Ignore.

[Rhyme]

His approach i ALWAYS bair to tilt or bair to jab. Some time they will jump in and airdodge to some thing else. UP+B wrecks ALL of his approaches.

Olimar vs Samus is a ****ing joke. IF PLAYED even slightly campy, we CANNOT WIN. ALL pikmin beat missles and CS. Zair is stopped by purples. His grabs are better than our AND they kill. He kills us earlier than we do him and hi has LOTS AND LOTS of good levels, some of which turn samus levels into bad ones.

I've played PRiDE both in tourny (singles and doubles) and in friendlies (singles only). This was a few months ago before he quit, but he was a fairly respectable Yoshi (in my opinion).

I agree that Zair punishes Yoshi and his approaching hard. I tend to mix in other options so that I don't have to leave the ground. My biggest problem is the eggs. Yoshi has too many angles to throw them at. He can throw them low out of a SH (which makes them difficult to punish), or high (which forces you to shield). After a few egg mix-ups, I can expect either a running grab or a Bair. Yes, either is punishable. But, statistically speaking, Yoshi will deal more damage to me than I will to him over time, and Yoshi's kill percents are even with Samus' (if not lower).

Is there something else that I should be looking for? The way I have always won this matchup is by closing distance and boxing Yoshi. It would be really nice if I could just camp him instead. =/

Olimar: I've MMed and friendlied PyronicStar. At Apex, I played BlackWaltz in about five friendlies, then beat him 2-0 in a livestream MM the following day (Samus/Olimar, Waltz placed 9th in singles).

I used to main Olimar, so my Samus game is geared toward preventing what I would want to do as the Olimar player.

For one, throw homing missiles. If the missile isn't there, Olimar can close distance. He can come in for a grab, a Fsmash/Usmash, or an aerial. He can pressure you in general. His good options when there is a missile in his face are to either shield or throw pikmin, neither of which is particularly detrimental to you.

Second, Ftilt for spacing. At max range, Ftilt->SH will keep you from being punished by just about every option that Olimar has. The SH is also great utility, because you could either retreat->Zair or approach->Uair/Fair. Retreating Zair is rather obvious. Uair can work if you consider that Olimar has no grab armor. Uair/Fair->jab is a relatively safe option vs Olimar's shield for this reason. If his shield is strong, mixing up after landing will be more important. If his shield is low (see below...bad planning skillz x.x) then Dsmash can poke and set him up for additional damage.

Third, bombs as a mixup for retreat. Olimar's ground movement is slow. If you play your bombs right (and have port priority), then you will have a relatively safe retreat. Also, if you're within Olimar's grab range (which, let's face it, you don't want to be), bomb becomes very punishable, so be careful.

Fourth, Zair his shield. Every Olimar that I play, I nearly break his shield about twice per match. If you're camping long enough, Olimar's shield will eventually become useless. Which reminds me: you don't need to shield, and you don't need to worry about the damage from pikmin. Except for the occasional Nair/Uair to get them off, I like to take the damage. If I don't take the time to get the pikmin off me then I get to pressure Olimar's shield more, and I think that is more valuable in this matchup. (Of course, if you're on Battlefield and have five pikmin latched onto you, there's nothing wrong with upBing so that Olimar can't use them for five or six seconds).

That's a basic summary of how to work with Olimar's camping game. I'll get deeper into the matchup if/when some one presents a more specific concern.

Our physical combat here is on par if not better than marios, they use Bair and fireballs as their main moves, which you can powersheild/sheild and fireballs you can jab those (depends on how far away he is, if he's close I prefer jabbing them as they cancel out and samus buffers another jab if you mash a after hitting the fireball). his defensive tactics are silly as you can spam homing missiles, sure he can cape them but they go so SLOW that they most likely won't even reach you if your spaced properly.

Z air shuts down all of his aerials and he CANNOT cape us if we already have z air out I do believe, some mroe testing might be in order but I don't think the cape will flip us around once z air is out at maximum length.

the only way this MU gets tough is if mario gets in your face and applies constant pressure, find ways of dealing with this and your set.

I can't seem to get spacing down vs Mario. Whenever I do Utilt/Ftilt/jab, I seem to get hit by one of Mario's aerials. I just see his Uair/Bair as very difficult to work around. Fireballs are a different story, I just Zair them no problem, but the aerials are weird. =/

Mario can Cape the Zair hitbox to turn it around until the Zair hitbox disappears.

I have trouble keeping Mario out of my face. He is somewhat quick on his feet, quick in the air, and has a great grab game. I get mindgamed into stuff in my shield, and have a hard time picking an option that will get me out of my shield without being punished. Do you have some kind of recommendation?

