Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

[Ravin]

orly?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFEQZrT-MpI

<3

 

[Xyro77]

If Samus tries really hard, she can beat a good Game & Watch.

i disagree.

the only thing we have on GW is that our UP+B can beat the key if we hit the side GW is holding.

our d-tilt KOs him pretty easily(low %'s). and if we shield his key well enough thats how we get in the d-tilt.

oh and falling u-air to down smash wors 90% of the time(gw shield is trash)

Sure we have zair(4% or 7%) but honestly, ANYBODY who has played samus or can power shield well will eliminate 80% of samus style(missles/zair)

honestly though, samus is 35 on this one. gw-65

 

[omegablackmage]

why does everyone say gw's shield is bad, aren't the shields much more balanced in this game? ie the worst shield in the game is still really reliable?

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W's shield is actually good in Brawl. Not like, as good at maybe like Olimar's, but it's still better than many shields in actually covering G&W's frame. Now, I will point out G&W has pretty limited offensive out of shield options unless he gets a powershield. =/

 

[The Milk Monster]

i disagree.

the only thing we have on GW is that our UP+B can beat the key if we hit the side GW is holding.

our d-tilt KOs him pretty easily(low %'s). and if we shield his key well enough thats how we get in the d-tilt.

oh and falling u-air to down smash wors 90% of the time(gw shield is trash)

Sure we have zair(4% or 7%) but honestly, ANYBODY who has played samus or can power shield well will eliminate 80% of samus style(missles/zair)

honestly though, samus is 35 on this one. gw-65

I agree with most all of this.
I would imagine the uair to dsmash brings the shield down enough to have the down smash hit his feet I guess.
Keeping that barrage of missiles going keeps that little bit of pressure up I guess, but getting a powershield really gives you a ton of options, regardless if you have good OoS options.(Unless it is the zair, then the Samus should probably prepare for a powershield.)
That match up percent does sound pretty good though.

 

[Hylian]

I used to main samus so I've never even had the slightest problem absolutly destroying any samus I have played.

I don't really think I can fairly judge this match-up haha.

Oh, and samus doesn't HAVE a kill move. Her best kill move doesn't KO GW till like %120+ LOL. That's with GW being the 3rd lightest character in the game.

 

[Royta]

Like Hylian stated, we won't be killing you untill high above the 100% damage, spiking will be VERY hard to do since GaW's recovery is pretty much almost impossible to gimp..

The only thing we have going for us is that we don't have to make an approach, GaW has to come to us! Now that I think about it...that's a disadvantage. At close combat we'll be destroyed by his air-moves and the only thing we can do about it is pray we'll be able to kite him away.

Does Zair beat your Bair btw?

 

[Tero.]

lol don't even think of spiking G&W's recovery

 

[Ravin]

You can spike a G&W recovery. O.x I think its the hardest one to hit.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah, you can spike G&W's Up-B if he spaces it HORRIBLY and you manage to get him after his invul frames end. It's not 100% unbeatable, but if he knows how to recover, he shouldn't be spiked like...at all by anyone, except Falco from the CG.

 

[ShadowPhoenix951]

No, not even from Falco. I've never gotten hit by his dair, even after the chaingrab. You have just enough time to respond with an Up B.

 

[_Phloat_]

Unless, of course, the falco knows how to play the game well.

 

[Crystanium]

I don't have any experience against Samus at all really, but I'm calling shenanigans on her being even half as good at projectile camping as Link. Samus's projectiles are slower than Link's, linear as opposed to able to go in just about any direction like Link's, don't bounce off shields and remain dangerous like Link's bombs, and don't come back to her ever. How is Samus having two missiles on the screen at once a big deal when Link always has two far more unpredictable projectiles on the screen at once and can go up to three pretty easily? I'm pretty sure just on inspection of her moveset that her silly tether attack (her best move by far) is the only thing that seriously impedes Mr. Game & Watch's approach at all.

I am quite serious about what I am going to say, Amazing Ampharos. May I take the time to brawl with you? Maybe I haven't brawled with any good Mr. Game & Watch players, so what do you say?

 

[Royta]

Try approaching a perfectly spacing Samus, it can be a pain ..

Our projectiles in this match are more of a neat distraction to our other moves but they won't kill you or do any amount of significant damage. Then again this is a fact against all characters pretty much. Homing missles force you to either use a reflect attack (which we use to fire a Zair) or to force you to shield (which sets us up for a grab), its more a way to limit your options then deal hard damage.

