Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Navn]

I'm not very experienced and I want to get better with Fox (feeling more comfortable with Fox than Marth), so can someone please go over what's wrong with my playstyle?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVU5I__thgM#t=2m56s

Besides a few technical issues that you're struggling with and should learn, your movement is somewhat clunky. It's like you don't quite know when you can move your character again after an action, and because of that you have small breaks between everything that you could easily optimize to become a faster player.

Besides that i feel like you could be more reactive to what your opponent is doing (although that can be rather hard in fast-paced Fox-dittos, i admit), instead of throwing attacks at his face and hope it works.

I also feel that you're way more technical than you show in this video. You do some cool stuff between the stocks when he's dead, but you resort to sluggish Fsmashes when you're actually fighting him instead of using your technical ability.

tl;dr try to speed up your Fox

Hope that helps.

edit: Also, when edguarding: It's really cool to use uptilts against him when he sidebs unto the stage. Side-b has no priority, and the duration of uptilts hitbox is kinda long, so it's a pretty easy timing and you can combo him into backairs with it.

 

[Thanos828]

i find it a lot harder to reverse SDHL, or do a running SDHL, if I were to use control stick to sh. for shine SHDL flashiness i use control stick but for any other situation, i use Y.

I know for waveshining there's a trick for frame perfection by using X to wavedash and sliding the finger over the A button. Is there a similar trick to save time getting from Y to B?

 

[lanabo]

I'm not very experienced and I want to get better with Fox (feeling more comfortable with Fox than Marth), so can someone please go over what's wrong with my playstyle?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVU5I__thgM#t=2m56s

Hey, I noticed that all except for once when you had the ledge you recovered using ledgehop or lodgehop dair. I think your opponent caught onto this because one time he just ran up and up smashed you lol. Try to mix it up with other recovery methods, like wavedash/shine wavedash onto stage, ledgehop away to side-b, or just stalling on the ledge to try and bait him into doing something so that you can recover safely or perhaps punish him for it.

Navn's advice against edguarding Side-B is good, but if you can react fast enough you can actually jump off and aerial to interrupt the side b. This is admittedly better against Falco but it works against Fox too.

I don't know how well this works in higher level play, but I've found that it's a really good option for edgeguarding side-b if you can't turn around and get to do that up tilt in time, or if you just want to look fancy. With the amateur people that I play with, it works pretty well.

I actually learned it from watching some Mango vs PP friendlies, as seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov7TuP28uL0&feature=player_detailpage#t=560s

It's not as safe as using up tilt, though. If they catch on they'll just vary their side-b times and then if they're Falco you'll end up meteor smashed downward by that stupid move if you miss the timing. Either that or they'll just recover differently and you'll have to adapt, but hey that's melee.

Also..

It doesn't really matter what you do vs Doc as long as you don't mess up (unless they're really good, like Shroomed or something).

But, if you want to be gay...

Up tilt him out of aerial approaches; bair him out of everything; drillshine to d-tilt, up smash, dash attack, or grab; beat all of his aerials when he's coming down from up throw with up tilt (except dair; shine oos or something on that).

Camp him so you're never near the edge during engagements. He doesn't really have a good dash dance or anything. Just a surprisingly aggravating crouch cancel, some big throw combos, and some really dangerous gimps. Play to avoid those.

If he lands onstage with Up+B lag at low percent, don't be stupid and try to do a hero gimp. Just up air combo him for like 40%+ and stalk his landing with something (maybe dash attack) and then work from there. Keep it simple. Don't be fancy. Doc sucks.

Do the same things apply against Mario? Should I just consider Mario a worse Doc? I'm gonna be facing a Mario main soon and I've only had experience against Doc, so I'm wondering if there's anything different about Mario that I should watch out for.

 

[omgwtfToph]

Navn's advice against edguarding Side-B is good, but if you can react fast enough you can actually jump off and aerial to interrupt the side b. This is admittedly better against Falco but it works against Fox too.

