Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

[A2ZOMG]

What's your plan A for actually landing the KO move? Certainly you're not expecting to easily get any KOs from a throw are you? I'm not threatened by your grab game in short. It isn't always safe either...considering most standard grabs have pretty significant ending lag.

 

[Chis]

Can we just ignore A2 now, like for the rest of the match up? He's just dragging this along.

 

[Anthinus]

We are not specting KO from grabs dude (unless you reach 180%). Sonic grab game is to rack up damage (a 12% throw and second more damaging pummel), including his speed to approach or space away makes it top class. Fthrow and Uthrow helps to re-grab opponents making use of fake outs to force our opponets to make wrong things like airdodge, shield, attack... Thats a raw resume of Sonic's grab and "chaingrab"(lol) game.

EDIT: @Chis: AYE AYE Sir!

 

[Kinzer]

RSR, take Chis' suggestion as something strong to consider (really), but not as law, just do whatever you want.

As tempting as A2 ia making it for me, I hate it when people ignore my posts and just continue like I don't exist, therefore I won't do it to him. Instead I'll just leave this thread to do whatever, seeing as how if MY opinion doesn't matter, then I will have no reason to be there, and for all that I cared, they could say G&W was 8-2 matchup advantage.

They would only be lying to themselves/everybody else/make them look really bad, but at least it won't be on my concience.

Keep debating if you feel like doing so.

I just do it to try and get a reasonable write-up, so far I am praising God that A2 isn't managing it, and I see purpose.

 

[A2ZOMG]

We are not specting KO from grabs dude (unless you reach 180%). Sonic grab game is to rack up damage (a 12% throw and second more damaging pummel), including his speed to approach or space away makes it top class. Fthrow and Uthrow helps to re-grab opponents making use of fake outs to force our opponets to make wrong things like airdodge, shield, attack... Thats a raw resume of Sonic's grab and "chaingrab"(lol) game.

EDIT: @Chis: AYE AYE Sir!

Letting G&W live to 180% is highly inadvisable. The short story is if he's living that long you're probably getting owned in the process.

Basically the way I see it, I've successful staled your game into faking out for grabs. When you mess up, you get punished until I KO you at like 110% with a F-air or D-air out of shield, which is VERY reliable on block on any of Sonic's KO moves or when he whiffs a grab. I can retreat with aerials or mix up my DI or even just go to the ledge so escape a lot of Sonic's non-guaranteed stuff. A lot of the stuff I do for dealing damage "combos" better than most of the stuff Sonic has due to G&W being much better in the air than Sonic, not to mention it does more damage per hit.

Most of the stuff Sonic KOs with for capitalizing on dumb mistakes KOs at like 130%, while the stuff I have for capitalizing on dumb mistakes kills at like 80%.

Like seriously....how DOESN'T the shield horribly limit Sonic? Nobody has actually countered that. If Sonic had any good shield pressure, this would be a close matchup....but I'm 99% sure his shield pressure is garbage. And because he has zero combos that reliably kill from throws, this obviously means he can't kill reliably at all.

Do you realize how predictable you've become when you're only real answer to shielding is grabbing? You aren't DDD keep in mind.

This matchup can't be 55/45 because G&W can't really be put in disadvantaged positions that really matter while Sonic has to go through a lot of risks to do anything to G&W which results him eventually getting KOed earlier than he can possibly KO G&W.

It's more than 6/4 because Sonic can be shut down completely by an intelligent camp game, while he can't do the same back to a G&W that needs to approach due to his defensive game not having the tools for that.

And really, one thing has to stop. Most of the arguments the Sonic players have assume that Sonic is camping more than G&W, which is faulty as the same argument can be used on G&W's side.

Seriously, you guys play one of the gayest characters in Brawl. You can be proud of that, or offended by that. No johns telling others he can't be gay just cause he sucks ****. He's super homosexual. More homosexual than Marth, Snake, Metaknight, G&W, you name them. OK maybe not as much as DDD but still. Sonic is gay. He makes Brawl more unfun than anyone except DDD.

Sonic must die.

 

[Greenstreet]

Fair amount of hate in that post

The only way a Sonic can reliably win this matchup is knowing the flaws of his opponent better than the opponent knows his. Thats the raw truth of it unfortunately. I know thats the same for most matchups but really there is no area of play where Sonic has a distinct advantage as a character. We have to rely on our abilities to use Sonic rather than his attributes.
You've gotta play a really tight game. You can't be the Sonic that runs in and tries to whip out attacks at the speed of light, because GaW has way too much priority and options for killing for you to be anything less than perfect.
There's no reliable area of the game that we can use to our advantage, so it comes down to doing what every Sonic needs to learn. Punishing mistakes.

