Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Fortress | Sveet]

What if they just tech it? I think its more reliable to uthrow usmash and then tech chase regrab

 

[Sinji]

I was thinking of that to. But its the psychology behind which makes it a good mixup. The opponent my be thinking about DI'ing the upsmash or the uthrow.

 

[ShroudedOne]

If I get upthrown in a Fox ditto or as Falco or something by Fox, I'm always thinking of DI'ing away and teching, just in case.

 

[Divinokage]

But you can't shine --> upsmash if the shine is CCed, I see more people do that which is needed to prevent those guaranteed fox combos lol or sometimes SDI away might work. But then I also figured that if the shine is CCed you can go for an instant Nair instead which will hit too. Stupid mix-ups. >_< lol.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I was thinking of that to. But its the psychology behind which makes it a good mixup. The opponent my be thinking about DI'ing the upsmash or the uthrow.

If you're already committed to doing nothing until they touch the floor, why wouldn't you just treat this like another tech chase and up smash if they tech stand, grab if they roll (or tech stand), and jab reset on non-tech? You have a lot of time to kind of prepare for the numerous outcomes.

I don't think it really matters which of the three main options at low percent you do (let them land & tech chase, up smash, & CG) as long as you do it correctly.

 

[omgwtfToph]

vs characters like marth/mario u gotta waveshine and then dash a bit and JC usmash

doc you can sometimes just get away with just waveshine usmash

saumus you can usually just waveshine usmash, but sometimes you gotta walk a tiny bit and then usmash out of ur walk

vs. peach/falcon/ganon/link etc, you can almost always just waveshine usmash 100% of the time and it will work

you can just walk into the usmash vs. marth

 

[Sinji]

It depends on where you use the shine before the walk up usmash or JC usmash.

Both methods work.

Foxe's shine hitbox is spaced out.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

sinji... the thing that is off center is the reflection. The red circle that appears for 1 frame is the hitbox, and it is centered.

 

[Wenbobular]

A screenshot of the red would be way more useful haha

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

ignore this

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

 

[KirbyKaze]

It's like a bubble of death.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

thats a sick .gif, and makes fox look very creepy

sveet, do you have a gamecube controller to USB adapter? and have you tried netplay before?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

no i dont have one and i havent done net play

 

[Sinji]

That looks sick.

Beastly image

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Lol thanks. I think the red sky background really helps with the tone.

 

[unknown522]

also Unknown jesus christ do you always play as good as you did in that set vs. S2J? You did some platform bull**** on Yoshi's Story that made me smile really big. :D

ehh, sometimes I play well.

vs characters like marth/mario u gotta waveshine and then dash a bit and JC usmash

doc you can sometimes just get away with just waveshine usmash

saumus you can usually just waveshine usmash, but sometimes you gotta walk a tiny bit and then usmash out of ur walk

vs. peach/falcon/ganon/link etc, you can almost always just waveshine usmash 100% of the time and it will work

pretty much, yeah

 

[KAOSTAR]

anybody got a link to unknown vs s2j? was it from the bighouse tourney?

 

[Beat!]

^ Yes and yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q-iUxG6a-k

 

[Sauce Boss]

I'm having mega trouble drill-shining I always can't short hop oos after i shine and d-ar shuffle. I would just like to know some pointers on drill-shining.

 

[Sinji]

Still waiting on the S2j vs lovage match. Did it get uploaded yet?

 

[FoxLisk]

I'm having mega trouble drill-shining I always can't short hop oos after i shine and d-ar shuffle. I would just like to know some pointers on drill-shining.

grind until your thumbs bleed

 

[Thanos828]

I'm having mega trouble drill-shining I always can't short hop oos after i shine and d-ar shuffle. I would just like to know some pointers on drill-shining.

With most of Fox's shuffl's, you'll be relying on mostly muscle memory almost all of the time. L-Cancelling the drill is different. Ignore any muscle memory, and instead actually pay attention visually to when Fox finishes the move. There are so many variables that influence how long it takes Fox to finish the move that it will be nearly impossible to identify and memorize each one.

Also, practice. Alot. SH and standard shield pressure (shine + shuffl) with Fox just takes a lot of practice. For me, it helps to visualize before hand with just a controller where my fingers will be moving and kind of making a map or guide to what I should be doing, then committing that to muscle memory.

 

[Lovage]

after years of playing, you'll find that things you once thought of as automatic or committed to your muscle memory are actually a lot more complex than people give credit for.

when starting out, you might think that once you learn how to drill shine, you pretty much know how to drill shine forever. but in reality, there can be so many nuances that affect the way you want to execute your drill shine that this simple action can actually have many layers of decision making.

some things i would consider while preparing to do a drill shine:

- exactly when i want to fastfall (there are MANY applications of using the various fastfall timings in shield pressure)
- exactly how deep i want to drill into their shield (important for certain OOS moves as well as crossing them up)
- exactly when i want to hit my L-cancel so it has the highest chance of succeeding (actually a HUGE deal, there are many things that can **** up your L-cancel such as shield size, uneven terrain, shield angling and powershielding)
-choosing if i want to shine immediately after the drill or if i want to wait a split second (for the purpose of wearing down their shield a few more frames so your next nair/drill will poke their shield, as well as baiting out ****ty OOS options where a delayed shine might hit)

after playing fox for a long time you will (usually subconsciously) develop deep complexity in simple things and master many different ways to perform the same action.