You can't do that reactively. You can't wait for their side-B and then use that edgeguard, you have to pre-empt their side-B with it. The plus side is that it covers multiple options. But then, so does waiting and utilting/dsmashing (and doing something else if they don't side-B)

 

[Strong Badam]

I know for waveshining there's a trick for frame perfection by using X to wavedash and sliding the finger over the A button. Is there a similar trick to save time getting from Y to B?

1. I do frame perfect waveshines with Y & B.
2. No, it's just having fast fingers & a lot of practice.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Y just makes more sense because its closer and there isnt a button in between

 

[Druggedfox]

Uh, to go from Y to B you can use the tip of your thumb to press Y and closer to the base of your thumb to press B. The same tehcnique is used for multishining.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Waveshining is so slow, you could get a cup of tea before you have to go from Y to B.

 

[ShroudedOne]

It's true, I've done so before. If I recall correctly, it was Amandine Rose.

 

[rokimomi]

I'm not very experienced and I want to get better with Fox (feeling more comfortable with Fox than Marth), so can someone please go over what's wrong with my playstyle?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVU5I__thgM#t=2m56s

Methinks nervousness got the best of you for a lot of decisions you made. I know it did me in a few times. Striking a pose for youtube isn't the easiest thing at our lvl. We shoulda friendlied afterwards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6fOoq_umAg&feature=related

Critiques? I think "dont tech in place" is a given.

 

[Winston]

1. I do frame perfect waveshines with Y & B.

How would you know if they're frame perfect? (serious question)

slash what do you define as frame perfect waveshining

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Because part of being inducted into the MBR is a vision test


a vision test for frame counting

 

[Navn]

Critiques? I think "dont tech in place" is a given.

This is actually far from true. Tech in place, along with no tech -> getup might be the options that are hardest to react to, since they're so fast. The way i see it it's about taking a weighed decision. You have some options that are better, but your opponent will expect you to do this more often (good players can cover like 75% of your options, so it's pretty tough).

You can definitely tech in place, aslong as you mix it up with the other ways of standing up.

 

[rokimomi]

I definitely understand that argument but vs a falcon I always feel like techning in place, even if they slightly overshoot or overpredict a knee, can be regrabbed really easily, might just be me being scared though.

 

[Navn]

I definitely understand that argument but vs a falcon I always feel like techning in place, even if they slightly overshoot or overpredict a knee, can be regrabbed really easily, might just be me being scared though.

Yep.

Don't get knocked to the ground is probably the best solution.

 

[ShroudedOne]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPVrMfk4GeM#t=2m50s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JiwjiVjGWc#t=4m05s

So I finally have vids that I feel comfortable with posting. Would anyone be willing to give me a critique? I already know that I need more tech skill, so I just need more strategical tidbits, things to keep doing/stop doing, etc. Just watch the Fox vs Falcon ones, please (He mains Falcon, so those are the ones that matter the most).

I'm still in that space where I'm still getting used to just being bodied for no reason (or killing myself) because I'm a spacie (I main Peach and rarely have to deal with it). So there are probably things in there that will illicit a chuckle.

Thanks!

 

[Winston]

-Get better at converting your hits into combo starters. Nair -> waveshine at very low percents, Nair -> grab at mid percents. Nair grab is really key. Also, lots of times when you shine defensively it connects, but you full jump out of it instead of waveshining towards him.

-choose better times to approach with nair/space nairs better. Every time you sh nair at him and miss you're in danger of losing your stock if he responds appropriately. When he has freedom of movement, consider the distance that he can dash back in the time that you short hop towards him. If they're playing it correctly you need to bait something (something like a defensive sh bair is almost lagless and hard to punish on reaction, but if you expect it and move in at the right time you can at least force him to shield) or trap him at the edge, before you charge in with a nair.