Meh, sorry if this helps no one, I just haven't posted in a while and thought I would but in.
Nighty night.

 

[cutter]

I still think that if many of the character boards rediscuss their matchups, they'll find many matchups where it is not even close to being a runaway victory/defeat. The mechanics of Brawl are largely responsible for that IMO.

 

[Tenki]

Airdodging isn't advisable.

I land kills off of airdodges =/

 

[Kinzer]

Most of the stuff Sonic KOs with for capitalizing on dumb mistakes KOs at like 130%, while the stuff I have for capitalizing on dumb mistakes kills at like 80%.

Like seriously....how DOESN'T the shield horribly limit Sonic? Nobody has actually countered that. If Sonic had any good shield pressure, this would be a close matchup....but I'm 99% sure his shield pressure is garbage. And because he has zero combos that reliably kill from throws, this obviously means he can't kill reliably at all.

Do you realize how predictable you've become when you're only real answer to shielding is grabbing? You aren't DDD keep in mind.

It's more than 6/4 because Sonic can be shut down completely by an intelligent camp game, while he can't do the same back to a G&W that needs to approach due to his defensive game not having the tools for that.

And really, one thing has to stop. Most of the arguments the Sonic players have assume that Sonic is camping more than G&W, which is faulty as the same argument can be used on G&W's side.

Seriously, you guys play one of the gayest characters in Brawl. You can be proud of that, or offended by that. No johns telling others he can't be gay just cause he sucks ****. He's super homosexual. More homosexual than Marth, Snake, Metaknight, G&W, you name them. OK maybe not as much as DDD but still. Sonic is gay. He makes Brawl more unfun than anyone except DDD.

Sonic must die.

Too bad we're assuming high level play and both character players won't be making mistakes that often if not ever.

Grabs, and Up-Throw would to have a word with you...

DI towards his front doesn't help, and DIing the correct way still limits your options because it only puts you in one spot from there.

Not our only one, just our best option... faaaaaaakeoooooooouts.

Oh yeah he can, just to a lesser extent, stop acting like Bairs will save you from everything because it won't. I don't want to have to explain but if we can do some of the junk we can do to MK, why the Hell would G&W be an exception?

When you stop throwing **** around, we'll be a little bit more reasonable.

Or not...:

At least it's much more exciting than playing a 2-dimensional character in a 3D game...

...U c what i did thar? BTW I don't know if anybody else is willing to say this, but I could have that post reported for flaming.

Fair amount of hate in that post

The only way a Sonic can reliably win this matchup is knowing the flaws of his opponent better than the opponent knows his. Thats the raw truth of it unfortunately. I know thats the same for most matchups but really there is no area of play where Sonic has a distinct advantage as a character. We have to rely on our abilities to use Sonic rather than his attributes.
You've gotta play a really tight game. You can't be the Sonic that runs in and tries to whip out attacks at the speed of light, because GaW has way too much priority and options for killing for you to be anything less than perfect.
There's no reliable area of the game that we can use to our advantage, so it comes down to doing what every Sonic needs to learn. Punishing mistakes.

It's sad because it only keeps cycling back to who can throw more poo and how much more stinky it can be than the last.

Too bad human error isn't taken into account in matchup threads, which is exactly why the majority of Sonic's matchups are worse on paper than they really are in practice should the Sonic player have an extensive knowledge of his own character, which is how it should be done anyway because this is tournament play.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Hmmm, 14 inches of pain is really good with Sonic, but I've only used Mario against him.

But really, the shield and the few out of shield options that G&W has seriously shut down Sonic. Hard. If you deny this, you're crazy. If Sonic is in the air above you, N-air or Up-B out of shield. D-tilt stops him in his tracks a lot in general. If he uses tilts, B-air out of shield. If he's near the edge, B-air. If you're in doubt, edgecamp. Seriously this matchup is not hard at all if you're patient. It's just incredibly lame and one of the biggest campfests ever.

The only thing he can do is attempt to fake you out for a grab, which leads to nothing else.

