Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

[_Phloat_]

I like to f-tilt fireballs, it refreshes GaW's useful moves.

What can Mario do to a GaW that spaces turtles on shield so that the landing hitbox just barely nicks Mario?

Because that is how I fight against some characters. Just that and fairs when the mess up. Easy, 2 move victory that some characters aren't built to handle.

I beat a Lucas in pools at Gaming Galaxy, I don't know if this was player fault or otherwise, but it was eeeeaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyys, and I just don't know what he could have done to win.

What can Mario do to a turtle on shield? What can Mario do if I get a 20% lead and grab the edge or sit around waiting for you to approach?

 

[cHooKay]

you can tap di GW's turtle upward and land a uair. I perfected this technique and GW 'turtle' arial doesn't seem as scary anymore...

i actually look forward for this arial, if it comes I can land a uair and juggle the crap out of GW with utilts, uairs, and bairs..

not saying that he's particularly an easy oppponent, just not overwhelming. GW still has an advantage over mario, but pro mains shouldn't be too worried, especially those who can FLUDD properly..

 

[Judge Judy]

I see this being 65:35 GW. Mario has tools at his disposal to keep up with GW's raw power and the tricks GW has. Some legit combos (GW can break out of them with up B at low-to moderate % after that though) won't be too good for GW considering his glass cannon nature. However, what else does Mario really have on GW that he cannot stop?

The match-up is either 60:40 or 65:35 in G&W's favor, personally I think it's 60:40, but put whatever you think is accurate.

You call us out on disregarding Mario; yet you still need to understand what GW can do as well. He has massive disjointed hitboxes; Mario's worst nightmare (see: Marth). He has brute force smashes with IASA frames that will obliterate Mario at low enough percents despite him being a middleweight. GW's aerial game without question outclasses Mario's.

You need more than just range, you need the speed to abuse it; G&W can abuse his range with good spacing, but he can't use it consistently as an offensive move against Mario. Marth is a bad match-up for Mario because he has good range and the speed to abuse it offensively.

How is Mario supposed to answer GW's Up B? If Mario does catch GW by Down Bing his Bair, GW will Up B out of danger before he gets nailed by a Usmash or Up B. GW's Up B has invincibility frames as well, and it also has a vortex hitbox for blowing you away or sucking you into the attack.

You can try to reset your positioning but realize that means you need to re-space yourself as well.

If Mario ever gets inside of GW's zoning, GW can simply Up B OoS and reset the situation.

G&W's Up B can give him some breathing room but it puts you right above Mario, one of the worst places to be.

GW doesn't even need to bucket fireballs. He can just block them with Dtilt, get out of a sticky situation with an Up B, or steamroll through them with moves like Bair.

Mario is going to be using fireballs sparingly the entire match anyway.

GW does what he does very well... and that is thrash low tier characters.

This isn't about tier positions, this is about match-ups.

I like to f-tilt fireballs, it refreshes GaW's useful moves.

Ftilt is G&W's slowest and most punishable tilt; I doubt that's a very smart move.

What can Mario do to a GaW that spaces turtles on shield so that the landing hitbox just barely nicks Mario?

FLUDD

What can Mario do to a turtle on shield? What can Mario do if I get a 20% lead and grab the edge or sit around waiting for you to approach?

Mario could easily use the same tactic against G&W effectively so it's a null and void point, and planking isn't all that effective against Mario anyway.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You call us out on disregarding Mario; yet you still need to understand what GW can do as well. He has massive disjointed hitboxes; Mario's worst nightmare (see: Marth). He has brute force smashes with IASA frames that will obliterate Mario at low enough percents despite him being a middleweight. GW's aerial game without question outclasses Mario's.

Marth is not bad at all for Mario. The matchup is no worse than 6/4 Marth, contrary to what the Marth boards say. Marth's attacks can be punished out of shield, and Mario can force the approach with fireballs to an extent. Mario also has tools that mess up Marth's recovery a lot. If Marth whiffs ANY kill move on Mario, he gets stutter step F-smashed.

Believe me, I used to be the first person to think G&W was Mario's worst matchup. And yes, G&W's superior Smashes are a huge chore for Mario to work around. The really good Mario players however can time the F-smash perfectly to outspace you on most of your ground attacks.

