Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Miggz]

I wasn't saying that he should stop playing/training. It's just that I feel he's going about it all wrong. He said it himself that "I finally got a chance to fight someone."

Practicing tech skill is important, but not being able to properly implement what you can do, recognize when you should do something (or not do something, which is just as important), is a severe problem.

You can't teach someone how to watch your opponent and predict his next move or reaction by reading a guide in a thread. Some people say tech skill is the foundation for competitive play, but I disagree with this. I feel that tech skill augments competitive play. It is knowledge of the game and capabilities of the characters, their movesets, and how characters interact that is the real foundation.

This was incredibly well said.

Sorry about the previous miscommunication.

 

[soap]

I agree with this. If tech skill were the foundation for competitive play, Silent Wolf would win every tournament.

im sick of people ragging on silent wolf in their examples.

 

[RaynEX]

I agree, but its not our fault he's more technical than all of Texas.

Or, dare I say it, the entire membership of AllisBrawl.

edit: Who am I kidding, PCHU is more technical than those AiB dudes.

 

[Miggz]

ROFL!

Flippin right, RaynEX.

 

[soap]

Miggz, u certainly love your sasuke avatars haha.

 

[EC_Joey]

Is there really no Smash community whatsoever in Tennessee?

 

[Tomacawk]

I agree, but its not our fault he's more technical than all of Texas.

Or, dare I say it, the entire membership of AllisBrawl.

edit: Who am I kidding, PCHU is more technical than those AiB dudes.

I frequent AiB QUITE often, me and Zjiin run that ***** and help the brawl noobs with their melee questions, and I'm more technical than PCHU/literally every single AiB member except MAYBE blackpanther (but he doesn't frequent the forums he just has a membership)
So I take offense to that!

 

[Meneks]

I frequent AiB QUITE often, me and Zjiin run that ***** and help the brawl noobs with their melee questions, and I'm more technical than PCHU/literally every single AiB member except MAYBE blackpanther (but he doesn't frequent the forums he just has a membership)
So I take offense to that!

I beg to differ..

 

[EC_Joey]

Remember boys, the size of your e-peen corresponds to how much tech skill you think you have.

 

[RaynEX]

I'm a member of AiB....

alright I'm kidding. Definitely kidding.

We should have a techskill power rankings for the Fox boards. Releasing 1min max vids of our improvements every month so people can rate and judge each month's PR changes.

lmao what a silly *** idea. Time to stroke our e-peens.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I've stroked my e-peen 4 times today

trufact.

 

[Meneks]

Great idea...I'd do it

 

[DtJ Jungle]

what? my e-peen? or stroke it 4 times?

 

[RaynEX]

Great idea...I'd do it

Really?

what? my e-peen? or stroke it 4 times?

No - just no.

 

[PCHU]

Is there really no Smash community whatsoever in Tennessee?

Oh, there is, it's just severely lacking in Jackson.
There are just so many people playing Brawl that there is practically no Melee action.
That I know of.

With Brawl being 'so much better than Melee' to a good majority of our community, we've probably lost some valuable players that we never knew we had.
Jackson is big on Brawl, but as for Melee, there are only a few good players.
That I know of.
And those good players are me, my friend Juniortoons, and a guy named Warpd.
I'm sure there's more, but they aren't showing at all.

Jackson needs a good Melee tourney to weed out the worst from the best.
I can't host it, though.
Yet.


And AiB....
I have an account.
Ever heard of The Moogle Knight? No?
Good, that means that nobody is talking about me.
But since AiB does have Silent Wolf, that automatically makes me not the best.
Unless we're counting the people that DON'T have a smashboards account as well.
Even then, I doubt it.

 

[NES n00b]

Is there really no Smash community whatsoever in Tennessee?

Memphis has triweeklies every....well three weeks. xD If you are in East TN there are some people in Nashville or around there.

In other words there is not much of a problem in terms of distance from him. Maybe it is parental johns or something.

 

[Miggz]

Miggz, u certainly love your sasuke avatars haha.

LOL! Yeah, Sasuke is my favorite ninja ever. ^^

@ RaynEX: That's an interesting idea. The funny thing is, I have a Dazzle Capture Card, RCA cables, AV splitters...but now I need a stronger laptop. So my smash mate is getting one in May, and I am getting one early June. I can't wait till one of us gets it so I can record again at last...in high quality! XD

But for your idea, I wouldn't mind whipping out the old camera and record a quick minute. ^^

 

[EC_Joey]

Tennessee sounds a lot like Rhode Island in terms of their Smash communities. There's a decent Brawl community, but only a handful of Melee players.

Well, at least the other two Melee players here are within 40 minutes of driving distance. Rhode Island's tiny, while Tennessee is much bigger.