I never said Sonic had an advantage over Game & Watch (because he doesn't); I just think your advice is garbage. And kind of the point about match ups is the characters that are being matched up. So when it comes to the sonic/game and watch match-up: Sonic, good, Mario, not so good. Do you see why I might think your "experience" playing against Sonic doesn't count for much?

 

[cutter]

I haven't cared too much about matchups nowadays because it's too hard to disregard both theorycraft and human error. No one is obviously going to play perfect; that's impossible because we're humans. There will be mistakes made by both sides considering how very little, if any is truly safe in Brawl. On the other hand, we can assume attack patterns and behavior for a certain character and how one should react to it.

Ugh... matchups have just been giving me a headache.

 

[omegablackmage]

yeah there are only so many facts to this matchup. you guys have pretty much been theorycrafting for the last page or so, and its really hard to decipher whats practical.

 

[Anthinus]

RSR, take Chis' suggestion as something strong to consider (really), but not as law, just do whatever you want.

As tempting as A2 ia making it for me, I hate it when people ignore my posts and just continue like I don't exist, therefore I won't do it to him. Instead I'll just leave this thread to do whatever, seeing as how if MY opinion doesn't matter, then I will have no reason to be there, and for all that I cared, they could say G&W was 8-2 matchup advantage.

They would only be lying to themselves/everybody else/make them look really bad, but at least it won't be on my concience.

Keep debating if you feel like doing so.

I just do it to try and get a reasonable write-up, so far I am praising God that A2 isn't managing it, and I see purpose.

Come on Kinzer... We are steak brothers...

I said before that I consider A2 a good person (he is just a bit stubborn). I'm as nice as steak...
That was a joke, I wanted to see A2's reaction (LOL, I didn't said it cuz it was Chis. I'd said it even If a new a guy with 1 post said it LOL). If you felt bad I apologize A2, If not nevermind... I just don't know how to joke (everybody says that to me )

When I said UThrow at 180% is in the case that occurs, not that I'll be waitng to that...
And as Kinzer said, good players don't do mistakes often cause have their character trained. But Sonic is good to force you to do things, thats what his mindgames are for. If you say A2, that you'll don't fall in Sonic's fake outs and mindgames, every argument you use now on can be put on doubt...

It looks like you want to force Sonic to play the way you want it to play :/. You want him to kill from grabs or lead combos from there. DDD's and Sonic's are diferent grab games (What does DDD against guys who can CG? He mindgame them, to grab them again... Sonic is the same...).

To add a bit to GreenStreet's post: G&W range don't Stop Sonic, just slows him down. We can't Spin Dash and use our adventages freely so we are forced to use our other strong points like punish game (You'll get mindgamed (soon or later and often), we have a fan of different options to choose)...

As I said, when I fight G&W I usually add damage with grab games and pummels using mindgames to force G&W do reaction the way I can keep adding damage, Bair and dash attack (OoS too) to hit shields and add a bit of preassure (even damage...). Powershield that crazy hitboxes (at least that isn't hard for me ). SC and SD occationally (SD against turtle). SS over dtilt to nullify it usage. And when you are around 100-130% go for a well mindgamed OoS Fair near da edge or a ftilt near the edge too (if not kills, let him ready to be hugged).

Your question: is that easy???
My asnswer: WHO ON EARTH SAID IS EASY... IS HARD! But isn't a huge gap between them to make Sonic unable to win. I haven't seen a solid argument for me to move from 60-40 or 55-45 in G&W favor...

 

[Tenki]

Well, even if something might seem to be avoidable, it's not a wise decision to simply disregard it, because you might as well be saying "LOLNOTHINGTOSEEHERE" to hide a possible hole in your argument.

Question, would you consider GAW's forward/below a sort of 'hole'/blindspot in midair? Assuming that we do get a grab, we will most likely U-throw or F-throw and position ourselves to be in that position, since we won't have to worry about your B-air from that direction.

A well-spaced Sonic U-air should either outprioritize or trade hits with GAW's D-air.

I'm pretty sure I've either ran under and F-aired a GAW's retreating F-air from below or used U-smash's invincibility frames to counter a falling aerial, if not a shield>aerial OoS.

I've been seeing alot of "Sonic has no followups from throws", but I'm wondering about the extent that GAW really has safe options from a throw.

It looks like you want to force Sonic to play the way you want it to play :/. You want him to kill from grabs or lead combos from there. DDD's and Sonic's are diferent grab games (What does DDD against guys who can CG? He mindgame them, to grab them again... Sonic is the same...).

