. jab to down smash
4. be lazy and UP+B oos

If my shield is SLIGHTLY WEAKENED you can tornado and it shield pokes. Samus can combo well but marios does more damage and it can be done MUCH easier than samus can. Heck, if you just wanted to be a homo you could space bairs all day long and there is little we can do even if we powershield.

Your cape is only usefull if we CHARGE SHOT while you are close to us. If you do it far away we have time to dodge/shield it/ jump over and zair you.

Samus will get most of her kills on mario by zair gimps and spikes(even if you cape the spike you will die) so all you need to do is make a POINT of staying in the middle of stage and you will do great.

oh one last thing! the MOST IMPORTANT THING!!!! ALmost all samus mains kill with d-tilt and charge shot and f-smash and spike. 99% of the time, fsmash and charge shot are used so much they wont kill early so that leaves us with d-tilt and spike....if you stage on stage alot, spike is kinda worthless so now you just need to deal with d-tilt...now that can be too hard can it? The point of bringing all o fthis up is, mario can kill with more moves and have alot easier time doing it than samus can. I personally believe mario is the 2nd best low tier(ness being first) and it really shows, hes just too **** good.

Stages, when playing samus please ban FD and pkmn 1 and/or any LARGE STAGE. By doing this, you FORCE us to try and spam in close quaters....lol that dont work for samus.

IMO, if you CP jungle japes you will increase your chances of winning by nearly double. Remember how i told you d-tilt will most likely be our MAIN kill move cause its almost always fresh? LOLOLOLOLOLOL japes wont let samus kill upwards untill like 150-170% with good DI. And since the walls are shorter on the right and left side than most stages AND mario kills horizontally.....dear lord i might start crying.

 

[Cherry64]

while all of that is true for mario versus samus, you made it sound much worse than it is. Yes mario is a good low tier, but we have a few large stages to choose from, all we need from him is space and the battle is that much easier