Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[KirbyKaze]

 

[JPOBS]

Fox's shine is bigger than falco's. How is this even up for discussion =/

 

[FoxLisk]

Fox's **** is bigger than falco's. How is this even up for discussion =/

Obviously...

 

[Wake]

Arguing with Unknown about smash related things seems like a bad idea.

Also, is that Madonna, David? haha

 

[Zoler]

This thread > all, as usual

I thought everyone knew fox's shine is slightly bigger than falcos?

I really have to agree with leffen, why not just double shine? Double shines are so underrated. Falcos seem to use it a lot, foxes haven't caught up. It's probably because the nair shine pressure is a little bit tighter and looks really cool when you do it.

Also leffen stop being a douche hehe, cu soon hopefully ^_^

 

[Silent Wolf]

i dont get why you guys all think shine size is the only factor of the matter. keep in mind that fox's shield reaches much farther out forward than his shine does. also falcos shine pushes him back a bit each time.

i just tested it and it is EASILY possible to do a double shine and be out of reach of foxs shine as falco.

edit: to clarify, i did the test on a pretty full shield, which would be the likeliest scenario imo. especially since you wouldnt be doing a double shine in wait for a shine oos if they had a relatively small shield.

 

[JPOBS]

If fox's shine is bigger, how is it possible to be in range to hit fox with falco's double shine, without being at risk of being hit by fox's shine?

I'm not trying to be a prick, I just don't see how its logistically possible

edit: If we're only talking about the falco hitting the shield and nothing else then I understand. But I thought th argument was over whether wes' technique cud be used to hit fox and not be in danger of being his by shine oos

edit 2: ah, so you're only talking about hitting his shield. gotcha

 

[Silent Wolf]

If fox's shine is bigger, how is it possible to be in range to hit fox with falco's double shine, without being at risk of being hit by fox's shine?

I'm not trying to be a prick, I just don't see how its logistically possible

you dont need to be in range of fox's hitbox to be able to pressure his shield.

 

[fortunecookie]

Hmm but is it possible to shieldstab if falco is pressuring fox's shield at that range?



edit: stupid question haha.... . but if falco is pressuring fox's shield in that range... could you just drop your shield and avoid the shine because it won't reach fox's hitbox?

 

[Wenbobular]

We're not exactly playing Brawl here bro

 

[omgwtfToph]

omfg i love all you guys

we should settle this with a CREW BATTLE AT THE NEXT NATIONAL

westballz lovage sw vs. leffen unknown and uhh... idk raynex i guess

HYPE


edit: foreal though that would be pretty tight huh

 

[WestBallz]

Lmfao thanks otto at least someone knows something

 

[JPOBS]

Man, i dont care how good you are at this game. if all you have to say is to tell everyone how dumb they are for not understanding your vague a** statements and pretend to be superior, you need to grow the f*** up

 

[unknown522]

Lmfao thanks otto at least someone knows something

lol as I you know ****.

Anyways, SW, you can still shine oos assuming that you don't shield DI away. And anyways, you can just use another move if they hit the tip of their shine and/or just move out of the way drop the shield or we you want on it. I guess doing a different move will negate some of that but we weren't talking about that anyway...

 

[Eclectic Echo]

Seemed like everyone were arguing who's sausage is bigger between Falco and Fox. That's what it reminded me of anyway. :$

 

[WestBallz]

Man, i dont care how good you are at this game. if all you have to say is to tell everyone how dumb they are for not understanding your vague a** statements and pretend to be superior, you need to grow the f*** up

Actually i described how it doesn't work a couple pages back. Also unknown was acting like a know it all so i guess my post came off a bit douchelike. But ur right i should grow up and not make such silly posts.

 

[KirbyKaze]

This thread > all, as usual

I thought everyone knew fox's shine is slightly bigger than falcos?

I really have to agree with leffen, why not just double shine? Double shines are so underrated. Falcos seem to use it a lot, foxes haven't caught up. It's probably because the nair shine pressure is a little bit tighter and looks really cool when you do it.

Also leffen stop being a douche hehe, cu soon hopefully ^_^

Against characters that don't fall down from the shine, people don't double shine with Fox as much as with Falco because Fox can't convert stray shines during pressure strings into combos without committing to the shine hitting (barring shenanigans... like, hitting the shine and the nair combos outright, but that sort of thing is rare). The purpose of Fox's shine during pressure is primarily as a means to transition into another action - not initiate damage (which limits its utility). With Falco, it does both, so they can be more liberal about using it without hurting their efficiency.

