Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[isthattim?]

Other Falcon stuff: I actually really like using dash attacks in general in this matchup,

idk, spamming dash attack vs falcon seems like a good way to get your **** stomped>knee>knee>knee>...

 

[metashinryu]

idk, spamming dash attack vs falcon seems like a good way to get your **** stomped>knee>knee>knee>...

i love doing that on spammers,easy as to just wait,wavedash back and knee.

or just run away and turnaround and raptor boost ya(needless to say you are on air,being a doc,against captain,you are dead...)

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

meh I think Doc has the advantage vs DK, though I only think this because I was beating Kwans DK in friendlies and then he went to fox and destroyed my doc.

Kwan is mad good

I remember playing him in pools for RoM. I had huge problems getting through his spacing, but I guess the pills got him I kinda felt bad though cause the time ran out on our final game

 

[Vulcan55]

How about this becomes my new "me-specific" typeface?

 

[Dogysamich]

so yea guys i was playing 18spikes on saturday and dk vs. doc is pretty even imo, mayb slight advantage to dk

Yeah, that what I'd say.

__

OTG f**kin fell into the trap, asked me about matchups, and posted it in that matchup discussion. The hell if Im actually going to sit around and argue them though. -rolls eyes-


For anybody who wants to see WHAT I THINK
It's not law, it's not "what it is", that's simply how I look at it.

doc can combo the crap outta DK tho

but i guess dk has that up B gimping once doc is off the stage

happy Dogy? lol

Not really.

Doc can actually combo the mess out of DK. Comboing the mess out of somebody doesnt exactly mean much specifically or else capfal would be better than he is, and samus would be worse than she is.

And for the record, DK cant exactly "combo the mess out of doc", but he's got a pretty reliable gimp opp. from cargo grab.

Kasumi's Doc Diary (heh)
5/25/09

Dear Diary,

Sometimes I feel like such a crappy Doctor Mario because I'm terrible at bair gimps, and can never get any grabs. But I get lucky real often with missed techs (fsmash KO) and stupid stuff (accidental fair KOs), so it's all good.

It happens.

My latest stupid thing: Dash Attack to Upsmash for a KO. I got a Falco at around 150% twice with it on Pokemon Stadium in one match. I know I never should have let Falco get to that percent, but that **** works if you ever really need it.

I was messin around with dash attack last week and found that it's actually hard as mess to DI. Knowing the right %s, you'd be surprised what all you can get on certain people.

I do dash attack -> d.smash alot. But you can get like; dash attack -> grab, dash attack -> f.smash (if spaced right), and other stuff.

I've actually been throwing fsmash and upsmash out a lot more recently. I'm not saying they're safe, but they're WAY safer than I ever thought they were. A Doc that upsmashes and rolls like I do confuses the hell out of people. I also throw out a lot of fairs. That's less safe but it's gotten me enough big rewards to keep it in my game. My spacing is good.

Unless your spacing and placement is "above and beyond", you outta get annhilated for alot of f.airs. It's just flat out too slow. i16, most people can tilt it on reaction.

More stupid stuff: Multiple dash attacks on Falcon. (not sure at what percent it's best for) I'm pretty sure they can double jump out but I've never had one expect me to dash attack under them four times consecutively. Works, but use sparingly or they'll figure it out quick.

Na, there's actually a % range where they'll fall back into dash-a's. It's funny. Same thing with fox and falco. Also works on the next tier of falling speed (sheik, dk, bowser, yoshi, ganon, roy, etc if im missing somebody)

Other Falcon stuff: I can say that full hop dairs really do seem to throw off their game. I full hop dair when I'm nowhere near them and they think twice about approaching. Then I double jump and full hop dair again. Something I'm still experimenting with is full jump caping a nair approach and fast falling into nair or something. Doubt it'll work. Also I actually really like using dash attacks in general in this matchup, but I don't have anything specific other than the above to say about that. Try it though.

It's amazing if people dont know the matchup. Any falcon that knows the matchup knows that can jump at the same level as you and hit you. That's why it's kinda hard. You CANT be on the same level as his nair unless you're n.airing or b.airing, and if you choose to do that, you're banking on him spacing n.air incorrectly. FH D.air works wonders, but it's not like "the answer" by any stretch.

As for FH Cape -> n.air, you could do that or u.air, or b.air. Keep that in mind.

