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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
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Location
Montreal, Quebec
Because he is the only peach player at the level that he should be winning.

How good you are =/= consistency

Consistency = being able to perform at a similar level on the majority/all occasions.
I don't agree because if that were the case then a max level wouldn't exist. Do you realize how hard it is to stay at your max level during a whole tournament, that should be the true consistency. You have to compare to the top level if not then there's no point in being content by having mediocre consistency. Just like anything can influence your level of consistency like in that SF vid, whether you are facing a strong player or your mind is weak on that day.. etc. There's really no point to fight if you don't want to surpass the top players.
 

Druggedfox

Smash Champion
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
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Location
Atlanta
You have to consider people's current "max levels" though. There is no other peach player, who even if they were playing the best they'd ever played, who could win an international tournament; that is, other than armada.

If macd/vanz/whoever were to play his best in every single game of every single set of every single tournament he still wouldn't win an international. He'd be AMAZINGLY consistent, but he wouldn't win.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
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Messages
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Location
Montreal, Quebec
Well that probably means they haven't trained enough. I'm positive Armada puts more time than anyone else and has the will to stay the best. It's their fault for not doing so as well, I'm pretty sure they only play every once in a while.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
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Messages
16,250
Location
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KK when you switch up from I don't care to I want to **** someone of course your level will change drastically. =P Right now, I definitely strongly believe that it's all about the mind always. You are your own limiter of potential.

For example, I know a lot of people get discouraged when they see what the top level is like or compare themselves to it and say to themselves: "Oh I will never reach that level, I suck.. etc." *Shrugs* People are strange to me, convincing themselves of anything to not go all the way. All you gotta do, is do it, that's it, no more, no less...

Oh well anyways.. I think that's how it is.
 

FoxLisk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
1,851
If by **** on you mean most of the higher leveled ones make bracket at the hardest tournaments to ever exist and do well, then yeah.
Pound 4:

3: Amsah
4: Armada
17: over triforce
17: Zgetto
17: Remen
33: Adam
33: strawhat dahean

Ridiculous EU representation
yeah i do mean **** on. if their 3rd best player & on - we could consider them the 2nd tier of players - top out at tied 17th, then for any conversation where anyone's **** talking Jman for getting 5th, their top players got **** on by ours.

and extending the '2nd tier' thing, either ~14 of our players are 1st tier, or our 2nd tier players are way better than EU's; in either case, my point holds.

Also Kage you, as usual, don't appear to have any idea what anyone else is saying! shhhhhh
 

leffen

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Location
Stockholm, Sweden
ok so;
niko, stop johning and backing your boy up just for the sake for it, jesus if we europeans came ****ting "OMGHEDIDNtCAAAARE!!!" and **** everytime one of our players looks bad... you even admitted that you have nothing to say, so please.

comparing DGDTJ to The big house as a reason for jman being better is laughable.
aside from the fact that it was 1 year ago jman beat:
falcomist [who wasnt active at the time, and frankly, sucked ****]
mango's marth [who admitted that he let jman win because he needed the money or smth, anyway, clear sandbag]
zhu
lucky
thats it LOL. Don't get me wrong but beating zhu or lucky is not something that makes you THE BEST FOX >_>.

Lovage on the other hand beat:
Kirbykaze
Duck
Vanz
S2J

how is that in favor of Jman o_o.


as for europe vs usa... I find it funny that you use pound4 which was TWO YEARS AGO as a comparison... not factoring in that we could improve when you OBVIOUSLY talk like you have improved lots. you guys haven't traveled [like I have] and the way you think is just hilarious...
lets continue to use your logic shall we.

Zgetto placed 17 at pound 4. Therefor he is better than:
33. Eggm
33. VanZ
33. Darc
33. Raynex
33. Lovage
33. Scar
33. Shroomed
33. MacD
33. I.B.
33. KirbyKaze
25. Cactuar
25. ChuDat
25. Falcomist
as good as axe

if it helps you could also factor in that Plank, Silent Spectre and Tope placed the same as PP... but no american would ever argue that PP is still that bad would you? [not that I do, just commenting on the logic]

Remen at pound 5 [who is ranked a fair bit worse than Zgetto and me atm in the EU]:
outplaced:
25. Chillin
25. Raynex
25. Col Bol
17. KirbyKaze
17. Mango (I know, didn't try etc, but this also means that he gave a free high placing to others like he did to jman at DGDTJ]
17. S2J
17 Lovage
17 Chu
13 SW
13 Kels
13 Zhu
13 Unknown522

and before you argue "omg jman didnt even attend x tournament" well... remen/zgetto/me didn't attend DGDTJ, RoM4 or The big house either. You don't really have any basis for saying that we would've done worse >_> aside from incredibly long drawn inui logic.

oh and yeah, Cactuar did outplace him by 1 placement, but that was mainly because he got Mango who you either gave him a *free win* or is that he is worse than Remen/Amsah [obviously wrong].