...Olimar stuff...

Overall, pace yourself(never run straight at him unless they aren't expecting it), be smart with your projectiles(always mirite) and watch for his quick responses.

Occasionally, if you're smart about trapping Olimar, you are able to go on the offensive. I think this works because Olimar doesn't like it when people get up in his face, and because his means of getting you out of his face are quite telegraphed (and thus sometimes possible to work around).

I've played Pierce, Kirinblaze, and Cj in the Mario matchup. All three of them are great at pacing, and I find it difficult to keep the match at a speed that is less advantageous to Mario. What kind of pace do you guys attempt to set for the Mario matchup?

when Yoshis do ledge cancelled eggs, we can just charge up a nice CS and fire a few homing missles since the eggs just will not hit.

I also find that bombs hurt his bair real hard

I would really like to discuss Diddy Kong, simply because he's put me out of tournys to many times ;.;

I have had some luck with sweetspotting Zair to trade hits as Yoshi tries to regrab the ledge. Yoshi's ledge camping eggs aren't that bad, but the ones on the stage still mindgame me. -_-

I will have to give bombs a try vs Yoshi..

I've played ADHD in several friendies and in two MMs (most recent of which was at Gauntlet 5). I don't have time to go over that entire matchup now (I have HW to do) but I will think about it and write something up tonight. If you get a chance, leave me with some points--the more specific the better--that you would like me to touch on and I'll do my best.

 

[NO-IDea]

Mario has some thing MOST characters DO NOT HAVE......a GOOD projectile. Marios fire ball is key in this match up it to spam samus untill he can get close. Samus spam can only be stopped by perfect powershielding(and even then, i have ways to deal with that)and with GOOD SPAM. To defend against your spam i must STOP my spamming and once i stop spamming the field of battle favors mario cause now nothing is stoping him from coming at samus with full force.
.

I didn't realize at first that you were using an excerpt from what you've written before. "I" and "your" became so confusing. And spam repeated like every word. lolz

But yes, Mario is a decent character contrary to his tier placement, and while I'm a huge proponent of gimping in Samus's gameplay, it's not enough to turn the MU in her favor, despite Mario's poor recovery.

I wouldn't go as far to say as fireball is a huge factor in the MU though. In fact, it shouldn't deter Samus's spam game as much as your excerpt claimed. It is useful, that much can be said, but it doesn't break the MU as much as Mario's simple combos (not actual combo, but you know what I refer to) and OoS game.

 

[NO-IDea]

Olimar: I've MMed and friendlied PyronicStar. At Apex, I played BlackWaltz in about five friendlies, then beat him 2-0 in a livestream MM the following day (Samus/Olimar, Waltz placed 9th in singles).

I used to main Olimar, so my Samus game is geared toward preventing what I would want to do as the Olimar player.

For one, throw homing missiles. If the missile isn't there, Olimar can close distance. He can come in for a grab, a Fsmash/Usmash, or an aerial. He can pressure you in general. His good options when there is a missile in his face are to either shield or throw pikmin, neither of which is particularly detrimental to you.

Second, Ftilt for spacing. At max range, Ftilt->SH will keep you from being punished by just about every option that Olimar has. The SH is also great utility, because you could either retreat->Zair or approach->Uair/Fair. Retreating Zair is rather obvious. Uair can work if you consider that Olimar has no grab armor. Uair/Fair->jab is a relatively safe option vs Olimar's shield for this reason. If his shield is strong, mixing up after landing will be more important. If his shield is low (see below...bad planning skillz x.x) then Dsmash can poke and set him up for additional damage.

Third, bombs as a mixup for retreat. Olimar's ground movement is slow. If you play your bombs right (and have port priority), then you will have a relatively safe retreat. Also, if you're within Olimar's grab range (which, let's face it, you don't want to be), bomb becomes very punishable, so be careful.

Fourth, Zair his shield. Every Olimar that I play, I nearly break his shield about twice per match. If you're camping long enough, Olimar's shield will eventually become useless. Which reminds me: you don't need to shield, and you don't need to worry about the damage from pikmin. Except for the occasional Nair/Uair to get them off, I like to take the damage. If I don't take the time to get the pikmin off me then I get to pressure Olimar's shield more, and I think that is more valuable in this matchup. (Of course, if you're on Battlefield and have five pikmin latched onto you, there's nothing wrong with upBing so that Olimar can't use them for five or six seconds).

That's a basic summary of how to work with Olimar's camping game. I'll get deeper into the matchup if/when some one presents a more specific concern.

I've played several friendlies with PS as well, and MM'ed him twice. Lost both the MMs, but my overall record with him comes to about 2:5, which would come to be about a 60:40 Olimar's favor... mathematically speaking. I think it's 65:35 =/

I never made the connection that you were a previous Olimar main. That would explain your rather extensive use of f-air in a lot of your MUs.

