Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

[NatP]

Well, IMO, rc helps the diddy matchup like ALOT. Going FD is just suicide, though.

 

[DMG]

You cannot SH Nair his shield and get away with it 100%. He can SH toss a banana at you if you try to retreat.

 

[PentaSalia]

i never said it was 100% dark magician girl xD
but you can always up and B out after to avoid the naner if u feel at risk

 

[UTDZac]

I've played my fair share of Diddys out there. The matchup is, without a doubt, in Diddy's favor. It is not even. I'm not going to go into a long discussion of why I, personally, think it's that way, as you guys have already done much of that.

And honestly, please take the discussion to the matchup export threads. That's what I made them for, to further organize our discussions about certain matchups. Thanks!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244495

I'll be making more matchup threads later this week for other characters. Stay tuned!

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I dont think anyone thinks its even lol. It's agreed that it's Diddy's advantage, the thing I was arguing to which degree. I really disagree with 65:45, personally.

Regardless...

How the **** do you beat a competent Marth? What a pain in the *** lol. I can beat Snakes and MKs, and the rare Diddys, but Marth is a tough one.

 

[Inferno3044]

Mario boards are discussing G&W:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=256410&page=9

 

[Vinnie]

I'm just gonna switch characters on certain matchups, probably use MK on Marth :/.

 

[Splice]

I'm just gonna switch characters on certain matchups, probably use MK on Marth :/.

Yeah I may do that as well. Like you PGN i sorta nearly quit GaW a few times (never played as anyone but him in tournament though), but now it's becoming apparent that I need GaW, but at the same time, I'm generally screwed against Diddy and Marth, however lacking they may be in my state.

So I might be using MK for Marth and maybe MK dittos (unlikely)
And uh, Jigglypuff for Diddy Kong

Hopefully the F tier character balances out the S tier character

 

[UTDZac]

Yeah I can't figure Marth out either =(

If it's a smart Marth player (I've had the pleasure of playing both RoyR and MikeHaze) it becomes really really hard to jump in there and do damage.

 

[Kofu]

Is it possible to outrange diagonally his FAir with our DTilt?
I doubt it is, but it's worth testing.

His DTilt outranges everything(?) we've got horizontally though.

 

[UTDZac]

I promised I would get more export threads out, they're coming eventually. T.T

Almost done with school and stuff

 

[Yink]

Okay now that Zac and I are done editing and posting the wrong stuff,

Spoiler

JK I love you Zac <3

...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258842

Ness boards are discussing GaW. I'd love it if you guys helped us out. Thanks a lot.

 

[Today]

D: I hope this thread gets updated soon!

 

[Noraa]

we need to go over marth *tear* ....like we need to just put "use someone else" lol

 

[Magus-Cie]

What is so bad about the Gnw vs Marth matchup?

 

[Vinnie]

What is so bad about the Gnw vs Marth matchup?

It's known as his worst matchup. Marth is really the only character that can literally shut him down. Hell, he can ever SDI the bair into fair side b lol x_x.

I practice with Mintyflesh, who is ranked 5th in NY and one of the best Marths. I play with him once out of ever 2 weeks pretty much, usually at sleepovers or something.

Marth can:
-Up b oos (out of shield) your bair
-outrange you in every way
-fullhop double fair its a ***** get by
-grab release fair, always tipper. Good for killing and also good for comboing if you're at a certain %.
-he has comboes that gnw can't afford to get hit by. 37%? On the 2nd lightest character in the game? :/
-Bucket braking his up b is very hard, you need to have perfect reaction time to DI it up, and bucket brake, otherwise you die at like 80%.
-he can bait you like no tomorrow ;-;


The only tool you have to get by his spacing is fair, and by limiting yourself to one option, you're basically shutting yourself down.

Oh and lol try killing him XD gl with that lolol

other stuff too, once you get the chance to play a good Marth, you'll want to change mains lol. IMO 3:7 MU. Diddy is 35:65. Anything past that is no worse than 4:6.

 

[Zekeishere]

If you ever get under Marth, keep him above yo. He can't do crap. :k

 

[Vinnie]

If only that were true :/

 

[Noraa]

iv been playing neo about 3or4 times a week since we live like 5 mins away and no doubt in my mind....gw can not win this lol.
it gets to a point where i pat my self on the back if i take 1 stock....-_-

 

[A2ZOMG]

If you guys really think that Marth is harder than Metaknight, you're not doing the matchup right.

Learn to SDI Dancing Blade, your F-air doesn't need to kill him when you can just gimp him. G&W's ground game is still valuable when you're actually in range. Powershielding F-air can work since Marth usually has to use F-air from specific positions. And those juggles you have are always useful.