@ dryn, let us know how the match went^^

@ GaW users, are there any European users reading? I live in Holland, maybe we can do a small online match to further 'work out' some details! Greetz

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I am quite serious about what I am going to say, Amazing Ampharos. May I take the time to brawl with you? Maybe I haven't brawled with any good Mr. Game & Watch players, so what do you say?

I would ordinarily accept except for a few minor details. I have no WiFi when I'm not at home (which I won't be until March) and further my Wii is broken. Unless taking a thousand mile trip to the incredibly boring Rolla, MO sounds fun to you, it's just not possible.

 

[Tero.]

@ GaW users, are there any European users reading? I live in Holland, maybe we can do a small online match to further 'work out' some details! Greetz

I'm european and i live in germany, i don't play online tho. You should come to SMACK, it's a really big european tournament in Bremen, Germany.

 

[omegablackmage]

Samus: (65/35)

General Matchup:

• Samus has a few attributes that keep her afloat: projectiles, abuse able range, and weight to some extent. Good recovery and edgeguarding help bolster her abilities.
• Her best range/priority lies in her grapple/zair. Beyond this, up b has good priority with little range, but fsmash, ftilt, bair, up air also have pretty good range.
• Kill moves may vary with samus, but mostly they are the charge shot, dtilt, dsmash, uptilt, upsmash, fsmash, and bair, however these moves require you to be beyond 100 percent usually to land the kill.
• She has one of the better spikes in the game, so watch out for that move. Other than that, zairs, and random projectiles will probably be her best means to edgeguard you.
• Her recovery is very good, with bombs, grapples, good up b, etc to help her back. Unless she tosses a zair your way, your aerials all should be able to interrupt her, so use fairs, bacons, up b's etc to interrupt her and rack damage up.
• Slightly above average roll lengths, and a bufferable roll from the dthrow will make it difficult to follow anything up, so only use this on platforms and/or situations where you think you can punish a roll. Up air spamming works fine, her air move speed isn't particularly amazing, and has no moves in particular to interrupt gw or help her shift momentum drastically. She is tall, and pretty heavy, so use that to your advantage in nair combos etc.
• Samus's combos might involve up airs to up b's or dtilts, missles to zairs, and so fourth, however, samus is a pretty hit and run character for the most part.

General Strategies:

• As a general rule, samus will be using missles and bombs to force you to make mistakes, not really to camp you. So make sure to cancel these moves out w/o putting yourself in a bad situation, or you will get zaired. They won't be spamming charge shots, because this would be risky, however they will use a fully charged one if they see the opening, so don't feel invulnerable to it.
• She is pretty heavy, thus tough to kill, especially with a good recovery, but she also has a pretty large problem killing in this game, and will probably be in the same boat as you, if not worse. She doesn't kill up that well, and bucket brakes will really help to extend your stocks for the side and diagonal kills. Work on maximizing your range when near her, the dtilt is probably the move you should watch the most out for, probably around 120-130 range.
• Overall this matchup will come down to how well you deal with the projectiles and the zair, which if you can do well, you should destroy samus without too much trouble. Most samus players will specialize in this area, so don't take it too lightly.

Stages:

• Any stage really works fine against samus, FO maybe being the better one, depending on how the camp missiles. Halberd, cruise, etc all work fine.
• Maybe avoid norfair, which gives them the room to camp, and many ledges to play around with. Any other large stage would probably be avoidable as well, such as japes.

 

[Judge Judy]

Mario VS G&W is a very interesting match-up when both players know it well. I can start by throwing some pros and cons out there.

Pros:

+G&W is not easily gimped by Mario and will be gimping Mario much more consistently than vice-versa; one of G&W's greatest assets against Mario

+G&W's kill power > Mario's by a lot; one of G&W's greatest assets in the match-up since Mario has a tough time landing early kills outside his Fsmash and gimps

+Bucket limits fireball spam; Mario basically has to use fireballs carefully and avoid overusing them

+G&W generally has better priority; some exceptions like Mario's Up B and cape

+G&W generally has better range; some exceptions like the cape and Mario's Bair


Cons:

-Mario has very noticeable frame advantages on most atks; almost all of Mario's atks come out several frames earlier than G&W's

-FIHL breaks down G&W's approaches; one of the most important things Mario has in this match-up

-Hard to get Mario off once he's inside G&W's range; partially has to do with juggling, but some of it is just G&W's lack of a good GTFO off me move against Mario while being juggled

 

[_Phloat_]

It may be hard to get him off, but chuting away at least resets it to neutral, if not hurting Mario a little.

Learn to PS F-smash on reaction. I don't know how much of a frame advantage this gives you, but I usually punish with d-tilt. (Usually.. always, I have only played one mario IIRC.)

