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Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

Diakonos

Diakonos

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Yeah we're talking to you! What's it to yah?

=D JK. But yeah, Marth is good vs Sheik on FD, eye-mo. The uthrow combos are fantastic. And, the edgeguarding is simplified due to no platforms to worry about (though sometimes you can set up tippers from them).

Just know when to jump out of the dthrow, and take the hit and stop the combo. Your combos are just as deadly.
 
Tee ay eye

Tee ay eye

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JBM falcon08

JBM falcon08

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Nice matches Tai.

I was wondering when playing vs pikachu at what % should i be worried to be usmashed?

If you could tell me what % on each neutral stage that would be great.
 
Tee ay eye

Tee ay eye

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hmm... i don't really know the exact percentages myself, lol

just know that pika's usmash is slightly stronger than fox's when uncharged
 
Niko45

Niko45

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Tai's Marth looking fresh. I loved those edgehog steals. Brilliant stuff.

Something I've been meaning to try in edgeguarding pikachu is a delayed ledgehop dair. In theory it feels like it should work as being on the ledge gets them to aim for the stage, and then with proper timing that back end of the dair hitbox should work. Any experience trying this Tai, since it seems like you have the general timing down of pika's recovery?
 
Tee ay eye

Tee ay eye

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Niko45 said:
Tai's Marth looking fresh. I loved those edgehog steals. Brilliant stuff.

Something I've been meaning to try in edgeguarding pikachu is a delayed ledgehop dair. In theory it feels like it should work as being on the ledge gets them to aim for the stage, and then with proper timing that back end of the dair hitbox should work. Any experience trying this Tai, since it seems like you have the general timing down of pika's recovery?
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yeah, that sounds like it would work, but i'd be really scared to do it, because if you miss, that means pika hits you with his quick attack, gets a ledge sweetspot, and probably is about to make you his *****.

im just terrified of going near off-stage vs pikachu :laugh:

because sometimes really gay stuff like this happens:
 
Broly

Broly

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Why not try n-air off ledge? it covers a large range and tip will hit hard. I haven't really fought a great pikachu, so I can't really say much. But n-air are b-air are great tools
 
Taj278

Taj278

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Broly said:
Ya'll are scrubs...

pika in FD 90-95
DL 64 105-110
BF 95-100
FoD 85-93
Yoshi 80-90
Click to expand...
Scrub, FoD has a higher ceiling than FD and BF. :p

And most of those percentages (except for FoD) would KO without even worrying about the thunder following up except on DL because the thunder doesn't reach the vertical KO blast zone from the bottom of the stage.
 
Diakonos

Diakonos

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Umm, excuse me...

Taj278 said:
Scrub, FoD has a higher ceiling than FD and BF. :p

And most of those percentages (except for FoD) would KO without even worrying about the thunder following up except on DL because the thunder doesn't reach the vertical KO blast zone from the bottom of the stage.
Click to expand...
=O back to the M2 forums, scrub!

=P thanks for the info, Taj.
 
Magus420

Magus420

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On the strong initial hit of Pika's u-smash there's 3 hitboxes. One does 19, another 18, and the 3rd does 17. The 19 hit is more powerful than Fox's u-smash both charged and uncharged, and also hits closer to straight up. 19 and 18 otherwise have identical stats, but the extra point of damage leaves them with more total damage as well as having more effective knockback growth since it's multiplied by raw hitbox damage. It's stronger than Fox's u-smash uncharged but pretty close to the same when charged. 17 does less damage but also has a lower KBG stat so it's a larger difference between that and the 18 than the 19 and 18.

Fox U-Smash (Strong)
Damage: 18/18
Angle: 80/80
KBG: 112/112
BKB: 30/30

Pika U-Smash (Strong)
Damage: 19/18/17
Angle: 85/85/85
KBG: 110/110/100
BKB: 40/40/40

Peach U-Smash (Shoulder)
Damage: 19
Angle: 90
KBG: 100
BKB: 40
 
Metal Reeper

Metal Reeper

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DJMirror said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlbKBziJI2E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXAcYHZdQCM


some advice against peach please.
Click to expand...
I g2g soon, so I only watched like first 2 mins of the first vid, i will watch and edit this post later.

I like your Marth, nice edgehog at 1:24.

At about 1:54 you get grabbed and I beleive you DI'ed the wrong way, so that messed ya up, and you also didn't save your jump, what I mean by that is, as soon as you get out of hitstun you jumped up, and MacD cuts off your angle for the recovery and gets the edgehog, save that jump for when your closer, much better recovery option.

What I like to do against Peach is to just keep that dumb ***** above me, uthrow, utilt, anything like that, cause she can't do much above Marth, also crouch under them FoD platforms and Fsmash <3

Peaches also do this other thing im sure you've seen it, where the Peach will float JUST out of your range, they are just trying to bait you, don't fall for it, just wait, watchout for that.

2nd match- liked that ken combo, ya need to DI that Fthrow, and save that jump.You were really aggressive this match, tried to go off stage a lot and got punished for it.

3rd- lol at the music, but i like. You also try and spike a lot, don't try it as much, or if your going to, don't go offstage.

MacD is very aggressive towards you, or maybe that is just his style, I only played him 3 times at apex so idk. Use that against him, bait him, wait for him to go after you, I hope this helped somewhat.
 
D

DJMirror

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Metal Reeper said:
I g2g soon, so I only watched like first 2 mins of the first vid, i will watch and edit this post later.

I like your Marth, nice edgehog at 1:24.

