lane = land*
takes 2 seconds to think about. come on.
takes 2 seconds to think about. come on.
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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
Bones0
Smash Legend
It was weird to read because of all the line skipping in the middle of the sentence. I also subconsciously wanted to discover some super cool technique with a badass name like lane boosting. 
voorhese
Smash Master
Yeah just a typo >_< oddly enough, i was doing it really consistently when i stumbled upon it, but now it is a lot harder for some reason...
R2_GP
Smash Journeyman
Is there any way to shine-grab (on target) falco? it's relatively easy against fox, but when i try this against falco the shine's knockdown seems diferent and the shine-grab doesn't work
leffen
Smash Champion
I'm intrigued by dash grab out of waveshine. Could someone test this more in the lab? What frames can you grab someone that missed his tech? (trying to see if you could cover both normal and notech with dash grab)
Is it possible to use against normal no techs? I couldn't get it to work.
Tournament tomorrow. I'm hyped. I'm gonna go in soooo hard
Is it possible to use against normal no techs? I couldn't get it to work.
Tournament tomorrow. I'm hyped. I'm gonna go in soooo hard
Jockmaster
Smash Ace
Do it leffen beat Armada you madman
♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡
Anti-Illuminati
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2007
- Messages
- 1,863
Beat his ***, Im rooting for you
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
But OG colour Fox is always the best, FYI.
I've been trying that grabbing Falco/Fox after a shine, but I can't seem to grab characters that are bouncing off the ground, not even after U-throw on idle player. I tried JC grab, standing, dash grab, etc. but it doesn't work. Is this an NTSC only thing?
Winston
Smash Master
Is there a reason dash grab would be easier to hit with for this than usmash?
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,564
The first 7ish frames of dash grab before the grabboxes come out are spent moving forward with an animation designed to transition smoothly from a run, while running upsmash only has leftover momentum from the run, which is decidedly less.
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Dash grab also takes, what, 5 more frames to become active?
I actually have an easier time hitting waveshine usmash lol (aka the Eggm)
I actually have an easier time hitting waveshine usmash lol (aka the Eggm)
Bones0
Smash Legend
I prefer pivot into doublewaveshine utilt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnALwFg9ZjU&feature=relmfu
I was wondering if anyone would mind looking over this video from awhile ago, its the only one I have up.
Carroll gave me some really good advice after the match, but I forget most of it.
There's obviously some real bad stuff here, this is the only time I've played people outside of my group of friends, but I'm hoping to go to another tournament soon and I would some concrete stuff to focus on improving beforehand. (although there aren't a lot of people who take it seriously to practice with here).
Thanks in advance.
I was wondering if anyone would mind looking over this video from awhile ago, its the only one I have up.
Carroll gave me some really good advice after the match, but I forget most of it.
There's obviously some real bad stuff here, this is the only time I've played people outside of my group of friends, but I'm hoping to go to another tournament soon and I would some concrete stuff to focus on improving beforehand. (although there aren't a lot of people who take it seriously to practice with here).
Thanks in advance.
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
i prefer both
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
yeah lovage said it best when he said there's no such thing as being good at melee without being technical anymore
it's all one and the same
it's all one and the same
Lanceinthepants
Smash Lord
Whoops nevermind.
Gl to people at the big house.
Gl to people at the big house.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
$wag
Your move placement & timing sucks. This is a good example of what I mean by that. You do the nair (which can work) but then you don't fade forward with it a bit to nudge him and wind up dropping the edgeguard. Then you're lagging in front of a Fox with actions and everything goes to hell from there. This kind of thing happens a lot. You just need to get used to how to aim your moves better.
You do commit heavily when you're really far away from him and when it's not necessary to do so. This is a good example of what I'm talking about. Carroll doesn't really punish you for it very well at all but you wind up trading on a lot of these kinds of exchanges and you're doing them from so far that if Carroll did just about anything but the same kind of play as you, you would likely have lost that exchange. You need to understand that Fox's 'reach' on the stage is tied to his movement. Where Fox is at the moment isn't necessarily where he's going to be by the time you reach him with your attack. What would have happened if Carroll dashed away at that point instead of trying to nair with you? Or simply held his ground?