UpB: I have been using UpB as an attack a LOT recently, and I'm pretty rarely punished for it. It's not Samus' UpB, but it's certainly not a bad one. Anyone tried it on a Falcon approach at higher percents?

Ok here's the story behind up+b. It works. Works fine. The thing is, it's punishable, meaning it's baitable. Im not telling you dont do it, I actually need to up+b more myself. But you have to be weary of people who empty hop into shield, baiting up+b's (which btw, if you want to bait a samus up+b, that's a good way to do it. They're more than likely not going to shieldgrab you)

Caping: I need to actually remember some of the cool things I've done with the cape, so I can post them. As I stated before, I cape a lot now that I know how huge the hitbox is.

Cape dashing, SH Cape -> DJ -nonsense-, SH Cape -> N.air, etc etc.

While it won't help any of you, I'm also proud to say I can finally cape people well under pressure, and after three years of playing this game competitively, I finally started crouch-canceling.

Congrats.

yeah its true,first thing i saw was purpleperson there XD

how do you put them?like,you can keep them there and they stay there every time you type(if that,how?)
or you have to colorfontisize them everytime?

I just choose mine off the top every time. Doesnt really bother me.

How about this becomes my new "me-specific" typeface?

No. XD

___

Black for quotes = *facepalm*. XD

 

[KAOSTAR]

So I played vulcan a few days ago in tourney lol. I dont like the doc marth matchup lol. I felt that I could almost lose.

m2 ***** and id much prefer a throw kill lol

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Sorry it took me so long to come back, guize. the vids still aren't up. I might end up just taping new ones or something. Anyone know of some cheap capture cards that work with vista laptops?

Dogy, there are a bunch of things Peach can do that aren't even right. Bair and usmash beat everything Kirby/most of the cast has clean. In tandem, obviously. Her usmash is madd broken, though.

I had a longer reply, but I losted it in the great toke of '09. Sorry, guize. D:

Oh, and the reason for 6-4 being bad in smash is because CPs can push a 6-4 to an 8-2. CPing in this game is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge, and a slight advantage can become a ridiculous one if there's a legal stage that allows it.

Good god, I ****ing hate tournaments.
I always get stuck with Person A, who I've never played before, and therefore lose, and right after, play Person B, who I already know is way better than me.
Meanwhile my brother always gets the bracket full of byes and people I know I could beat.

People keep telling me that I'm getting a lot better, yet I never actually do any better.

Well, with Person A, I can't give much advice, as I tend to actually do much better against OoSers than I do on home grounds. You'll just have to work on being less predictable/nervous, and reading the opponent better.

Person B, stop telling yourself that they're better than you. If you give up before the match has even started, then there's no way you'll ever beat them.

Some quick pointers.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

Wow, sounds like you've actually fought an okay Link before. He can combo into his kill moves pretty seamlessly after about 100%. Just avoid bomb set-ups and grabs, and you should be okay. Also, always DI attacks up vs link. If you survive, it would do you no good to get naired. **** *****.

i think link has the adv on doc

or maybe that's jus cuz i play germ

LoVo>>>Germ.

Doc has the slight advantage, I think. Very slight, though.

-(You're going to laugh at this) Actually wins the midrange game

I've actually been noticing that a LOT lately. I was going to post here and ask if anyone else felt that way.

Jab seriously has more range than fair? I knew it had madd range, but... really?

Shame his grab range is garbage.

so yea guys i was playing 18spikes on saturday and dk vs. doc is pretty even imo, mayb slight advantage to dk

I'd give Doc the advantage. DK's slow, has a bad shield, gets comboed easy, and doesn't combo back quite as well.

The shield is a HUGE problem v Doc. dair ***** shields, pills nom them, and his smashes aren't too shabby, either. Think about a doc pilling your shield, then dairing it. If they want, when they land, a dsmash is very likely to hit. They could also cape before landing (I think? I'm bsing right now) and THEN do it. Or cross up the dair, then cross up another/switch to dsmash when you think they're going to try and punish that.

I dunno, it's late, I'm tired, and I'm bsing most of it, but DK vs Doc is good for doc.

 

[Strong Badam]

I'd give Doc the advantage. DK's slow, has a bad shield, gets comboed easy, and doesn't combo back quite as well.