I throw out f-tilts whenever I can to outspace him, and shoot homing missiles from afar like there's no tomorrow. And it works to an extent. Works in the fact that I can continuously exhange damage with him, pikmin for missile/z-air. Except that's the thing: his pikmin just rack up more damage than my spam. And then the occasional purple pikmin just wrecks me.

As far as z-airing his shield... I dunno. PS doesn't shield much, if at all during his games against me. It's mostly just spam pikmin, and then if either side gives an opening, take the opportunity. Usually it's my spam that gets wrecked.

I'll take your advice with the f-air (I rarely use it in most of my MUs) and Ismar's advice with the u-tilt usage and see how I fare (haha, pun) this weekend.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post =/

 

[IsmaR]

I've played Pierce, Kirinblaze, and Cj in the Mario matchup. All three of them are great at pacing, and I find it difficult to keep the match at a speed that is less advantageous to Mario. What kind of pace do you guys attempt to set for the Mario matchup?

I've had a bit of experience as Mario. If someone tries to straight up rush you, you can punish with any aerials(SH N-air worked particularly well for me), could try stalling with Cape/Fireballs, and you could Up B OoS(Mario's Up B is underrated IMO). Going at a faster pace against Mario makes it easier for him to string his aerials together. If you take it at a really slow pace with lots of camping, then they'll simply wait until they can approach or knock back everything you throw at them. A Caped Z-air opens up the opportunity for a quick follow-up(SH N-air/U-air, dash grab, or they can read your next move and set up for a smash). It's kind of hard to explain, but taking a pseudo-aggressive(don't space yourself too much, but don't let yourself into his good zones, fool him into trying to follow you, not the other way around) approach usually works well. Be far enough to make him think you'll use projectiles, but close enough to reach him with melee moves, and take it a bit slow.

tl;dr - Don't rush, don't play too campy, and lure him to you, not the other way around.

 

[Cherry64]

I've had a bit of experience as Mario. If someone tries to straight up rush you, you can punish with any aerials(SH N-air worked particularly well for me), could try stalling with Cape/Fireballs, and you could Up B OoS(Mario's Up B is underrated IMO). Going at a faster pace against Mario makes it easier for him to string his aerials together. If you take it at a really slow pace with lots of camping, then they'll simply wait until they can approach or knock back everything you throw at them. A Caped Z-air opens up the opportunity for a quick follow-up(SH N-air/U-air, dash grab, or they can read your next move and set up for a smash). It's kind of hard to explain, but taking a pseudo-aggressive(don't space yourself too much, but don't let yourself into his good zones, fool him into trying to follow you, not the other way around) approach usually works well. Be far enough to make him think you'll use projectiles, but close enough to reach him with melee moves, and take it a bit slow.

tl;dr - Don't rush, don't play too campy, and lure him to you, not the other way around.

Izzy knows what's up ^ I just got off hirribad lagg fi with a great mario. I want to play him offline and then record it so that you know what to doo. aka apply pressure be mid range ALL the time so that you only really have to worry bout fireballs

 

[Xyro77]

Rhyme, for yoshi, after what i said and after what you said. DO u still feel we have a disadvantage?

As for olimar, i cannot accept its even or in our favor. Again, you may be just like i am with links. They are just easy for us.

Mario though, im not sur eif you guys realize how well his tornado oos and fire ball are. Tornado oos is IMO his absolute best move. His fire balls are slow and can stop both missles and medium to low CS. It can be used to edge guard and can be use for him to come in an combo. IMO mario is almost on ness/lucas level if playe right.

 

[NO-IDea]

For Ismar's reasoning is why I think it's not as bad as an disadvantage.

But it's an inevitable truth that Mario will get in and string together aerials and have the ability to KO you faster than you KO him. For that reason, he still has the advantage that is significant enough to make the MU his favor. If the entire set is played on FD, then maybe Samus will outright win through attrition and patience.

But, stages are of extreme importance considering a character's mobility has heavy influence on whether or not they're a good character. Mario has enough aerial/ground mobility to approach Samus on the majority of stages.

 

[IsmaR]

As for olimar, i cannot accept its even or in our favor. Again, you may be just like i am with links. They are just easy for us.

Mario though, im not sur eif you guys realize how well his tornado oos and fire ball are. Tornado oos is IMO his absolute best move. His fire balls are slow and can stop both missles and medium to low CS. It can be used to edge guard and can be use for him to come in an combo. IMO mario is almost on ness/lucas level if playe right.