He has some grab combo stuff, but learn to DI away. Up and away is the way to go.

Spacing is important, he will try and zone you with his bair. Fortunately, your bair is stronger when it comes to this, especially with its landing hitbox. Use it, get a feel for both bairs and when and how you can win.

Once again, I don't know too much about this matchup, most from friendlys with people who don't know the character or one tournament match.

Oh, I saw Boss play some, but I don't remember much as I was focusing on other things. Occasionally I would glance over and see him three stocking fools.

 

[slikvik]

-Hard to get Mario off once he's inside G&W's range; partially has to do with juggling, but some of it is just G&W's lack of a good GTFO off me move against Mario while being juggled

pretty sure we can just upB

 

[Matt07]

Pros
GW has better range
GW has better priority
GW can live up to 150% or more with bucket bracking =/
GW can easily edgeguard Mario with a f-air
GW KO's Mario with a dsmash at 90% >.<, GW has better ko moves
You shut down our Fireball approach, or limit or camping

Cons
FIHL will shut down b-air approach


This is a sad sad match-up for Mario.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Judge Judy pretty much got it however I would like to say....Mario's camping game gets destroyed considering Gdub's bucket kills Mario at or around 40%...

This is a sad sad match-up for Mario.

...This match-up is not nearly as bad once you learn it...

 

[slikvik]

Actually it is. It's really easy to shut down all of marios approaches...Boss wouldn't use mario against me in tourney

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Actually it is. It's really easy to shut down all of marios approaches...Boss wouldn't use mario against me in tourney

Boss isn't a spacing wizard....


just sayin'

 

[_Phloat_]

If boss doesn't have great spacing, what is it that sets him apart from all the other marios?

Does he travel more, or make better choices in game or something? It can't be his name..


Your name inspires me to be a better person. o_0

 

[Judge Judy]

If boss doesn't have great spacing, what is it that sets him apart from all the other marios?

Does he travel more, or make better choices in game or something? It can't be his name..


Your name inspires me to be a better person. o_0

He's fast, very fast.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Everything I've seen suggests that Mario is the single easiest character to beat with Mr. Game & Watch. The main factor is that you outspace him horribly. Mario can barely even hit Mr. Game & Watch as your moves have double the range. When you consider that Mr. Game & Watch is all about spacing you end up having experts at spacing with radically superior tools going up against a character who has almost no spacing potential.

Mario also has no practical kill moves, and he has no ability to gimp you at all. Mario's smashes are all prety weak, and his horrible range other than on fsmash makes them really predictable and easy to avoid. When it comes to his ability to kill you, Mario is like a slower Sonic who can't lead you off the top of the stage; it's really sad. On the other hand, Mario has a ridiculously bad recovery that's very easy for you to gimp with your forward aerial, and due to his poor range he consistently has to endanger himself which makes it easier for you to land your powerful smashes.

Mario really can't combo. It's a myth. Mario's combo game starts with the assumption that you are right on top of him which really doesn't happen, but either way, he just can't keep you in hitstun as you DI away before you have a chance to up special away and reset. It just doesn't work.

FLUDD doesn't help, seriously. The problem with FLUDD is that it doesn't even start spraying water until he could have gotten out something like a fsmash (I think it's even slower). That means FLUDD just can't be used on reaction to any sort of pressure, even predictable approaches. By the time FLUDD comes out, Mario will already be hit. The Mario boards are living a lie with this move; it just doesn't work against competent players.

Mario's up special is another thing Mario players like to live up that doesn't really work very well. For one, the range is horrible. If you space the turtle right (and you have a pretty generous window), you can easily pressure Mario's shield with no risk at all. For two, it's mega unsafe if it misses; you get an up smash on Mario every single time he misses his up special. The last problem is that, even when it hits, it doesn't matter. Unless you are literally right on top of him (which would make you dumb), it does 1-3%. That's as much damage as the typical jab1. So, basically, if you're both in a good situation and go for your moves, you win. When you win, you hit with a very powerful smash. When he wins, he hits with a jab1. In short, this move is a complete non-threat.

A complete non-threat really describes Mario in general. It's at least 70-30 Mr. Game & Watch wins if not 80-20. I honestly am more intimidated by Captain Falcon; 80-20 is probably better just because Mario definitely needs a worse score than Ness.

 

[pizzapie7]

Bucket takes away our fireball approach, and bair outprioritizes practically all of our moves and is very easilly spaced. The only thing Mario has going for him is FIHL on GW's bair.