When you're trying to pull Carroll into your defensive spacing traps you seem to have this urge to get back into the fray. This is more evident in your match on FD where you're actually doing a decent job of spacing out his approaches & keeping a solid defensive position with WD back (and some defensive lasers that were sloppy but he didn't punish them so w/e) but then you sacrifice it completely by shooting a laser moving forward. This is a horrible play for a lot of reasons. Patterns like this are consistent throughout the second game.
Some smaller things:
You seem to struggle when he's aiming at your head with FJ or such. In general u-tilt, bair (aim your bair to hit them with the raised foot), u-smash (as it's swinging up ideally but not necessary), dash dance (if you can get away from it in time), and shield (into shine) are good against things aimed at your head.
Manage your ledge invincibility better during edgeguards. It's easier to overlap people's bodies and shine them when you're invulnerable than it is to space the shine on their moving firefox hitbox. This also applies to aerials and other ledge strategies.
U-smash is not a good poke. Do not haphazardly throw it out vs opponents that haven't committed or given you any cue to do it. That's one of the easiest ways to get ***** with this character. Third only to "Missing in front of them" or "missing l-cancels on shields".
Your move placement & timing sucks. This is a good example of what I mean by that. You do the nair (which can work) but then you don't fade forward with it a bit to nudge him and wind up dropping the edgeguard. Then you're lagging in front of a Fox with actions and everything goes to hell from there. This kind of thing happens a lot. You just need to get used to how to aim your moves better.
You do commit heavily when you're really far away from him and when it's not necessary to do so. This is a good example of what I'm talking about. Carroll doesn't really punish you for it very well at all but you wind up trading on a lot of these kinds of exchanges and you're doing them from so far that if Carroll did just about anything but the same kind of play as you, you would likely have lost that exchange. You need to understand that Fox's 'reach' on the stage is tied to his movement. Where Fox is at the moment isn't necessarily where he's going to be by the time you reach him with your attack. What would have happened if Carroll dashed away at that point instead of trying to nair with you? Or simply held his ground?
When you're trying to pull Carroll into your defensive spacing traps you seem to have this urge to get back into the fray. This is more evident in your match on FD where you're actually doing a decent job of spacing out his approaches & keeping a solid defensive position with WD back (and some defensive lasers that were sloppy but he didn't punish them so w/e) but then you sacrifice it completely by shooting a laser moving forward. This is a horrible play for a lot of reasons. Patterns like this are consistent throughout the second game.
Some smaller things:
You seem to struggle when he's aiming at your head with FJ or such. In general u-tilt, bair (aim your bair to hit them with the raised foot), u-smash (as it's swinging up ideally but not necessary), dash dance (if you can get away from it in time), and shield (into shine) are good against things aimed at your head.
Manage your ledge invincibility better during edgeguards. It's easier to overlap people's bodies and shine them when you're invulnerable than it is to space the shine on their moving firefox hitbox. This also applies to aerials and other ledge strategies.
U-smash is not a good poke. Do not haphazardly throw it out vs opponents that haven't committed or given you any cue to do it. That's one of the easiest ways to get ***** with this character. Third only to "Missing in front of them" or "missing l-cancels on shields".
PGH Carroll
Smash Master
it was something like "yo0o0o0o0o fox! you need more hotdog hotdog wahttttttttttt!?!"
Waveshine to grab on space animals. Discovered this in 2007 as Cactuar said. Everyone too noob to take advantage of it. Called it the Omnigrab.
Works really well against spacies that smash DI the shine. Looks wonky as hell, too, but it's pretty sick.
If you space it near ledges (platforms including) you can time it so that the grab snatches the Fox/Falco during the "reset" frames of falling off the edge. There is a specific range that allows Fox to grab the spacies at the edge of the ledge (think BF or Yoshi's).
Very situational, but pretty damn cool to know that you can pick someone off the ground. My theory was that the initial hit of the shine knocks the opponent down, but before they are officially down they "bounce" back up before they fall into an official downed animation.
Works really well against spacies that smash DI the shine. Looks wonky as hell, too, but it's pretty sick.
If you space it near ledges (platforms including) you can time it so that the grab snatches the Fox/Falco during the "reset" frames of falling off the edge. There is a specific range that allows Fox to grab the spacies at the edge of the ledge (think BF or Yoshi's).
