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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,297
Switch FC
SW-0654 7794 0698
Milk is awesome. I love milk.

Edit: But not as much as doc. God, I can't wait till spoc. I'm really bored, and I wanna see if I improved at least a bit.
Double edit: I'm tired of this stupid avatar. Imma make my own.
 

St. Viers

Smash Champion
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
2,409
Location
Boston MA
that's a good attitude.

I'm gonna....
...maybe place in a tourney if I can get to one, and get mah gc back anytime soon.
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 3, 2002
Messages
6,140
Location
Warner Robins, Georgia
I like how the matchup has to be horrible and it cant just be Im not good at the sheik matchup or anything.

Not good, dont have alot of experience in it, etc etc. Take your pick.


 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,297
Switch FC
SW-0654 7794 0698
Shiek is annoying to me. The only character that'd make me RAGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEE.
 

Gea

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
4,236
Location
Houston, Texas
I like how the matchup has to be horrible and it cant just be Im not good at the sheik matchup or anything.

Not good, dont have alot of experience in it, etc etc. Take your pick.


Well if the sheik waits it is pretty bad. Not like... unwinnable, but pretty dang bad. We have no real approach, bread n butter stuff works on us, etc. We just have to outplay them by a fair margin and not get grabbed.
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 3, 2002
Messages
6,140
Location
Warner Robins, Georgia
Im sittin around working with my crew right now comin up with some stuff. I mean, looking at that vid and knowing what I already know about sheik and whatnot, I've got some ideas that can (and probably actually do) work. Just gotta put everything together.
 

InterimOfZeal

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
2,932
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Please tell me you don't play V-13?
I do, but I don't main her. Everyone should play her, seriously. You have to at least know how to fight her properly.

But I main Carl, so yeah.


4) Doc/Yoshi vs Bloshi
5) Doc/Zelda vs Shag

__
4) So, bloshi came up to me and we played for a while. It's not every day you see a Yoshi. It's not every day you see a competent yoshi. And it's not every day you see a GOOD competent yoshi. So I sat down and played him for like, an hour?

I actually know quite a few things about yoshi already because I played bloshi and yoshido (and I think park?) in the past, and I messed around with yoshi for low tiers. So I know the deal about edge eggs, the flexibility of yoshi's aerials due to DJC, yoshi's fairly good comboability, air grab (neutral b), mini-spotdodge (f.smash), yada yada.

The few things I learned from this matchup were this.

A) Caping eggs is golden. Eggs are an amazingly good combo starter for yoshi. So imagine if you SH Capeland an egg and it hits? ^_^ Yeah.

B) Chaingrabbing yoshi is fairly hard. Bout as hard as chaingrabbing a ganon who knows how to get out easily (glares at chaddd).

C) Going more into grabs, if you're late on dunking yoshi, he's just going to DJ out of it, giving him super armor. He's still going to get hit (he cant respond fast enough unless you're horribly slow), it's just... he wont die. ... Infact, it's pretty much like you just went up there and u.aired him. -shrug- weird.

D) Last, but not least, dumb matchup knowledge. Yoshi has a problem coming out of shield, because he cant jump out of his shield (Yoshi 101). Because of this, he's obviously going to roll around some. Wanna screw with him? Cape him.

Think about it, when yoshi's in shield, he's in an egg, with no (real) noticable way of telling which way he's facing. If you think about it, it doenst really mean too much, but it could cause for some quick confusion to save you from catching a roll -> d.smash (or roll -> d.tilt).
OMFG

BLOSHI IS STILL ALIVE?!?

TELL HIM COLORADO MISSES HIM, AND TO COME BACK TO OUR THREAD!

Also, against Bloshi, watch for sidestep-dsmash. Hell, just watch for sidesteps, assuming he hasn't fixed that in yeaaaaaaaaaaaars.

I LOVE BLOSHI!

EDIT: Dogy, you really should come to Colorado. We're pretty much low tier whores that know how to play top tier. You can get some gooood exp vs Link, Luigi (high tier, but w/e), DK, GaW, Mario, Zelda.... and so forth. :D!

