Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

[Vinnie]

Or just shield and grab...

 

[A2ZOMG]

pgn, you're not approaching those matchups correctly.

Olimar, D-tilt and N-air deflect pikmin, and he CAN'T punish it on reaction. Stage control him to death.

Ike's F-air is perfectly punishable on powershield if you just F-air or dashgrab or dash attack. Ike loses to patient players, and furthermore, you can basically U-throw juggle him for free.

 

[Vinnie]

pgn, you're not approaching those matchups correctly.

Olimar, D-tilt and N-air deflect pikmin, and he CAN'T punish it on reaction. Stage control him to death.

Ike's F-air is perfectly punishable on powershield if you just F-air or dashgrab or dash attack. Ike loses to patient players, and furthermore, you can basically U-throw juggle him for free.

Tell me, what's to stop Olimar from camping his pikmin until your approach, and then pivot grabbing your approach?

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W can easily approach Olimar if you're patient. He can't grab SH N-airs, and N-airs can hit him.

As I was saying, stage control him until your N-air hits him. He really can't do much about it provided you're careful.

 

[Vinnie]

He can't grab SH N-airs, and N-airs can hit him.

shield usmash. to uair combo if at low %.

 

[PentaSalia]

pgn, you're not approaching those matchups correctly.

Olimar, D-tilt and N-air deflect pikmin, and he CAN'T punish it on reaction. Stage control him to death.

Ike's F-air is perfectly punishable on powershield if you just F-air or dashgrab or dash attack. Ike loses to patient players, and furthermore, you can basically U-throw juggle him for free.

lol smart ikes won't make their fairs obvious
besides,if ike happens to miss a fair,his jab comes out fast enough to keep G&W back

and its true u can uair juggle him easily
but again, a smart ike won't let u approach them easily so you can't just say
"he can air juggle him easily,ike gets *****"

also once G&W is at 80%,he's already at killing %
he'll have to be careful about air juggling him/aerial approaches because ike's uair or weak dair can easily kill them
and going for dashgrab or dash attacks is too risky

 

[DMG]

Dash attack is G&W's third best move. True story.

 

[A2ZOMG]

shield usmash. to uair combo if at low %.

This should never hit you when you space N-airs correctly.

lol smart ikes won't make their fairs obvious
besides,if ike happens to miss a fair,his jab comes out fast enough to keep G&W back

Doesn't matter. If you really want to, you can just learn to powershield his F-air on reaction.

B-air outspaces Jab.

and its true u can uair juggle him easily
but again, a smart ike won't let u approach them easily so you can't just say
"he can air juggle him easily,ike gets *****"

Don't get baited, calmly powershield or defend against F-airs, and outspace his Jabs, or shieldgrab him out of them.

also once G&W is at 80%,he's already at killing %
he'll have to be careful about air juggling him/aerial approaches because ike's uair or weak dair can easily kill them
and going for dashgrab or dash attacks is too risky

Ike can't do anything to kill that isn't easily avoided. His B-air doesn't kill until like 110% reliably anyway, and weak D-air kills later. U-air is also telegraphed.

G&W on the other hand can focus on F-airs either for KOs or edgeguards.

 

[PentaSalia]

i want to know the kind of ike's you've faced where they jab into air so u can bair them lol


ike doesn't have to rely on fair for this MU
too many people get it wrong
there's no need for him to spam it that much where u can "predict them"

and power shielding isn't going to happen all the time >.>

 

[A2ZOMG]

Doesn't change anything. G&W still has significantly better tools for approaching and defending himself, and that in the highest level play, Ike is too limited to do anything as long as a better character is patient. Combined with G&W's superior juggling and edgeguarding, it's definitely more than 55/45 in G&W's favor.

Granted, I will point out that G&W is very badly represented in general due to him being more difficult to use than Ike.

 

[Vinnie]

About the Diddy matchup, how the hell do you think that's even? Who are the Diddies you have beaten to think this, also. Even ADHD told me that he thinks it's 65:35, and that he'll never ever lose to one.

 

[PentaSalia]

he lost to one a few days ago

har har har
nah...that's mean


but yea,ima agree with PGN that it is not close to even lol

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Dash attack is G&W's third best move. True story.

^^agreed.

Ike can safely space a fair, there's no doubt about it. To say "not if you power shield" is not a legit argument.

It comes down to what everyone else is saying. Nair, a lot. Be incredibly offensive, but not stupidly so. Ike's not a bad character, he's one of few people still underestimate, a lot. In fact, before all is said and done, I wouldn't be surprised to find Ike and G&W in the same tier. But G&W is a better and faster character, in most aspects. Abuse them.