Then speaking for the first reason, am I the only Samus that thinks that Ness isn't as big of a deal as people say he is? He may be the best Low Tier character, I won't say he's not, but as Samus, I never have that difficult of a time with one, no matter what their skill is. I honestly have more trouble with Lucas, Link, and even Jiggs. It could be the same thing with you and Link, but that's why I'm asking if I'm the only one who feels this way. I used to think the same way with Olimar, but I know more people than just me have similar thoughts.

For Mario, I don't know what the hell you are doing to get hit with his D-air. It's his worst aerial IMO. OoS, SH'd, whatever, I've only seen it useful(both from being one, fighting goods ones, and seeing good Mario mains, both on and offline) a handful of times. I'd go as far as saying that F-air might as good as it is, give or take. Fireballs, are like you said, slow. They are very predictable, and why would you be spamming that many projectiles for him to use it to block them? Z-air and nearly-to-fully Charged Charge Shots can overtake them, screwing over his approach. If you get hit with them as part of edgeguarding, then you deserve to get KO'd. Mario has mobility, quick moves to string together, and a bit more killing power than Samus. That is let down by his crappy recovery. He's definitely a threat at top level, but Samus should be able to overcome him.

 

[Cherry64]

For Mario, I don't know what the hell you are doing to get hit with his D-air. It's his worst aerial IMO. OoS, SH'd, whatever, I've only seen it useful(both from being one, fighting goods ones, and seeing good Mario mains, both on and offline) a handful of times. I'd go as far as saying that F-air might as good as it is, give or take. Fireballs, are like you said, slow. They are very predictable, and why would you be spamming that many projectiles for him to use it to block them? Z-air and nearly-to-fully Charged Charge Shots can overtake them, screwing over his approach. If you get hit with them as part of edgeguarding, then you deserve to get KO'd. Mario has mobility, quick moves to string together, and a bit more killing power than Samus. That is let down by his crappy recovery. He's definitely a threat at top level, but Samus should be able to overcome him.

take an hour and learn the match up guys, mario is good yes, but it's in our favor or 55-45. Bait lots, z air lots, jab and tilt (side, Up gets hit almost always /cry) lots, missile a very small bit.

out of all us samus mains ar eonly Izzy and I good against tiny little things? I'd call ness even too if played right, lucas has advantage thoughh

 

[IsmaR]

Lucas is underrated IMO. He shouldn't be Low Tier, even factoring in Marth's/Charizard's Infinite on him.

 

[NO-IDea]

I think Ness is underrated (because of a steep learning curve and the so few Ness mains out there) and Lucas is overrated.

Yes, Lucas is good. But honestly, they've got incredible damage racking moves, a decent throw, but no reliable kill move. They have a kill set-up, as well as situational kill moves, but from playing Lucas, I'm sooner dying from f-tilt because I'm at such a high percentage, or being tripped up from d-air->d-tilt->u-smash combo before getting hit by f-smash for the kill. (d-tilt->f-smash alone is not guaranteed. Buffer a jab, or shield ASAP if he tries to f-smash. Usually, Lucas just goes for jab combo after d-tilt.) His jab and f-air are just GTFO moves (although I've been killed by f-air too at high percentages). Throws are strong, but you can DI his d-throw more easily than Ness's b-throw.

Ness, on the other hand, has no problem owning Samus in the air, or in layman's terms, racking up damage safely. His n-air/b-air is underrated because of how much his f-air owns, and his up+b makes a decent projectile. Oh, and his throws **** just as much, if not harder, than Lucas's. So as long as Ness watches what he stales, he has a bunch of kill moves (b-throw, n-air, b-air.) Heck, even up+b as a kill move occasionally.

I don't see either MU in our favor if both players have experience against the other's character. I find Lucas more easier to face than a Ness though.

 

[IsmaR]

Yes, Lucas is good. But honestly, they've got incredible damage racking moves, a decent throw, but no reliable kill move. They have a kill set-up, as well as situational kill moves, but from playing Lucas, I'm sooner dying from f-tilt because I'm at such a high percentage, or being tripped up from d-air->d-tilt->u-smash combo before getting hit by f-smash for the kill. (d-tilt->f-smash alone is not guaranteed. Buffer a jab, or shield ASAP if he tries to f-smash. Usually, Lucas just goes for jab combo after d-tilt.) His jab and f-air are just GTFO moves (although I've been killed by f-air too at high percentages). Throws are strong, but you can DI his d-throw more easily than Ness's b-throw.

Who you playing? Play TJgamer then tell me half that crap.

Sarcasm aside, most of that seems to be what "usual" Lucas players do. This isn't really the place to argue who's better of the PK Twins, but opinions are opinions.