Metaknight however is able to outspace and outzone you from all positions, and has a more dominating ground game, while Marth becomes extremely limited once he's pressured offstage or above you. Marth also will get punished hard for whiffing a kill move, while this will never happen to Metaknight.

 

[Noraa]

if they know you are going to sdi out out of db...they can just stop and start another and or grab you...all that stuff you just said just makes no sense

yeah we can juggle but we have to get under him first which is going to be rare.
you can ps his fair but if your playing a smart one they will just delay a lil and ff fair spaced so they can follow with a jab or ftilt.

i mean your right but its all about how to get in the position to get safe damage

spacing is the issue and some other things

 

[A2ZOMG]

if they know you are going to sdi out out of db...they can just stop and start another and or grab you...all that stuff you just said just makes no sense

Marth's Dancing Blade is unsafe on hit if you SDI it correctly. And no he's not going to grab you if you're attempting to SDI it. You're much more likely to be able to jump out of the way. If you shield it, he's screwed unless he spaced it at maximum range (where it's also easiest to escape) because you can guaranteed shieldgrab him after the third hit, and free F-smash after the fourth move.

yeah we can juggle but we have to get under him first which is going to be rare.

Not so rare when most of his zoning is aerial based. Besides, it's unfavorable for him to trade hits with G&W's F-air, since he's more likely to get gimped, and it outdamages him.

you can ps his fair but if your playing a smart one they will just delay a lil and ff fair spaced so they can follow with a jab or ftilt.

No loss for shielding too early really, and besides, his stuff isn't completely safe on block.

 

[Megavitamins]

why the **** would a GOOD marth ever full dancing blade somebody's shield

marth destroys gaw lmao

 

[PentaSalia]

marth destroys gaw lmao

shut up Minty D:<

 

[moyshe]

If you ever get under Marth, keep him above yo. He can't do crap. :k

lol I lol'd at this one. I've noticed a high abundance of new comers these last couple weeks. We need less 3 post kids and more actually good kids.

 

[Noraa]

why the **** would a GOOD marth ever full dancing blade somebody's shield

marth destroys gaw lmao

did i not just say the first part lol....the match up to me is 100-gotoloserbracketgg

 

[Today]

XD I rather fight a Metaknight than a Marth any time..

 

[PentaSalia]

you gota remember that not all marths are (insert top marth) good <,<
so just cuz u get one doesnt mean it's an auto lose lol

 

[Noraa]

yeah your right pent =[
i guess we need to just works at itt, yippie skippy

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Marth is one of the matchups I don't feel confident enough about. Could anyone fish up some quality videos of the matchup? I've only played like 10 different marths since brawl's release, only like 2 being good.

The advice getting him above you isn't bad, but we definitely don't destroy him while he's there. MK is easier to deal with when above you than Marth, imo.

 

[Noraa]

i also need help with lucario matchup =[
what we have is out of date...

 

[A2ZOMG]

Vs Lucario is very straightforward. Space well, don't get baited by F-smash/rolls/Aura Sphere, **** him offstage. There really isn't anything else to know about that matchup.

Vs Marth is really just about learning to react to DB properly, trading hits with him with F-airs (and outdamaging him this way), and dominating juggle/edgeguard wars. Marth's zoning is far from unbeatable, since he actually has lag between moves and can suffer when you powershield his moves, and is beatable if you as a player can learn to adapt to the opposing Marth's playstyle quirks. MK however is a character who legitimately can be close to untouchable if he doesn't make a mistake.

 

[Noraa]

like i dont think you know the marth MU at all....
what marths do you play lol and how many times have you played it

 

[Splice]

Vs trading hits with him with F-airs (and outdamaging him this way)

This ain't Melee my friend.

 

[A2ZOMG]

It isn't Melee, but G&W's F-air is still his best aerial. You should be using this MUCH more than B-air in most matchups in general. It's really not unsafe on block properly spaced, it does massive damage that never gets SDIed, and stale moves doesn't matter that much to G&W when U-air juggles can pick up the slack for him. You have a significant zoning advantage to relying on F-airs over B-airs since you don't have to compromise forward momentum to buffer F-airs.

I have competitive friends at my dorm who use Marth, and I've played against Bardul and MikeHaze before (a long time ago though). Also, my Marth happens to be competitively competent.

Seriously though, randomly throwing out F-airs (not randomly, but intelligently breaking Marth's zoning) works very well against him. It's not exactly simple for Marth to wall this out, and the reward (damagewise) is in your favor.

Again if you really think this matchup is horrible and worse than MK, you're not playing it correctly. Marth has beatable zoning that hinges on a precise balance of spacing and timing. You can break his zoning either by powershielding or fitting in moves between his attacks. The matchup largely depends on how well you as a player adapt, and how good your reactions are. MK on the other hand legitimately can play a certain way that G&W has very few answers to deal with.