Very situational, but pretty damn cool to know that you can pick someone off the ground. My theory was that the initial hit of the shine knocks the opponent down, but before they are officially down they "bounce" back up before they fall into an official downed animation.
Thank you Kirbykaze, I really appreciate it. I've developed many bad habits playing only people significantly worse than I am and computers, and I'm having a hard time at this point identifying all these habits so your comments really help alot.
^^ right how did I forget that? stupid stupid me.
ZeldaFreak0309
Smash Journeyman
halp zhu's falco is hard
how do you guys get combo-starters on falco?? I can land stray hits but rarely get a real combo setup opportunity
how do you guys get combo-starters on falco?? I can land stray hits but rarely get a real combo setup opportunity
you combo falco early by getting a successful grab or up-smash (either from grab or shine knockdown).
you combo falco around 40% with up-tilt and falling up-airs. cc shine from falco loses around this %.
combo'ing Falco isn't a real goal. you want to catch him slipping once or twice and hit him with a two-hit setup that knocks him off the stage. always better to move falco off the stage or near the ledge as opposed to trying to combo into more damage as fox.
edit: also, free shine knockdowns are great. u may not be able to follow up all the time but at early %'s you want to interrupt falco's flow as much as possible. d-air tends to be the only safe aerial you can toss at to falco at early %'s without getting reversal'd with a shine.
you combo falco around 40% with up-tilt and falling up-airs. cc shine from falco loses around this %.
combo'ing Falco isn't a real goal. you want to catch him slipping once or twice and hit him with a two-hit setup that knocks him off the stage. always better to move falco off the stage or near the ledge as opposed to trying to combo into more damage as fox.
edit: also, free shine knockdowns are great. u may not be able to follow up all the time but at early %'s you want to interrupt falco's flow as much as possible. d-air tends to be the only safe aerial you can toss at to falco at early %'s without getting reversal'd with a shine.
Grab or shine
unknown522
Some guy
About to enter big house 2 in like 2 hours.
Inb425thplaceduetocontrollerjohns
Anyways, I'll try hard to fight it
Inb425thplaceduetocontrollerjohns
Anyways, I'll try hard to fight it
fortunecookie
Smash Journeyman
can someone post a video of this waveshine --> grab on falco? i need proof!!!
unknown522
Some guy
**** I was so close to beating hbox!!!!!
L__
Smash Master
cant wait to see the uploads
i was really rootin for you
i was really rootin for you
♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡
Anti-Illuminati
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2007
- Messages
- 1,863
You were playing ****ing amazing**** I was so close to beating hbox!!!!!
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
that was a very entertaining tourney. I wish I could have been there :'(
and I guess fox consistently wins nationals now....
and I guess fox consistently wins nationals now....
Divinokage
Smash Legend
What are you talking about.. just take characters you feel are good vs whatever matchup. Mango did not go all Fox.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
What are you talking about kage?
I said nothing about matchups.
I said nothing about matchups.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Fox could always win, I don't see your point.. saying something that was obvious since 02 isn't very fruitful for conversation.
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
It was sarcasm .-.
because people used to be all "when was the last time fox won a national"
Then mango happened twice :|
because people used to be all "when was the last time fox won a national"
Then mango happened twice :|
Divinokage
Smash Legend
The mind can limit yourself a lot, you know that? =)
These things people say... it baffles me, really.
These things people say... it baffles me, really.
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
winning a matchup people already considered to be in fox's favor doesn't change much.
it would have been more newsworthy if fly amanita had placed better. Unfortunately he placed exactly how high I expected him to place, though I had expected him to beat SFAT a little more solidly
it would have been more newsworthy if fly amanita had placed better. Unfortunately he placed exactly how high I expected him to place, though I had expected him to beat SFAT a little more solidly
Summonedfist
Smash Lord
was the waveshine -> boost grab similar to what happens here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDS29gYEsaM#t=0m49s
it's old, and it doesn't look like he's boost grabbing vs. just walking up and grabbing...
can someone explain?
it's old, and it doesn't look like he's boost grabbing vs. just walking up and grabbing...
can someone explain?
DerfMidWest
Fresh ******
you people are no fun >:|
Summonedfist
Smash Lord
so, in order to guaruntee the grab you boostgrab before the opportunity to tech is present?