The shield is a HUGE problem v Doc. dair ***** shields, pills nom them, and his smashes aren't too shabby, either. Think about a doc pilling your shield, then dairing it. If they want, when they land, a dsmash is very likely to hit. They could also cape before landing (I think? I'm bsing right now) and THEN do it. Or cross up the dair, then cross up another/switch to dsmash when you think they're going to try and punish that.

I dunno, it's late, I'm tired, and I'm bsing most of it, but DK vs Doc is good for doc.

Uhh... Doc is a lot slower than DK.... I also didn't seem to have many shield problems against any Midwest Doc's (18s inc.), since I lightshield everything.

DK's bair beats pills. :O
idk wtf the rest of that **** is LOL

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

LoVo>>>Germ

hellllllll no^^

ur rite tho doc vs link is prolly slightly in docs advantage i think

but playin germ does make you think other wise(all that robert dollaz[Bob$] practice)

as for doc vs dk

i honestly think its even

but i could be wrong

the only dk i play is mexican so its hard to tell

but yea lol idk

 

[Strong Badam]

mexican's DK is beast man
it's better than ANY current DK (mainly cuz Bum retired & pkmvodka uses falcon... but no johns it's just about as good as Bum was in his prime)
any opinions you have on the doc DK matchup based on exp. w/ MEX's DK is legit

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

mexican's DK is beast man
it's better than ANY current DK (mainly cuz Bum retired & pkmvodka uses falcon... but no johns it's just about as good as Bum was in his prime)
any opinions you have on the doc DK matchup based on exp. w/ MEX's DK is legit

yea he's too good

he's why i have any DK experience haha

but yea keep it up doc mains!

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Uhh... Doc is a lot slower than DK.... I also didn't seem to have many shield problems against any Midwest Doc's (18s inc.), since I lightshield everything.

DK's bair beats pills. :O
idk wtf the rest of that **** is LOL

If you rush down with dk, you're gonna get combod. You should know that. It's not like you throw out one bair, cut through every single pill (well, that part happens), and suddenly you're in with Doc at disadvantage. Just the mix-ups from FH pill (dj pill, uair, dj uair, dj dair, cape, waveland retreat, waveland utilt/smash/jab/any attack, whatev) are enough to keep you from mindlessly bairing.

I dunno much about how well DK's lightshield holds up. I tend to just bair/cape when people lightshield, or if they have lower traction/grab range, I just dsmash/pill it. When someone lightshields, the game goes from breaking their shield to putting them in a bad position.

Which DK has plenty of.

Don't forget how easy it is to gimp him with Doc, either. Bair ***** his recovery.

Maybe midwest Docs went to a community college, and that's why you don't have much trouble with them?

I dunno, seems like they can both mess each other up, or at least force a change in playstyle. You forgot to mention how good ftilt is at shutting down Doc's pill game, too. Use it, srsly.

Then again, I've never played a truly top tier DK, so I might be missing some things.

It's cool playing Doc, because what works for you may not work against the character you're fighting 100% of the time. Don't get me wrong, I love what Sheik brings to the table, but you really don't have to know most of the cast to know how to win with her... even against good players.

hellllllll no^^

ur rite tho doc vs link is prolly slightly in docs advantage i think

but playin germ does make you think other wise(all that robert dollaz[Bob$] practice)

Yup yup.

I know how you feel. LoVo makes it seem like Link has a billion legit 0-deaths nowadays. Then you sit back and watch, and realize he's just REALLY good at tech-chasing, and that taking the up-b is always preferable to getting grabbed.

You should play him at Genesis.

Btw, is King any good still?

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

Yup yup.

I know how you feel. LoVo makes it seem like Link has a billion legit 0-deaths nowadays. Then you sit back and watch, and realize he's just REALLY good at tech-chasing, and that taking the up-b is always preferable to getting grabbed.

You should play him at Genesis.

Btw, is King any good still?

yea he is

he's just rusty

but despite his rust he's still decent

but once he gets it back, he'll be up there(i think lol)

 

[Dogysamich]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I could quote, but I'd have to do like, more combo quoting and **** all that noise right now.

___

Zeal:

1) If Peach's B.air and U.Smash are so good that they beat most of the casts moves (which, with the actual terms of priority, they dont), why does she have the matchups she does? My point in that being that they can be good moves all they want, they're not "broken" good.