To add a bit to GreenStreet's post: G&W range don't Stop Sonic, just slows him down. We can't Spin Dash and use our adventages freely so we are forced to use our other strong points like punish game (You'll get mindgamed (soon or later and often), we have a fan of different options to choose)...

As I said, when I fight G&W I usually add damage with grab games and pummels using mindgames to force G&W do reaction the way I can keep adding damage, Bair and dash attack (OoS too) to hit shields and add a bit of preassure (even damage...). Powershield that crazy hitboxes (at least that isn't hard for me ). SC and SD occationally (SD against turtle). SS over dtilt to nullify it usage. And when you are around 100-130% go for a well mindgamed OoS Fair near da edge or a ftilt near the edge too (if not kills, let him ready to be hugged).

Your question: is that easy???
My asnswer: WHO ON EARTH SAID IS EASY... IS HARD! But isn't a huge gap between them to make Sonic unable to win. I haven't seen a solid argument for me to move from 60-40 or 55-45 in G&W favor...

lol for some reason this reminded me of KASR.

mindgames mindgames.
Unless you're talking about limiting the opponent's options with a certain moveset, ignore it.

You can try to spinshot over D-tilt, but what do you think the GAW player is doing as you spinshot? Do you think he's just going to sit there and keep hitting down-A? He can just stop, then jump a U-air, N-air, or up-B.

Someone mentioned earlier that even if GAW's D-tilt comes out early, that just means that if you shield it at the beginning, it gives you more time to say, F-air OoS. That's more of what you should be looking for, rather than arguing for the an opponent who doesn't have smart usage of moves/reflexes.


----------------

What moves (that Sonic uses) does GAW tend to land U-smash/F-smash from? Just wondering.

 

[_Phloat_]

GaW doesn't really have a blind spot in front. He can FF a nair retreating to make it hard to poke from the front. He can mix up his dair to make it much harder to punish. He can simply FF and airdodge through like everyone else.

GaW lands his smashes from spacing mistakes, the opponent's bad DI (trying to get out of Nair or Bair), Nairs canceled on the ground to smashes, and shield mistakes. GaW's smashes are very safe on block. He likes to airdodge to the ground and smash. He can smash you running at him with your shield. Personally I like to run and u-smash when I knock someone down with d-tilt, they can either roll at you and die, or avoid it and return to a nuetral state. I got that off on Milln =].

U-smash is also great from a d-throw chase.

 

[Tenki]

GaW doesn't really have a blind spot in front. He can FF a nair retreating to make it hard to poke from the front. He can mix up his dair to make it much harder to punish. He can simply FF and airdodge through like everyone else.

GaW lands his smashes from spacing mistakes, the opponent's bad DI (trying to get out of Nair or Bair), Nairs canceled on the ground to smashes, and shield mistakes. GaW's smashes are very safe on block. He likes to airdodge to the ground and smash. He can smash you running at him with your shield. Personally I like to run and u-smash when I knock someone down with d-tilt, they can either roll at you and die, or avoid it and return to a nuetral state. I got that off on Milln =].

U-smash is also great from a d-throw chase.

I know GAW's smashes are safe on block, but how about on miss?
Oh right, D-throw techpredicting is an awesome way to land U-smash.

What moves do you tend to grab Sonic from?
------------


Also, does N-air hit directly below GAW?

 

[Anthinus]

Well, even if something might seem to be avoidable, it's not a wise decision to simply disregard it, because you might as well be saying "LOLNOTHINGTOSEEHERE" to hide a possible hole in your argument

Question, would you consider GAW's forward/below a sort of 'hole'/blindspot in midair? Assuming that we do get a grab, we will most likely U-throw or F-throw and position ourselves to be in that position, since we won't have to worry about your B-air from that direction.

A well-spaced Sonic U-air should either outprioritize or trade hits with GAW's D-air.

I'm pretty sure I've either ran under and F-aired a GAW's retreating F-air from below or used U-smash's invincibility frames to counter a falling aerial, if not a shield>aerial OoS.

I've been seeing alot of "Sonic has no followups from throws", but I'm wondering about the extent that GAW really has safe options from a throw.

Thats true, Yup Yup...

lol for some reason this reminded me of KASR.

mindgames mindgames.
Unless you're talking about limiting the opponent's options with a certain moveset, ignore it.

