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Grand Old Thread: League of Legends!

JTB

Live for the applause
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q shouldve always been physical damage because it just makes sense. you see a tiger clawing you, you think its physical damage. like i said, i had no idea it was magic until now because physical damage seems to be a given

only time will tell if more R procs allows for less stance dancing, allowing udyr to conserve more mana

probably right about early game bear stance, but having that extra ms during team fights late game makes me so happy

r change is clearly geared towards jungle clearing and the fact that theres only 3 ranks of it probably means riot wants people to level phoenix to 3 for jungling, then switch to tiger for damage late game

and agree to disagree on ms > armor/mr. udyr has always functioned as a stun bot in fights and if you are being focused on rather than your carries, then you should be winning
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
11,870
The changes seem to be nudging Udyr to build more offensively, so I'd say the new passive is better. Wouldn't be surprised to see more changes similar to the increased scaling on R.
 

Vyke

Smash Champion
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Not to mention if you decide to gank and you've invested in Phoenix, you won't need to worry about stacking up phoenix on creeps before hitting a lane.
 

Plum

Has never eaten a plum.
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I play Udyr primarily as a top laner, and as such I like the change to Tiger Stance because it makes his early game better. It's going to naturally work off of masteries/runes in the early game where the diversified damage means less. Lategame I will agree that this is a nerf, but a Tiger Stance top lane build often goes 21 into offense to really capitalize on the crazy high damage Tiger Stance does, especially early game when resistances are low. I like this early game, and seeing as Tiger Stance is a top lane build, you will have higher income than a jungler; this should to some degree negate the diversification of his damage. For instance, I often get Black Cleaver lategame when playing top Udyr; in this case Tiger Stance dealing physical damage in conjunction with armor pen from any runes/masteries seems like an overall plus to me. There are games where I need to go heavy defensive in my build, or I just don't get to the point where I can get a luxury item like Black Cleaver and in those cases I would rather have magic damage. Overall its a bit of a tossup for me, but I completely agree with this change in terms of consistency. Tiger Stance dealing physical damage just makes sense. The ability scales off of his physical damage, the proc itself is an auto attack, and it's a freaking TIGER. Tiger's do physical damage.

In the jungle you are playing Phoenix Stance most of the time. I'm a wee bit drunk, so I'm not too keen on doing math right now, but I think getting the Phoenix proc on your first attack will equate to more damage than the AP/50% AD buff. That's just looking at it, and not really doing any math mind you. If that's right, then I think that's a fine buff that gives him some extra speed when clearing. I like it. I also really like that it gives you some upfront damage when ganking. That makes you far more dangerous. Tiger Udyr is traditionally a top lane build, but there has always been the argument that Tiger Stance jungling is good because of the upfront damage when ganking. You would have much slower clear times, but your gankes were more effective. Tiger Stance still has more upfront damage, so in that sense you can still say its better at ganking. However there is now a much more clear line drawn as to which ability is geared for which roll. Phoenix may not do as much damage upfront, but now it still packs a good punch, and you don't have to sacrifice clear time. Yeah, if you are in the "we need to promote as many builds as possible" camp than having clearly defined rolls in his abilities might not seem good, but personally I see this as a good thing for the character.

Bear Stance is both a buff and a nerf. It's a straight up nerf in the early levels. But lategame I would prefer the new version. Generally Bear Stance is maxed out last, after your primary damage stance (Tiger or Phoenix) and after Turtle Stance. So for a large portion of the game this is going to be a nerf. Even if less movespeed for a longer duration gives you more overall distance than higher movespeed for shorter distance, Udyr would rather have that higher movespeed. He's a sprinter, not a long distance runner. Once he catches you and gets one proc off, especially if he has something like Iceborn Gauntlet/Triforce, he can often seal your fate. In that sense, having that bigger initial burst is better. When playing Udyr, generally if I can't catch them after one Bear Stance they get away. And more often than not, it's them getting away at the beginning of the movespeed increase, not after four seconds of me running after them. Personally, if they taking Bear Stance in this direction, I would want to have some more oomph at level 1 in addition lategame. Maybe they think that will be too good? In a metagame dominated by Flash, and so many champions having mobility/escapes in some shape or form, it's not like people really have problems running away from the champion that has no other option but to run straight at you or pop a summoner. If I have to blow a summoner to catch you, I should catch you. That's my feeling at least.

