Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

What if you SDI behind and techroll? And we're talking about the regular forward hit, right? Because the upwards hit is almost impossible to escape.

 

[takieddine]

I'm pretty sure the second hit up of marth's side b is CC'able to very reasonable percents, its a fairly weak move.

 

[soap]

also is there anyway to approach with a u-tilt facing backwards w/o shining first or would it be better to shine first? j/w thanks.

i approach with rev. utilts by doing a dash dance into a backwards wavedash i.e. long dash forward, short dash back to turn around then immed. wavedash back. i do the shine turn wavedash thing out of a full run

 

[takieddine]

Nair turnaround uptilt, is pretty much my bread and butter.

 

[RaynEX]

Try this:

DD a bit then dash away and wavedash towards them (with your back facing them), and space a dsmash. It goes through shields alot and catches opponents off-guard too. If you space it properly, they can't grab you and you can just keep moving again. Another cool thing, is that if they attempt to grab you after the reverse dsmash and you space it like I mentioned, you can land an utilt during their grab lag.

I came up with it a long time ago...I think its a pretty cool trick.

 

[Falcinho]

nice, i gotta try this

 

[Brookman]

Stationary lasers = win

 

[Brookman]

tech chase with pivot up/down/fsmash/grab

 

[LuCKy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDFyukccXG4 wow this match is awesome ^____^

 

[RaynEX]

Lucky got Lucky Zhu didn't Crouch-cancel the 50 or so nairs you did to him. >_> Each CC could have been a death combo.

Also, lol at dash attack dsmash edge-guard.

 

[Lovage 805]

****it rayn you talk way too much theory less reality

 

[RaynEX]

Have you ever seen a pro Falco play? Why would someone eat so many nairs if they could avoid it. Forget avoiding it, if they could COUNTER it.

The fact that he didn't CC any of the nairs is his mistake, flat out. Its perfectly fine for me to call him out for it, if thats what you're complaining about. For God sakes even Fox can CC another fox's nair and shine-> thunders.

My theories are based on realistic principles.

 

[Europhoria]

****it rayn you talk way too much theory less reality

Watch Quebec Crew vs. It's Business Time from FCD. The video is dated, and the Quebec Crew is unbelievably better now but watch Ckitsune vs. Bam. Everytime Kitsune n-airs he gets shined and takes a combo. Also watch Cactuar vs. Lambchops from crews in Georgia. It's very realistic, good falcos do things like that.

 

[Silent Wolf]

The way you say that seems to create the implication that Zhu isn't a pro Falco, and he is. Just saying. Good games Joey :D

 

[Cactuar]

My fox works for reasons that no one can really figure out. Not a good example...

<3

 

[soap]

zhu moves around too much too crouch cancel. maybe its just not his style to sit there and take hits.

 

[Cactuar]

CC is amazing at high level play unfortunately. Good Falcos should really abuse it and get the free **** combos.

 

[RaynEX]

zhu moves around too much too crouch cancel. maybe its just not his style to sit there and take hits.

He has to learn to pick his battles. But I also get what you mean.

SW: Pros make mistakes too. Just because he's Zhu doesn't mean his tactics are beyond contestation.

 

[KirbyKaze]

what confuses me about zhu is that his older stuff looks better than his newer stuff (compare how he combos lunin and ss and whatever from several months ago including his cc shines to wavelands and **** combos and whatnot to how he does stuff now) and much more effectual. maybe his region as a whole has got better at di? then again i don't know falco too well so whatever.

it's just somewhat surprising. i know Lucky is a solid fox i just didn't think he'd be able to beat Zhu (combination of matchup and zhu being ****). then again this game proves me wrong all the time so whatever.

 

[Silent Wolf]

Don't judge people off of videos. If it's all you have to judge from, just don't.

 

[Shiek Ownz]

Yeah I no I suck but I can't manage to waveshine/infinite so could you please help me?

Thanks in advance

 

[ArcNatural]

The dash attack edgegaurd is actually a very good tactic against Falco's who shorten the illusion a lot. Since if you think they are going to illusion anyway the hitbox stays out long enough to hit both a regular illusion and a shortened one.

 

[RaynEX]

I never said it was bad. I just think it was lol. Looked funny.

 

[The Fail Tracer]

Yeah I no I suck but I can't manage to waveshine/infinite so could you please help me?

Thanks in advance

If you're asking how you are supposed to do it, basically, I may be able to help.

Hold down diagonally on the control stick, and press B. Immediately wavedash, and you will be able to escape your own shine. Repeat this to your opponent, and you should be able to shine him to the end of the stage and shine-spike.

To infinite, Waveshine downwards towards a wall. It takes A LOT of practice and speed, and I'm still not good at it yet.