Where that KASR went? I haven't see him around...
I sometimes cant express the way I want to (I beg your patience Tenki ). I wanted to say that fake outs are one of Sonic's strong point that we will be using more cuz we are limited by G&W's range. So we can bluff them in a lot of ways to keep grabbing or etc. I guess mindgame wasn't the best word for what I want to say...

You can try to spinshot over D-tilt, but what do you think the GAW player is doing as you spinshot? Do you think he's just going to sit there and keep hitting down-A? He can just stop, then jump a U-air, N-air, or up-B.

Someone mentioned earlier that even if GAW's D-tilt comes out early, that just means that if you shield it at the beginning, it gives you more time to say, F-air OoS. That's more of what you should be looking for, rather than arguing for the an opponent who doesn't have smart usage of moves/reflexes.

I'm not thinking they'll just sit looking me SSing above them back and forth (LOL). G&W players are far from reflex lacking or non-smart move users (maybe I had detailed that... Geez Tenki, you're forcing me to deatil LOL)... SD can b canceled with shield as you know, so making it harder to read. If they dtilt>USmash/Nair and you canceled they get a running grab/shield grab. If you success with SS (not as hard as you make it looks) you can bair, SDC, etc. Even if they shield we have a lot of options... Please correct me if I'm wrong or missed something (I'm always willing to learn).

What moves (that Sonic uses) does GAW tend to land U-smash/F-smash from? Just wondering.

I don't know USmash, but FSmash is commonly used when you approach to G&W running (and help us to PS then punish) or an option if you roll behind G&W. FSmash is Used to edguard if you are below the stage and don't walljump :/.

 

[_Phloat_]

I know GAW's smashes are safe on block, but how about on miss?
Oh right, D-throw techpredicting is an awesome way to land U-smash.

What moves do you tend to grab Sonic from?
------------


Also, does N-air hit directly below GAW?

Depends on spacing. Obviously if you are behind us and we f-smash the wrong way we are gonna eat smash. It depends on our spacing. I like to throw out a lot of safe smashes, space them well and you WONT be punished.

Sarcasm?

I don't grab often. Probably if they aerial on our shield and mess up, or from a techchase of a d-tilt, or off a ledge attack (Sonics don't do that often, do they?)

 

[ShadowLink84]

I saw someone mentiong G&Ws Dtilt.
concerning it, the best way to beat it is to simply use Sonic's Ftilt. sonic's Ftilt has increedible range and I am quite sure that none of G&W's ground moves can beat it out on range.

The main issue for me when I play G&W, is simply because he is very safe, his Smashes are safe on block, spotdodging them doesn't work too well because of the linger hitbox. @_@

 

[Kinzer]

yeah there are only so many facts to this matchup. you guys have pretty much been theorycrafting for the last page or so, and its really hard to decipher whats practical.

...Yeah, you can pretty much say whatever you feel like, Sonic is terrible on paper since his game revolves so much around mindgames and fakeouts, and since that is player dependent, it isn't counted towards the final ratio. His attributes are awful except probably his recovery which is the only thing that nobody can deny.

He's fast in the air but has terrible mobility and usually has to commit to his aerial approaches.

His throws with the exception of U-Throw suck. B-Throw is his weakest/has no follows ups, and doesn't even kill at the edge, D-Throw can be teched, F-Throw is the same thing like B-Throw with 1% more damage, and I think some opponents can even punish Sonic from the position they usually end up in, they're so bad that Sonic will only use throws to get in some more damage and if you're ******** enough, set up into other moves.

He has noticable ending lag on his attacks, and a lot of them will be weakened... as if he didn't have enough problems killing. His smashes are so punishable that if you know when to shield, you're good to go (FSmash is actually pretty good, let's just leave it at that).

He gets technical when you apply B-moves, no good Sonic will be using HA for any good reason, and Spring is only good as an escape button when it works, otherwise he limits himself by not being able to do as much, take it as a good or bad thing IDC, but the B-button is where 99% of Sonic's metagame is.

 

[omegablackmage]

when i said you guys, i meant everyone talking in the thread, both sides are just theorycrafting at this point

 

[_Phloat_]

Does anyone else get their page stretched by the sonic mains that have decided their location is a youtube link?

 

[ShadowLink84]

Does anyone else get their page stretched by the sonic mains that have decided their location is a youtube link?

Yeah i was wondering what happened

 

[Kinzer]

You know you could just say my name since none of the others actually fill that description...