2) Link, lol. Its kinda funny, I said my whole thing on Link going off of what I remember about the Link matchup. Lo-and-behold, Alternate275 came over to my house yesterday (with Alpha and Jx31) and I wound up playing some Doc vs Link. The one thing I didnt remember (or didnt know for some reason) is that getting in on Link is kinda hard. It's not impossible by any stretch of the imagination, but for the fact that he has mixup with his jab combo, a good u.tilt, and a longer nair, it's kinda hard to get in on him. It's like, you actually have to contest him mid range, you cant really just zip right in there (unless you play some dumb link who actually likes f.tilt and d.tilt. That's what I was remembering).

3) As for jab having more range than f.air, i was talkin about Docs. (the way you have it quoted makes it look like you're talking like, Doc's jab vs Link's f.air).
-Both ways I see it make sense.
[one_of_dogy's_off-the-wall_comparisons] I mean if you literally think about a boxer's jab vs any power punch they have, the jab is going to be longer. The power punch has to be more compact and closer, that's where the power comes from. This is "technically" excluding a straight punch, but even then the strongest range of the straight isnt the complete end of it[/one_of_dogy's_off-the-wall_comparisons]
-If you just look at the animation is also makes sense for Doc's jab to be longer than stuff, because he actually takes a step forward when he jabs. This is different from like, Ganon's jab, who keeps his feet planted. (Subtle details, yeah yeah.)

4) DK vs Doc.
a) DK is faster than Doc. The only REAL speed advantage Doc has over DK is wavedash distance. That's not exactly the greatest thing to have an advantage over.
b)Running speed, DK runs faster than Doc, that's a fact.
C)Walking speed, *looks at the stat list*, unless im mistaken, DK is in the tier where he can walk away from Doc. (Unless Im mistaken, Sheik can walk away from anything Doc does. DK accels slower on his walk than Sheik, so that just means he has to start earlier or be further out on Doc's arc) Being able to walk away is pretty important, especially for a character with long reaching tilts and a long reaching f.smash. (Great punishment)
d)Yeah, DK's shield sucks. Like Strong said, though; any DK player worth their weight is going to just lightshield most things anyway; probably shield + angle anything that looks worth trying to shieldgrabbing. Taking a hit and getting a small shield isnt going to kill DK, it's not like he has a hard time keeping DOC out of all people. XD

Kaostar: .... what? XD
Strong: DK Experience. I got my DK experience playing though DKC. XD (I have played some good DKs though)
HMW: You hypocrite. Here you are saying "keep it up doc mains", but I see you copin out vs shroomed and goin falco. MANGO JR! JK


____


And on a side note: i still absolutely hate how cape works in melee. Why the **** cant the **** thing flip momentum? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

 

[otg]

If cape could flip momentum... omg. ... just omfg.

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

hmw: you Hypocrite. Here You Are Saying "keep It Up Doc Mains", But I See You Copin Out Vs Shroomed And Goin Falco. Mango Jr! Jk

LOL

******* Aint Splittin Son!

 

[Kasumi]

Yeah Doc boards. I love you guys. So I'm gonna use dash attacks less on Falcon.

It's amazing if people dont know the matchup. Any falcon that knows the matchup knows that can jump at the same level as you and hit you. That's why it's kinda hard. You CANT be on the same level as his nair unless you're n.airing or b.airing, and if you choose to do that, you're banking on him spacing n.air incorrectly. FH D.air works wonders, but it's not like "the answer" by any stretch.

As for FH Cape -> n.air, you could do that or u.air, or b.air. Keep that in mind.

That's all good to know, I'll keep the cape>nair/uair option in mind. It actually never even occurred to me that they can full hop their approach too. Wow, that scares me. : (

As for upB: I don't UpB out of shield as I usually find I have better options. I use at times I can't remember. Since my first "Doc Diary" was a success I think I'm just gonna take notes after every match so I can post much more specific things. I think that'd help more people than me as well since you guys can tell me which things I do are REALLY bad ideas. I also need to get some videos recorded so guys can see how lucky I get.

(Random fact: When my blue text got quoted it changed the color of the word "Quote:" that goes above the quote)

Also

And on a side note: i still absolutely hate how cape works in melee. Why the **** cant the **** thing flip momentum? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

This is probably a joke, but I'll respond anyway. I'm willing to bet the developers thought of this, and quickly realized it was a bad idea. I say this because the cape flips the momentum of SOME things (Luigi's missile), but not others. If the cape flipped momentum of everything, it would be the answer to almost EVERYTHING! As the cape works now you can cape something and still get hit. If it flipped momentum I could just cape every fast approach in good confidence I would NEVER get it. Fox approaches with running nair? Cape him and he'll be going the other direction with no chance to hit you. (As opposed to slowed down and still coming toward you) You could cape Yoshi's second jump with a lot more confidence that it'd work. It'd destroy Falcon's recovery as it wouldn't allow him to use the fact that Falcon grabs the stage both ways against it. (Unless he was recovering straight up). As COOL as all this would be, I don't think it'd be a very well designed move if this were true.