Ness, on the other hand, has no problem owning Samus in the air, or in layman's terms, racking up damage safely. His n-air/b-air is underrated because of how much his f-air owns, and his up+b makes a decent projectile. Oh, and his throws **** just as much, if not harder, than Lucas's. So as long as Ness watches what he stales, he has a bunch of kill moves (b-throw, n-air, b-air.) Heck, even up+b as a kill move occasionally.

N-air agreed, B-air not so much. Avoiding Ness is the most crucial part of the match-up. If you just let yourself fall into every F-air, B-air, Dash Attack, etc., then yeah, you're screwed. Shield Ness' PK Thunder and that's the end of it. You can also block it with Samus herself, and the fact his recovery isn't as good makes him easy to gimp. His throws are pretty ****, but that goes into the "Don't get grabbed" argument.

I don't see either MU in our favor if both players have experience against the other's character. I find Lucas more easier to face than a Ness though.

I think Lucas has a slight advantage, while Ness is at a disadvantage if the Samus knows how to handle them.

 

[NO-IDea]

Who you playing? Play TJgamer then tell me half that crap.

Sarcasm aside, most of that seems to be what "usual" Lucas players do. This isn't really the place to argue who's better of the PK Twins, but opinions are opinions.

I'm playing Pink Fresh, who happens to be ****** the Low Tier Wifi tourney (of which now we only have one Samus player in), and plays ten times better in real life. I didn't even know he played wifi until I looked at the bracket last month.

There was one friendly I had with him on Delfino where it looked like I was ****** his first stock. Got him to over 100s before he dealt 10. I don't stop if something works, so I didn't go in for the kill and made him come for me. He did.

Like ****ing instant 20-30% and I couldn't get the kill right away. Game progresses just like that for the rest of the match, and I lose because of burst damage and out of no where comebacks.

The point I'm trying to make is that you can't avoid the scenario where Lucas gets in. And if he does, it's severe ****. The only plus side is that while he can get in, it takes a while for him to pull off a kill move. (Exceptions of course include something situational, like d-smash on SV or BF, or his trip combo, or something along those lines.)

N-air agreed, B-air not so much. Avoiding Ness is the most crucial part of the match-up. If you just let yourself fall into every F-air, B-air, Dash Attack, etc., then yeah, you're screwed. Shield Ness' PK Thunder and that's the end of it. You can also block it with Samus herself, and the fact his recovery isn't as good makes him easy to gimp. His throws are pretty ****, but that goes into the "Don't get grabbed" argument.


I think Lucas has a slight advantage, while Ness is at a disadvantage if the Samus knows how to handle them.

I think avoiding the PK twins altogether defines the Samus MU. And because of that alone, it's not in our favor. Any MU where we can only win by avoiding close range altogether, and the opponent has decent aerial/ground mobility, we lose. This applies to the Mario MU as well. Of course we'll win if we can completely avoid Mario until kill percentages. We'd probably **** Mario on FD. But any other stage, in addition to a decent Mario who knows the MU, he will get into our personal space.

No matter what, no matter how much you say "don't let yourself fall into every f-air, b-air..." etc, they're not going to fall for every z-air/homing missile you throw, and they WILL get in if they know the MU. The exchange of damage between our spam and the damage they can rack up close is advantageous for them.

With that said, I still stand by Lucas being easier to handle than Ness. Lucas, you can survive for quite a while, despite Lucas dishing out more damage. Ness is the opposite, dealing slow, safe damage and saving his multitude of killing options.

And on a side note, this actually is this place to argue who's better between the PK twins, at least against Samus.

 

[Xyro77]

Remember, when talkin about match-ups, ASSUME both players are at the highest level possible with there respective chars.

As for who is the BEST PK kid......Ness, beyond a doubt. Nair OOS is obscene. Bair has "the knee" type properties. Back throw kill next to everybody at 110-115% and on some stages, lower. Jab is good. kick *** spike(better than samus,btw). And then of course we have the BEST move, Fair.


side note: the BEST lucas.....who and where is he? What amazing feats has he accomplished? The best ness=FOW. What has he accomplished= beat tyrant and dsf(or was it fiction?), he also teamed with sk92 and beat tyrant/m2k..................

 

[NO-IDea]

There is no best Lucas yet. But there are reputable ones in every region. I could go find out, but I'm too lazy. All I know is Pink Fresh is the reputable one in MD/VA and probably Atlantic North in general.

EDIT: On a side note, let's get the PK twins wrapped up. It seems we all have different views as to what Lucas can and cannot do. Same goes for Ness.

The argument "don't fall for their tricks" doesn't work. Because they're not some secret techs or tricks up their sleeve in general. It's how they play. The idea of never getting grabbed is a silly prospect unless you plan on air camping (which Samus can't do.) Same goes for never getting hit by an aerials.