Oh, right. And we're good.
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
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Warner Robins, Georgia
Who knows, it might happen. I used to live in Colorado when I was a kid, and going back is a viable option atm.

But realistically, the ONLY thing I've never played in this game is a competent kirby.

--

In other news.

Yeaaaaa man
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
13,297
Switch FC
SW-0654 7794 0698
Site takes forever to load. I don't even know what it is! I just know its about Doo Doo DOOD DOO DOO DOO yeah...
 

ranmaru

Smash Legend
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Feb 10, 2008
Messages
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Switch FC
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ROFL LMAO, I didn't know that! I'm at school, without headphones. xD I shoulda brung those.
 

Gea

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
4,236
Location
Houston, Texas
Im sittin around working with my crew right now comin up with some stuff. I mean, looking at that vid and knowing what I already know about sheik and whatnot, I've got some ideas that can (and probably actually do) work. Just gotta put everything together.
Quit getting everyone's hopes up for nothing.

Just kidding we all know Sheik is too hard to matter

:)
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Dogy isn't good.

He's the BEST. BEST AROUND. MOTHER****ER.

YEAH. ROCK THAT WORLD.

Dogy I noticed you didn't grab the edge when he was shino stalling. And you didn't F-smash him when he was recovering. And various other things.

I hope my pointing out of your repeated trivial errors makes you feel bad about yourself.
 

St. Viers

Smash Champion
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
2,409
Location
Boston MA
Dude, give me a gamecube, melee, M2K, and like 5 weeks of solid play...doc will be top tier. And M2K will be getting 1st again.

More seriously, there are some stuff I wanna test out against sheik. Mostly has to do with cape and f-tilt. My train of thought should be obvious. Also, seeing dogy's match makes me wanna see something w/ pills and platforms.
 

Vulcan55

Smash Lord
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
1,824
Location
May-Lay
I just wanted to say, Dogy, that you sound way "blacker" than I thought you would from your pictures.
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 3, 2002
Messages
6,140
Location
Warner Robins, Georgia
I appreciate all the advice. I MEAN I'VE BEEN ASKING FOR ADVICE FOR A LONG TIME AND PEOPLE USUALLY JUST GIVE ME THE "oh you're good you'll get em next time" RUNAROUND.

As for me "sounding blacker", it kinda changes day by day, and depending on who im 'round. ^_^
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
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Messages
26,545
you've gotta make good reads and not **** up when you're fighting a platform camping sheik
and what unknown said.
 

Dogysamich

The Designated Hype Man!
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 3, 2002
Messages
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Warner Robins, Georgia
That's how it always goes.

Looking back at that vid, I honestly think there are some general things that you can take advantage of vs sheik, I just didnt know/didnt do it.

The thing is, just like every other top/high tier, they're real subtle things.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Dogy actually got some good hits in when he rode the platforms up to M2K's platform camp and chucked pills himself. He profited with a few Bairs and something else the one time he did it, which is pretty good for damage and also puts pressure on the platform camper. In addition to giving him a good outlet to approach with.

If nothing else, you can force her to move along the bottom, which means she's not platform camping anymore and you can fight her head-to-head. Sheik has **** aerial mobility, so provided you back the **** off when necessary, you probbaly shouldn't get punished much for doing so.

The real question is, why did he stop doing it?
 

Lixivium

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
2,689
Give me some advice guys:


1) First off I know I F-air too much. It's partly because I used to play Luigi a lot but also some of those are supposed to be N-airs.

2) I don't really know how to use pills...I just throw them out and hope they mess up the other guy somewhat

3) These are all friendlies

Vs. Marth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCIK8nLiXvY
Comments - This Marth hasn't been playing all that long

Vs. Peach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wsxhugfUPk&feature=channel_page
Comments - Fighting Peach on FD is annoying...I mean what do I do if they float just above pill-bouncing heights? I also realize I shouldn't try to ledgehop F-air.