 

[Tero.]

I never said it was bad. I just think it was lol. Looked funny.

I agree it looked really funny.

 

[GOTM]

The dash attack edgegaurd is actually a very good tactic against Falco's who shorten the illusion a lot. Since if you think they are going to illusion anyway the hitbox stays out long enough to hit both a regular illusion and a shortened one.

ive NEVER done this. i should try it.

 

[RaynEX]

The dash attack edgegaurd is actually a very good tactic against Falco's who shorten the illusion a lot. Since if you think they are going to illusion anyway the hitbox stays out long enough to hit both a regular illusion and a shortened one.

Now that I think about it...utilt, fsmash and bair from edge all work better than this. They can d.i. this and escape a follow-up. : /

edit: If they're stupid enough to illusion straight at you, thinking you don't have the timing to edge-guard properly, they deserve an fsmash, not a dash attack.

 

[ArcNatural]

Now that I think about it...utilt, fsmash and bair from edge all work better than this. They can d.i. this and escape a follow-up. : /

edit: If they're stupid enough to illusion straight at you, thinking you don't have the timing to edge-guard properly, they deserve an fsmash, not a dash attack.

uptilt won't work if they shorten it and are going for the edge. The whole point of shortening the illusion is to make you mistime the uptilt, fsmash, etc. Fsmash could possibly work but if they illusion over you you won't have time to punish the landing lag. There is no escape from this if you hit them, Falco under the stage and can only firefox? Just drop off and shine, Fox is a little trickier but you can still drop and shine them before the firefox initializes the actual hitbox frames.

Obviously at higher percentages this isn't as effective as they will get popped up higher from the dash attack, but low to mid percentages if your opponent mixes between full illusions and shorter ones you would be surprised at how well it works.

 

[CanISmash]

chain grabbing spacies.

how do you do it, for how long?

do they have to be jump canceled, someone was mentioning them being dash attack cancelled.... explain pelase. thx.

oh yeah ideas when getting chain grabbed by marth? would it be better to try to shine jump out of it, just jump out of it, di-up jumping, di left / right hope they miss.

also tips on not letting them finish it with a missed- tech b-throw f-smash.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

I usually do it with JC grabs, but I might be wrong on that one. I believe it goes up to 40ish 50ish? Personally, I like to end it with a charged Usmash.

Arc: I'm glad to see you're still using the sig I made you xD

 

[Falcinho]

Actually you can shine out at 22-23% (If you DI up+behind Marth; needs a bit more % for no DI i think)
But if you don't get out of it until about 33% Marth can utilt (with any DI) and regrab or utiltjuggle.

So if you don't get out between ~23% and ~33% and the Marth doesn't mess up you usually get chained/comboed to 60-70%.

Yeah... too much numbers i know ^_^

 

[L__]

Can anyone help me with reverse waveshines?

Like...I can waveshine out of the shine backwards...but I end up turning the way I shine.

In a nutshell, I want to wavedash backwards out of my shine. :X

 

[Oskurito]

You're probably holding the control stick after pressing x/y which makes you turn around when you actually press it. This is the way you should do it:

Down+B>press x>press L+any backwards direction below 45 degrees

 

[RaynEX]

Actually you can shine out at 22-23% (If you DI up+behind Marth; needs a bit more % for no DI i think)
But if you don't get out of it until about 33% Marth can utilt (with any DI) and regrab or utiltjuggle.

So if you don't get out between ~23% and ~33% and the Marth doesn't mess up you usually get chained/comboed to 60-70%.

Yeah... too much numbers i know ^_^

Actually, the only way to get out of Marth's CG is:

in between 24-30%, no d.i. and shine. If the Marth tries to grab in between those percents, shine will beat it. It depends on Marth screwing up though, because he can simply pivot grab you to avoid the shine, or utilt you and re-grab at 30%.

The general rule, when it comes to escaping cging, is to not d.i. the throw. Seeing as almost all cgs require some sort of d.i. for a combo to work after the throw, it makes sense to just not d.i. the throw then smash d.i. the hit. Thats what I do anyways.

 

[Da Shuffla]

Is Uthrow to Uair the only thing Fox can do against Marth, or are there more options?

 

[Silent Wolf]

Is Uthrow to Uair the only thing Fox can do against Marth, or are there more options?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAmthNm61PA

 

[Toobz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAmthNm61PA

what the ****?! no way.

 

[Da Shuffla]

Wow, that was a serious comeback. Should I really attempt shine>Bair?

 

[Tero.]

Should I really attempt shine>Bair?

No.

Spoiler

10shines

 

[RaynEX]

That match is ****ing sexy. Eggz, yo fox is crazy.