Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[lanabo]

Thanks. Thought so.

Damn I am being mistaken for Sinji..

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

LOL

must be the avatar or something

 

[Thanos828]

i just don't see the point in fighting marth on fd. you can ban it and still have 4 other levels which are good stages in the MU.

i get that the plats on yoshis are small but they are definitely better than not having a tech option and just continue to get combod instead.


edit-also what is even a benefit for fox on this stage, in this MU?

I guess it's easier to U-throw u-air without platforms. Really not worth it in the long run but it's something.

 

[Silent Wolf]

^until finals sets where no one can ban

Sinji: you can't buffer grabs in any way

does anyone else think that part of the potential new ruleset is the dumbest **** ever?

edit: platforms def make foxes uthrow a lot more valuable. fd is just not worth it

 

[Winston]

The top platform on Yoshi's is super low so full jump uair from below raaapes when they have to land on it

FoD is even better for this but sometimes the platforms confuse the **** out of me so **** that stage

(yeah I'll learn it... eventually... >_> I don't ban it but I never pick it)

does anyone else think that part of the potential new ruleset is the dumbest **** ever?

why do we necessarily need bans?

yea, it really sucks for us vs. Marth, but there's nothing unfair about it. It's just a little unbalanced in the matchup. Balance isn't their goal, though.

Plus most people who don't main space animals have no sympathy for us

 

[Sinji]

i dont like fd vs marth. simply because i dont want to get above him because marth ***** fox when hes above marth. and the platforms help me get under him so i can start usmashing him and uthrow - uair and stuff

You have to full hop dair first then >waveshine>uthrow>uair. drill is risky because they can SDI it. But its still reliable. You can also nair in low percent's.

I substitute uthrow with dtilt after the waveshine sometimes (depends on the spacing)

^until finals sets where no one can ban

Sinji: you can't buffer grabs in any way

lol. dude,

Thanks. Thought so.

Damn I am being mistaken for Sinji..

It must be the green fox avatar.

It represents Jamaica ya know.

Green Jacket- flag
yellow under shirt- flag
black pants- flag
red boots- Coat of arms.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

who's gonna just stand there and get full hop daired?

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

what do i do against IC'S, nana screws up my lcancels and waveshine seem to work only part of the time

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

what do i do against IC'S, nana screws up my lcancels and waveshine seem to work only part of the time

shine inbetween them then jump away incase they shield it, once they are seperated, it's like getting 2v1d with one of them being a lvl 1 cpu.

definitely over-simplifying but its a big part of it

 

[Thanos828]

The top platform on Yoshi's is super low so full jump uair from below raaapes when they have to land on it

FoD is even better for this but sometimes the platforms confuse the **** out of me so **** that stage

(yeah I'll learn it... eventually... >_> I don't ban it but I never pick it)



why do we necessarily need bans?

yea, it really sucks for us vs. Marth, but there's nothing unfair about it. It's just a little unbalanced in the matchup. Balance isn't their goal, though.

Plus most people who don't main space animals have no sympathy for us

Pretty much everyone who doesn't main spacies hate spacies. Even spacies hate spacies.

 

[Druggedfox]

How do other foxes feel about fighting marth on FD? I feel like FD is my best stage, but I also understand his ability to chain grab and combo on that stage, but because it is really open, I don't think it is that bad.

I just switch to sheik on FD >_>

 

[ShroudedOne]

There are times when I feel like FD is horrible. But part of that is honestly M2K's fault. (Fox still gets CG'd/comboed here hard, I know, but you all know we have visions of M2K ****** Foxes here). I think that platforms are also a really big part of Fox's game, just for his mobility alone (not even considering how he kinda ***** Marth with them), and I don't think that FD offers anything that the platformed stages don't, to be honest. Even if you can't u-throw > uair because of a platform, can't you up throw > tech chase with a grab or upsmash? Or even just uthrow on the platform and wait? Marth is horribly limited when when Fox is below him, so...

 

[Thanos828]

I commonly u-throw and then drill onto the platform. Then waveshine into something, or shuffl an u-air or something. In my experience people use get-up attacks a lot when they're on platforms like the ones on YS.

 

[Sinji]

I commonly u-throw and then drill onto the platform. Then waveshine into something, or shuffl an u-air or something. In my experience people use get-up attacks a lot when they're on platforms like the ones on YS.

that is true for the most part. I agree with you when you said drill into the platform. It deals with a lot of percentage and it is very under used.

 

[FoxLisk]

If I notice a marth can't chain grab then I go FD fox. less chaingrabs that stage ***** for fox. you win the DD game and there is just nothing else to do there. and its wide.

the rest of the time i avoid it and play falco who i main and ban fd 8-)

 

[Metal Reeper]

Palpi is so good on FD....It's like your not even playing against a Fox.

 

[PK Webb]

If the marths name isnt m2k or niko I prefer fd over most stages

 

[Druggedfox]

M2k... or niko? I would hope that the majority of competent marth players nowadays can be scary if they hit you on FD. Even if you like the stage (it's my favorite stage with any character), the risks just straight up aren't worth the rewards. You might as well go to stadium, which is like... the same thing, with a lower ceiling, and no chaingrabs.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

@t webb

any 'decent' marth should body you there. it's quite easy.

it also seems clear you think FD is worse if your playing against a competent player, which is what the discussion i assume is about. i dont care about some ****ty marth on fd :|

 

[Beat!]

