Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[RaynEX]

Fox's DD is the ultimate anti-zoning tool. Counter badly placed moves with approaches and don't let up the pressure.

Waaaaaasssup Fox boards


edit: GGs yesterday Ryan

 

[unknown522]

meh, they were ok.

those friendlies before were way better. So much styling back and forth.

Also, I'm taking your HORI box home so you better pick it up soon.

 

[Strong Badam]

I love dashdancing....

 

[Pengie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EyKFe9jKgQ&feature=feedu

What's up Fox Boards? Here's a video from a tournament yesterday and I'd appreciate any advice on any holes that you guys can find in the matches!

 

[Palpi]

I "skimmed" over the matches haha, im busy!!! You were definitely the better player, but something I saw were, you added in some unnecessary shines when you should have been doing something more productive, like tech chasing on reaction.

Also, when someone spaces an aerial, in this case a bair, on your shield when you are on a platform, just wave dash oos. Most players roll, like you did, but the wave dash oos is infinitely better.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

what are foxes best and worst zones?

+ tips on zoning with fox?

Zones are very relative, but i'll try to explain some basic ones.

Top platform is basically the safest place on any stage with one, but it doesn't offer any real positional advantage on the stage since you basically have no stage presence.

One of the most aggressive yet safe areas is positioned on a middle platform while the opponent is not directly below you in neutral position. This basically leaves you in a position where you are threatening more than half the stage while also basically unreachable without a solid read on your movements. There is obviously limitations to this since you can only attack so far on the stage, though there are enough mixups from this position to make it very viable.

Dash dancing under a platform is also a very safe position because you can't be attacked from above unless you are baited forward. Obviously makes you relatively safe from frontal attacks too although your space can be taken if you don't stand your ground, and some characters can still overshoot and catch your dash back if they predict it.

Generally, I really like either controlling the center of the stage with bairs/nairs and/or using the middle platforms to leave both aggressive and defensive options available.

 

[unknown522]

yo, raynex and I had some pretty sex team saves in WFs yesterday.

he was mostly fox, and I was either falcon or sheik.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Ryan why does my Fox suck so much? D:

 

[unknown522]

man, don't bring this crap into the fox boards.

 

[Sinji]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EyKFe9jKgQ&feature=feedu

What's up Fox Boards? Here's a video from a tournament yesterday and I'd appreciate any advice on any holes that you guys can find in the matches!

Good stuff. I might be going up their later on this summer. If i do, i may be able to face you guys at a tourney.

 

[Pengie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqccO77QWVw&feature=feedu
Back again Fox Boards! Same as last time; any help/advice would be greatly appreciated! I've also taken some little mental notes and want tto see if I'm on the right track, so any feed back is welcomed =D

 

[Brookman]

:35 seconds in, and all that has come to mind is more down tilt. The sheik player looks kinda nooby too.

:55 Only wavedash back if you actually expect the player to dash attack/roll into you. Otherwise you give up the spacing you need to properly punish that jump

1:20 again, more down tilt.

1:43 space away from his grab and punish accordingly. Sheik has pretty solid grab range tho.

1:44 your dash dance earns you a roll but you dont really do anything with it. ..omg a down tilt!

This sheik player doesnt really know what CC is, huh??

2:19 I'm sure you've seen this tons and tons of times but attack from the platform like that, especially vs. a character with sheik's ftilt is generally not the best idea. It's not absolutely pointless but its also not . . . .its kinda predictable and easy to punish, lets leave it at that. Use this trick at your own risk.

 

[SwiftBass]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqccO77QWVw&feature=feedu
Back again Fox Boards! Same as last time; any help/advice would be greatly appreciated! I've also taken some little mental notes and want tto see if I'm on the right track, so any feed back is welcomed =D

simple stuff.

-MUST DI forward filt. sometimes it tricky but alot of the time he telegraphed it.
-your shine follow-ups were poor. you need to be able to waveshine and reverse waveshine and get a grab or upsmash EVERY SINGLE TIME(its mostly reaction). These kind of plays change the game. I play both sides of that matcup. a fox that gets you with a grab or upsmash EVERY SHINE is demoralizing.
-Dash Dance a bit tighter. Shiek really cant play the DD game with fox so like you can space her pretty well, careful tho shieks like to try to keep fox honest with overshooting dash attack, but with that you plan to shield and upsmash out of shield(see fox has answers to everything)

 

[Sinji]

simple stuff.

