Please critique me
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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
I like ur fox a lot...u seem to have a good grasp on his techs...but against marth u did most of the approaching and I no a few narths last would had noticed that and would have started capitalizing...against a marth play campy/gay....laser them to a approach space it then when they miss their nair/fair/grab u grab up throw uair....I think all u need to learn is match ups probably but very solid fox
joeplicate
Smash Master
manuel your fox is beast, pretty sure you ****ed up kage who beat mango which makes your fox the best in the world
that's my critique
that's my critique
iamthemicrowave
Smash Master
u missed an l cancel at 2:13 and then side b'd off the stage after.Please critique me
my ***** replicate wat up!! been workin on that hack son?
Your fox *****.Please critique me
Its really smart and patient.
One thing you did that I don't see that often is running shine though. Idk if you want to use it in that match up, you can probably get a grab in safer ways.
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
I think it's just preference. I would vote pick one button for shielding and L-cancelling and use the other to wavedash. That way you can wavedash out of shield easily, and if you need to land in a shield quickly you don't fumble around using both fingers. Using the WD button for l-cancelling isn't bad either, though, I just prefer it the first way.
L or r they both do the same thing...play however u feel comfortable....question is approaching with a shine a decent approach??I see eggm do it a lot but I can never space it right.....another thing after I drill my shine doesn't hit for sum odd reason, it like the drill will connect, I hit the lcancel, I shine, I miss, I get grabbed, its super effective. and even happens with nairs(rarely) too
TresChikon
Smash Lord
Approaching with shine?
I wouldn't recommend it, shine on its own sucks, the range is not that awesome. Just use your other 1409287 broken moves.
Drill makes certain characters flinch in a certain way that it lets them evade the follow-up shine. It also gets worse if they tend to SDI the drill away. To combat this, you should watch their DI and end your drill closer in that direction. You can also just jab, up-tilt or grab after your drills since they have better range than the shine.
I wouldn't recommend it, shine on its own sucks, the range is not that awesome. Just use your other 1409287 broken moves.
Drill makes certain characters flinch in a certain way that it lets them evade the follow-up shine. It also gets worse if they tend to SDI the drill away. To combat this, you should watch their DI and end your drill closer in that direction. You can also just jab, up-tilt or grab after your drills since they have better range than the shine.
Tomacawk
Smash Master
shine is one of fox's best approaches. you shouldn't shine approach people who shffl an aerial at your approach, but the majority of time people will run away from you as you run towards them. shine is excellent for this situation because it hits in one frame, you're able to wavedash out of it to retain your safety by going backwards or by coming with going forwards
hypothetical-you're dd camping with a marf. you run into his area and whiff a nair, and you get grabbed. he dthrows you, runs off the ledge and gimps your stock. now if you had gone in with a shine, let's say worse case scenario. it misses and you wd backwards. marf whiffs his grab on your now displaced location and you get a free grab yourself
another hypothetical-your back is to the ledge and you don't have much room to maneuver. marth is staring you down and he fullhops with a fair just out of your range, but not close enough to hit you. acknowledging that he is fastfalling with another fair, you run in just after the 2nd fair. rather than risking a grab and having him buffer out or grab you, you shine approach, as this 1 frame move will beat whatever he chose to do (except possibly utilt, that depends on your speed)
shine isn't the end all go to approach move but it is by no means a bad approach. use it when it can be used
around :16 after you displayed some legit tech skill you whiffed an easy edgehog. if you're going to explode techskill on people like that, you need to be able to hold your composure and switch back into smart mode just as fast as you went into tech mode.
in general you seem to be unsure of what to do, so you fill this empty time with techskill display. this is cool and all but you could have been positioning yourself better when marth was trying to recover or you could have been lasering him instead
also that marth was just spamming full hop double fairs/shffl nairs right in front of you. rather than cutting through the fullhop fairs with a fullhop nair or shine approaching or just lasering him while he's spamming moves
also you should mix up the distance on your dash dancing. good players will approach past you and grab you if you're dashing predictably like that. most notably a marth can easily dash attack just behind where you're dancing by running at you as you're closest to them during your dd, and it'll catch you ev ery time if you continue your dd'ing trend
your drillshines are cool but you should really be taking the grab. he can sdi out of the drill and cause your shine to whiff, not to mention you decided to try another drill near the ledge, which you not only failed but wouldn't of had big payoff anyway, whereas a grab could have been a bair or uair with the opportunity of a followup as he tries to recover with a fox dancing under him where he has no priority
after your jab usmash at the end, rather than putting your back to the ledge on/under the platform and bair camping his recovery, you just pranced around and gave him a free ledge grab again. this is another point where showing off cost you crucial positioning. after seeing your last ledgeguard attempt I'm pretty sure you're just douching around because it's friendlies, but you should really try to focus more on making your movements/choices maximize benefit, rather than just doing what you think of first. your fox is fun to watch but I think it needs more refining and comes off as sort of "choppy" due to awkward decisions and sub-optimal followups
here is an up to date matchup guide composed by CunningKistune, the greatest fox player who doesn't actually play the game ever
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=35050
game 1 vs puff-you should probably stop trying to shield grab puff. it will never work against any average or better puff. also be careful doublejump camping like that at the ledge, you'll lose your stock realll quick if you get baired off without a jump. also your uthrow uair at the beginning was too slow, puff could have actually rested, jumped, or airdodged out of that.