How is Mario supposed to answer GW's Up B? If Mario does catch GW by Down Bing his Bair, GW will Up B out of danger before he gets nailed by a Usmash or Up B. GW's Up B has invincibility frames as well, and it also has a vortex hitbox for blowing you away or sucking you into the attack.

Nobody really has any good answer to G&W's Up-B. =/

As you're coming down though, if the Mario is good at chasing you down, he can get under you, and if you try to attack his shield, he can then Up-B OOS and punish you reliably. If you're at a kill percent, replace Up-B with Up-smash.

If Mario ever gets inside of GW's zoning, GW can simply Up B OoS and reset the situation.

Mario's Jab = 2 frames
Mario's Up-B = 3 frames
G&W's Up-B = 10 frames

It's not THAT simple. =/

GW doesn't even need to bucket fireballs. He can just block them with Dtilt, get out of a sticky situation with an Up B, or steamroll through them with moves like Bair.

Unlike Luigi, Mario's fireballs can be angled by gravity. Meaning you can't just sit in one location idly fanning away his projectiles.

Against most good Mario players, I don't Bucket at all in this matchup. The good ones always wait for me to have an attack out and then try to hit me with a fireball. Yeah, it's not the most threatening thing ever, but if you mess up at the wrong time, Mario has more speed and can hit you before you can hit him back.

GW does what he does very well... and that is thrash low tier characters.

I can agree with 65/35 G&W. But it's not an extremely hard counter like some.

Also, good Ganondorfs are really devastating. They can answer your range, they can combo you a lot, and KO you at ridiculously low percents. If there is one low tier that gives G&W a lot of trouble, I'm convinced it is Ganondorf.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I think you Mario players radically underrate Mr. Game & Watch's spacing options and aren't considering things like the fact that Mr. Game & Watch won't approach when up or that he can approach without ruining his spacing, but it's really not worth arguing with you. I suppose I should be more sympathetic since I used to think about Ness in melee the same way you all seem to think about Mario; I guess a part of me wants to save you guys from discovering the hard way the real limits of your character. It's not fun believing for 6 years that your character is good only to discover when you are really forced into tough situations that you need a new character.

Seriously though, in almost every attribute Mario is pretty clearly very limited, and my low opinion of him seems to be backed up by his dismal tournament results. I did exaggerate a bit mostly because the Mario players consistently troll the mains of characters like Ness for no apparent reason and maybe in their frustrations might understand how they are making these people feel (if Mario is better than Ness, it certainly isn't obvious), but I don't think anything I said was very far from the truth. Mario really is just totally outspaced, Mario really has very limited and subpar options for kill moves, and in general Mario does have few options to get out of trouble with similarly few for causing it. FLUDD is also seriously not good, but rather than arguing this further I'll just wait for frame data to vindicate what I'm saying about it just being way too slow. I suppose Mario does have a few things, but they are really very limited compared to the sort of threats Mr. Game & Watch is able to mount against him. I was actually serious that I don't think we should give this a less extreme number than we gave Ness; Ness just all around has so much more of an ability to make himself a positive threat than Mario. This isn't just a "I love Ness" thing either; I'd say the same thing about Zelda who we also have at 70-30. There's even Pit, Pikachu, and R.O.B. at 65-35 (along with a bunch of other characters), and Mario is definitely in a worse class than them. When I look at the numbers we gave other characters so far, I find it hard to assign Mario a score that isn't just completely horrible. We might just want to moderate our numbers in general...

I think you are underrating Luigi A2; Luigi seems pretty obviously more dangerous than Mario. I agree that Luigi is one of Mr. Game & Watch's easier matchups, but the fact that Luigi is so much faster and stronger than Mario means that, even if he too is totally outspaced, he at least has massive positives whenever he gets a chance to punish a mistake. This isn't about Luigi so that's all I will say about this.

Seriously, I don't mean any hard feelings, but Mario has some pretty huge weaknesses that Mr. Game & Watch is practically built to exploit. I think it's something we need to be honest about even if a lot of people here are emotionally very passionate about Mario.

 

[Judge Judy]

I think you Mario players radically underrate Mr. Game & Watch's spacing options and aren't considering things like the fact that Mr. Game & Watch won't approach when up or that he can approach without ruining his spacing, but it's really not worth arguing with you. I suppose I should be more sympathetic since I used to think about Ness in melee the same way you all seem to think about Mario; I guess a part of me wants to save you guys from discovering the hard way the real limits of your character. It's not fun believing for 6 years that your character is good only to discover when you are really forced into tough situations that you need a new character.