Turtle Stance... Yuck. Ew. I can't see this as anything but a nerf. I don't care if I can crit. What kind of crit does Udyr even get? A small % from Triforce? Really not going to impact things. Loosing the mana sustain is a huuuuuge nerf to both jungle Udyr and lane Udyr. He has huge mana problems early game because he has a pitifully small mana pool and high mana costs until lategame. Lategame, even if you really don't need the mana sustain, what they give him in exchange for losing this by no means makes up for it. To be honest, I think they could clearly give him buffs in his other abilities (not these ambiguous maybe buffs/nerfs here) in addition to this Turtle Stance, and it would come out as a nerf. The mana regen on Turtle Stance is huuuuuge to his early game/mid game presence. As a champion who falls off lategame, he really needs to shine early on.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
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I like these changes.

Especially the phoenix one with only to lvl 3, now he won't be cut off on an ability when he wants to go late game.
 

KuroganeHammer

It's ya boy
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I like these changes.

Especially the phoenix one with only to lvl 3, now he won't be cut off on an ability when he wants to go late game.
it still has 5 ranks

Edit:

E ignores unit collision now, okay so that's a definite buff seeing as watching Udyr flounder around minions is extremely frustrating and annoying. I mean, it doesn't matter that his early game bear is nerfed seeing as his ganks are non-existent anyway.

W, Q and passive are still nerfs tho. idk about R yet, seeing as clear speed in the new jungle doesn't determine if someone's good or not (hi shyvana). :>
 

Plum

Has never eaten a plum.
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it still has 5 ranks

Edit:

E ignores unit collision now, okay so that's a definite buff seeing as watching Udyr flounder around minions is extremely frustrating and annoying. I mean, it doesn't matter that his early game bear is nerfed seeing as his ganks are non-existent anyway.

W, Q and passive are still nerfs tho. idk about R yet, seeing as clear speed in the new jungle doesn't determine if someone's good or not (hi shyvana). :>
Nonexistent? Hardly. Sure, on his own he is only ganking a well overextended lane, but with any teammate that has some form of CC his ganks can quickly become deadly. His ganks improve with upfront Phoenix proc too. Still not something to write home about, but no means are Udyr's ganks nonexistent.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
People complaining about turtle stance/mana are not actually looking at the numbers. Early rank abilities are now 5 mana cheaper. Turtle would have given you 5% of auto attack damage dealt in mana, which is easily less than 5 mana, so yes it is a slight nerf but the difference really isn't that big unless you're constantly in turtle stance. I guess going avarice blade might now be worth it or something.
 

Player-3

Smash Hero
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i worded that wrong

his turtle is now 10% of physical dmg


meaning he heals off 10% of his tiger dot / bork
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
They changed that without changing the wording? I mean it was always kinda vague what it actually applied to.
 

Vyke

Smash Champion
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Because your mongo crits will totally restore lots of health backed by the 0 AD you're going to build.
 

Shaya

   「chase you」 
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Riot tends to...
nerf something's cost effectiveness
then upscale the cost dramatically.

At the same time.
All the time.

This is the destiny of season three items.
All of them.

Just pray your character doesn't have super special awesome synergy with any season three item. Because they're going to get nerfed about three-five times in a row. Before, during and after the periods the item is getting nerfed too.

</super cynical hard truth shaya>
 

DallasPhat

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Think about this, udyr base movement speed is 345, 15ms added on is nearly 5% ms buff (that's like having 3 ms quints for free) while 12% of magic and armor (udyr core build) will probably be like what? 120 armor/mr??? that's like 14 more armor/mr?? lol that's nothing. Damage modifier with 120 armor/mr would be ~ 45.5% and with 134 armor/mr it would be ~ 42.7% (that's a less then 3% damage mitigation difference). Anyways his passive got worst the more armor/magic resist you have, while flat movement speed get better with each % modifier.

Also people saying udyr will come out of the jungle with no mana (cause you know that lvl 1 udyr regen 5% mana of his damage going to make a huge difference). LOL you guys are just blowing everything out of proportion, think about this you cast what phoenix turtle phoenix to clear a wave right? That's roughly 150 mana.. with the new build you can just phoenix prep -> phoenix and thats only 100 mana... sounds like he'll have even more mana now with a faster clear time. Also tiger becoming physical is a huge buff... do you guy's remember when sivir q become physical? Hmm pretty sure that was a big buff to her. Also if they start stacking armor you can just go phoenix instead in lane.
 

Vyke

Smash Champion
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Tiger Dot will now benefit from Armor Penetration as well, as a side note. I'm digging the Udyr changes for the most part, tbh.
 

BSL

B-B-B-BLAMM!!!
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Me too. Udyr was my first jungler and I've always liked him.
 
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