 

[rokimomi]

For the l canceling after drill on shield, has anyone completely converted to mashing z for guaranteed cancels? Is it useful enough?

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

i get grabbed far too often after a drill, i must be l cancelling it wrong @__@

if i am getting grabbed, could it be that i am l cancelling it right, but not fast falling?

 

[Lovage]

if you could get really good at that, there's no reason it wouldn't be ****. besides the fact that your finger would get tired as hell lol.

i often hit L and extra 1-2 times if i think i messed up my first L-cancel or i full hopped on accident or some ****.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Im just perfect and never make mistakes. Must be why im more technical than lovage

Spoiler

when lovage only uses one pinky

also, drill can always be shield grabbed before shine if the grabber is perfect. There is 8 frames of vulnerability (or did shine come out on the 8th?) and grab takes 7. Either way grab can happen if somehow the person is consistent at being perfect.

 

[Strong Badam]

?? no? they have to suffer shieldstun first before they can start the grab. dair has 2 frames of shieldstun on the later hits.

 

[joeplicate]

THE UNIVERSE



im gonna start playing smash / thinking about smash again a lot more

fox is too ****en cool




taking a break was sweet because it cleared my head, and helped me realize that smash = a fun diversion, and not something to kill urself over(plus that doesn't help you get better anyways)

and picking everything back up is cool, because you need to build everything back up to where you were before. i'm re-learning a lot of things i took for granted, and learning more nuanced things about the basic building blocks this time around. like oscar said, there's probably ~100 tech skill things you take for granted because you learned it a certain way and never thought of the best reasoning for doing X move, or the best application for it. how many different ways can you hit somebody? (a zillion.) when is it better to play smart instead of squeezing in an extra shield pressure kick that they'll probably roll away from anyways? (almost always!)

basically i think everybody still plays fox the wrong way
but this is something that i've thought for a long time anyways LOL

cya ROUND DOODZ

 

[Thanos828]

?? no? they have to suffer shieldstun first before they can start the grab. dair has 2 frames of shieldstun on the later hits.

Is that in addition to or including the 1 frame between each hit of the dair?

 

[Silent Wolf]

i get grabbed far too often after a drill, i must be l cancelling it wrong @__@

if i am getting grabbed, could it be that i am l cancelling it right, but not fast falling?

that was happening to me for a while when id try drill utilt. like lovage was saying, i had gotten used to certain muscle memory (basically the timing i needed in order to connect dair -> shine most of the time) and had forgotten just how fast i could do stuff out of dair if L canceled.

so try doing stuff after it faster maybe?

 

[Strong Badam]

Is that in addition to or including the 1 frame between each hit of the dair?

assuming you land at some point during these kicks they'll be in shieldstun for at least 1 of your landlag frames.

 

[lanabo]

Im just perfect and never make mistakes. Must be why im more technical than lovage

Spoiler

when lovage only uses one pinky

also, drill can always be shield grabbed before shine if the grabber is perfect. There is 8 frames of vulnerability (or did shine come out on the 8th?) and grab takes 7. Either way grab can happen if somehow the person is consistent at being perfect.

If the enemy is in shield and mashes grab while you're dairing, will it buffer and come out before the soonest possible shine? Just wondering whether or not this would be a viable method to do a 'perfect' shield grab.

 

[Thanos828]

If the enemy is in shield and mashes grab while you're dairing, will it buffer and come out before the soonest possible shine? Just wondering whether or not this would be a viable method to do a 'perfect' shield grab.

Wouldn't that just make you grab during the move and get hit instead of shielding it?

 

[Palpi]

How do other foxes feel about fighting marth on FD? I feel like FD is my best stage, but I also understand his ability to chain grab and combo on that stage, but because it is really open, I don't think it is that bad.

 

[silentSWAG]

i dont like fd vs marth. simply because i dont want to get above him because marth ***** fox when hes above marth. and the platforms help me get under him so i can start usmashing him and uthrow - uair and stuff

 

[Thanos828]

It's all up to not getting grabbed. Marth can combo Fox sufficiently well with platforms too, so its really all up to the Fox to avoid getting grabbed.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

i just don't see the point in fighting marth on fd. you can ban it and still have 4 other levels which are good stages in the MU.

i get that the plats on yoshis are small but they are definitely better than not having a tech option and just continue to get combod instead.


edit-also what is even a benefit for fox on this stage, in this MU?

 

[Strong Badam]

^until finals sets where no one can ban

Sinji lanabo: you can't buffer grabs in any way