G&W can usually approach without hurting his spacing, but that's why the FLUDD is such a useful tool in this match-up.

Seriously though, in almost every attribute Mario is pretty clearly very limited, and my low opinion of him seems to be backed up by his dismal tournament results. I did exaggerate a bit mostly because the Mario players consistently troll the mains of characters like Ness for no apparent reason and maybe in their frustrations might understand how they are making these people feel (if Mario is better than Ness, it certainly isn't obvious), but I don't think anything I said was very far from the truth. Mario really is just totally outspaced, Mario really has very limited and subpar options for kill moves, and in general Mario does have few options to get out of trouble with similarly few for causing it. FLUDD is also seriously not good, but rather than arguing this further I'll just wait for frame data to vindicate what I'm saying about it just being way too slow. I suppose Mario does have a few things, but they are really very limited compared to the sort of threats Mr. Game & Watch is able to mount against him. I was actually serious that I don't think we should give this a less extreme number than we gave Ness; Ness just all around has so much more of an ability to make himself a positive threat than Mario. This isn't just a "I love Ness" thing either; I'd say the same thing about Zelda who we also have at 70-30. There's even Pit, Pikachu, and R.O.B. at 65-35 (along with a bunch of other characters), and Mario is definitely in a worse class than them. When I look at the numbers we gave other characters so far, I find it hard to assign Mario a score that isn't just completely horrible. We might just want to moderate our numbers in general...

This was never about feelings, this is about getting facts straight and discussing a match-up.

 

[_Phloat_]

can't we just space to compensate for Fludd?

Just come from above, bair with the body of the turtle on Mario, if he Fludds he gets tipped, and if he doesn't you just just slide to good spacing once you hit...

 

[A2ZOMG]

I think you are underrating Luigi A2; Luigi seems pretty obviously more dangerous than Mario. I agree that Luigi is one of Mr. Game & Watch's easier matchups, but the fact that Luigi is so much faster and stronger than Mario means that, even if he too is totally outspaced, he at least has massive positives whenever he gets a chance to punish a mistake. This isn't about Luigi so that's all I will say about this.

Nah. I've actually played this matchup a lot.

Luigi isn't faster than Mario. He's a lot slower moving, and his attack speed is about the same, with variations on just a few attacks. Mario is faster on some attacks, while Luigi is faster on others.

Also, Luigi by far is worse at approaching, and unlike Mario he can't punish G&W at all for not spacing perfectly. I've talked to a few Luigi mains about this matchup, and the consensus is the same over and over again. Luigi doesn't have any counters to G&W's B-air. The key thing that makes Mario so much better than Luigi in this matchup is that he has a few situational but effective counters to the B-air. Luigi shouldn't be getting inside G&W's range at all, whereas Mario should only seldom get inside G&W's range. Luigi doesn't have the out of shield options to be able to set up any kill moves on G&W, while Mario does have a few viable out of shield options, one of which can kill.

Vs Luigi, Luigi should be getting like 3-4 hits from Tornado and random fireballs, while Mario has more attacks to choose from like F-smash, Up-B, and U-smash.

Moreover, I once beat teh_spammerer's Luigi with G&W, and he's like 10000x better than me wtf.

Seriously, I don't mean any hard feelings, but Mario has some pretty huge weaknesses that Mr. Game & Watch is practically built to exploit. I think it's something we need to be honest about even if a lot of people here are emotionally very passionate about Mario.

You know seriously, I was the first person ever to suggest this was Mario's worst matchup, that is until I actually got beaten by some good Mario mains.

 

[Judge Judy]

can't we just space to compensate for Fludd?

Just come from above, bair with the body of the turtle on Mario, if he Fludds he gets tipped, and if he doesn't you just just slide to good spacing once you hit...

That means you're close enough to be punished by other moves.

 

[cutter]

Mario's Jab = 2 frames
Mario's Up-B = 3 frames
G&W's Up-B = 10 frames

It's not THAT simple. =/

Shield = 1 frame

 

[_Phloat_]

Shield = 1 frame

2 Frames IIRC.

And you can't shield in the air.

10 frames is more than enough to escape from most "combos", especially when combined with DI.

 

[BoTastic!]