running charged usmash as a guess against puff is a really bad idea. you can't really do much guess work in this matchup because a missed guess means you get rested or put in a ledge guarding situation. it's best to never commit with anything laggy like that and stick to bairs, lasers, nairs, and grabs. this puff was also shield grabbing you a lot. if they keep trying to do that you should bait it by landing with a spaced aerial out of grab range or landing just behind them, or even landing with no aerial at all outside of grab range and just sitting next to them in their shield (be careful though, puff can nair / fair you oos pretty easily if they catch on). at 2:00 when you hit your nair, you should have taken a uair instead of a bair. that was a crucial chance to end puff's stock early.
2:13, as I was saying earlier, this puff was nearly spamming shield grab. you were nowhere near her and she tried to grab you anyway. this is where you should have been looking for habits and abusing them in your opponents playstyle--you could have had a free grab or usmash there. you chose to do a lot of unsafe lasers that entire match, you're lucky you didn't get punished much for it--you can't laser puff in very close proximity because she can float in and bair from so far away in a very fast amount of time (the time it takes you to fullhop triple laser or fullhop double laser ff)
unknown522
Some guy
As I said before, it looks like you're messing around a lot so I don't know where to critique....Please critique me
It combos in training mode, but I dunno if there's a difference in vs mode or something.
no. You can always SDI it, but it's hard when fox's u-air is too deep.
Azen could SDI u-airs all the time. It's ********, he'd end up below the fox most of the time.
DI behind marth. You're still probably gonna get combo'd or edgeguarded if they are decent, but it's your best bet to not get tipper'd
It's good for stopping CC+DD spamming characters/players (*cough* marth *cough*)
Lovage
Smash Hero
approaching with shine is a pretty good thing for advanced players, but it isn't something i would recommend to new foxes. if you don't know how to do it correctly you're gonna run into a lot of falcon/falco/fox/pikachu nairs for bad spacing/timing (something that comes with experience, there is no magical approach that bypasses experience.)
i don't use it that much because it's hard to do it carefully and protect yourself at the same time, i recommend doing it almost exclusively if you can do a good waveland above you right after, and quickly. it's pretty good against falcon.
try it out at your own measure and figure out how you can implement it, but don't force it or you're gonna get hit by dumb stuff 20 times a game
i don't use it that much because it's hard to do it carefully and protect yourself at the same time, i recommend doing it almost exclusively if you can do a good waveland above you right after, and quickly. it's pretty good against falcon.
try it out at your own measure and figure out how you can implement it, but don't force it or you're gonna get hit by dumb stuff 20 times a game
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I'm still looking for that magical approach.
iamthemicrowave
Smash Master
@tomacawk: cunning still plays a good amount he just doesn't enter tournies
unknown522
Some guy
good post.
Thanatos*~
Smash Apprentice
swift told me that he uses approaching shine with confidence in knowing that the opponent will not attack. Its seems like an intuition driven approach.
lovage described it best
lovage described it best
lord karn
Smash Master
I don't really understand this part very much. Are you talking about a platform above you with the waveland after? It seems to me that the main weakness of the shine approach is the range; if they know you are going to do it, it won't work against spaced moves. Like someone said earlier, it beats retreating. However, why would you want to waveland after, if it hits either them or their shield? It would seem like you would either combo then or shield pressure.
Fortress | Sveet
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When i did it, i only saw the 2 uair hits combo. Does it show for you a 3 hit combo?
edit- sorry for double post, forgot i quoted this in another tab when i did my 2nd post.
Fortress | Sveet
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being on a platform after you shine is really good for a few reasons.
If you hit their shield, being above them limits their options. In order to attack you, they would have to do a uair or usmash OoS. Both are fairly obvious and risky, especially because the opponent should be expecting them. Because of that, you'll see people try to respace themselves with a wd OoD or roll. Overall, you are probably not going to be in any danger unless you mess up, while at the same time you are in favorable position to cover their options.