 

[Judge Judy]

Everything I've seen suggests that Mario is the single easiest character to beat with Mr. Game & Watch. The main factor is that you outspace him horribly. Mario can barely even hit Mr. Game & Watch as your moves have double the range. When you consider that Mr. Game & Watch is all about spacing you end up having experts at spacing with radically superior tools going up against a character who has almost no spacing potential.

First of all, you're assuming your opponent has no knowledge of the match-up and they're going to just blindly charge you. In this match-up Mario plays defensively until he's inside G&W's range and G&W cannot practically approach Mario without sacrificing his spacing. Also, the cape and Mario's Bair both have decent reach and at least are comparable to G&W's general aerial range.

Mario also has no practical kill moves, and he has no ability to gimp you at all. Mario's smashes are all prety weak, and his horrible range other than on fsmash makes them really predictable and easy to avoid. When it comes to his ability to kill you, Mario is like a slower Sonic who can't lead you off the top of the stage; it's really sad. On the other hand, Mario has a ridiculously bad recovery that's very easy for you to gimp with your forward aerial, and due to his poor range he consistently has to endanger himself which makes it easier for you to land your powerful smashes.

G&W has the advantage in kill power and you can consistantly gimp Mario if he's hit at a bad angle, but G&W's smashes are extremely telegraphed and Mario does not have trouble protecting himself off-stage unless most of his vertical height is already gone.

Mario really can't combo. It's a myth. Mario's combo game starts with the assumption that you are right on top of him which really doesn't happen, but either way, he just can't keep you in hitstun as you DI away before you have a chance to up special away and reset. It just doesn't work.

Mario does have some true combos but mostly he has strings and juggles. Anyway, DIing is good, but it doesn't mean you automatically get your breathing space back.

FLUDD doesn't help, seriously. The problem with FLUDD is that it doesn't even start spraying water until he could have gotten out something like a fsmash (I think it's even slower). That means FLUDD just can't be used on reaction to any sort of pressure, even predictable approaches. By the time FLUDD comes out, Mario will already be hit. The Mario boards are living a lie with this move; it just doesn't work against competent players.

The idea is to use the FLUDD as soon as your opponent is within range and if your opponent attempts to go though it, they just end up sacrificing their spacing and getting punished.

Mario's up special is another thing Mario players like to live up that doesn't really work very well. For one, the range is horrible. If you space the turtle right (and you have a pretty generous window), you can easily pressure Mario's shield with no risk at all. For two, it's mega unsafe if it misses; you get an up smash on Mario every single time he misses his up special. The last problem is that, even when it hits, it doesn't matter. Unless you are literally right on top of him (which would make you dumb), it does 1-3%. That's as much damage as the typical jab1. So, basically, if you're both in a good situation and go for your moves, you win. When you win, you hit with a very powerful smash. When he wins, he hits with a jab1. In short, this move is a complete non-threat.

Mario's Up B is useful as an occasional punishing move, most of the time OOS, but no one has been overhyping it by any means. Basically it's an all or nothing move if you get an opportunity to use it; you only use it on stage if you know it'll connect.

A complete non-threat really describes Mario in general. It's at least 70-30 Mr. Game & Watch wins if not 80-20. I honestly am more intimidated by Captain Falcon; 80-20 is probably better just because Mario definitely needs a worse score than Ness.

Something tells me you've never played a competent Mario; 70:30, 80:20, lol, that's as hard to harder than DDD which G&W is not.

 

[HeroMystic]

*wall of lol*

lol.

That is all.

 

[omegablackmage]

boss's mario is scary -___-

last time we played (esticle which was in june maybe?)

i went 2-2 with his mario and beat his luigi 1-0 over two sets

who knows now though, but i agree, this is a really tough match up for mario

 

[Matt07]

Don't Mario's aerials out speed GW?

And considering b-air is one of GW's main approach and FLUDD screws that over...Free usmash, or up B take your pick. Up b has suprising range, and we get invincibility frames, however if we screw up, we get a Scuba Helm to the face. Try to use less up B at high %'s.


I don't see how GW smashes are telegraped Judge Judy . Down smash comes out EXTREMELY FAST, easily spammable with little risk. Up smash has the biggest hitbox I've ever seen O.o, slightly hard to punish, fsmash is easy to punish and I think the inner part of the match has less knockback.

Honestly a match-up I want to learn more, because of the lack of GW's I fight.

Honestly, I think Mario will be using a lot of FLUDD/b-air in this match-up.

 

[_Phloat_]

Shh, AA's stepfather was an abusive Mario. He has some pent up rage.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

I don't see how GW smashes are telegraped Judge Judy . Down smash comes out EXTREMELY FAST, easily spammable with little risk. Up smash has the biggest hitbox I've ever seen O.o, slightly hard to punish, fsmash is easy to punish and I think the inner part of the match has less knockback.
.