All in all, thank you Doc boards, and I'll probably be back with some more gameplay notes and things I've tried.

Edit: Holy... Two posts slipped in before I made this. Doc boards are mad active.

 

[otg]

Uh... so Waffles for President? Way to beast the crap out of that tournament bro, and you beat bobby himself.

*lazily updates video thread*

 

[Dogysamich]

-stuff about the cape-

Somebody hasnt played brawl at all. XD

Seriously, if Doc/Mario's cape worked like Mario's does in brawl, oohhwwee. U.air juggle into cape would **** sooooooooooo bad.

-sigh-
Now im starting to sound like one of those scrubby create-a-supercharacter fanboys.

 

[Vulcan55]

So yeah.
I pretty much beasted KAOS's Marf (Not really).
I'm pro at stage counter-picking.
Green Greens ftw!
(Too bad Corneria was banned. Since when is GG > Corneria? Corneria's always been legal. ****ing Oregon. ****ing timmy and tommy controlling everything)

 

[Dogysamich]

So im over here going through HMW and Shroomed Show, and I definitely just read a comment that says.

"Maybe Brandon's (HMW) Doc can find the cure for swine flu."

..... man I quit, im going to play GGAC. with my fat out of shape May XD

-falls out of chair laughing-

You guys outta check these out, it's pretty good. Especially since somebody who's name starts with an O and ends with a TG doesnt like updating that special page where matches periodically appear.

I MEAN.

>.> <.<

 

[Stos]

So im over here going through HMW and Shroomed Show, and I definitely just read a comment that says.

"Maybe Brandon's (HMW) Doc can find the cure for swine flu."

..... man I quit, im going to play GGAC. with my fat out of shape May XD

-falls out of chair laughing-

You guys outta check these out, it's pretty good. Especially since somebody who's name starts with an O and ends with a TG doesnt like updating that special page where matches periodically appear.

I MEAN.

>.> <.<

LOL yeah i saw that too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKUvL7JTTMM&feature=channel_page

Edit: have you guys thought about trying to break Falcos laser game by trying to like baseball slidin that hoe?
just came to my to me recently.. i dont really know if its a good idea though..

 

[KirbyKaze]

You guys outta check these out, it's pretty good. Especially since somebody who's name starts with an O and ends with a TG doesnt like updating that special page where matches periodically appear.

I MEAN.

>.> <.<

subtle as a train-wreck

 

[KAOSTAR]

So yeah.
I pretty much beasted KAOS's Marf (Not really).
I'm pro at stage counter-picking.
Green Greens ftw!
(Too bad Corneria was banned. Since when is GG > Corneria? Corneria's always been legal. ****ing Oregon. ****ing timmy and tommy controlling everything)

You still lost both rounds lol.

and I hate marth on GG. N**ga caint move

 

[Dogysamich]

hey you, quit it with the censor dodging.
(im not kidding) O_O

 

[KAOSTAR]

my b, wont happen again

I guess that makes up for one time I got an actual infraction for saying funk[by the bowser]. in no way is that a censored word lol

 

[unknown522]

LOL yeah i saw that too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKUvL7JTTMM&feature=channel_page

Edit: have you guys thought about trying to break Falcos laser game by trying to like baseball slidin that hoe?
just came to my to me recently.. i dont really know if its a good idea though..

that won't work. The only way to break falco's laser game (aside from power shielding) is to cape the first laser shot before it hits you, or your shield. The cape is too slow in between to disrupt falco once he starts. If you dash attack falco, he will most likely CC (falco always tries to shine, so they may not intentionally CC), punish out of shield, or just **** you in between the lag after using the dash attack. It's one of my favorite moves, but it sucks ***.