Remember guys, that this is beside the fact that we have to play in a COMPLETELY different version, aside from 8+hour jet lag, home advantage etc. Using your logic and comparing how we did in your tournaments [fkn 2 years ago] we could also say that you have NEVER come over here which makes any "youdid****whenyoucameoverher" way inferior to the argument of "you didn't even come over here and our best player beats all of yours".

extending some of that for funsies: together, they have defeated/outplaced everyone that jman/lovage defeated to win their ohsoimportant nationals (except for lucky, who didn't attend pound 5 and who I outplaced at g2). this is obviously not conclusive/completely serious but it puts some perspective on the situation lol.



lol huge post, well to my excuse i'm HELLA bored. anyway to conclude,4 EU foxes [any of me,IVP,remen, zgetto, prof pro, ice's for example]being better than jman isn't that unlikely and you don't really have a basis for saying that THERE IS NO WAY that there could be, especially considering how I have traveled and played them both recently while you have not...


oh and: druggedfox, I agree 100%. Armada has even admits himself that its easier to be consistent with peach than most characters, he says himself (iirc ofc) that aside from GFs pound 5 (not to john but, he missed a lot of simple things) and overall pound 4 where he thinks he played sub par he usually plays good in the us (him losing to hbox at apex 2010 was more him being bad/the matchup being bad).

kage ur fkn crazy and understanding your posts [not that I ever do more than glance over them and laugh nowadays] is impossible.

foxlisk ur just dumb. go die.
 

JPOBS

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Mos Eisley
i, for one, like the fact that leffen brings beef back to the community.
i was pretty ****ing bored of the friendship is magic path we had been going down for the few years.

I think lovage is the best fox in the world right now.
After The Great [YRSF]Raynex of couse.
 

leffen

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
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Stockholm, Sweden
I also think myself [lolimaproveitatapex, if I decide not go yoshi lol], lovage and pc chris are those who will place highest with mainly fox at apex. thats aside from m2k and mango, obviously.
sfat,jman,unknown,raynex and others will prob do well too.

I also think that falco is gonna get the **** at apex [just like he has at every other national, there are always more fox players in bracket]
m2k im gonna do that peach writeup now, practice fox moreeeee.

look at how fox did at rom 4, seriously.

1: Mango half/half
2: Dr. Pee Pee falco
3: M2K secondaries fox
4: J Man fox
5: Hax$
5: Kage
7: Azen Fox
7: TecZero maybe fox? uses him a bit iirc
9: DOH
9: Cactuar Fox
9: Big **** Darrell
9: Silent Swag
13: Tope
13: Niko
13: Chillindude Fox
13: RED ?
17: DJN Fox
17: Kevin M fox
17: HBK used a little of both iirc?
17: MattDottZeb falco, a bit fox iirc
17: Swiftbass fox
17: th0rn falco, fox secondary iirc
17: Spawn fox
17: Cyrain fox


onto big house:
1: Lovage ($648) fox
2: S2J ($324)
3: VanZ ($243)
4: KirbyKaze ($162) plays vs puff iirc
5: Unknown522 ($81) fox
5: Duck ($81)
7: [YRSF] Raynex ($40) fox
7: Weon-X ($40) fox


lolololollo
 

mesa23

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2011
Messages
248
Location
Miami, FL
i, for one, like the fact that leffen brings beef back to the community.
i was pretty ****ing bored of the friendship is magic path we had been going down for the few years.
this

leffen i used to hate your posts but then i realized that thanks to your posts and those of a few other peeps the boards got hella fun to read and stuff

also, i was really impressed by your yoshi and fox in some recentish vids from beauty 3 and tampora 3 and beast 2. keep on keeping on so you can show us silly flopmericans what's what.
 

FoxLisk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
1,851
i, for one, like the fact that leffen brings beef back to the community.
i was pretty ****ing bored of the friendship is magic path we had been going down for the few years.
youre welcome for contributing :)
 

leffen

Smash Champion
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Jun 30, 2008
Messages
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Location
Stockholm, Sweden
updated my post above^

I did a similar writeup on all the big nationals in the BR btw, and fox won all of them in terms of dominance.

lolfoxsobroken.
 

