Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

[DJMirror]

but jkun got this, next time he records i'll know it's for this so i'll try playing the match up more correctly so he can learn to get around turnip spam

I really don't know what to do because I know you're always looking for my double jump =/

MacD made me scared to play Fox. I heard he works at the zoo

He doesn't just work at the zoo. He owns the zoo.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

niko, do you think runoff dj fair works in the situation you described? It seems to work for me if the fthrow -> dtilt connects. That way you're in position to take advantage of it whether or not it tips, or if they airdodge, etc.

It's not as flashy but I feel like it's reliable.

couldn't they sweetspot their jump and invincible attack you before you did that? wouldn't run-off fair cover the DJ option as well as the upb option?

And why wouldn't you run-off dj dair instead?

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Crimson, did you draw that Marth in your sig? My gf is gonna make me one, and she's thinking of drawing him...

Can I show her yours as inspiration?

No I definitely didn't, I am not that talented

Here's the source:

http://xxxnejixtentenxxx.deviantart.com/art/Marth-The-fireemblem-prince-108261964?q=&qo=
All credit to xXxnejixtentenxXx at deviantArt

Mystery of the Emblem has some amazing art too:

Check google images and deviant art and you will get a lot of good source material. Marth is really popular to draw for some reason.

Probably because hes a ****** mother****er.

 

[Diakonos]

Just show her a picture of me and she'll feel inspired for days

Lol you come across as confident, did you know that?

No I definitely didn't, but I'm going to be helpful.

Thanks very much Crimson. That'll give her an idea to work with.

I approve of The Crimson Blur.

 

[Metal Reeper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d39VNqhBGRI

ref code: QDLRZ

 

[Winston]

couldn't they sweetspot their jump and invincible attack you before you did that? wouldn't run-off fair cover the DJ option as well as the upb option?

And why wouldn't you run-off dj dair instead?

I think it works because if they wait to jump they get hit by the fair anyway. The fair arc goes a little bit below marth so as you are djing back on stage it hits them.

runoff dj dair is like the same thing isn't it? It just requires more precision to execute. If you land an fair like that it'll lead to a guaranteed edgeguard.

runoff fair covers all their options like niko said but he mentioned something about the tipper fair allowing them to escape.

 

[Niko45]

Winston I think you're talking about a different DI than I am or something because CFs DJ sweetspot is too quick to be DJing and hitting. I Need to fair instantly to hit him at all. I guess this is for when CF DIs the dtilt in. If he DIs away, yea, you could make a quick adjustment and DJ fair instead of immediate fair in case he tries to pull back and up B over you or something. More often than not, though I find they DI the dtilt in and go for the sweetspot, in which case he'll be on the ledge before you even get a move out.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Winston I think you're talking about a different DI than I am or something because CFs DJ sweetspot is too quick to be DJing and hitting. I Need to fair instantly to hit him at all. I guess this is for when CF DIs the dtilt in. If he DIs away, yea, you could make a quick adjustment and DJ fair instead of immediate fair in case he tries to pull back and up B over you or something. More often than not, though I find they DI the dtilt in and go for the sweetspot, in which case he'll be on the ledge before you even get a move out.

Yeah, I am playing around with this gimp and getting the same results as you. I feel like there has to be a way to make this work though. I need a little more time in the lab

 

[Dart!]

@ Niko http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5p6PJwm2hU#

@2:02 this is the kind of full hop comboing you're talking about yeah?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

omg i love dtilt to runoff fair. its soo gooood. idk why you'd wanna complicate it, falcon has no options

 

[Metal Reeper]

Thanks for that critique, really helped.

 

[ChivalRuse]

ChivalRuse (Marth) vs Big Wenz (Falco)
ChivalRuse (Marth) vs Big Wenz (Falco) 2
ChivalRuse (Marth) vs Big Wenz (Doctor Mario)

I apologize for the bad quality. My friends are too lazy to upload footage of me, so this is the best I could do for now.

Feel free to tear me apart. I have a lot to learn.

 

[Niko45]

ChivalRuse (Marth) vs Big Wenz (Falco)
ChivalRuse (Marth) vs Big Wenz (Falco) 2
ChivalRuse (Marth) vs Big Wenz (Doctor Mario)

I apologize for the bad quality. My friends are too lazy to upload footage of me, so this is the best I could do for now.

Feel free to tear me apart. I have a lot to learn.

Just a couple of comments:

-Probably just a bad habit from other matchups, but try not to pummel spacies at all, honestly. They can break out even off just one pummel below 35% or so and you really want them to be missing DI on your up throw/fthrow dtilt anyway.

-Vs Doc I generally like to up throw him more than I fthrow/dthrow him unless I'm throwing him directly off stage. Much like sheik, snagging his double jump means a potentially huge punish on him, where as "safe" punishes off of fthrow/dthrow tech chases are more moderate and if you miss those tech chases its an instant punish for doc, which you don't want to give him for free. With up throw, at the very least he's out of position and even if you whiff a follow up read he won't be able to turn it around on you so drastically.