 

[PCHU]

Memphis has triweeklies every....well three weeks. xD If you are in East TN there are some people in Nashville or around there.

In other words there is not much of a problem in terms of distance from him. Maybe it is parental johns or something.

The only way I'd ever get into a tourney is if I had gas money and entry fee money.
Right now, I lack enough to buy a gumball.
My weekly income is $0.
But tomorrow, it's going to double.

Anyways, yeah.
My parents don't care for Smash much at all.
My mother even stated once that she hated it.

And Tomacawk?
I joined your "Players who are needlessly technical group".
Remember, I'm The Moogle Knight.
I was the one that posted twice in a row.
Not my fault, the thing is freakin' deserted.
Not to mention I got bored, so I posted my new tree-shine record of 168.
No big deal, anyone with hands can do it.
I just took the time that others didn't

Crap, it's 9:30.
Check your responses tomorrow, 'night.

 

[EC_Joey]

@Raynex:

I watched your tech skill practice video and noticed a lot of running shines. I pretty much never use running shines as a combo starter. How often do you pull one off in a real match? I'd imagine you could tech chase with a running shine, but approaching with it seems too risky.

 

[soap]

u can running shine out of dash dances. just remember that u can dash cancel as soon as u pass the thresh hold of the dash dance. U don't have to blatantly run from the other side of the stage and shine aka "the kel's approach"

 

[EC_Joey]

I usually prefer to punish approaches with a JC grab if I'm dash dancing.

Edit: I'm referring to a Fox ditto, specifically. If it was a different character, like Falco, I would be shielding lasers.

 

[soap]

nothing wrong with that.

running shine is just sexier.

 

[RaynEX]

@Raynex:

I watched your tech skill practice video and noticed a lot of running shines. I pretty much never use running shines as a combo starter. How often do you pull one off in a real match? I'd imagine you could tech chase with a running shine, but approaching with it seems too risky.

The fact of the matter is, grab/usmash/Sh something will almost always be better than running shine is (when you have an opening).

When I have a comfortable lead, I tend to try it while I'm DDing or techchasing. Its especially easy when your opponent is in their shield; because you can do something to bait their grab sometimes and get a free running shine combo. In tournament, I wouldn't do it unless I'm confident I can afford to throw away a free grab or punish.

Vs. DD campers: This is pretty much where I got the idea to extend running shine into stupid *** follow-ups. They'd run back to avoid my attack, but I'd keep on running and shine then JC it into something unnecessarily flashy. Don't spam it too much; I simply use it to keep things different and fresh. I try to be as creative as possible when I play.

tl;dr - I'd say to use it when you know they are running back aka overshooting.

 

[Tomacawk]

lol why do people flame me when I mention that I'm technical
I'm aware that doesn't make me good, and I'm aware that everybody is technical nowadays
FFS haha
I would actually enjoy a special tech skill olympics, it'd be pretty interesting
and meneks, do you frequent AiB? I only notice me and Zjiin in the melee sections, with Deff occasionally stopping in. my apologies if you do

 

[Miggz]

Its probably the way you say it. If you know people will "flame" you, then simply end your point with something that will allow readers to know that you know that tech skill isn't everything.

It sucks, but miscommunication happens all the time on the net. :-)

 

[Tomacawk]

I made the mistake of thinking the fox boards knows who I am enough to realize I'm not ********
I guess I was incorrect
and it's almost like "hey, he thinks he's good. SHATTER HIS DREAMS" lol

 

[krazyzyko]

Let's discuss some edgegaurding.

Personally, I've got the worst luck in the world shining firefoxes and firebirds. My timing is wonky. One day I'll be good to go, and the next I'll be completely off. I've got no problems with illusions, though, which is good..

Fox's and Falco's F-smash have a nice hitbox that hits under the edge the last frames, you can space your edge gaurding and hit them with the F-smash even if they sweetspot, if they tech you'll be ready for the next recovery.

 

[RaynEX]

Or you could dsmash. : D

 

[Grmo]

I never edgeguard things with shine, since I don't have enough confidence to do it consistently nor the geographical proximity to other players to practice it enough, so I just use downsmash or bair. I like getting right out in their faces and hitting them before the firefox starts. dair to shine is fun if you can land it, since you can shine as soon as it's there and they should be in the right place. I dunno, normally I d smash if it looks like they're gonna land on the edge or i usmash if they're gonna hit me, or if i'm feeling really impatient i'll just grab them. for firefox, i almost always jump out and hit them. I like to avoid giving them any chance to tech.

haaaaaags Grainex you beat me to it

 

[krazyzyko]

Or you could dsmash. : D

Nah, Fox's Downsmash has crappy priority and it's very laggy, it's too risky and there are much better options. (Bair, Fsmash, shine, D'tilt)

 

[Grmo]

D smash is pretty safe. It's the move of choice among a lot of pros.