And the sad truth, Samus mains, is that getting hit once usually results in at least another attack getting chained to it. And those two hits (possibly more) are usually equivalent to 2-3 z-airs +2-3 missiles worth of damage.

And unless you can guaranteed a follow-up, attempting to add more damage through dash attack/grabbing/aerial approaches means you are willing to put yourself in a situation to get hit.

In conclusion, their damage output and the availability to do more damage is greater than ours. All we've got is a bit more survivability, spacing and gimp power. Spacing is very important, but come on, even Marth takes on damage with spacing. Expecting Samus not to is silly.

Have you ever looked at the MUs where Samus has the advantage? It's because Samus can compete with them in their field. Peach is even because her pros put her in a situation to get hit by our pros.

We own Yoshi because we're attacking his weakness (crappy OoS game and limited approach options. Plus we beat him if he sticks to camping with egg throws.)

We have an adequate match up against Snake because he lacks both ground and aerial mobility.

We win the match-ups where our strengths are more obvious (Snake MU, Peach MU) or when their weaknesses are more profound (Yoshi.)

But all I hear about the Lucas discussion is to avoid Lucas's strengths. What are our strengths? Long-range? Then why am I hearing Samus mains argue with approaching aggressively? Why are Samus mains willing to put themselves in their good zone and Samus's bad zones? We can't compete with them in their field.

And for the latter of Samus mains that are arguing to keep away and play a game of attrition (I'm one of them,) they need to acknowledge that it's impossible to play "keep away" the entire game. And that is why we lose.

Samus is truly a low-tier character. This is because ultimately, we have to outright out-think and outplay our opponents to win in the majority of our MUs. If we don't have a higher skill level than the Lucas/Mario/Ness, what makes you think you can beat them? Because Samus is the better character in the MU? You're wrong.

All I stress it that those three MUs fall within the lines of 55-45 or 60-40. But arguing to say they're even fails to acknowledge the weaknesses of your character. I'm glad you're acknowledging their weaknesses, and also telling Samus mains what their strengths are and what our strengths are. But don't forget our weaknesses too.

I personally think that they all fall at 60-40. If you want to argue 55-45, I will not disagree with you however. And if that means you put "even" in Xyro's thread, so be it.

 

[Xyro77]

people going "AGRESSIVE" with samus is a mistake.

btw, if any of you feel we have covered a certain character to the max, please write up an article and ill post it on front page.

 

[NO-IDea]

YO, ****ING OLIMAR MATCH-UP. WAS IT YOU, RHYME?

IT IS NOT EVEN

IT IS NOT EVEN!

Honest to god guys. I'm ranking Olimar as Samus's second worst match-up. D3 being the first, MK as the third. Samus has way better options against MK than Olimar.

Argue all you want, hopefully ~PS~ will be going to Inui's tourney with me so you can play him again, Rhyme. Maybe he wasn't as good as he is now (it sounded like the last time you played him was a long time ago.). I dunno. But, Samus sucks in the match-up so hard, I want to throw my controller. Like, clearly 65-35 his favor. D3 and MK being 70-30. (I'm actually leaning the MK MU towards 65-35 after playing Korn.)

In other news, for all those who thought Tink MU was 70-30, you fail as a Samus main. It's officially 55-45 Tink's favor, way better than what was thought. I will attempt to get Lobos and Radori to chime in sometime to explain. But in conclusion, it's still fairly winnable.

As for Mario and Ness, I devoutly claim they are too 55-45 ratios, with Samus in a disadvantage. Played both character mains, won significantly against Mario and won decently against Ness, but recognized it was a difference of skill level and not MUs. If they had acted on every opportunity to get at Samus, I'm sure they would have won. Like, if I were to play Boss, the results would have probably been inverted with Samus barely losing. I can't cover ALL options with Samus... didn't get any Lucas matches though (Pink Fresh, where were you?), but I'd probably put it at 55-45 too.

As for the Snake MU, I'd put it at 60-40 for now, but I feel as Samus's metagame develops, we'll might see that change to 55-45 as well. I did extremely well against Snakes today (save for a stupid mistake that cost me the ability to take an early stock in my tourney match...)

Overall, Samus isn't terribad. We should look over some MUs again, go over some new ones so we can start analyzing them and getting experience, and in this way develop better styles and a better Samus in general. Some of the current MU ratios aren't as bad as we say they are (but some aren't as good as people think either =.=.)