...I've jabbed GW players out of Dsmash and Fsmash

 

[Matt07]

Wtf O.o, I wish I knew that before.

 

[boss8]

GaW isnt broken....he could be a hard opponent but he isnt broken.....and to the guy that said mario cant combo...THAT MADE ME LOL SO HARD.....
amazing ampharos you make mario sound like he's horriable...please stop talking unless you really no what your talking about....

i give this matchup a 60:40 in GaW's favor....

but i dont really like to pay attention to matchups.....so for me...this matchup is

50:50

 

[DMG]

60:40-65:35 G&W

FLUDD is overrated, Dtilt is more useful than Bair, bucket is overrated, Mario is weak when G&W is under him in the air, Upb for G&W lets him escape dangerous setups from Mario, Fair is pretty useful for G&W, and stutter step Fsmash is overrated. Also SDI Mario's Upb.

 

[boss8]

o well its all opinions.....

 

[A2ZOMG]

Everything I've seen suggests that Mario is the single easiest character to beat with Mr. Game & Watch.

Luigi by far is easier. No approach and no out of shield options. His raw KO power is a joke when he can't approach for life to compensate for his range (which is worse than Mario's on all of his Smashes) and he actually has zero counters to the B-air in all situations. To make matters worse for him, his recovery is very easy for G&W to edgeguard. All the Luigis I've played, IRL included, say this matchup is a really hard counter.

This matchup comes down to Mario's out of shield options, Jabbing a lot when he's close to G&W, and the fact that G&W doesn't have many offensive out of shield options to punish.

Mario by far does better than Luigi against G&W. Unlike Luigi, he has variation in his approach and usable out of shield options (one of which can kill.) Stutter step F-smash can punish the ending lag on a lot of G&W's stuff if used right and has more than enough knockback to scare the lightweight G&W.

I'd say G&W's two easiest matchups are Luigi and Captain Falcon. Mario is one of the better low tiers at handling G&W, but he needs to be really smart in this matchup. G&W is at the same time one of Mario's hardest matchups due to raw advantages like range and KO power, but you would be surprised that Mario has tools to work around those things. Mario can Fireball camp whenever G&W uses an attack and if it hits G&W, it turns him around and sets him up for an (almost) free tilt or D-smash (the only thing Luigi can get from fireball camping in contrast is setups into Tornado, which doesn't threaten G&W at all). Landing smashes on Mario can be difficult if he knows how to Jab and space B-airs due to them outspeeding G&W by a ton.

Now a low tier that G&W should be handing better than people give him credit for is Yoshi. Powershield the eggs (can't do that? Get better. It's not hard to do unless you're on wifi lag), bait out his pivot grab until he has no more room to move. If he keeps camping Eggs, keep powershielding until you're in range to punish with an aerial. His recovery does suck enough to be edgeguarded as long as you know what he does offstage. If you're playing right against him he can't approach and he shouldn't be landing KO moves anytime soon on you anyway due to all of his setups being terrible.

All in all, I don't think Amazing Ampharos has ever played a good Mario. I have, and this matchup is NOT easy if the Mario knows what he's doing. Mario is not the easiest character to keep outside of your range, and he has better options than some characters do when he makes it there. I'd set it no higher than 65/35.

By the way, I've also gotten more opinions about the Sonic matchup, and I now feel it's at least 7/3 G&W as opposed to 65/35.

 

[cutter]

I see this being 65:35 GW. Mario has tools at his disposal to keep up with GW's raw power and the tricks GW has. Some legit combos (GW can break out of them with up B at low-to moderate % after that though) won't be too good for GW considering his glass cannon nature. However, what else does Mario really have on GW that he cannot stop?

You call us out on disregarding Mario; yet you still need to understand what GW can do as well. He has massive disjointed hitboxes; Mario's worst nightmare (see: Marth). He has brute force smashes with IASA frames that will obliterate Mario at low enough percents despite him being a middleweight. GW's aerial game without question outclasses Mario's.

How is Mario supposed to answer GW's Up B? If Mario does catch GW by Down Bing his Bair, GW will Up B out of danger before he gets nailed by a Usmash or Up B. GW's Up B has invincibility frames as well, and it also has a vortex hitbox for blowing you away or sucking you into the attack.

If Mario ever gets inside of GW's zoning, GW can simply Up B OoS and reset the situation.

GW doesn't even need to bucket fireballs. He can just block them with Dtilt, get out of a sticky situation with an Up B, or steamroll through them with moves like Bair.

GW does what he does very well... and that is thrash low tier characters.