That matchup is horrible anyway. Just do the ditto or go marth.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

1) Try beating Peach’s usmash with ANY aerial move in the game. EVER. Seriously, the move just ***** that hard. If you can find one aerial that beats it clean, I would LOVE to see it. No, seriously, take your time. Have fun spacing Marth’s fairs perfectly, and make sure you time them to hit her when the hoe isn’t invincible, because it’s no cakewalk. Of course, ***gy characters like Fox, it can be baited and punished. But if you suspect some bullocks like that, dtilt is great, because it pulls her just so slightly out of range of stuff like that, leads to combos, and doesn’t get punished (as hard, anyway).

Sticky-walk dash attack kinda *****, too. Or sticky-walk>shield>OoS dsmash/nair/grab. DJC crap is good, too.

You wanna know why her match-ups aren’t AMAZING?

A) She gets ***** by camping. Like, Jiggz, only worse. You can seriously beat almost any Peach by picking Fox and retreating shl/dshl until kill percents. The good ones will **** you when you decide to finally try to get in on her, assuming you mess up. Link ***** her, Y.Link is no fun, Fox is undoubtedly her worst match-up in my mind, Marth is actually fun if you use sticky-walking to get around fair bs, since he has to approach you (kinda), but Sheik is just bad. Falco is actually a pretty easy match-up, Peach can **** Falcon, but he can do the same. Jiggz is really annoying, though, since she can bair camp you and there’s not much you can really do about it.

B) No, seriously, just camp her. That’s why I dropped her. CO caught on to it, and suddenly the ONLY fun match-ups were against Marf, Falco, and low-tiers. Falcon isn’t fun because of HOW gay you have to play against him. Especially with how flashy that ******* can be. Peach is patient rushdown. You take your time getting in, but once you do, you milk it for all it’s worth.

2) Yeaaaaaah, he has a LOT of **** flying. Pay attention to his spam patterns. All Links have ‘em. Most Link players like to bomb pull, then angle a boomerang upward/bank it off the ground upward, then throw the bomb horizontal. What I like to do is jump around like a moron while he’s pulling bombs, throw a FH pill at him, then waveland behind it and shield to see how he reacts the first time or two. If they throw the bomb, it’s normally safe to assume that in a bad situation, they’ll ditch the bomb at all costs. So bait the bomb, cape it, and get in on that *****.

Pay attention to up-b patterns, too, and bait that **** like it’s an upper. Seriously, just stop shield pressure randomly, ESPECIALLY if it looks like you’re going for a tick throw from behind. Free combo, fsmash, whatever. :D!

I can seriously give people so much dirt on Link and his BS. I'd love to say Link is misrepresented on the tier list, but it's just that he has the tools to deal with a lot of situations, given a good player.

Now LUIGI! That ****er is high tier. **** anyone who says different.

3) Alrighty. I’m not SUPER familiar with the match-up. Like I said, we have some people that can play DK, but not really that many that rock it.

So here’s a question:

What can you do when someone just rolls away from your jab set-ups? I mean characters like CF and ****, where they don’t lag enough to just tech-chase them with doc’s crappy grab range. Boost grabbing SOMETIMES gets close enough, but I hafta be psychic, and dsmash is more reliable anyway. Anything you can do to make them afraid to roll away? Or is that how you beat Doc’s mix-ups? Just roll away. D:

So yeah.
I pretty much beasted KAOS's Marf (Not really).
I'm pro at stage counter-picking.
Green Greens ftw!
(Too bad Corneria was banned. Since when is GG > Corneria? Corneria's always been legal. ****ing Oregon. ****ing timmy and tommy controlling everything)

OMFG!

AHAHAHAHAHAHHAH!

I'M SO SORRY YOU LIVE IN THAT CRAP-LOUSY STATE!

Why do you guys put up with tommy's BS? Seriously. He talks like he's hot ****, but he's nothing. Come to CO for a week or two. We'll make it so you never lose to their sorry ***** in Melee. Can't make promises about Brawl, that game is wack as ****.

Oh man, I can't wait to **** tommy at genesis. $50 MM vs me with his Pichu? ***** is gonna back down before I get a chance to take his money, I know it.

EDIT:

Edit: have you guys thought about trying to break Falcos laser game by trying to like baseball slidin that hoe?
just came to my to me recently.. i dont really know if its a good idea though..

Only works if they do it high enough that you could crouch it. But yeah, I've ****ed around with it some. Works better when you're high. Everything does.