*I'm still mad about the Olimar MU. That **** is ridiculous.*

 

[IsmaR]

Olimar is not her 1st, 2nd, or 3rd worst match-ups. Even if it's not even/an advantage, I don't think anyone else has as much trouble with it as you are saying. It could just be you <.< Dedede doesn't feel like one of her worst either. It's not OMFGJUSTGIVEUP bad in my eyes. 70-30 is pushing it.

I also don't feel like MK is THAT bad. 65-35 at worst, 60-40 at best. Snake I'd argue 55-45, but 60-40 sounds a bit more realistic.

 

[Cherry64]

I agree with Izzy, I knwo lots of you all disagree and such, but still. BTW NOID "Like, if I were to play Boss, the results would have probably been inverted with Samus barely losing" little full of yourself there buddy? your saying that if you fought boss you'd barely lose in a 60-40 MU, meaning that your bout tied in skill as he is?

not trying to really be a jerk, just trying to see if you maybe slipped up or something

 

[KillerJawz]

I would like it if we rediscuss Marth a little bit. I just don't think the MU is THAT bad. NOID is right, we should go over some matchups. In theory Marth ***** Samus, but I just dont see it when I play any decent Marths.

 

[NO-IDea]

I agree with Izzy, I knwo lots of you all disagree and such, but still. BTW NOID "Like, if I were to play Boss, the results would have probably been inverted with Samus barely losing" little full of yourself there buddy? your saying that if you fought boss you'd barely lose in a 60-40 MU, meaning that your bout tied in skill as he is?

not trying to really be a jerk, just trying to see if you maybe slipped up or something

Well, how about you ask me if I played him already? 'Cause I have. And I got him down to one stock consistently (maybe not high percentages, but at least I wasn't 2-stocked.) This was like back in July. And he has a sick Samus, so he knew the MU. But now I've got experience in the MU as well now, so I think he wouldn't beat me as badly before. Also, I said earlier that the MU was 55-45 after playing through them again, not 60-40 (which was my original suggestion.) But definitely not in Samus' favor. Or even.

And I'm directing my Olimar discussion with Rhyme, because it seems he knows the most about it. And ~PS~ officially stole my **** button yesterday, and I want it back. As for if it's just me? ~PS~ is within top 3 Olimar on EC (the other two are in NY/NJ I think? Somewhere near Rhyme) and 3rd PR in MD/VA. It could be that Olimar at his best, *****. Or that I don't know the MU as extensively as Rhyme does. *Rhyme, share your experience with me!*

As far as discussing "how bad" the D3 MU is, we had a previous thread about it. The CG ***** us. Because it doesn't matter at what percentage we are, he can still rack up a good 20-50% easy with it. But it seems other Samus's aren't getting grabbed while camping, or maybe planking the whole match. Or they're SO good at approaching and spacing with z-air that they don't get grabbed. Sadly, the whole "don't stay in the center" strategy only works if standing infinite isn't banned, and for the tournies I go, they don't enforce it. They enforce "pick up a secondary." But yeah, to discuss that MU any further just comes down to personal opinion.

But honestly, I'm full of myself? The MUs people are suggesting make Samus seem full of herself. Or a depressed little girl. I'm doing the best I can with Samus, and it's harder than people think in some MUs (and easier in others...) that's all I'm trying to point out.

EDIT: lol at Ismar's comment "Just give up!". I don't think 70:30 means unwinnable. It means the odds are severely stacked against you, like just below a 1/3 chance of winning. When people go to say certain MUs are worse than 70:30, then something has gone terribly wrong. If people want to argue it's 65:35, then I guess that's still believable. But, seriously, D3 is one of her worst MUs.

And KJ! I have the vids. When I get back to my dorm today, I'll send them over via Wii.

 

[KillerJawz]

Awesome NOID, be sure to <3 I wanna see your pro ****.

In my tournys infinites are banned so D3s wont **** me as hard :3.

 

[Xyro77]

Olimar is not her 1st, 2nd, or 3rd worst match-ups. Even if it's not even/an advantage

DDD
Olimar
Meta


In order.

 

[NO-IDea]

DDD
Olimar
Meta


In order.

Stop copying me. <3

Where have you been, anyway.

 

[IsmaR]

Stop copying me. <3

What happened to you NOID? You used to be cool.

 

[NO-IDea]

What happened to you NOID? You used to be cool.

What did I do? I was always the minority opinion and disagreed with Xyro concerning everything (except the D3 MU), and the one time he agrees with me, I'm not cool?

On another note, I do want to hear people talk about the Marth MU. Unsure as where to put it 'cause I haven't played a pro Marth yet (despite being in MD/VA, which is ********.) I would lean towards Rohins 60-40 from the front page the most. 70-30 and 80-20 make it seem scarier than it is. Cherry's 65-35 is believable too.

