Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

A2ZOMG

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I was talking about FF F-airs in my previous post, but if Marth does rising F-airs of any kind and you call/observe it, he should eat a F-air from you. Doing F-airs at about the same time he does tends to trade in your favor also.

Vs Marth either way is more of a player vs player matchup, dependent on how you adapt to what he does. His walls are not unstoppable, and his pressure if defended against is not usually completely safe.

Metaknight however no matter how hard you try to deliberately powershield or trick him into messing up his zoning, he's always able to maintain an advantageous position if he plays correctly due to the much less laggy and multihit nature of his moves. Marth has punishable commitment on all his strategies, which makes him much more manageable for G&W as long as you can figure out the opposing player in general.
 

Karcist

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As a Samus and G&W main, I have to disagree with the 65-35 matchup against Samus. I think it's 60-40 (still in favor of G&W though).
 

A2ZOMG

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I might agree with the ratio since I do play against a good Samus very frequently, but then again, I don't powershield nearly as consistently as I should.

It's pretty easy for G&W to pressure Samus when he works in range since she technically can't shieldgrab his B-air for instance, and he's one of the better characters at edgeguarding her.
 

moyshe

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I really dont think our MU thread is right anymore. except for our hard MU's. we need to re do pretty much all of it. I really dont think that luigi is 70/30.
 

PentaSalia

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yes it is 70/30
60/40 if it's a luigi stage or something

G&W can easily approach luigi and he can't do **** about it lmao
the only thing he has on us is that he can kill us pretty early with that fsmash which isn't much
 
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Luigi is honestly probably 60:40. This matchups swings on good Luigi stages (55:45) and on good G&W stages (65:35). The current ratio is clearly wrong, though. While we do have the clear advantage it never was THAT clear.

So yeah, I propose we do a quick vote or something in a separate thread and try and get more accurate listings and then use that to see where we dont agree with each other, instead of taking forever to just re-discuss all of his matchups on by one.

Like maybe we all can agree on Snake being 55:45 (this is just an example) and we don't agree with Toon Link (50-50 to 6:4 range). This means we don't go more depth into snake and just change his ratio and instead move onto an in depth discussion of TL.

Y/N?
 

Rajam

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:( The OP needs to be updated with the new ratios already re-discussed (TLink, DDD, ...). Also, some ratios are clarly outdated, specially those against Middle/Low Tiers (Ness, Luigi, ...)
 

A2ZOMG

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I base my problems off Boss.
It sucks getting r@ped.
Never bucket. Ever.
You will get owned.
Never Bucket when he can do a grounded Up-B. Simple as that. Go ahead and Bucket a fireball if you're at 0%. The most he can do if you're careful is like Jab D-smash, a U-tilt juggle, or he'll try for a D-throw mixup which doesn't exactly lead to anything guaranteed.

You can just Bucket offstage if he throws a fireball at you and he really isn't going to be able to do a whole ton about it.

Furthermore if he does manage to Jab you in close range, try mashing jump. This will consistently avoid the Up-B kill.

Otherwise he really doesn't have many answers to F-air, B-air, and D-tilt walls, and you edgeguard him extremely well while he doesn't have much on you. His N-air really doesn't work well in this matchup either when G&W outprioritizes it so easily and U-air juggling him is a breeze.

Beating him is like beating Donkey Kong. They both have a lot of shenanigans that are pretty easy to deal with overall and you can completely wreck both offensively with the right tactics. And either way, I'm pretty certain you have the matchup advantage against both characters.
 

Rajam

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Don't challenge Kirby fsmash with our fsmash, we always lose... Escape Kirby combo as soon as you can with up+b, and don't fall in the spotdodge+fsmash trick. As long as you watch Kirby's bair and fsmash, there shouldn't be problems. Playing a retreating game also helps, retreating fairs, bairs, even chef. Bucket Kirby up+b and just escape Kirby's strings with up+b asap

G&W 60:40 Kirby
 

A2ZOMG

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I think the matchup is 70/30 G&W, just because of how easily G&W destroys Kirby when juggling him and edgeguarding.

And for the record, Hylian beat Chu.
 

Noraa

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Never Bucket when he can do a grounded Up-B. Simple as that. Go ahead and Bucket a fireball if you're at 0%. The most he can do if you're careful is like Jab D-smash, a U-tilt juggle, or he'll try for a D-throw mixup which doesn't exactly lead to anything guaranteed.

You can just Bucket offstage if he throws a fireball at you and he really isn't going to be able to do a whole ton about it.

Furthermore if he does manage to Jab you in close range, try mashing jump. This will consistently avoid the Up-B kill.

Otherwise he really doesn't have many answers to F-air, B-air, and D-tilt walls, and you edgeguard him extremely well while he doesn't have much on you. His N-air really doesn't work well in this matchup either when G&W outprioritizes it so easily and U-air juggling him is a breeze.