Since when does Luigi do better against G&W than Mario? Luigi lacks the offensive and defensive tools that Mario possesses. I believe Mario can get in and out a lot easier than Luigi can.

 

[slikvik]

luigi can actually kill G&W lol

 

[A2ZOMG]

luigi can actually kill G&W lol

As far as I'm concerned, he can't. He can literally only land 2 moves vs G&W if you b-air camp. Tornado and Fireball, neither of which are completely safe, unfortunately for him. Neither kills G&W, so thus he can't kill G&W. Okay like maybe he'll get a dumb KO on you if you space horribly on his Green Missile while he's recovering, but you can just beat that out with F-airs. =/

He has some silly mindgame combos into some of his stuff, all of which if you know how to react to, none of it will KO you ever (assuming he can even get in your range in the first place....which he really can't). Even his Jab -> Up-B, if you can DI that down, you can shield before his Up-B comes out. His only true combo into any of his KO moves is D-tilt -> whatever, which is pretty hard for Luigi to get off.

Mario is able to land a few more moves than G&W, one of them being Up-smash out of shield, so he's able to KO G&W more consistently.

Mario's F-smash is also much better vs G&W than Luigi's other KO moves, which all have really bad range. Mario's F-smash at least has enough range to punish some of G&W's stuff.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Shield = 1 frame

Shielding against Mario isn't a good idea unless you're powershielding fireballs. You lack any really good ways of punishing out of shield, and Mario is fast enough to stay safe from G&W's out of shield options. If he gets a grab, you'll have a headache at low percents as if he reads you right, he gets a combo. At high percents, his B-throw kills at like 120%.

 

[boss8]

luigi has more ko options then mario...they can still both KO GaW fairly easy IMO......but GaW has kill options as well if you dont mind game you will just be doing turtle and fairs all day!!

 

[hippiedude92]

lol @ the comparison with mario and luigi in this matchup.

in all techanicallity, A2 is right. I've had some hard time even beating some average GaWs. All it takes is Bair/dtilt camping and your pretty krystal from there. But since the ones i fight love to bucket my fireballs which is ******** that's how i win lol >.>;

And agreed with Boss. Mario's fsmash just needs to be fresh.

Can't the turtle DI'd out of? into like a upb or nair or up air or so I hear? And what direction you gotta DI out of?

 

[slikvik]

luigi has more ko options then mario...they can still both KO GaW fairly easy IMO......but GaW has kill options as well if you dont mind game you will just be doing turtle and fairs all day!!

what he said, except for the part about mario killing

 

[A2ZOMG]

Can't the turtle DI'd out of? into like a upb or nair or up air or so I hear? And what direction you gotta DI out of?

Up and towards it. If you did it really well against one that wasn't optimally spaced you might get a U-air or N-air from it.

Yeah, Luigi has more KO options than Mario, the thing he lacks however is any good out of shield tactics because he slides away a lot when you hit his shield and because none of his out of shield options can actually compete with the B-air. All of his KO moves lose out in range to G&W's B-air by a pretty big margin. Mario has one KO move that can compete with G&W in terms of range.

Basically, here is the matchup vs Luigi:

I spam B-air. He gets in a random fireball, and a tornado (or in other cases, I just hit him out of his Tornado), I keep spamming B-air until he goes offstage, then I edgeguard him with D-airs and F-airs, and if he tries to do anything fancy in the air, I Up-B him away or outspace him with *insert any aerial*. Because Luigi is really floaty, he also has a harder time dealing with G&W's U-air juggling.

Matchup vs Mario.

Similar to vs Luigi, except Mario actually gets in hits from an Up-B and Up-smash out of shield and punishes some dumb stuff with the huge range on his F-smash. Mario actually weaves past the B-air better with better overall mobility and he is more often able to get in range with other attacks like his D-smash (which has better range than Luigi's).

 

[Samuelson]

You guys should be embarrassed to label Lucario vs GaW as 35:65. It's honestly more like 45:55 GaW's favor. But go ahead...keep being ignorant.

 

[bobson]

I think you are underrating Luigi A2; Luigi seems pretty obviously more dangerous than Mario. I agree that Luigi is one of Mr. Game & Watch's easier matchups, but the fact that Luigi is so much faster and stronger than Mario means that, even if he too is totally outspaced, he at least has massive positives whenever he gets a chance to punish a mistake. This isn't about Luigi so that's all I will say about this.