This changes a bit based on whether people fall down from the shine. If they fail the tech and you commit to another action (aerial, usually) then it's not terrible - you won't be able to follow directly, but you're at reasonable advantage (in terms of options and such). If they get the tech, though, and you don't commit to the shine hitting, your string ends. So, there's still some limitations, but they're not terrible.

So, yeah. tl;dr Fox's shine hitting doesn't guarantee a combo or follow to the same degree that Falco's does. That's why people don't spam it as much during onstage pressure.

 

[Lovage]

and it's harder to do with fox beeep borpp

 

[KirbyKaze]

and it's harder to do with fox beeep borpp

This point is a lot more legit than people think.

 

[Strong Badam]

On the subject of Shine hitboxes, Fox's is indeed larger than Falco's. Fox's hitbox is size 2048, and Falco's is 1536. This is 25% smaller than Fox's.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Man, Falco is ****ing terrible. Shine hitbox 25% smaller than Foxes? Low tier IMO.

 

[unknown522]

Actually i described how it doesn't work a couple pages back. Also unknown was acting like a know it all so i guess my post came off a bit douchelike. But ur right i should grow up and not make such silly posts.

I'm not trying to be an *******, but if I can help people then I will try to.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Girls, girls, you're both pretty.

 

[Warhawk]

On the subject of Shine hitboxes, Fox's is indeed larger than Falco's. Fox's hitbox is size 2048, and Falco's is 1536. This is 25% smaller than Fox's.

Wow I didn't realize it was that drastic... That's weird too because isn't Falco's reflector itself bigger than Foxes?

 

[FrenchToasts]

I need advice against good puff players...

 

[Blistering Speed]

How about everyone shuts the **** up about inconsequential theoretical minutiae and goes and practices spacing or something.

 

[Strong Badam]

"Practice spacing"
oh, okay

 

[Jim Morrison]

>implying spacing will be useful in an ACTAUL match

 

[Silent Wolf]

I need advice against good puff players...

Me too :/

Oscar/kk/others drop your knowledge

 

[S l o X]

Major don'ts vs Sheik?

 

[omgwtfToph]

The biggest don't vs sheik, imo, is don't let yourself get baited into trying to punish something she does that looks unsafe (i.e. punishable) but actually isn't.

 

[knightpraetor]

you mean like almost everything...freaking jab/tilt startup being near zero

 

[Strong Badam]

startup != endlag tho

 

[Silent Wolf]

The biggest don't vs sheik, imo, is don't let yourself get baited into trying to punish something she does that looks unsafe (i.e. punishable) but actually isn't.

i dont think thats very helpful for someone who needs help with the match up like that lol. id give advice but i can only combo sheik lol

 

[Sinji]

Sveet is your avatar the actual hitbox for foxes shine?

 

[Strong Badam]

No. that is Fox's shine's graphic effect within the orb that resides under Final Destination.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

^ .

 

[fortunecookie]

Sveet is your avatar the actual hitbox for foxes shine?

haha nah thats the size that fox's shine hitbox should be!

 

[omgwtfToph]

i dont think thats very helpful for someone who needs help with the match up like that lol. id give advice but i can only combo sheik lol

no I literally think it's the most important thing lol (at least the most important "don't"), even at low levels

like even when I watch noob foxes lose to noob sheiks it's because they run into the garbage tilts that the sheik spams trying to punish something

 

[Lovage]

no I literally think it's the most important thing lol (at least the most important "don't"), even at low levels

like even when I watch noob foxes lose to noob sheiks it's because they run into the garbage tilts that the sheik spams trying to punish something

yeah it's not bad advice, i would phrase it by saying all of sheik's moves cept her smashes are fast as **** and it's not like you can DD grab them like it's a falcon or something. half the matchup is baiting out her dash attacks and bad fairs and then bairing her (or drill if its a really HARD READDDDDDD))))

edit:
actually i wouldn't say any of that

i'd just say get good at edge guarding and every matchup becomes 70% easier. edge guarding is the biggest, easiest, most obvious flaw every lower level smasher has but no one wants to be really critical on themselves for it for some reason.

i HATE missing easy edge guards (edge guards where their position is so good it might be a toss-up aren't so bad) and really focus on that as the #1 way to force myself to play better if i'm playing bad, just don't let them get back on da stage lol.

just imagine it: if 95% of the falcon community was as good as hax is when it comes to edge guarding sheik, they would say the matchup is even on the boards lol.