I also have it where my web browser does not stretch.

It wierded me out at first since I didn't intend on it, but you get used to it.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I can and WILL falcon punch you Kinzer. Yeeeeep.

Anyways what would be the ratio for this matchup?

 

[_Phloat_]

Bad with names, and I could've sworn there was 2+....

either way, It would be fine on my nice 22''ing 1680 by 1050 monster, but I am on a 17'' or 19'' piece-o-****, so meh.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I need replacement keys for my laptop. Two buttons broke. Anyways I was thinking 65:35 in G&W's favor

Spoiler

Its actually 80-20 against G&W <_<

 

[MyCurse4Life]

It really helps to know how to use Dtilt effectively so you can nullify Toon Link's projectiles. Once you have the timing down on blocking arrows/boomerang/bombs, you shouldn't have too many problems against projectile spam. Dtilt is so good in this matchup because it will outrange all his sword attacks (IIRC).

 

[Noa.]

It really helps to know how to use Dtilt effectively so you can nullify Toon Link's projectiles. Once you have the timing down on blocking arrows/boomerang/bombs, you shouldn't have too many problems against projectile spam. Dtilt is so good in this matchup because it will outrange all his sword attacks (IIRC).

I'm thinking that you posted in the wrong thread?

 

[omegablackmage]

Sonic: (65/35)

General Matchup:

• Sonic is by far the fastest character in the game in terms of movement, which can be some trouble for you. His moves aren't really slow either, and if you aren't keeping a tight game, he will get in on you with no problem.
• Sonic is known for having very little priority, one of the reasons he's so low on the tier list. However, he does have decent range in some areas. Ftilt has very good range, that will beat your dtilt. Dtilt, fsmash, bair, upair, dsmash, all have good range that can even sometimes find ways around your hitboxes.
• Sonic also has a hard time landing kills, but if you aren't careful, they can sneak them in. Fsmash is probably his strongest one, but it isn't the fastest of smashes. On the same token, when in close range, dsmash is also quite strong but a tad slow. Other aerials that can kill are bair and up air when used higher up.
• For edgeguarding, sonics usually try for bair stage spikes, spring drops to interrupt/stage spike, or just general interruption offstage. Gw can get through the spring/bair with up b pretty easily, so they would have to settle for an aerial offstage. However nair should beat all of sonic's aerials quite easily. They may have to settle for a hog to aerial or getup attack.
• Edge guarding sonic can certainly be tricky. Given the option, sonic will usually recovery high in order to avoid getting gimped by gw. You can harrass them with up airs or aerials on their way down, but decent air speed means they will usually get back mostly unscathed. If they choose to recover from below the stage grabbing them out of their up b will gimp them (just let them break out), or a dtilt/hog will work if they try to aerial/sweet spot the ledge.
• Sonic has a ton of combos/mixups. Side/down b's can be jumped out of after hitting you to have follow ups (springs/upairs/fairs/bairs/etc). Upthrows can string into up air/fairs if they chase you properly. Sonic has the mobility to chase for a lot of good combo's so watch out.
• Sonic can buffer out of the d/throwsmash combo, however his tech roll isn't too long so tech chases are certainly possible. Side/down b's certainly help sonic get out of up air spams, and his frame is sorta small, so nair combos get hurt a bit.

General Strategies:

• Overall sonic is a very hit and run character, especially against gw. Understand that you DO have large openings between your amazing hitboxes, and if anyone will be able to punish you for it, its sonic. He's very good at racking damage up, and a well placed smash can have you scratching your head as to where your stock went.
• Dtilt is good at stopping sonic out of his dashes/dash attacks etc, however a running powershield into a grab stops this. Be weary that sonic will likely land a lot of grabs against you to help rack damage up. Make sure to up b to safety to avoid long strings from being set up against you.
• Patience is a virtue in this matchup. Sonic players are very aware and used to the fact that they will probably have to wait a long time to be able to capitalize on openings from gw. If you can play patient and semi defensive, it can be very hard for them to get in. If you get too aggressive, sonic can certainly move around your hitboxes and then retaliate afterwards. Play around with your style vs sonic, but its likely that having to settle on a defensive one will yield the best results.
• Also keep in mind that sonic has the ability to cancel his spindashes with shield to stop himself before going. This can be a big mindgame in itself in close combat because you might expect him to hit you, airdodge, and then he would shieldcancel to a grab.