On life and ****, I mean.

that won't work. The only way to break falco's laser game (aside from power shielding) is to cape the first laser shot before it hits you, or your shield. The cape is too slow in between to disrupt falco once he starts. If you dash attack falco, he will most likely CC (falco always tries to shine, so they may not intentionally CC), punish out of shield, or just **** you in between the lag after using the dash attack. It's one of my favorite moves, but it sucks ***.

That matchup is horrible anyway. Just do the ditto or go marth.

Just dsmash the hoebag if he CCs a lot. Or, ya know, grab. It beats CC! Mix-ups, mangz. Learn them. Hell, fsmash a CC happy hoe. Seriously, why do smashers think so little nowadays? You kids and your technicals.

Why not practice the technical that matters? It's not THAT hard to PS. All you need to do is cape one laser and power-shield the second, and all but the great Falcos will completely ditch lasers. ESPECIALLY if you turn that PS into a grab combo. Seriously, scares the hell out of him.

Still, that dair ***** your recovery TOO hard.

EDIT 2:

Wow... I should like... write essays or some **** about smash. They could be all misinformed and stuff, and the players could ride my jock for sharing so much.

OHWAIT, THiS iSN'T bRAWL!

SUPER EDIT!:

Almost forgot something.

Good Link players use bomb dropping to make for stupid set-ups/combos vs floatier characters (i.e. - you!). Be careful about it. It pretty much sets up for a free aerial.

 

[Strong Badam]

powershielding lasers = victory
like seriously... that's over 70% of the mid/low tier metagame vs. falco.

and yeah... young/links always love to bomb-drop -> stuff (usually dair)... at least when I'm recovering. I've had slight success with smash DIing the bomb outward and then spacing my recovery to not get hit.
always better not to get hit by the bomb in the first place tho.

 

[Vulcan55]

I don't technically live in Oregon, though I might as well. WA is tight.
The twins don't even play Melee anymore (I played whichever one is the Kirby player in a few friendlies a while ago and stomped on his face), yet they see fit to make the rules for it. They were talking about making YS and FoD counterpick at this last one.
And, as I might have already said, they banned Corneria, but kept GG legal.

 

[Dogysamich]

Quote combos. Awwww yeah.

Edit: have you guys thought about trying to break Falcos laser game by trying to like baseball slidin that hoe?
just came to my to me recently.. i dont really know if its a good idea though..

that won't work. The only way to break falco's laser game (aside from power shielding) is to cape the first laser shot before it hits you, or your shield. The cape is too slow in between to disrupt falco once he starts. If you dash attack falco, he will most likely CC (falco always tries to shine, so they may not intentionally CC), punish out of shield, or just **** you in between the lag after using the dash attack. It's one of my favorite moves, but it sucks ***.

Here's the thing; it works but it's not that great. The main problem with it is how low Doc (or Mario) goes, more specifically how low they DONT go.

The dash-a is as low as doc's crouch (I havent cared to check all the details, but I think it's as low as Doc's crouch at the max height.)

To get under a laser Falco has to basically do a real sloppy SHFFB, and im under the general assumption that they'll shoot low, if not perfect, ones. Calling them doing SHB (high ones) is pretty hard to do, imo.

That matchup is horrible anyway. Just do the ditto or go marth.

Hmm. A character that can actually combat lasers, has a chaingrab, fairly good tech chases (especially on FFers), fairly good setups, and has above average setup, and it's a horrible matchup?

*looks around*

-Peach-

..... *thinks of peach's d.tilt* .... no wonder Mike G f**king gets that sh*t to land so much. Dirty n**ger. XD

And lets clear up why upsmash is good, but why it's not broken.

(I played whichever one is the Kirby player in a few friendlies a while ago and stomped on his face)

T!mmy.

_____________________

ZULUUUUUUUUU!

XD

 

[InterimOfZeal]

powershielding lasers = victory
like seriously... that's over 70% of the mid/low tier metagame vs. falco.

and yeah... young/links always love to bomb-drop -> stuff (usually dair)... at least when I'm recovering. I've had slight success with smash DIing the bomb outward and then spacing my recovery to not get hit.
always better not to get hit by the bomb in the first place tho.

For edgeguarding? You're fighting scrub links, then. Link's nair is the **** for edgeguarding. Like... yeah, he can bomb drop to seal more options off, but then you can SDI>tech bair or something, shutting off his edgeguard attempts. Anything he can't nair, he up-bs, and you WILL die from that.