(btw, up-b windbox-push ike under the lip of pokemon stadium when he's trying to recover. It works 99% of the time)

diddy > G&W

my reasoning behind that has already been stated by others

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Ike v G&W is def. 55:45.
Diddy is only 6:4 at MOST, though I do agree he's a bigger threat than Snake.

 

[Vinnie]

Ike v G&W is def. 55:45.
Diddy is only 6:4 at MOST, though I do agree he's a bigger threat than Snake.

How can you say this >_<

You can't touch him.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Maybe you cant LOL.
Actually the "at most" could and should be removed. I think 6:4 perfectly fit the matchup. Also Marth is about as hard as Diddy, but I dont agree with how bad your list showed them being.

 

[Vinnie]

Maybe you cant LOL.
Actually the "at most" could and should be removed. I think 6:4 perfectly fit the matchup. Also Marth is about as hard as Diddy, but I dont agree with how bad your list showed them being.

The only diddies in my region are Ninjalink & ADHD, I don't play against ordinary diddies which fall for stupid ****. Which is why I don't feel very happy about this matchup, because the 2 best diddies in the world go to every tourney I'm at.

 

[kewl]

i do gotta agree with PGN on this one.
i play the best diddy in Panama quiet often, and the matchup is hard, winnible, but hard.
65:35 tbh.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I'm sorta in your region too, PGN, though I havent played them. Frankly, I don't care much at all how you think the matchup is, as your opinion doesnt really dictate how the matchup is played. Granted, Diddy is a bad matchup which we both agree on, but you think its as bad for us as the CF vs G&W matchup.

Not to mention your opinion on the ICs matchup at all...

 

[Vinnie]

Not to mention your opinion on the ICs matchup at all...

?

And why don't you attend tourneys :/

 

[kewl]

ICs should be more a 45-55. get under them, nair separates them easily, and nana is so stupid, she's easily gimped while not even trying.
the only thing they got is the amazing blizzard space, and the grab, that's why you space right and dont go in blindly throwing out turtles. that just fails.

you definantly can't play aggro vs them.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I live in New Hampshire. That should be a sufficient answer lol. Mass is the closest scene to me, but it's still hard because im not a driver.

I am hosting like the first NH tournament in ages though on Saturday!

And in my opinion we still have the advantage on ICs. I argued a little bit about it in the G&WBR not that long ago. It being an even matchup is fine too, however. Losing to them as much as MK is ridiculous though.

 

[ADHD]

I think it's 65-35 in Diddy's favor (offline.) Diddy's shield is amazing, and diddy can merely just shield and punish g&w's traditional aerial spacing game. He has literally no approaches, you have to tickle your way into baiting a mistake, then punish. That's all g&w can do, and it's easier said than done. Game and watch has no way to deal with an aggressive camping style that I use on them, and I can't name a move that he has with not enough lag to be punished by a 3-frame toss OOS. Trying to kill diddy with laggy smashes when all can be tripped is simply miserable.

If diddy plays it perfectly all G&W is capable of doing in the MU is hopping up and down.

 

[kewl]

i agree with you ADHD 100%.

the matchup consists of gw basically just baiting and running away most of the time. its a very silly matchup and i hate it.

 

[Vinnie]

I dun really like the boards anymore, way 2 many theoryfighters, no offense a2z / esc, you guys are cool but it's annoying when you say stuff like, the diddy matchup is close, and that we beat ICs, and that Marth is very managable, etc :/.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Wow.
"If diddy plays it perfectly all G&W is capable of doing in the MU is hopping up and down."

I don't think an intelligent debate can be salvaged from this. PGN, if you're gonna get people to fight your fights, then at least get someone who can actually discuss without making ******** (not to mention the quote which is ******** AND irrelevant) points.

 

[Vinnie]

PGN, if you're gonna get people to fight your fights

It's not fighting a fight as much as proving an obvious point that pretty much only you disagree with.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

What was "proven", may I ask?
That ADHD thinks G&W is a terrible character who loses to a good shield and a fast move? That was certainly the only thing made obvious.

 

[ADHD]

A good shield, and a move that punishes everything quickly when you land no matter how you space it. What other character can do that to g&w? It makes him have to fight a different way, and g&w is too limited to do that. He can only get campier..

 

[kewl]

LOL don't worry PGN, i'm pretty much all in with you.
sure you guys might think diddy isn't that hard, but when you play top player diddys and marth, which we got one of each here in Panama, you'll start thinking like us.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Since when has Panama been known for their top marths and diddys, that RIVAL the real top Diddys and Marths?