Stages:

• Many stages work for and against sonic, although i imagine anything that helps him kill sooner would help him out. Stages like green greens etc should probably be avoided.
• All the neutrals work well, however, open space helps sonic set things up, so avoid final d if at all possible.

 

[illinialex24]

Hey guys, I'm here from the Jigglypuff boards. I found that nair rocks in this matchup. If a G&W uses nair as a good spacing tool and the like, because it beats out everything she has but pound and because it is faster than I believe all her aerials, she is forced to try to mindgame and pound through you, which is essentially a worse version of the turtle. So start turtling and nairing and you have the match under wrap. However, if you try to space bairs and the like early on, its not nearly as broken as 80-20.

 

[Maniclysane]

80-20. Nuff said.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

80-20 is a little extreme. This is really bad for Jigglypuff (I can say this with decent knowledge of both sides of the matchup), but she's not completely hopeless. She has more aerial mobility than Mr. Game & Watch, and smart use of Rollout can be a bit of a bother (it seems so bad, but its priority is inconsistent and bizarre which makes it dangerous). Mr. Game & Watch's basic strategy is to follow her where she goes and press his range/power advantage aggressively so all she has to do to win is play flat out better consistently. Things like her fair and bair really aren't bad so it's not really unreasonable to see how she does it.

As per abusing nair, wouldn't Jigglypuff just wait to hit you until after it ended? I don't like throwing out random stuff against her; she is pretty good at hitting you for doing it (granted, she doesn't hit hard...).

I'd vote for 70-30.

 

[illinialex24]

I know but if you approach with an nair, she has very little options.

 

[PentaSalia]

Nair pretty much protects you from Jig because she's so floaty lol

but since Jiggly's attacks can still hit you while you're doing nair
best not to depend on nair,but consider doing it way more often
you'll both get hit at the same time,which is even i guess
if you space it well,you can use it to keep Jiggy away from you at least

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Out of all of G&W's matchups, I find this to be his best, and easiest to win. Both Jigglypuff and G&W have a highly air-centric game; Jigglypuff's ground game is almost unusable, while G&W has some quality moves like Dtilt and his smashes. The issue here is that G&W completely dominates Jigglypuff in the air.

Bair and Nair > Pretty much anything Jiggs can do in the air. Uair and Dair also have great vertical control, as Jiggly has no way to reliable way to deal with either one. Fair cleans up as well.

Dtilt and Chef are great ways to stop her aerial approaches, and Utilt is p. tasty too. And UpB!

G&W kills like a beast, whereas Jiggly just doesn't kill; the only time you should ever be dying below like 150 is if she lands a rest on you, otherwise she has very mediocre options. Rollout gets shutdown so very easily when in the air, and the grounded variant is extremely easy to avoid. Fair isn't that bad, but you shouldn't be getting killed early offstage by it, as you're upB is a good way to make her gtfo. Charged smashes are another possibility, so look out for those.

Rest is a decent move, though. It can kill you pretty early if she lands it, so be careful with your jabs, as she can SDI into you and lay on the hurt. If she misses, it's game over for her. Also, be glad that your Bair is disjointed

What else? Er, I dunno. You are pretty much ungimpable, while you can kill her offstage with fairs nicely. Oh yeah, Ledge camping in this matchup is way too good. Do it when you want to win!

85/15 is what I honestly feel this is. It's my most radical ratio, but I suppose I'm fine with 80/20 too.

 

[omegablackmage]

jiggs is probably good on norfair, frigate, and japes. not so good on RC and halberd.

ko's with usually fair, upsmash, rest, fsmash, even dash attack lol.

overall i see that she can't really get though gw's hitboxes, and thus has to work around them like sonic does, except that she doesn't quite have the speed for it. A decent character, just very ill suited to fight gw.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Green Greens should be another good stage against Jiggs, since she doesn't really like small ceilings so much (though Corneria does a better job at this), but I wouldn't know for sure. Brinstar? A Jiggly's input on stages would be good <3

Japes is what I think would be best vs G&W, as he does p. well on Norfair.

 

[Airgemini]

I agree with 80:20
You can stop most of our approaches, and you live so long.

I think your best stage against her would be JJ because you can Bucket Cancel about every KO move she throws at you.

 

[ShadowPhoenix951]

80-20 sounds about right. The only way Jiggs can hit you is if she throws out a pound, as it has ridiculous priority. It can usually stop MK's tornado.