Any tips before this weekend comes up would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Xyro77]

Agreeing with someone who is f-ing smart(me) makes you look bad. They dont want to accept that there is a HIGH possibility i am right.

As for playing against marth. I can go for 65-35. The more marths i play the more i realize that if marth goes all-out agressive on you and stays in your face....you have next to nothing to answer back with. D tilts/fair/jabs/first hit of OVER B/UP+OOS........these ALONE destroy samus. The only thing we have on him is that his HORRIBLE air dodge can be punished by alot of our moves. So obviously, put him in the air above us.

Pick stages that screw up his recovery: pkmn 1, japes, frigate

 

[IsmaR]

Agreeing with someone who is f-ing smart(me) makes you look bad. They dont want to accept that there is a HIGH possibility i am right.

If that was true(not the smart part, lolsmart), then I wouldn't be agreeing with you as far as Marth goes. But I can see 60-40 in their favor as well.

 

[Cherry64]

Totally is even at worst (mario Vs. Samus). I've already said everything I can say to make you believe me, but apparently it's not enough. So lemme put it this way, if you have almost beat boss, and we are about tied, and the MU's are expected to be at the highest levels of play, it's safe to say that Xyro Vs. boss would prolly be Xyro winning. he beat you over wi-fi, and he verrrry rarely plays wi-fi.

not trying to stab at you (it totally looks that way yes, but it's not intended )

As for Marthyy. if he gets in yo face you screwed. he wont' let up at all DO NOT CHOOSE BF or your an idiot.

 

[Xyro77]

i wanna play boss on wifi.

 

[NO-IDea]

I didn't play on wi-fi. And I'm terribad at wi-fi. Ask KJ. Our friendlies give me nightmares afterwards. lolz

My skill level is ten times better offline than online. (It's not hard to be ten times better when you suck as bad as I do on wi-fi. SD with Wario on bike because you can't handle input lag? Or you can't grab ledge free fall from Samus's up+b consistently? GG)

 

[Cherry64]

then ask him, pretty sure he'd say sayure, and hell you minazwel try it out, stay z air range, and out of his jab range, that destroys us jab to fireball, plus it's like 20 mil times faster than ours

 

[KillerJawz]

You handle wifi alot better then some people, but still badly, you have yet to win the majority <3. I do admit however that lag screwed NOID up a bit more then myself. He used Samus' up b on battlefield and got stage gimped xD.

 

[Rhyme]

Sorry that I've been neglecting the boards. Life was rather involved over this last weekend. When I get some free time, I will get to re-reading the posts and writing somewhat of a Diddy summary.

NO-ID: Repeated Zairing is what forces him to shield, at which point you keep pressuring his shield with Zair and other stuff. I would put this MU at about 55-45 (Olimar's favor). Samus has much bigger problems than him.

I would gladly MM PS again and record it if possible.

Xyro: I thought Yoshi went even with Samus. After reading what you guys have said, I don't see how Samus takes advantage.

It could be that way with me and Olimar. I do have rather extensive experience in the MU.

 

[KillerJawz]

Rhyme watch some of Xyros matches with various Yoshi mains, it will become clear why its in our favour.

Hint hint: Zair

 

[Gnes]

Sorry that I've been neglecting the boards. Life was rather involved over this last weekend. When I get some free time, I will get to re-reading the posts and writing somewhat of a Diddy summary.

NO-ID: Repeated Zairing is what forces him to shield, at which point you keep pressuring his shield with Zair and other stuff. I would put this MU at about 55-45 (Olimar's favor). Samus has much bigger problems than him.

I would gladly MM PS again and record it if possible.

Xyro: I thought Yoshi went even with Samus. After reading what you guys have said, I don't see how Samus takes advantage.

It could be that way with me and Olimar. I do have rather extensive experience in the MU.

hey, its xyro on my friends account. If you explain to me on what gives you trouble when it comes to yoshi, i may be able to help you.

 

[Cherry64]

Xyro you get banned to much.

 

[KillerJawz]

Xyro you get banned to much.

^This.

Seriously Xyro how'd you get banned this time? x.x

 

[Xyro77]

lol im not banned. had you cats just scroll up and look under my name you would see i wasnt banned. WHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHH!

Btw, i did some friendlies(serious ones) with Tx 3rd PR player. Gnes, hes a diddy main(probably number 2 in the USA). I lost all of them but one and i recorded them all. Im uploading them now. The reason why i did thiis is because some one wanted to talk about diddy to see what and what not to do. Well these vids should help. they will be up shortly.


60-40 and maybe even 65-36 in diddys favor.

 

[Magik0722]

Hey xyro while you are uploading those, maybe you can upload my videos as well if you have the time