At about 1:54 you get grabbed and I beleive you DI'ed the wrong way, so that messed ya up, and you also didn't save your jump, what I mean by that is, as soon as you get out of hitstun you jumped up, and MacD cuts off your angle for the recovery and gets the edgehog, save that jump for when your closer, much better recovery option.

What I like to do against Peach is to just keep that dumb ***** above me, uthrow, utilt, anything like that, cause she can't do much above Marth, also crouch under them FoD platforms and Fsmash <3

Peaches also do this other thing im sure you've seen it, where the Peach will float JUST out of your range, they are just trying to bait you, don't fall for it, just wait, watchout for that.

2nd match- liked that ken combo, ya need to DI that Fthrow, and save that jump.You were really aggressive this match, tried to go off stage a lot and got punished for it.

3rd- lol at the music, but i like. You also try and spike a lot, don't try it as much, or if your going to, don't go offstage.

MacD is very aggressive towards you, or maybe that is just his style, I only played him 3 times at apex so idk. Use that against him, bait him, wait for him to go after you, I hope this helped somewhat.
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Ahh thank you.

I used to play MacD alot but I stop playing for awhile and I recently started playing him again. I'm kinda rusty on this match up so yeah.

I feel bad asking MacD to play me when he was too busy being an pro at StarCraft 2 and ****** the battlefield with his probes and downsmash (he use the storm as a downsmash)
 
MacD

MacD

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loolol diakanos, you should watch me in dittos or against like fox or characters that don't have giant swords of doom

and besides, playing a marth i know is good in tourney requires me spam and wait if i want to win

but jkun got this, next time he records i'll know it's for this so i'll try playing the match up more correctly so he can learn to get around turnip spam :grin:
 
Niko45

Niko45

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Dart! said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt89W_wo708&feature=feedu

not to take away from legacy but, i would like to hear feedback about the set. i just kinda lost wind after awhile :/
Click to expand...
God dam first 2 matches were ****. As for the rest:

1) - biggest problem is way way too much fsmash on stage from neutral position. You were catching him in the first 2 matches, he even missed the DI on some for auto kills, but he caught on eventually. It's not hard for falcon to catch on to this and he's pretty much going to half-stock you consistently for whiffing. The other approach you're doing too often is dash attacking. Dash attack is really lucrative when it connects, to the point where its definitely worth using, but not as often as you are using it. This is a very campy matchup for both characters, and you honestly seem to be doing just about all of the approaching in these matches.

2) I think you should work on your full hop combo game. A lot of the time once you juggle him into full hop territory, you kinda just nair him away for no follow up, and he usually just lands perfectly on the ledge. Try some full hop fair/uairs with fastfalls on to the platforms to extend those combos. Try mindgames on stages like Stadium or FD where you know you your next aerial is the last one you can do in your combo. Hit them with a weak fair/bair, fastfall immediately back to the ground and try to read what they'll do out of it (possibly snag a double jump/land a grab as they come down with falcon kick or an aerial).

3) Sort of extending upon 2, there are times where you could be following up where you aren't. Whenever you up tilt him high over your shoulder, you should be able to fair him before he jumps out or does anything. Also out of grabs, he shouldn't be able to escape up throw -> aerial combos which is just about knowing exactly when you are out of stun after throwing Falcon.

4) Read his DI when you dthrow him offstage. If he DIs hard in, counter right away as he's almost surely going to try to DJ attack you asap (or wall jump bair or something). If he DIs away, take the ledge or do the wavedash off fair gimp. If you're unsure what he will do, taking the ledge is usually really safe. Just forces him on stage and you get a guaranteed follow up out of it.

5) Just a trick I picked up recently, most competent CFs don't jump into the fsmash after you fthrow dtilt them offstage. If you get an fthrow dtilt, drop zone fair with no fastfall immediately. This connects and can be followed up with a DJ fair or you could just DJ reverse up B them. It's not a guaranteed KO at lower percents but it does guarantee an edgeguard opportunity.

In general mix up your neutral game a bit more. Camp grab sometimes, retreat fair, side B to intercept his approach, even just run at him with shield. Work on the full hop combo game as well.

Oh, and that combo on battlefield to upsmash was ****ing ****. :laugh:
 
TheCrimsonBlur

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Niko45 said:
5) Just a trick I picked up recently, most competent CFs don't jump into the fsmash after you fthrow dtilt them offstage. If you get an fthrow dtilt, drop zone fair with no fastfall immediately. This connects and can be followed up with a DJ fair or you could just DJ reverse up B them. It's not a guaranteed KO at lower percents but it does guarantee an edgeguard opportunity.
Click to expand...
Didn't know this.

Good **** Niko. :)
 
Niko45

Niko45

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I know watching Teczero originally gave me the idea for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuTIfAPrIME&feature=related

1:23 is an ok example of how this works. Problem with this one is that the CF actually DID jump too soon and would have gotten hit by an fsmash anyway, then Tec0 got greedy as hell and killed himself reverse up Bing him unnecessarily. If I can find a better example I'll post it.

The issue I've found is that no matter how fast I try to do the fair, it ALWAYS tips, giving CF the height he needs to still be able to recover. CF jumps too soon in the above example allowing marth to hit with a nontip fair after hesitating. However if the CF waits and tries to DJ sweetspot after the dtilt, he'll be too low and you'll only scrape him with the bottom part of the tip fair. If I can get the first dropzone fair to not tip I think it would be a legit gimp.
 
Winston

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niko, do you think runoff dj fair works in the situation you described? It seems to work for me if the fthrow -> dtilt connects. That way you're in position to take advantage of it whether or not it tips, or if they airdodge, etc.

It's not as flashy but I feel like it's reliable.
 
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