I second Luigi and I prefer Mario for this matchup. Luigi has more early kill options, but it's the Metaknight Problem again in that he has a hell of a time getting inside G&W's range to use them. The range on Mario's fsmash and his better OoS options are far more useful than the power of Luigi's kill moves here.

And, for the record, Mario is a little faster than Luigi overall.

 

[DMG]

You guys should be embarrassed to label Lucario vs GaW as 35:65. It's honestly more like 45:55 GaW's favor. But go ahead...keep being ignorant.

I find it 60:40, but only if you kill him before he gets at a dangerous %. Otherwise, Campy Lucario ruins any fun G&W could have lol.

 

[Samuelson]

I find it 60:40, but only if you kill him before he gets at a dangerous %. Otherwise, Campy Lucario ruins any fun G&W could have lol.

Yeah but good Lucario's aren't going to get by any of GaW's telegraphed smashes so GaW will have to resort to killing with sweet spotted fair or getting a lucky gimp. It is possible for a dumb lucario main to get tricked and get hit by GaW's dumb smashes lol. I have enough experience where that kind of stuff just doesn't work on me at all. GaW's Dthrow pretty much doesn't work in this matchup either, it's really hard for GaW to do anything out of it. Lucario can just SDI out of Turtle and Dair him out of the turtle lag. There's sooo much stuff that Lucario can do to GaW and very little that GaW can do to Lucario. The only thing that GaW has over Lucario is the air game, which is important, and the bucket, which only makes it so Lucario can't sit back and throw aura spheres all day.

 

[Ruuku]

Samuelson makes G&W sound like a completely useless character against Lucario then labels the matchup in G&W's favor.

 

[Samuelson]

lol?

I said you beat us in the air...that is a pretty big deal considering that Lucario usually spends most of his time in the air. GaW is also one of those characters that can punish dumb lucario's that tend to "spam roll" with his Dsmash.

Personally, I know lots of people that think that the matchup is even or in Lucario's favor. But i'm not gonna go that far because i know people will flame me and call me dumb or something :D I think it's 45:55 or 50:50 but what do I know. I only go to about 2 tourney's a weekend and play the 2 best GaW's in SoCal on a regular basis.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Vs Lucario, yeah Lucario doesn't have much on G&W in the air. Aura Sphere is risky for him in this matchup, and his F-smash, while a good counter for G&W's predictable approaches, can be powershielded easily. So yeah, it's definitely in G&W's favor. But getting the KO requires a lot of patience cause all of his good moves can work around your Smashes.

You can't SDI rising B-airs btw.

Not easy for G&W lol, and I'll admit that cause Kurohito beat my G&W lol.

 

[PKNintendo]

Samuelson makes G&W sound like a completely useless character against Lucario then labels the matchup in G&W's favor.

Like this topic hasn't done so to half the characters in the game. Oh and don't say because I main Ness. If G&W actually had that many 3-7 he would be higher on the tier list.

PS: Anyone think DMG's G&W matchup posts seem surprisingly accurate? You don't he think he...

 

[Ruuku]

lol?

I said you beat us in the air...that is a pretty big deal considering that Lucario usually spends most of his time in the air. GaW is also one of those characters that can punish dumb lucario's that tend to "spam roll" with his Dsmash.

If you look at your post, you're pretty much saying that a good Lucario player will SDI out G&W's b.airs. You're also saying that smashes won't land. "There's sooo much stuff that Lucario can do to GaW and very little that GaW can do to Lucario".

Like this topic hasn't done so to half the characters in the game. Oh and don't say because I main Ness. If G&W actually had that many 3-7 he would be higher on the tier list.

PS: Anyone think DMG's G&W matchup posts seem surprisingly accurate? You don't he think he...

What the topic has done to half the characters in the game only matters to the people that so determined to created a tier list. And you seem to be one of them. I'm just taking this thread as a way to help other people understand certain matchups. This thread has also giving me one or two pointers for tough matches.

From experience, I know that G&W's u.air and upB can mess with Lucario's approach. Other than that, I think that that Lucario's aerials are just about as good as G&W's. G&W may be able to take out Lucario fairly easily off stage but I find that getting a KO on a "camping" Lucario on stage is tough. I see this matchup as being even or slightly in G&W's advantage pretty much only because of b.air.