Why would you care about some ****ty *anything* on *any stage*? XD

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Its very important to understand the game outside of the tip top level.

If I notice a marth can't chain grab then I go FD fox. less chaingrabs that stage ***** for fox. you win the DD game and there is just nothing else to do there. and its wide.

This is a very good observation! Finding weaknesses in your opponent and understanding what that means for your strategy is a huge part of improving. There is no opponent who has no weakness, although the weaknesses become more subtle as the tier of player increases.

 

[Silent Wolf]

some-new-matches

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=314021

 

[Beat!]

Its very important to understand the game outside of the tip top level.

That wasn't really what I meant when I posted #20621.

I definitely agree, though.

 

[JPOBS]

i definitely agree with the thing about understanding the game outside of tip top level.

one of the biggest things that bugs me about any discussion that happens on this forum is that we always assume the opponent is some super fusion version of mango and m2k and will always do the perfect thing

edit: Holy balls this is one of the craziest shield pressure strings I've ever seen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9jrFHpYIA0#t=6m15s

Silent wolf, did you do that shine grab on reaction out of that double shine after seeing him shield di away? o_0

 

[Druggedfox]

He probably did, there was a bit of a pause between the second shine and the grab.

Double shine grab isn't that hard >_> On that note though, people should shine grab significantly more often with fox.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I agree. More shine grab. It ***** for Falco, so why not for Fox too, who gets more out of it?

 

[JPOBS]

double shine grab may not be "that hard", but honestly, no one ever does it so im still impressed.

plus, double shining with the intention of shinegrabbing is one thing,
but doublt shining, and then shine grabbing on reaction to your opponent shield DI is a whole new level of "whoa"

 

[Silent Wolf]

i didnt react with it, I planned on doing a double shine grab cuz i knew he was gonna shield cuz he paused it. also hes good with up-b out of shield so i did 2 shines just in case for that reason. i dont think he would have up-b' me tho since he paused it.

 

[Strong Badam]

does anyone else think that part of the potential new ruleset is the dumbest **** ever?

i can see why it's stupid from your perspective (fox main, falco/fox get chaingrabbed by everyone, still two best chars in game), however the reasoning for it isn't to screw over spacie mains, but rather to prevent a set being forced to the same stage twice. with only 6 legal stages, if both players get a stage ban then there's only 4 left, and whaddya know, finals sets are best of 5.

btw that shield pressure was very impressive. my shield pressure is **** whenever I use spacies. ;~;

 

[Sinji]

So is double shine grab a guaranteed shield pressure? Iv'e never seen anyone get out of it and the required frames it takes to spot dodge or roll is slim.

 

[Thanos828]

So since I originally mained Falco, I started playing with him the other day after about a month or so of playing Fox.

It was the most awkward change I've ever felt.

 

[JPOBS]

i didnt react with it, I planned on doing a double shine grab cuz i knew he was gonna shield cuz he paused it. also hes good with up-b out of shield so i did 2 shines just in case for that reason. i dont think he would have up-b' me tho since he paused it.

word is bond.

 

[PK Webb]

Fd is my personal preference. I punish very hard there and no tristate has really talented marths there is hbk hazz teczero im jus weird i like fd

 

[FoxLisk]

ive been saying for years that GFs should be a tour of the five neutrals. so im all for the no-bans rule.

 

[unknown522]

Currently chilling with Quebec.

No Vwins though

 

[Doser]

Hey can someone tell me or point me to a post where it explains the speed difference (if there is one) between turning around in shine and then wave dashing, or just doing a waveshine backwards and then turning around?

Also do you guys have any tips on shine-nairing? Should I be getting a solid hit with the nair, because right now when I do get a hit it's a pretty weak one. I'm not sure if it's because I should be holding the control stick so I get more horizontal movement or if I'm not getting out of shine fast enough.

 

[Sauce Boss]

I'm teaming with a samus at a soon-to-come tournament. Any advice?

 

[Thanos828]

What are the characters that Fox can reach in a waveshine with just the wavedash, and which characters does Fox have to do a bit more of a walk to get the JC grab or usmash or whatever?

 

[Doser]

The characters that you only need to wavedash would be: Link, Samus, C. Falcon, Peach, Sheik, Zelda, Bowser, Ganondorf, Dr. Mario (he's pretty hard to waveshine without walking at least for me though), Mario, Yoshi, Bowser, Donkey Kong.

You will probably have to walk with Marth, and I'm not sure if it's a true combo on Ice Climbers but you may be able to get away with it sometimes.

 

[FoxLisk]

on the ones that are close it also can depend on your spacing. like if youre mostly inside vs just clipping them with the shine you have half a body length difference, which is non-negligible. for me at least, against doc/mario i try to pay attention to that because i can get waveshine usmash if im close and miss it sometimes if im far.