Vs. Falcon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaiDwQgDEtM
Comments - Falcon's hard :( Is there anyway to DI out of D-throw -> knee?
 

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,047
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Give me some advice guys:


1) First off I know I F-air too much. It's partly because I used to play Luigi a lot but also some of those are supposed to be N-airs.

2) I don't really know how to use pills...I just throw them out and hope they mess up the other guy somewhat

3) These are all friendlies

Vs. Marth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCIK8nLiXvY
Comments - This Marth hasn't been playing all that long

Vs. Peach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wsxhugfUPk&feature=channel_page
Comments - Fighting Peach on FD is annoying...I mean what do I do if they float just above pill-bouncing heights? I also realize I shouldn't try to ledgehop F-air.

Vs. Falcon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaiDwQgDEtM
Comments - Falcon's hard :( Is there anyway to DI out of D-throw -> knee?
I watched the first one. I can't give you advice on it, because the marth needs a lot of work. If the marth knew how to CC, you would probably get *****, no offence.

The only thing I can tell you, is to use more u-air when he's above you and don't approach him from above.

I'll periodically edit the post and add stuff as I'm watching the other 2.

edit: you should cape peach's turnips and also use d-smash offensively more. Don't n-air peach when she's on the ground, otherwise you will get CC -> d-smashed by her. B-air is better offensively when they're on the ground because if they CC, it will knock them too far away to hit you with an attack.

If peach is too high to get hit by pills, use u-air coming from below. If you catch her with bad DI, then follow up. If she has good DI, then wait on the ground for her to try to attack you, then counter-attack with either u-tilt / u-smash / d-smash.

You can also use u-smash for kills when she is around 100%, when she is in the air. He is invincible on his head during the attack, so it will beat almost all of her moves when she's above you. If she's above you at a fairly low height, just use u-tilt. It will either launch her, or knock her away.

Edit2: You neglect one of the most important things with doc: YOU NEVER GRAB!! d-throw / up-throw -> free move (and maybe 2 or 3 more) is awesome for doc. You need to take advantage of when they are vaunerable with grabs. For example: when they are shielding in front of you, or teching, or side-stepping, you can wait and grab them.

Edit3: There is no way out of d-throw -> knee over 65%, if falcon does it properly. Not a lot of falcon players can do it though, so DI away and bank on them screwing up.

Also vs Falcon, use u-tilt / u-smash to stop his approaches (unless it's a knee coming at you).

Also, try Wavedashing out of shield to escape pressure, especially if they use a laggy attack.

Edgeguarding vs falcon, use b-air so that he won't be able to recover high. Then you can edgehog, or cape him when he's low enough.
 

Lixivium

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
2,689
I watched the first one. I can't give you advice on it, because the marth needs a lot of work. If the marth knew how to CC, you would probably get *****, no offence.
Which is why I made a note of that below the link.

You can also use u-smash for kills when she is around 100%, when she is in the air. He is invincible on his head during the attack, so it will beat almost all of her moves when she's above you. If she's above you at a fairly low height, just use u-tilt. It will either launch her, or knock her away.
I don't know what you're doing differently but Peach either waits out the Up-smash or just hits me out of it with any aerial besides Up-air.

Edit2: You neglect one of the most important things with doc: YOU NEVER GRAB!! d-thriw -> free move (and maybe 2 or 3 more) is awesome for doc.
I'm aware of this but Doc's grab just seems so horribly slow and short-ranged; it almost never works for me when I'm consciously trying to use it.
 

Acolyte

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
13
Location
Wayland, MA
I'm trying to learn that doc pillaring thing, with the uair to nair, but it doesnt work out all that well for me. Is it better to be facing toward or away when u do it, b/c sometimes when i face towards the bair doesnt hit, and when i face away the nair doesn't usually hit, b/c the bair creates too much space.

also i just learned that HMW is the wombo combo guy lol. funny stuff
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
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Messages
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It is bair -> nair, not uair -> nair.
Edit: looks more like a typo. you should be moving in the direction of your opponent after the bair. otherwise they'll likely escape.
 
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