-MUST DI forward filt. sometimes it tricky but alot of the time he telegraphed it.
-your shine follow-ups were poor. you need to be able to waveshine and reverse waveshine and get a grab or upsmash EVERY SINGLE TIME(its mostly reaction). These kind of plays change the game. I play both sides of that matcup. a fox that gets you with a grab or upsmash EVERY SHINE is demoralizing.
-Dash Dance a bit tighter. Shiek really cant play the DD game with fox so like you can space her pretty well, careful tho shieks like to try to keep fox honest with overshooting dash attack, but with that you plan to shield and upsmash out of shield(see fox has answers to everything)

Finally. some advice i can actually read. good stuff.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Does down tilt do that much against Sheik? Brookman, you seem to be suggesting it a lot.

 

[KirbyKaze]

i don't like it that much vs her

i think it's just food for her movement game, what with how slow it is

the bulk of her game vs a grounded fox should mostly be sh aerials and grab anyway which d-tilt sucks against

it also forces you to stop dash dancing and use slower, laggier movement (more dash cancels, more wd, more stationary play in general), which is something that greatly pleases sheik because then you're not constantly shifting position and challenging her zones with your crazy antics

but if they spam f-tilt or are really dumb then sure go nuts

 

[Brookman]

KK I thought your fox sucked anyway??

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm speaking from a Sheik POV. I get really happy when Fox tries to do D-tilt like it's a real strategy. It's kind of cute as a mixup, but Fox's strengths lie more in his ability to challenge zones and troll people with his crazy movement game; D-tilt clashes with this.

 

[unknown522]

d-tilt is bad, espcially vs high range character. I'm not joking.

 

[iamthemicrowave]

i think d-tilt is good because of its long range. it can land a tech chase when you cant reach them in time otherwise, and it has good followups

 

[unknown522]

tech chase?

they're talking about fighting sheik

 

[Sinji]

I use D-tilit sparingly against sheik on Fd. Normally when she's DD near to the ledge.

 

[iamthemicrowave]

oh yeah i guess i was thinking in terms of spacies/falcon only. i can see it being bad against her. i think its fox farthest reaching standing move tho

 

[unknown522]

the range is good.

I only use it if the opponent is coming down from the air but they're not in range for any other move, or if I hit a n-air at certain percents, especially if it'll make them fly off the stage.

 

[iamthemicrowave]

i like when colbol uses it to egeguard spacies side bs. such a unique fox, that one

 

[Sinji]

Dtilt is a good mix up against Iceys during shield pressure. nair>shine pressure till the shield gets low then Dtilt their feet.

 

[iamthemicrowave]

theres this one video where lunin does jab dtilt jab dtilt jab dtilt as this crazy fast shield pressure...and it works. wish i could find the link

 

[Cyrain]

I don't know what version of Melee you've been playing in bizarro world, but jab dtilt jab dtilt is not crazy fast shield pressure. o_O

 

[KAOSTAR]

no, but its spaces prefectly. doing something like late nair jab fade away shine-nair jab dtilt. if u happen to be on the back side dtilt can shield poke full shields.
so its not crazy fast, but if you know your opponent will try to action oos you may be able to catch em slippin.

but don't be trying it vs marth or sheik, grabs are too big.

 

[unknown522]

if you jab at any given point on a shield vs any character, it's unsafe.

You can always get grabbed as fox.

 

[KAOSTAR]

yea, but you have to punch while they are grabbing, its really hard to grab somebody's jab on reaction. at least thats how I feel about it....plus from the back they can't grab you.

 

[Brookman]

Kaos, that post is wrong in so many ways.

 

[Sinji]

Fox isn't invincible, jab a shield and you get grab.

Something that troubles me:

I tend to jab popo iceys while they are in the hit stun in the air after a nair train (nana is dead before this).

whats the best follow up around 45% after the jab?

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

How do I team with Ice Climbers?

 

[Brookman]

shine opposing characters that don't fall down into the IC's grab and protect while they wobble ;]

 

[SuperMatt]

what exactly is guaranteed following a successful down air (assuming they dont smash DI out of it)???

Shine: YES
Grab: ???? (YES against non spacies?)
Down smash: ????
Jab: ????
Jump, aerial: ????
Up-tilt: ????
Up-B: ????

im talking frame data here

 

[chillindude829]

i think that depends on how many hits of the down air u get

i highly doubt jump -> aerial or upb are ever guaranteed out of drill, but i love using jump aerial as a mixup, not sure why u even mentioned upb though

this is just my thoughts i dont know any frames

 

[JPOBS]

i think Uptilt, Upsmash, Downsmash, shine and grab all combo out of dair assuming they don't sdi it and you are frame tight with your l-cancel and input

probably Ftilt too but why the fawk would u do that.

 

[KirbyKaze]

D-smash no (iirc).

Grab, U-tilt, U-smash, Nair, Bair. But the last two are gimmicky so don't. I also think this varies from character to character.

 

[Divinokage]

Wtf drill to upsmash does not combo lol. This isnt brawl. You always have time to shield before the upsmash comes out.