FoxLisk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
1,851
updated my post above^

I did a similar writeup on all the big nationals in the BR btw, and fox won all of them in terms of dominance.

lolfoxsobroken.
not sure if you're talking about how great fox or EU is but neither of your points is proven and the first isnt debated

and jman beating zhu is more impressive than anyone on your list of who lovage beat. s2j included because at the time it wasnt as impressive although now he's (imo) about as good as zhu or maybe better.
 

leffen

Smash Champion
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Jun 30, 2008
Messages
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Location
Stockholm, Sweden
lmao.
first of, what the **** do you mean with " s2j included because at the time it wasnt as impressive although now he's (imo) about as good as zhu or maybe better."
iirc s2j is ranked above zhu atm in socal and zhu has been inactive.
secondly: lucky beat zhu too at that tournament, ended up 25th at G2.


oh and
remen outplaced zhu at pound 5 (his last national, too)
bam.
 

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,047
Location
Toronto, Ontario
look at how fox did at rom 4, seriously.

1: Mango half/half
2: Dr. Pee Pee falco
3: M2K secondaries fox
4: J Man fox
5: Hax$
5: Kage
7: Azen Fox
7: TecZero maybe fox? uses him a bit iirc
9: DOH
9: Cactuar Fox
9: Big **** Darrell
9: Silent Swag
13: Tope
13: Niko
13: Chillindude Fox
13: RED ?
17: DJN Fox
17: Kevin M fox
17: HBK used a little of both iirc?
17: MattDottZeb falco, a bit fox iirc
17: Swiftbass fox
17: th0rn falco, fox secondary iirc
17: Spawn fox
17: Cyrain fox


onto big house:
1: Lovage ($648) fox
2: S2J ($324)
3: VanZ ($243)
4: KirbyKaze ($162) plays vs puff iirc
5: Unknown522 ($81) fox
5: Duck ($81)
7: [YRSF] Raynex ($40) fox
7: Weon-X ($40) fox


lolololollo
but barely any of the good falco mains went to those tourneys though.

the best falco main who went to the big house was moose/little england. But my falco is better than both of theirs -_-

For Rom 4, aside from mango/pp, the next best falco there apparently was azen.....(by placing. IMO thorn is better with falco). I'm pretty sure he used falco more than fox at that.

For more players in the list:
- I'm not sure if M2K went fox at all since Hbox wasn't there, but marth/sheik brought him to his placing.
- Mango's falco brought him to first place.
- Tec0's sheik brought him to the placing that he got.
- I'm pretty sure spawn mains sheik. Unless he switched recently.
- I don't think Thorn/MDZ went fox
- I think you may be right about cactuar. Dunno how much marth he used.

Still, most of the fox users listed outside of Jman placed like 17th and below...A lot of players that are listed there either don't main/secondary fox, or maybe played of in like 1 match or 1 set. Also, again none of the high level falcos went to RoM4 aside from mango/pp. And again, the next placing falcos are worse than mine...and I don't even main the character.
 

Jim Morrison

Smash Authority
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Aug 28, 2008
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The Netherlands
I'm with Leffen on this one, EU represented way harder than the USA so far. These *****s had better step it up and come to Norway in 2012 and redeem the little credibility their whole country has left (CANADA INCLUDED AS A US STATE).

Also, EU > USA in terms of skill per player. You have quantity, we have quality.
 

leffen

Smash Champion
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unknown: im not gonna debate every single player since that is just redundant and dumb.
but the fact that no good falco players is mostly due to the fact that there are way less falco players that make brackets at a national level.

I think its pretty clear though that if either of them dominates the other in perfomance, its fox that wins. you can't regard 1 outlier (PP) as highly as ppl do lol. by that logic peach is better than falco >_>.
 

leffen

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Druggedfox, he didn't say that you didnt have quality, he just said that we have a better ratio of skill per player, which we, frankly, outclass you in.

Sweden is easily the country with the highest skill/population in all of E-sports (think about it) and
Southern sweden is probably the region with the highest skill density in smash, too.
 

Wake

Smash Master
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Sep 27, 2010
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Thank you Based Mimi.
Druggedfox, he didn't say that you didnt have quality, he just said that we have a better ratio of skill per player, which we, frankly, outclass you in.