 

[omegablackmage]

Mario: (65/35)

General Matchup:

• Mario is one of the better combo characters in the game, given that he has surprisingly fast aerials that chain well together. He also has a few quirks as well, such as the cape, fludd, and good oos options.
• Mario has priority in a few areas, probably his best is in his up b given the invincibility frames, but his fsmash also has great range and priority as well. Also consider how moves like the fludd and cape work. Bair is probably the only other gw move that has any sizeable range.
• Mario does lack a bit in the killing department, and usually has to rack up quite a bit of damage. Fsmash is his notable kill move, which overshadows most of his other options. Dsmash, upsmash, and bthrow are good too, but usually require a lot more damage on gw to work.
• Mario's edgeguarding attempts in this matchup will be pretty useless, so aside from fludd's or a random fireball he think you won't be able to bucket, the offstage dept is bad for him. Overall he'll just have to hog and hit you with a nair or dair likely.
• Mario has the cape and fireballs to distract you while he recovers, so watch out for these when you go out after him. Make good use of weak fairs, keys, bacon, etc to push him farter out.
• Mario's combos are really where he shines. Up airs, uptilts, nairs, dairs, fairs, bairs all combo really well and hurt when in strings. Use up b to escape these to safety.
• Mario's roll is a bit above average and the dthrow to dsmash doesn't work, so upthrows are better. Nairing and upair spamming are pretty average on mario. Overall don't expect any added combo potential on mario.

General Strategies:

• Mario players will likely not spam fireballs against you to avoid filling the bucket. That doesn't mean they won't use them at all though, they can either bait bucket shots to punish you, or they can throw them in when they know you won't be able to bucket them. Overall though, the use of the fireballs will be cut back.
• If mario catches you in a combo, make good use of your up b to escape, and avoid being predictable on your way down. If you don't get out of combos from mario they can hurt for sure.
• If you space any aerial too close to mario's shield, they can use their up b to hit you out as an oos option. This even works against the turtle when your spacing is too close to mario. If you find yourself key spamming the back of his shield, then you will find yourself eating a lot of up b's for it.
• Mario is capable of inducing hitlag on your turtle by spraying water on it from the fludd. This is known as fihl and can put you in a bad situation, due to the added lag. Keep an eye on mario if he's charged at all as an innocent bair could go wrong.
• Overall, keep your spacing tight, and be aggressive off the stage to force early deaths on mario. He doesn't have any excessive keep away range, so he will be running away a lot to try and force mistakes on you. If you can keep a decent amount of pressure on him, you will do fine in the matchup.

Stages:

• Many stages could go wrong for mario, mainly because he doesn't have an amazingly long recovery. RC, FO, etc would work. Also keep in mind that he doesn't have a very good vertical ko, so halberd/delphino would also work in your favor.
• Close sides are probably the biggest thing to avoid. Jungle japes/green greens maybe are stages to avoid. Most neutrals should be fine for this matchup.

 

[Cyan_]

Pokemon Trailer is pretty easy for me. For Charizard, just do what do with all heavy chars, nair juggle him. Ivysaur I don't know too much about, just that his recovery is terrible, worse than Olimar. Just hang onto the edge and without his double jump, he's done. As for Squirtle, I bair a lot and do the good ol' dthrow -> dsmash/fsmash or techchase usmash.

 

[LouBega]

bad recoveries! i've never really played this matchup except in one tournament and it wasn't very hard (but we were on port town, so pokemons was pretty much screwed). squirtle does really well in the air but g&w pretty much shuts that down. i assume squirtle can be annoying with water gun like mario can be. so watch out for that. watch out for rocksmash. it hurts! if it hits, that's like half your stock right there. charizard is easy to juggle, so nair him like craazy. i assume you can do the same to ivysaur. ivysaur has some range on his bair and i'm pretty sure you can't bucket his side-b, so don't try. ivysaur's upsmash is stronger than ours. you shouldn't be getting hit by this! i don't know if it goes through key or not so hopefully someone with more experience in this matchup comes in here. you can gimp these guys pretty easily though, so ummm... do that!

 

[_Phloat_]

I'd rather rediscuss lucario than talk about PT, but thats just me...


Also, Lucario is wicked annoying to fight against. His strings are really good, and GaW can't take the damage like that at all.

I played Milln, it was really fun. Really cool guy.