Regardless, implying G&W is too limited to put up a fight against Diddy means this argument is over, however short it was.

 

[ADHD]

K cuz you won the arguement by simply saying it's over. He's a limited character. What I'm trying to say is, he can't change up his general game to beat diddy's natural ability of fighting.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I never said I won any argument; in fact I really didnt argue at all. What I did say, however, was that this little "discussion" is over. It was already onesided because I didnt want to discuss with someone obviously wrong about one of the two characters being discussed, but it's now over because I wont be supplying you with more posts.

Brush up your reading comprehension perhaps.

and FYI, all characters are limited lmao. I dont see any of them performing moves they dont have lol.

 

[Vinnie]

I never said I won any argument; in fact I really didnt argue at all. What I did say, however, was that this little "discussion" is over. It was already onesided because I didnt want to discuss with someone obviously wrong about one of the two characters being discussed, but it's now over because I wont be supplying you with more posts.

Brush up your reading comprehension perhaps.

and FYI, all characters are limited lmao. I dont see any of them performing moves they dont have lol.

You had no rebuttal to his main points though...

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Mainly because the premise to his entire post is that G&W is a bad and very limited character. If I were to actually respond to his points it would be saying I dont think his underlying theme is completely ridiculous (which it really is). Even if he were to try to redo his post and remove the foolishness, it doesnt matter now because he's already shown himself as having an opinion that makes his views on this matchup as significantly biased. Differing opinions is never outright bad, its just when you're basing an argument off your opinion alone.

Whereas your argument was "I play good Diddy's and lose, therefore the matchup is THIS bad". Maybe if I actually considered you as good as those Diddy's you mentioned would I put weight into your opinion, but as it stands you just seem like a slightly worse player than those two who is making a call off of matches with them.

Just to let you know where I am coming from. I don't mean any outright disrespect by this towards you, PGN. I acknowledge you are in fact better than myself and in a more competitive region, but that doesn't by itself mean much in the way of deciding a ratio.

 

[moyshe]

shoot more peanuts.

 

[kewl]

Since when has Panama been known for their top marths and diddys, that RIVAL the real top Diddys and Marths?

Regardless, implying G&W is too limited to put up a fight against Diddy means this argument is over, however short it was.

i meant top marth and diddys in the country.

no matter, we'll show what Panama has in store for everyone at Pound 4. heh.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I think it's 65-35 in Diddy's favor (offline.) Diddy's shield is amazing, and diddy can merely just shield and punish g&w's traditional aerial spacing game. He has literally no approaches, you have to tickle your way into baiting a mistake, then punish. That's all g&w can do, and it's easier said than done. Game and watch has no way to deal with an aggressive camping style that I use on them, and I can't name a move that he has with not enough lag to be punished by a 3-frame toss OOS. Trying to kill diddy with laggy smashes when all can be tripped is simply miserable.

If diddy plays it perfectly all G&W is capable of doing in the MU is hopping up and down.

He can however SH N-air your shield and get away with it.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ike's not a bad character, he's one of few people still underestimate, a lot.

Ike is horrible bottom tier garbage. I've argued it before, but it all comes down to options.

He has next to no viable options. Everything not named Jab or F-air is always punishable on reaction, and F-air even is iffy because that move happens to be powershieldable on reaction. Not even his Jab is failsafe, because it's shieldgrabbable between hits.

Ike has no approach to speak of, so he loses like 7/3 to Samus, and even Link beats him. DDD also CRUSHES Ike like 8/2, and ROB also is a massive pain for Ike to deal with that's also likely 7/3. All these characters can just camp Ike and shieldgrab him.

His tilts are also powershieldable on reaction, his Smashes are horribly unsafe, his aerials are MASSIVELY laggy in general, especially in terms of aerial ending lag. He has no combos or followups besides Jab canceled tricks, and his edgeguarding is quite possibly the worst in the entire game. He's the one character in this game besides Snake who cannot do two aerials in a jump.

He is however a very good noob killer. Noobs who don't learn good reaction and proper conservative play do get punished severely by his high power, but Ike's problem is that there is nothing he can do that isn't easily avoided and punished. He has no respectable frame advantages.

EDIT: Whoops, double post. <_<

 

[PentaSalia]

SH nair helps in the diddy match up for sure

but it isn't enough lol

as pointed out,all that G&W can do is be a smart camper

ima agree with 35:65

40:60 on a good stage :o