 

[Meneks]

lol why do people flame me when I mention that I'm technical
I'm aware that doesn't make me good, and I'm aware that everybody is technical nowadays
FFS haha
I would actually enjoy a special tech skill olympics, it'd be pretty interesting
and meneks, do you frequent AiB? I only notice me and Zjiin in the melee sections, with Deff occasionally stopping in. my apologies if you do

lol I was joking, and you meant active as in posting on the boards? Nah i dont really post on the AIB forums..

My name on there is Psykedelik....

@RaynEX I think it would be a great/fun idea to have a sort of tech skill weekly or monthly competition it would be fun...

 

[RaynEX]

Nah, Fox's Downsmash has crappy priority and it's very laggy, it's too risky and there are much better options. (Bair, Fsmash, shine, D'tilt)

It goes lower than Fsmash, and if you're close enough to the edge, they won't even be able to tech - because you'll hit them before they get close to the wall. Vs. illusions, double jump sweetspots and even firefox sweetspots, dsmash is better overall and more viable.

 

[CanISmash]

word to raynex but i used d-smash 1000x more when i waas more nubbish and rarely now though it'll prolly **** against spacies. ill try to bring it back.

and grmo you can practice on level 1-9 cpu spacies. they suck at recovering more than once but they always take bad, or awkward angles to firefox that'll give you good practice to shinespike them out of. you just wont get the cc on the stage practice

 

[Miggz]

Nah, Fox's Downsmash has crappy priority and it's very laggy, it's too risky and there are much better options. (Bair, Fsmash, shine, D'tilt)

You kidding?

D smash edge guard *****!

 

[Doggalina]

I'm finding that I have trouble in two matchups: dittos and Peach. I have to ability to **** in both matchups (I can 4 stock the resident Foxes/Peach), so I apparently CAN do it right, but I am not consistent AT ALL.

Any general tips?

 

[MegaMarthMan]

I don't get how you wave dash far enough to thunder combo fox + falco or drill shine marth any help (do I do the mew2king angle)

 

[Miggz]

I'm finding that I have trouble in two matchups: dittos and Peach. I have to ability to **** in both matchups (I can 4 stock the resident Foxes/Peach), so I apparently CAN do it right, but I am not consistent AT ALL.

Any general tips?

I could give you general tips such as "watch vids," or simply "keep playing the match up to get getter at it," but I'm sure you want better advice.

I think you should explain in more detail the exact problems you face in each match up. Do get gimped by the opposing Fox's shine? Do you get down-smashed by Peach a lot?

But, at the same time I don't want to leave you hanging so I'll try and help you out.

Against Fox, you can chain grab with up throws from 0%. At low percents you can also up throw and start to juggle with up tilts. Of course you should rely on your SHFFL nairs/dairs to shine/waveshine. The edge game is a whole new ball game in Fox dittos. If the opposing Fox tries to sweet spot the edge with the phantasm/side B, a well timed down smash can end him easily. If you find yourself being edge guarded, I'd recommend learning how to "shorten" your phantasm by pressing B when Fox makes the "woosh" noise. Just to switch it up. But be careful, if you plan to shorten it, make sure you use it a little above and a short distance from the edge.

A general edge guarding tip I stole from RaynEX (sorry buddy ^^) is to keep my back towards the edge. I'm sure he can explain it better, but in general, having your back towards the edge allows you to cover almost all possible options. With you back to the edge, you can down smash, edge guard with bair, wavedash onto the edge, ect. As for shine spiking spacies, I tend to do it when they are charging their Up B underneath me.

As for Peach, I'm sure you know but she has a nasty crouch canceling game. I'd recommend using SHFFL dairs to shine/waveshines as one approach. She can't crouch cancel Fox's dair. If you do use nair, be very careful, especially at low percents. Nairs are good for juggling at high percents though. Its also important to get uairs at low percents as well.

Edge guarding Peach isn't too hard. I'd stall on the ledge (reviving my invulnerable frames) and when she floats by either attempt a shine spike, or a bair. Another trick would be to stand at the edge with your back facing the recovering Peach, and simply stand there. The Peach might air dodge, and then you can proceed to up smash her to death.

I hope this helps.

I don't get how you wave dash far enough to thunder combo fox + falco or drill shine marth any help (do I do the mew2king angle)

To drill shine Marth, you have to do a perfect wavedash. To do this, make sure you are pointing the joystick as horizontal as possible and then you have to run a little bit to actually catch him.

 

[Milos]

grabs vs fox should always turn into a massive combo

peach gets waveshined to grabs, up smash, anything really.

of course there's more, but start out with that, about as general as you can get