Sweden is easily the country with the highest skill/population in all of E-sports (think about it) and
Southern sweden is probably the region with the highest skill density in smash, too.
Naniwa, Jinro, Armada... something's in the water.
 

leffen

Smash Champion
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Naniwa, Jinro, Armada... something's in the water.
Thorzain...

as for CS; NiP, HeatoN, spawn.

we ***** quake

HoN - we dominate, LIONS, HonPortal, JaGa, OK... most teams that aren't 100% american have ****tons of swedes in it.

thats just a few lol.

sweeeeden baby.
 

Druggedfox

Smash Champion
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May 13, 2007
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Atlanta
"You have quantity, we have quality."

I'm pretty sure he said that. I know he also said the thing about having "skill per player". Even though he said that, he also said the quality vs quantity thing.

To be honest, I'm not sure why I even commented. I think the whole nationalistic type thinking if ****ing ******** anyway, it was more to point out an objectively incorrect statement.

I couldn't care less if someone's from EU or from USA or from Japan, and I don't think it should be brought up nearly this much. In this game I appreciate people based on their skill, as a player; I love some EU players and I hate some. Same goes for america, and I'm pretty tired of all this back and forth stuff.

Trash talk is fine, and hype is fine. Ultimately though, idgaf and I'll root for my favorite players regardless of where they are from.

/random 7 am rant I need to go to bed
 

Zoler

Smash Ace
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Sweden probably has the highest skill/population ratio ever, but not just e-sports, sports (too f*cking much to list), music, etc

Cheers USA ;D

:phone:
 

PK Webb

Smash Champion
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Dec 24, 2007
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the lab
Lovage beat kk vanz duck s2j
Jman beat tezero vanz(when he lived in tristate) hax and we dont have a compareable samus but I dont see that argument.
 

leffen

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@Druggedfox: lol I agree tbh, im just being ******** on the boards.


@Twebb. Ur dumb.
Vanz beat Jman last time (and hax), while S2j and lovage beat him
Lovage beat hax
comparing teczero and kk isnt fair imho either
 

PK Webb

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do u no how many time jman has beaten vanz?????? jman>vanz even vanz said that. teczero is a beast sheik. he has quite the record. the man took 9 stocks in the zenith crew battle. he went to wc and got second on the good player fund and beat tope at rom 4 so i think teczero can be listed u fool. ***** u play yoshi get off the good char board and go to ur 3 person player board. s2j said hax is same level or better than him currently. he posted that like 6 days ago in the usa vs the world thread.
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
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Montreal, Quebec
Leffen if you can't even read my posts, then how do you hope to deal with my nonsense in RL? You are going to get your *** kicked for free, stfu.
 

ZoSo

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Melee
Leffen is merely continuing a long tradition of EU players hating on Jman.

Seriously, I think Faab needs to give Leffen the info for the virusbluemage account. The torch needs to be passed.

Merry Christmas, Fox Q&A!
 

JPOBS

Smash Hero
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the difference is that leffen, unlike most other people who like to ruffle feathers, is actually good at maylay, and might actually beat the people he's trash talking
 

leffen

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the difference is that leffen, unlike most other people who like to ruffle feathers, is actually good at maylay, and might actually beat the people he's trash talking
lol, thats the thing

everyone wishes that I was much worse here in sweden too.

first months of me playing:
did a top 10 list, said that the 4th (dev) wasnt that good
people shouted at me, omg your just a new player, it doesnt matter how talented you are, you will NEVER beat him and he could 4 stock you in his sleep.
2-0d him next tournament.
and lots of
ima be top 2 when I've played a year
no omg lol
but so I was

and now with this yoshi thing:
omg you'll never beat ME with YOSHI.
won my 3 first tournaments with him annihilating everyone

sometimes I wonder what its like not to be talented, to actually suck like most ppl.
people would flame me so much more lol and I would just look like kage trying to major in physics.
but then I spew arrogant bull**** over the internet 5 minutes later because I can.

I may be cocky/confident, but im not OVERconfident. Im just exactly as arrogant, cocky and confident that I need to be to be to win and to show the truth (when debating, I dont sugar coat, at all).

pp has also realized this lately which is why you see him be more "cocky" etc.
if you're aiming for the top, then you need to be.


sveet. you're right. I'd never face you to begin with. I don't do amateur brackets.
 

Meneks

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
1,100
Location
chicago, illinois
How do i ledgetech Marths counter?

Do I Smash di down+toward the stage?

I used to be able to do it with fox/falco but now for some reason I can't lol
 
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