Plus, Marth is ultimately more vulnerable to juggles and edgeguards, and if you're not damaging him significantly from these positions, you also need to work on your playstyle.

Also...In case you don't do it yet, learn the ledgehop F-air autocancel. It REALLY helps.

 

[Splice]

All the stuff that was said

Look Fair seriously isn't his best aerial, maybe his best kill move... I guess if you have too much trouble killing with other moves then you may rely on it and think it is his greatest aerial so that's fine.

You shouldn't be using it more than Bair or Nair though... It's goodness only comes from it's useage being planned out imo. Using it that much will just get punished, because it is too telegraphed. Plus if you end up hitting Marths sheild with Fair you pretty much always get hit.

Marth is worse offstage than MK and cant get to the ground as easily after being juggled (unless the MK got Uair'd after UpB), but in a spacing game vs GaW, Marth is much better than MK.

Powersheilding and fitting moves in between the opponents attacks is obvious, I mean what else are you gonna do when they play as that Marthy style that Marths do.

Juggling Marth is all well and good but y'know I don't use Fair for my juggling but the other aerials

Also your ledge hop Fair cancel AT is the only GaW AT i've tried to do but I don't understand your explanation at all and theres no vids so i don't know what it looks like so yeah.

Anyway I don't have any personal problems with the Marth MU at all really, just sayin' that I really think you overestimate the viability of Fair as if it's the answer for everything. I can accept that you found a nice ledge trick and you think it's good for zoning or whatever but it just seems like it's your answer to most everything.

 

[DMG]

Marth can shield a full powered Fair, tipper range, retreating, and still punish it.

That SUCKS HARD lol.

 

[Noraa]

It isn't Melee, but G&W's F-air is still his best aerial. You should be using this MUCH more than B-air in most matchups in general. It's really not unsafe on block properly spaced, it does massive damage that never gets SDIed, and stale moves doesn't matter that much to G&W when U-air juggles can pick up the slack for him. You have a significant zoning advantage to relying on F-airs over B-airs since you don't have to compromise forward momentum to buffer F-airs.

I have competitive friends at my dorm who use Marth, and I've played against Bardul and MikeHaze before (a long time ago though). Also, my Marth happens to be competitively competent.

Seriously though, randomly throwing out F-airs (not randomly, but intelligently breaking Marth's zoning) works very well against him. It's not exactly simple for Marth to wall this out, and the reward (damagewise) is in your favor.

Again if you really think this matchup is horrible and worse than MK, you're not playing it correctly. Marth has beatable zoning that hinges on a precise balance of spacing and timing. You can break his zoning either by powershielding or fitting in moves between his attacks. The matchup largely depends on how well you as a player adapt, and how good your reactions are. MK on the other hand legitimately can play a certain way that G&W has very few answers to deal with.

Plus, Marth is ultimately more vulnerable to juggles and edgeguards, and if you're not damaging him significantly from these positions, you also need to work on your playstyle.

Also...In case you don't do it yet, learn the ledgehop F-air autocancel. It REALLY helps.

im not saying its impossible, but you are down playing the MU alot. I know it depends on the marth but, if its a above average one...they will ff the fairs to jab/ftilt....gl getting in. they obviously know dont let them get underneath you. if we dont get below them , its gg.

and on another note...NOTHING IS SAFE ON MARTHS SHIELD. they can upb every airmove on shield, depending on if they want to or not.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Marth can shield a full powered Fair, tipper range, retreating, and still punish it.

That SUCKS HARD lol.

With what? Dancing Blade?

Splice you don't get how G&W is supposed to play. F-air is G&W's best zoning tool. Better than B-air overall. B-air is nice but is a more committed move that is prone to SDI and ultimately does less damage. N-air isn't that important for zoning except against Olimar and Diddy.

The ledgehop autocancel is simple. It's all about perfectly buffering a F-air immediately after jump (which you know happens since the sound clip for G&W's jump won't play when you perfect buffer it), and you have much more leeway when ledgedropping. Take your time when ledgedropping and focus on frame perfect buffering the jump+F-air.

Also, I really can't see how you're just going to let Marth FF F-air with impunity. That strategy is pretty precise and specific by nature. Yeah it's gay that he can Up-B before shieldgrab comes out though if he does it perfectly, but the rest of his ground moves really are not safe either if you react correctly.

 

[Ruuku]

A2ZOMG, you're talking about rising F-airs, right? You might want to specify. Also, upBs and U-airs are very useful in that matchup if you fully understand the properties of the two moves.