-In general it seems like when your opponent pressures your space you're doing quite a bit of full hop floating/run off DJ bairing back on stage as you sense the danger. Once he starts reading these responses from you its only going to make the situation worse and will probably get you gimped or something. Even rolling in is better here just because Doc can't punish you THAT hard for that unless you're at dthrow fair %, and despite how stupid it feels when you get called out rolling, it's still not the easiest of reads for a character like Doc who isn't exactly covering all options. Generally waveland on to that side platform, either in place or inward, or just nair in place -> jab/tilt/shield to try to kind of cover yourself without committing to anything he could read and punish. Doc's neutral position platform game is horrific, so keep that in mind and take advantage of platforms (I can't emphasize enough how hard it is to actually punish a marth who just wavelands in place at the very edge of that side platform and drops through with a well-timed retreating fair when necessary).

 

[Moxin]

So I attended my first ever melee tournament, and got some matches vs t1mmy and t0mmy (but t0mmy's weren't recorded). These are the first two from our loser's finals set, i went fox for the rest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93JLyBrUJuQ Moxin(marth) vs t1mmy(fox) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-BfRg4MV0U Moxin(marth) vs t1mmy(sheik) 2

My hands were kind of shaking, so in game 1 i never did any run off edgeguarding even when i should have and killed myself on what should have been my winning edgeguard, lol. Also i threw out too many fsmashs and spotdodged alot.

Besides that, any critiquing is much appreciated. Thanks.
Ref: Moxin667

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

lol the Chival Marth. too goodz

So I attended my first ever melee tournament, and got some matches vs t1mmy and t0mmy (but t0mmy's weren't recorded). These are the first two from our loser's finals set, i went fox for the rest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93JLyBrUJuQ Moxin(marth) vs t1mmy(fox) 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-BfRg4MV0U Moxin(marth) vs t1mmy(sheik) 2

My hands were kind of shaking, so in game 1 i never did any run off edgeguarding even when i should have and killed myself on what should have been my winning edgeguard, lol. Also i threw out too many fsmashs and spotdodged alot.

Besides that, any critiquing is much appreciated. Thanks.
Ref: Moxin667

Not bad for your first tournament man.

Its hard to not comment about the fsmashes when thats the number 1 thing you did wrong. You got like 200% each game because of them...its one of those things you cut out of your game in time so I wouldn't stress. Also, you'll get less nervous in time, so that will help a lot.

Way too much wavedashing. You don't look comfortable in your dash. In that Fox match there was no DD pivot grab or DD grab approach at all, and thats your number 1 weapon. Against opponents who you can't defensive grab, you'll need to be better with your DD in order to hit them at all. The offensive grabbing you did do was very predictable; you wavedashed into a certain distance (a little less than tipper) and then DD once and grabbed. You need way more mixups than that.

Too much jumping. Don't worry youre Marth, you got a big *** sword. If you are stuck in the air, don't panic and jump. React. This tendency translated to when you were on platforms too; you are a little too scared when you are above them. Pop out a lightshield, let them hit it, double jump and punish them. Drop down if you predict their chasing you up and utilt them. etc.

Be better and quicker on the ledge. Know your options and execute them quickly.

You weren't making an active effort to bait. Especially in that Sheik match. Make them scared of your approach. Don't try to surprise them, try to trick them.

Good Marth. Keep it up. It seems you have a solid understanding of %s, I was impressed that you did fthrow fsmash on a Sheik in the teens. The chaingrabs on Fox were on point too. Good ****.

 

[Moxin]

Thanks Blur, this is good stuff to work on. I'll be getting a license in like 23 days so hopefully I can hit up more tournaments and put it to use.

 

[booshk]

Thanks Blur, this is good stuff to work on. I'll be getting a license in like 23 days so hopefully I can hit up more tournaments and put it to use.

wow man, for your first tourny you were ripping **** up!! haha keep it up .

 

[Dart!]

Too many people play black marth. I'm switching colors :/

 

[ChivalRuse]

Just don't use white Marth LOL.

 

[Dart!]

no i'll probably play blue marth, pewpewU and i play very similarly...but oh my god my edgeguarding is > his though ewwwwwwwwwww.

 

[Niko45]

Blue Marth all day

 

[Moxin]

wow man, for your first tourny you were ripping **** up!! haha keep it up .

Thanks bro :D

EDIT: Oh and anyone else, I can't find a good pivot guide for marth, can you tell me about what the timing is?

Edit 2: Nvm got it.

 

[DJMirror]

Blue Marth all day

Quoting this for the ****ing truth.


So many blue marth mains now!

I used to started out with black first then everyone started to use it.

I switched to green and less then 2 weeks, everyone started to use green.

I switched to blue for almost a year and i'm like yay! now blue is starting to be popular.


at this rate, i'm going to use the white marth.

 

[ChivalRuse]

My Marth sucks **** on TVs with even the smallest amount of lag. Do you guys have the same problem?

 

[OverLord]

just don't play on laggy tvs :O

I refuse to play cuz I feel like Forrest Gump, I see frame by frame how is slooooooooooooow


what 'bout some freshymeshy matches?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqvqVDjbQTk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olH9zhd6p9s&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPV_FYNBYX4

 

[ChivalRuse]

Sometimes all of the TVs are laggy ...