Beating him is like beating Donkey Kong. They both have a lot of shenanigans that are pretty easy to deal with overall and you can completely wreck both offensively with the right tactics. And either way, I'm pretty certain you have the matchup advantage against both characters.

and also...its just Boss lol, hes just to gooddz
 

A2ZOMG

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G&W also outpokes him and outwalls him, and Kirby has like no really safe way to set up a kill on G&W lol.

While every time G&W grabs Kirby, it's like a free setup into **** and destruction. Kirby gets trapped so hard by G&W it's embarrassing.
 

Lightning Tiger

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Please explain that?
I was getting annoyed like hell when I was playing teams against a Kirby.
he just like SDI'd out my turtle/nair and punished.
What are my main options/choices against him?
 

PentaSalia

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Hylian covered up the match up nicely.

As far as I can tell many of you are not familiar with GW at all heh.

He edgeguards with dair by slowfalling it. If you fastfall GW's dair it slows it down a considerable amount and just puts a giant slow moving hitbox out to edgeguard with. On top of this you can change the fall speed whenever you want so say if I run off dair I just go fast till I get to them and can slow it down to punish dodges etc. It prevents you from using FC for the most part, I mean it even goes through marths up-b when he's recovering. Full hopped and slowfalled you don't fall very far and can use your second jump to cover all horizontal recovery options that most characters have. GW is pretty much the best character in the game aside from MK at edgeguarding MK(the hardest character in the game to edgeguard obviously) and that is mostly because of dair.

Now you're thinking "well we should be recovering high". No you shouldn't. GW is at his strongest against any character in the game when they are above him. GW controls vertical space far better than any other character due to his massive wind boxes on uair which lead to wasting jumps, frame traps, refreshing moves, combos, kills, etc. And guess what happens after GW gets a hit in? You get sent above him again. The best way to recover against GW is to try to get to the ledge safely. Recovering above the stage and landing on it basically isn't even an option considering how much GW players want you to do that.


Now, for the sake of people not just taking my word for GW beating kirby badly let's compare their movesets etc.

Pretty much all of GW's moves are disjointed and out prioritize and range kirbys moves. GW's bair and dair are very punishable if used as an approach but also very useful if used as a follow-up or frame trap.

Now look at the godly move that is GW's nair. 17% fresh, multiple hitboxes, combos into itself, and beat kirbys entire moveset. Seriously, you can try fsmashing GW's nair while he's facing away from you and you will be hit out of it. It autocancels and is not easy to punish at all. This move alone makes GW very hard to deal with for a good amount of characters(mainly lower tiered ones). You'll find the characters that shut down GW have easy ways to deal with this(MK's fair/upb/nado, Snakes shield into ftilt, motor slide, or just nades, diddys nanas, marths range and oos options, olimars pivot grab).

Aside from that you have dtilt, which hits kirby out of all aerials and can only really be punished by kirby by running powershield which is very telegraphed. This is a good follow up for dthrow as it will sometimes combo even if you tech. Gw's jabs interrupt all of kirbys moves and are great for getting grabs. Gw's fair beats all of kirbys moves in the air/ground and is really good to use OOS because it's guaranteed a lot making it hard to punish. It's also great for edgeguarding with high knockback when sweetspotted.

What does kirby do then? Kirbys zones. That's about it. If the GW is being silly and approching with bair/dair then just grab him all day lol but if they are smart and using bair cancels as approaching with nair/dtilt/crossupbairs etc then you will find yourself having a lot of trouble so you just want to bait moves and punish with bair, or maybe some fast tilts if you get to the ground. Condition for dodges for kills, pay attention to stage control, it doesn't do any good to hit GW with fsmash at 150% if he flys across FD because he will just BB it. After you fthrow uair at low %'s GW will always up-b away and cancel it into a fast fall. This is punishable but if he still has hit jump it's really not since GW can jump after using his up-b. Try to keep a lead and force approches, always doing retreating moves unless you have a guaranteed hit. Don't attack GW's shield unless it's with bair and you are running away after lol.

That's all I have for now I guess.
kirby boards are stubborn:l
 
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Hylian covered up the match up nicely.



kirby boards are stubborn:l
Can we do Mario Next
Basically His Cape,Up-smash,Fireballs,Double aerials,B-air->D-Smash low percents,U-air-Platform High percents
He has Blind Fireball cancel so he's hard to kill you may have to jump. His aerials have almost no lag when he SHFFLs them and his standing pivot grab game at mid-high percents is pretty damage racking
For example IF you turbo Up-special you'll recover from snake's AAA at 160% with a high angle. Also Fireballs act like ROB's gyros and allow you to gyro cancel.
 
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