What does Lucario do if he hit him with a bair early on and camp him? AS is dangerous, when I camp luccy I normally stay either far enough away that he cannot punish AS, or close enough that if he starts an AS I smack him around...

Also, no up-b OOS and no good grab range makes nair-dair on shield dangerous, especially if you cross it up. Unfortunately, whenever I tried this Milln would fair me right as I jumped, but that is a spacing error on my part.

Also, PKnintendo, what do you mean higher on the tier list? Pass DDD with his raaape matchups, and overall good ones, heavyness, and snake-countering? Or Falco? MK and Snake are out of the question to pass by anyone anytime soon.

So, GaW is broken. Just not broken enough. The fact that we have a move that some characters cannot deal with at all also helps a great deal.

IDK about this matchup.

 

[omegablackmage]

we'll rediscuss all the characters once the cycle is finished.

 

[_clinton]

Again I play these guys for fun as well...let me talk about Ivysaur 1st...and I'll come back latter for the other 2 if I feel like it...

1st off Ivysaur is the most anti-air defense style sort of character as far as the 3 pokemon go...he has several moves off the top of my head that sort of can limit your air game (going on as I write)

You beat him at gimping (big shock there huh?) just be faster then he is with his uspecial and laugh at him...

Bair, Nair, Uair...all of those are pretty nice moves as far as annoying moves go...Fair is a kill move...Ftilt has annoying stats to it as well...along with Utilt

Razor Left sort of forces you to come to him...Uspecial on the ground sort of adds more to his anti-air style and has a killing point to it even (be careful with your Uspecial is what I'm saying)

Proper use of SDI can get out of his bullet seed taking less then 18% even if you are bad at DI like I am ^_^

He has an Usmash sort of like your Usmash (in fact you have a lot in common as far as Smash moves go IMO) but overall your Smashes out do his...for one thing your Fsmash will make him die like a Lightweight instead of the high midweight that he is...

Actually I feel Ivysaur and G&W have some common ground with each other as far as their strengths and weakpoints go (I bet you'd love to hear my thoughts for this? Well later ok).

 

[Matt07]

Excellent summary on the Mario match-up, omegablackmage. I agree with everything.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Wow, just in time for the release of my new thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=218894

G&W has one really good fire typed killing move; Fsmash. That means Ivy dies sooner than he should, and Squirtle lives a tad longer. Just a small thing for me to add. I may go more in depth on the matchup, as I do actually use PT.

 

[Steeler]

all three have issues.

squirtle is outranged and can die at early percents (is pretty annoying to catch though), but his attacks overall are quicker and can be used to punish gw.

ivysaur can die at early percents due to its recovery, but has a projectile that cannot be absorbed and has equivalent range to gw

charizard is big but has very powerful attacks, both damage and kill wise. he also has an insane grab that will punish you if your spacing isn't precise. rock smash will often trade hits with you.

gw doesn't **** here but it's a fairly good matchup for him, i think.

here's a video to show that pt doesn't just roll over and die

typh v leepuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyVQfheTCYk

 

[A2ZOMG]

65/35 G&W. The PT has a few rangey answers to some of G&W's stuff, but simply can't keep up in terms of raw power and offstage game, especially when he is limited by the fatigue factor.

 

[DMG]

PS: Anyone think DMG's G&W matchup posts seem surprisingly accurate? You don't he think he...

I play as G&W, I usually only use him in tourney to avoid stage CP's that would occur against my other characters.

I'm pretty good with him, I might use him more at the next tourney I go to and get some vids up.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Well

Squirtle gets ***** in this matchup.Being Light and GW's killing power does not mix.GW aerials will outrange Squirtles.Gw Favors 70:30

Ivysaur does alot better.He has range (Fsmash) to combat him.also Upsmash can murder an expected Dair,so be careful.Ivy can also try to Razor leaf camp you and will use his Grabs.Although Ivysaur needs to watch out for GW other aerials and Especially his Side Smash which destroys Ivy.(Darn Fire properties)
55:45 Gw favor

Charizard will probaly be your main choice.Rock smash can destroy Gw,Flamethrower and Rock smash can be an answer to GW aerial apporaches .Upsmash can be used on Dair.Charizards grab range can be trouble for GW.Although you can Juggle him and put the hurt on.Watchout for Dtilt.
6:4 Charizards favor.

A smart one will know to try and change squirtle so 55:45 Gw's favor.