Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[FoxLisk]

Wtf drill to upsmash does not combo lol. This isnt brawl. You always have time to shield before the upsmash comes out.

sure does. you know usmash comes out the same frame as grab, right? so if you disbelieve one you gotta disbelieve the other.

 

[Palpi]

Upsmash comes 1 frame later than grab I thought. I recall silent wolf saying, as long as you get a certain hit of the dair it will combo.

 

[Druggedfox]

They should both be 7 frames

 

[Deleted member]

grab is 7

upsmash is 6

 

[Brookman]

I thought upsmash was 3 frames??

 

[Druggedfox]

^True, because you have to subtract the 4 frames of landing lag

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

U guys are so funny lol

grab and usmash both come out frame 7. The reason you might think usmash comes out frame 8 is because of the jump cancel, which means a running usmash is 8 frames (but still the same frames as a JC grab).

[I was going to quote magus here, but my PM box must have gotten purged last fall somehow, so i no longer have his wise words; instead i will paraphrase]

Drill to usmash does work occasionally. It depends on a few factors, mostly weight of the character and when the last hitbox hit. I'm not really sure how weight factors in, though i assume it will modify the hitstun by a frame or two. The real tricky thing is hitting with the hitbox and then the next frame landing. If you didn't know already, fox's drill works as a series of hitboxes that have small gaps in between (Hit: 5-6, 8-9, 11-12, 14-15, 17-18, 20-21, 23-24). By hitting with a hitbox and then immediately landing you maximize frame advantage.

The reason this issue doesn't come up as much for drill->grab is because of how shields and dodges work. For a buffered spot dodge, there is an additional 2 frames before you are invincible and for a buffered roll an additional 4 frames. This gives a bit of room for error when grabbing, while if you usmashed in that case it would simply hit the shield.

 

[Sinji]

grab takes 7-9 frames.

8-9 if its running grab.

7 if its Jc grab

LMAO. u guys crack me ^

 

[KirbyKaze]

Wtf drill to upsmash does not combo lol. This isnt brawl. You always have time to shield before the upsmash comes out.

1) Don't argue with me. I mean you, specifically.

2) Yes it does on some characters, you don't know what you're talking about.

3) This is, in fact, Melee.

edit:


Sveet, because Fox's SH FF is 15 frames (done perfectly), the way I do it is I SH FF Dair and if I connect 4 hits then I usually go for the U-smash. Fox's 4rth Dair hit comes out on 14, and I FF pretty quickly, so it usually works out. I think it's only really worth attempting on Puff, though. I guess GnW and Kirby too, but nobody plays them.

If they SDI away then I usually do something else.

 

[Palpi]

Yeah, I guess I was thinking of a upsmash oos and a shield grab.

 

[Winston]

Does anyone have any character specific/situational knowledge about short hopping over getup attacks as Fox? Can fox do this vs. anybody? Jumping backwards, jumping over them, anything?

 

[Pengie]

Does anyone have any character specific/situational knowledge about short hopping over getup attacks as Fox? Can fox do this vs. anybody? Jumping backwards, jumping over them, anything?

I remember messing around with this a while back and seeing that you can do it to most characters get up attacks when they are lying on their stomachs. If they are lying on their backs, then their getup attacks are to high to jump over, or at least in most cases. If I remember correctly, the best way to do it was to short hop backwards as they do their get up attacks.

 

[Palpi]

SH back to wave land forward? Can't you just shield DI in/wave dash oos most of them?

 

[Pengie]

I just messed around with this for a bit and as a general rule you can't do it SH over the attack if they are lying on their backs because they come out too high. If thy're on their backs you can jump over them most of the time, but you have to react to the attack pretty quickly. Overall, it seems impractical when you could just crouch cancel the attack into a grab/Forward Smash/Up Smash.

 

[Sinji]

Yall hype for genesis 2. Hope a fox player wins.

 

[Winston]

Hmm, well I do use crouch cancel/shield/dd back as a default, I'm just looking for more options. Ideally, if you are able to do things like dash at them -> jump over the getup attack then it lets you cover more options, such as if they roll instead of getup attacking. Afaik, crouching lets them roll towards you, and shielding requires you to predict their roll.

I was actually thinking about this in Falcon context first but I figured I'd ask here since I main fox and it could be applicable. >__>

 

[unknown522]

yea, but you have to punch while they are grabbing, its really hard to grab somebody's jab on reaction. at least thats how I feel about it....plus from the back they can't grab you.

you can easily react once it taps your shield.

I dunno what you're talking about.

Wtf drill to upsmash does not combo lol. This isnt brawl. You always have time to shield before the upsmash comes out.

it can combo. The last hit of the drill has to hit the opponent's feet, so that they have a different animation during hitstun (or if they're jiggs, then it doesn't matter). It's also harder to make it work on heavier characters, like bowser, ganon, falcon, DK

 

[chillindude829]

D-smash no (iirc).

Grab, U-tilt, U-smash, Nair, Bair. But the last two are gimmicky so don't. I also think this varies from character to character.

do nair and bair really ever combo after a drill? doesnt short hop take like 6 frames to start and then the move would take 4 frames to activate? i would think 10 frames is too long for it to combo

 

[Brookman]

drill > aerial won't add a number to the combo meter but you can definitely catch people off guard with crazy **** out of drill. Unless they are smash DI'ing it and intently waiting for a frame advantage to **** you up.

 

[Strong Badam]

drill to sh drill combos on pichu, possibly jiggs. thats like 7 or 8 frames so bite me.

jumpsquat is 3 frames chillin, airborne frame 4.