 

[OverLord]

sometimes is betta don't play then xD

 

[ScrapMettle]

My Marth sucks **** on TVs with even the smallest amount of lag. Do you guys have the same problem?

Marth is really hard on lag TVs; if you decide you want to play Marth on a lag TV, just wavedash around and f-smash.

 

[Metal Reeper]

white marf all dai

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

if i had to play on a laggy tv, i would play marth. for me, he is the easiest character to mentally buffer with.

 

[OverLord]

I don't play on laggy tvs, but if I really have to, I play Sheik, autocancel and GGs

 

[Moxin]

white marf all dai

Yeah, just practice for laggy TVs by playing white marth and then switch to your actual color. There wont be any difference.

 

[_wzrd]

Ref: wizardty (ty)

vs samus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqfbcbklgxo

vs jiggs: http://www.youtube.com/user/theREALhawaii#p/search/4/1yToONqraZY
http://www.youtube.com/user/theREALhawaii#p/search/23/SLTick-0Xgo

vs ganon: http://www.youtube.com/user/theREALhawaii#p/search/6/zwG_nWzOyLo (I am pretty comfortable with this M/U and I won this set, but I still wanna know my bad habits)

vs peach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc41GoB31Cs (won this set too, but I feel iffy)

I decided I'd post all matches where I lost. I don't have very much experience vs these characters (or in tourney, but I'd like advice for these matchups! I'll watch for stuff too...It's painful sometimes cause I make some nooby mistakes, but I really wanna step it up.

ps these is as recent as it gets, I don't play people often, but I may get some newer footage soon...I'll ask for more help then lol

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Against samus, dont back off once she is in the air. As long as you don't get hit by a random nair (shouldn't happen cause your sword is longer) you should be able to win every conflict as long as she cant CC or shield your attacks. When i play this matchup, most of it is me looking for ways to either lure samus into jumping or hitting her into the air. When on the ground, your dtilt and grab are pretty much going to beat all of her options. If you space as well or better than her, you will win. Her entire goal is to make you space incorrectly and then punish you.

vs ganon is one of my favorite matchups, and a lot of your decisions kinda made me cringe. Once you're in on ganon, dont give it up. He has very poor combo escape options. If you get him in the air, nair him instead of fairing him because it has much better duration and at lower %'s it leads into a lot more than a fair does. Also it can't really be CC'd and it auto cancels. Win.

 

[_wzrd]

ooh thank you very much , Ill watch these again taking your advice into consideration...I get to play this samus again in a few days. from grab, is U throw the primary option then? get her above you etc?

Yeah my ganon game is really bad (esp that match). I cringed watching it too. I play a little better the next match (2-3 stock?). Nair sounds like a great idea! I've been using it a bit, but knowing that it beats CC helps a lot cause my buddy likes to do that.

I also have a mediocre *** fox/falco game, Ill try get some friendlies up...for now
anyone have any more advice on these chars, or jiggs/peach?

 

[OverLord]

that's how I play against Peach (here's when I win lol):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n5nqAVSxUk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFVr9vbQ-hc

essentially, use full hops Fair to block their float>turnip>Fair/Nair thing, and second jump back to bait them in dash attacking, punishing with Fair. Counter is good on turnips. Learn to Z-Catch 'em sometimes and it should be fine, if you achieve stopping Peach's spam you essentially win.

Watch out for dash attacks and down-smashes.

I play PAL so I don't try spiking too much, but in NTSC, Ken combo whenever you can, it ***** Peach, really, it works better than other match-ups.

 

[_wzrd]

haha thanks overlord! I liked your videos. peaches have been notoriously difficult for me (as the peach players I've met in my life time are a much higher skill level than me when I initially play them.

I do need to work on being more patient swatting turnips I think! And for some reason I can't Zcatch for ****, I can do ledgetechs/have pretty good techskill with everyone but I suck at that...I think Im getting peach practice soon though .

Ill try baiting the DA more, I get hit by that far more than I am comfortable with lol. Sometimes they are really good at overshooting and DA where I land, I guess I could still solve that by fair yes?

Im pretty good at spacing around down smash (I play falco as well...so Im reaaaally weary of that move).

aww thats right...Id love to try out pal, get some sexy ken combo->second dair and stuff...

YES I always go for ken combos if I can get that fair in at a decent position/percent...god bair->dair, dair->dair, ledgehop uair->dair all work beautifully lol...its so good in NTSC

 

[Dre the Ace]

I only have one current match up right now, vs. a Falcon, any critique would be great!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeyMf_UxcXE

 

[Dart!]

I only have one current match up right now, vs. a Falcon, any critique would be great!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeyMf_UxcXE

LOL i was at that tournament, i watched this set i think. critique when i rewatch it i spose

 

[Archangel]

I only have one current match up right now, vs. a Falcon, any critique would be great!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeyMf_UxcXE

Would you mind being in the next Legacy vid? You had 1 or 2 cool moments even though you lost. Got any more footage?

Also anyone else that wants to be in just post in the Where u at thread.