If you hit them and then waveland, many times you do want to follow up. If you hit them out of the air, though, you can't follow it up and you want to respace yourself.
maybe i'm wrong, but thats some advantages i saw.
If you hit their shield, being above them limits their options. In order to attack you, they would have to do a uair or usmash OoS. Both are fairly obvious and risky, especially because the opponent should be expecting them. Because of that, you'll see people try to respace themselves with a wd OoD or roll. Overall, you are probably not going to be in any danger unless you mess up, while at the same time you are in favorable position to cover their options.
If you hit them and then waveland, many times you do want to follow up. If you hit them out of the air, though, you can't follow it up and you want to respace yourself.
maybe i'm wrong, but thats some advantages i saw.
Lovage
Smash Hero
yes i meant wavelanding on a platform above you (DUH)
this is better than just shining and double jumping back because if you whiff the shine they can still hit you while you're jumping back (and very vulnerable) especially with something like full hop nair from fox or lasers from falco.
being on a platform with full range of movement is much safer then floating in the air with like 2 options of how to come down (both of which a good player will cover with grab or nair.) maybe against noobs it feels like you can just jump way up and fall down with bair anywhere and be safe, but against players that can remember your air patterns and punish accordingly (mango) being in the air like that is pretty bad
if you shine in the air and you miss, you can waveland up top so you can possibly bair them after, or at least force them to shield.
or if you aren't in the best position to come down from the top platform with a bair or something (ie you're fighting a marth, coming straight down from the platform is an autograb for marth) you can just dash on the platform for a sec or go to a side platform until you see a good opportunity to score a bair or get on the ground again.
using shine as an approach and then wavelanding safely: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a87Ds3ibf54#t=2m20s
using shine oos to counter falco's shield pressure and then using the platform to continue combo or pressure http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a87Ds3ibf54#t=2m43
How do you sdi Fox's uair when the uair is extremely inside a character? Like, the legs are all up in the character and the "end/back" of Fox is touching the other character. Do you have to like sdi the first hit up and away or something?
`DNS`
Smash Lord
Fortress | Sveet
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zoso told me to sdi and asdi, but i usually just sdi. Sometimes you sdi but still get hit by the 2nd hit which is lame.
`DNS`
Smash Lord
yeah you have to either sdi it as far away from the second hitbox as possible
or go crazy with frame perfect sdi wherever the **** you want
or go crazy with frame perfect sdi wherever the **** you want
I think KirbyKaze has a good guide on how to di fox's uthrow uair.
Behold http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6430241&postcount=1
Behold http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6430241&postcount=1
lord karn
Smash Master
Ok, I get it now. I thought we were talking about shining out of running, meaning if the shine hit you would just go into either a combo or shield pressure. Didn't realize we were talking about aerial shines.
Tomacawk
Smash Master
you can SDI well and still not get out.
Lovage
Smash Hero
^^^^
SDIing uairs is not a one man equation
when you get uair'd, you have the opportunity to SDI out of the first hit so the second hit will miss. and when uairing you, they have the opportunity to move with the direction you SDI so the second hit still hits.
if you're good at SDIing out of uair, a very perceptive player will remember which direction you smash, and he will time it and space it so that the second hit will still hit you. so you would have to mix up which directions you're SDIing
that's that 2012 ****
Lovage - So if thats the case,whats a general SDI rule against fox's upair.
I never knew that O_o
I never knew that O_o
Lovage
Smash Hero
just follow KK's guide, it shows pretty much what you have to do.
if you don't DI the upthrow you should do one of two things usually. if you're at high percent and they have to jump really high for the second hit to hit (ie puff at high percents,) smash di up
if you're at low percents, lots of foxes will overshoot their jumps and you can smash di down to avoid the second hit (the azen)
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Jman uthrows, Hax DIs behind and somehow double jumps out. I thought this wasn't possible (and he Falcon has to tech).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQqViugOoTE#t=2m24s
Explain, please?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQqViugOoTE#t=2m24s
Explain, please?
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
things are easier in training mode because there is no di using the cstick
Rubyiris
Smash Hero
I'm going to ask again since the question was ignored last time:
Problem I have with Fox: My thumb locks up alot. Maybe about 40% of every game I play with fox my thumb stiffens up. How do I fix this?
Just imagine only being able to sh aerial 60% of the time, and only being able to drill (optional) shine > wavedash > grab/usmash less than 30% of the time. <_<
Problem I have with Fox: My thumb locks up alot. Maybe about 40% of every game I play with fox my thumb stiffens up. How do I fix this?
Just imagine only being able to sh aerial 60% of the time, and only being able to drill (optional) shine > wavedash > grab/usmash less than 30% of the time. <_<