-use sh bair or utilt to beat his approaches. I kind of favor sh bair since you can do it out of a dashdance more easily, but sometimes situations come up where you can utilt without telegraphing it.

edit: that was all advice about falcon

 

[ShroudedOne]

I've very recently found out just how amazing Fox's uptilt is, but I have to remind myself constantly to use it for stuffing approaches sometimes, cause it's really good there. And yeah, I do have that problem of jumping in with a SH nair and falling right in front of him, where he can punish me really hard. I think I can try baiting him with empty hops or wavelands? Things like that are kind of hard to do now, so I'll have to practice.

Thanks, Winston!

 

[unknown522]

Shrouded, you need tech skill.

You're not following up on any hits, because you're either missing L-cancels, or not shining after drills.

It also never hurts to use u-tilt

 

[Palpi]

Jaiye, message me on Facebook for the how to on beating alex. (falcon).

 

[ShroudedOne]

@unknown: More tech skill. Got it. I once read a long time ago that any shine you do on a character should lead into something. I have to work on that (as well as getting those hits that will turn into shines/utilts). Back to the gamecube, then. Thanks.

@Palpi: Sure thing. He's really good at Fox. That makes it fun, but I'd like to know more about how to combat that.

 

[Winston]

Well, more accurately, any shine you know is going to hit should lead into something.

So a lot of times during shield pressure you won't get a direct follow off the shine unless you have the read

 

[Dark Hart]

Because part of being inducted into the MBR is a vision test


a vision test for frame counting

XD

*dead*

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I hope cactus doesn't get mad at me for giving away that secret

 

[unknown522]

@unknown: More tech skill. Got it. I once read a long time ago that any shine you do on a character should lead into something. I have to work on that (as well as getting those hits that will turn into shines/utilts). Back to the gamecube, then. Thanks.

yeah, kind of

 

[ShroudedOne]

Also, I hope I get to play some friendlies with you at AXS 3 (if you're still going).

 

[Silent Wolf]

yo-sveet,-howd-you-get-that-name-color??


im-gonna-try-and-drop-a-trailer-for-my-new-tech-vid-soon...=D

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The MBRBRBR just came out of the closet


edit- just so everyone knows... the MBRBRBR does exist... watch yourself

 

[unknown522]

Also, I hope I get to play some friendlies with you at AXS 3 (if you're still going).

yeah, I'm still going. I'll be arriving at Cura's place on friday afternoon/evening-ish.

im-gonna-try-and-drop-a-trailer-for-my-new-tech-vid-soon...=D

I'm actually in the process of making a combo vid trailer. Been side-tracked a lot, so I'm hoping to finish before friday

 

[Strong Badam]

How would you know if they're frame perfect? (serious question)

60 FPS recording

 

[Winston]

If I'm not good enough to waveshine ICs what should I be doing after a shine?

Do I need to try and aim my drills specifically to separate them or something?

I feel like I'll never beat Chu in my life

I know there's a skill gap but I don't think it's big enough to warrant me getting 3 stocked all the damn time

 

[hot$]

winston, how come you abandoned luigi?

 

[sanchaz]

how do people like this dude ^^^ have special colors in their name?

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

either by paying for premium smashboards (green name) or by getting 'pranked', i think it's once a month the premium members get to throw a pink name on someone of their choice

the rest are groups

 

[Jim Morrison]

You best believe I threw a pink name on Toph.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

sanchez do you want a pink name? I already infected pretty much everyone in the chicago area that has one

 

[Winston]

winston, how come you abandoned luigi?

Everyone asks me this. What's so great about playing Luigi? =\

The Falco matchup was one reason.

Lack of people to discuss Luigi strategy with was another.

But mostly I just wanted to play Fox. Fox is fun.

 

[Silent Wolf]

I'm actually in the process of making a combo vid trailer. Been side-tracked a lot, so I'm hoping to finish before friday

thats wassup. it better be good!

i just need to get a couple clips recorded then im good to go. been slackin way too much on this

 

[ShroudedOne]

Sveet, you should give me a pink name. :D

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

send me a visitor message or PM and i will