 

[Dark Hart]

Drill to upsmash is also gimicky since iirc only the first 3 hits if the drill can hit before landing in order for it to connect as a legit combo, the same may be true for uptilt but iunno

Also I've finally gotten a friend to upload a couple matches and I was hoping to maybe get a critique or some general tips:

Match 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-iJpUBh7yg
Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCCXX2RFm7Y

Thanks in advance

 

[unknown522]

do nair and bair really ever combo after a drill? doesnt short hop take like 6 frames to start and then the move would take 4 frames to activate? i would think 10 frames is too long for it to combo

yeah it combos. You need to be frame-perfect.

drill to sh drill combos on pichu, possibly jiggs. thats like 7 or 8 frames so bite me.

jumpsquat is 3 frames chillin, airborne frame 4.

you can combo them on fox/falco, and some other characters as well.








Also, fox boards, check this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CwzkegaIMs

I'm gonna try this on IB the next time I see him, cuz I think that you can still link/kill even with DI.

 

[KirbyKaze]

As long as the Fair > U-tilt connects then the rest should work in spite of DI (might be a lil' different).

Looks like you could probably grab and throw combo after the Fair but U-tilt is the better combo starter anyway.

Fair is a cool move. I want to explore it more in combos. It seems to tack on more useful stun / trajectory than Nair in a lot of cases.

 

[JPOBS]

D-smash no (iirc).

Grab, U-tilt, U-smash, Nair, Bair. But the last two are gimmicky so don't. I also think this varies from character to character.

isn't downsmash like 6 frames? Thats why i assumed it works.

Wtf drill to upsmash does not combo lol. This isnt brawl. You always have time to shield before the upsmash comes out.

Get out of mah fox boards.

 

[KirbyKaze]

son of a bitch it is 6 frames

yeah it should work then

 

[FoxLisk]

Drill to upsmash is also gimicky since iirc only the first 3 hits if the drill can hit before landing in order for it to connect as a legit combo, the same may be true for uptilt but iunno

Also I've finally gotten a friend to upload a couple matches and I was hoping to maybe get a critique or some general tips:

Match 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-iJpUBh7yg
Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCCXX2RFm7Y

Thanks in advance

sureh ere i'll have the whole conversation for you:

me: you should crouch cancel more, pay more attention to what your opponent is doing, etc etc

you: whatever this was four months ago and friendlies im obviously WAY better now and TOTALLY above criticism for those things

me: okay then dont post them, its dumb to ask for advice on things you dont really want advice on

you: you're an *******, foxlisk

 

[Druggedfox]

As long as the Fair > U-tilt connects then the rest should work in spite of DI (might be a lil' different).

Looks like you could probably grab and throw combo after the Fair but U-tilt is the better combo starter anyway.

Fair is a cool move. I want to explore it more in combos. It seems to tack on more useful stun / trajectory than Nair in a lot of cases.

Couldn't the uptilt be DI'd far too one direction, then as you go up for the first uair, they could DI the complete opposite direction? I feel like you couldn't get there with a second uair in time. Either that, or maybe DI the uptilt offstage or something similar. Cool combo regardless

 

[KirbyKaze]

Well, I added the note "(might be a lil' different)" because I considered that they could DI the U-tilt away to avoid the two Uairs. But you could also respond to that by Bairing or something; if they DI inwards (counters the dual Uairs) you get to link Bair to something. If they neutral DI, you can probably follow. If they DI away, they're further offstage, which is dandy.

I'm more interested in how likely the Fair will link to U-tilt, tbh. Stuff after U-tilt is usually good.

 

[Dark Hart]

sureh ere i'll have the whole conversation for you:

me: you should crouch cancel more, pay more attention to what your opponent is doing, etc etc

you: whatever this was four months ago and friendlies im obviously WAY better now and TOTALLY above criticism for those things

me: okay then dont post them, its dumb to ask for advice on things you dont really want advice on

you: you're an *******, foxlisk

... I feel like that was seriously uncalled for...

... Does anyone other than foxlisk wanna help me out? I really don't care that these were recorded back in March, since I'm really no better now than I was then, plus I was playing well that day; and I was under the impression that getting critiqued with videos of me happy with how I was playing would yield the best results.

Do I need to crouch cancel more? If so, where? What situations?
Do I need to pay attention to my opponent more? If so, what situations can I apply this ability more?

 

[Druggedfox]

Okay i wasn't sure if you were implying there was some alternative that led directly to death, or just good things would happen.

Can someone like... list all the (notable) fox mains going to genesis??

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Lucky not Jman

Those are the notable foxes right?

I heard lovage and alex19 are there

 

[KirbyKaze]

Okay i wasn't sure if you were implying there was some alternative that led directly to death, or just good things would happen.

Nah, Fox doesn't have many true death combos or semi-guaranteed death setups like Sheik, Marth, Falcon, etc.

He's just a cute fuzzy-wuzzy who's really good at initiating and anti-zoning.

My bad on being unclear, though.

 

[JPOBS]

son of a bitch it is 6 frames

yeah it should work then

Kirbykaze: 234859

JPOBS: 1

I'm on the board now suckas. someone get me into the back room.

 

[unknown522]

^ Tristan, I love you! Too funny man.

Can someone like... list all the (notable) fox mains going to genesis??

Lucky, Lovage, SW, Cyrain, uhhhh.....

 

[Winston]

He's just a cute fuzzy-wuzzy who's really good at initiating and anti-zoning.

no he loses to everybody cause he has no range

 

[Palpi]

lol, unknown, he tried fairing you at you on the ledge so much and got ***** for it

 

[unknown522]

censorship

 

[Palpi]

its not even that...you're invincible and he just goes right into your shine spike like 3 times lol

 

[unknown522]

post count

 

[Palpi]

I was expecting the matches to be closer. "The guy who trains with IB" lol