I don't technically live in Oregon, though I might as well. WA is tight.
The twins don't even play Melee anymore (I played whichever one is the Kirby player in a few friendlies a while ago and stomped on his face), yet they see fit to make the rules for it. They were talking about making YS and FoD counterpick at this last one.
And, as I might have already said, they banned Corneria, but kept GG legal.

So wait... WA... the state that's ACTUALLY good, lets timmy and tommy decide ****?

WHY?!?

Have you seen how horrendous tommy's hair/fashion sense/omg personal attacks is?

No, seriously though, why not just boycott their **** and start your own series? Talk to Cliche. He's a CO brawler that moved up there. I'm sure he'd be happy to help you figure out running tournaments and shiz. Just mention the NVGA and he'll be on that **** in a second.

Why did they ban Corneria anyway?

Anything said after this is for DOGYYYYYYYYSAAMICH!

Peach’s dtilt is amazing. You can use it to PUNISH Sheik’s ftilt. Like, seriously. Tight. Not on reaction, though. D:

You use the usmash when they’re already committing. It’s the same idea behind fsmashing CF’s nair. He just did a dash SH, and for Peach, it doesn’t matter what aerial he does. Stick usmash out, get free combo/cg. It’s not unbearably fast, but it’s enough to shut down any predictable players, and some good ones that aren’t familiar with just HOW invincible the move is. No one should ever have a chance to react to it (I can reactively 6p BBU with Zappa, so I know that reaction times should always be considered), since they should already be committed. It’s a counter, not an attack.

The point is that Peach NEVER should have to approach Kirby. She’s got a solid defense. Of course, she can always djc bairs to dodge the tilts and get in. Or just trade hits. It’s not like Kirby is going to kill her first.

Stay away from the edge and make him come to you. There, you’ve beaten Kirby with Peach.

Smash’s camping is different from traditional fighter camping, much like 6-4 can actually be really bad in smash but is very readily winnable in any other fighter.

So, is there ANY way I can punish someone who ALWAYS rolls away after blocking a jab? Particularly with CF? I just can’t seem to get there in time most times. Do I just use it to set up pill pressure and shiz?

It really helps if you think of his upb as a burst/upper. Bait that ****, then punish. Too bad it doesn’t put him into cr.CH state. That would make for raaaaaaaaape. Lololol

Okay, aside from Marth, who BEATS Luigi? I don’t mean can almost go even with him, I mean beats. He combo breaks, combos the hell out of everyone, can CC decently, has GREAT mobility once the Luigi player learns how to vary WD distance, and can escape virtually any pressure strings by just light-shielding. Get too close when you’re pressuring the front of his shield? SHORYUKEN!

And let’s not forget the bs of platform dropped nair. It’s like FCing, seriously. Not as much range and mobility while he’s doing it, but it serves its purpose. I mean, c’mon, he can get legit combos into SHORYUKEN at virtually any percent against FFers that kill on YS/BF, no problem. Even when he can’t do that, he can normally combo into dair/fair/bair/nair/utilt/whatever else he wants. And his usmash is too **** good. I have no idea why, either.

His closest to even match after the final 5 is Ganon/Link. I can’t think of another character that can really punish Luigi/outspace him quite as well as them. The best anyone else can hope to do is camp the end of his wd distance, so he has no easy means of getting to you. But that's only a temp fix. D:

Anything you can give me vs Luigi, I WILL try out for you (eventually). Now that ka-master is moving to Hawaii, the best Luigi in the continental U.S. has to be SNSG. No one else moves like him, thinks like him, etc.

Btw, you goin’ to Genesis?

 

[KirbyKaze]

It's funny because Pakman and a bunch of other Luigi's I've asked about it all agree that Falco and Sheik are gayer than Marth to him.

But I don't know Luigi beyond that Sheik beats him really hard.

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

Edit: have you guys thought about trying to break Falcos laser game by trying to like baseball slidin that hoe?
just came to my to me recently.. i dont really know if its a good idea though..

dash attack is cool, but if you do it directly under the lasers u mite land next to them and get combo'd

if u make it to where u pass them tho it should be legit (i think?)

try to cape the laser and pill rite after

or use full hop pills to get towards him

or if ur close n-air after a laser

u can also use platforms to throw pills or come down with an aireal or somethin

 

[Vulcan55]

So wait... WA... the state that's ACTUALLY good, lets timmy and tommy decide ****?

It was an OR tourney.
I live here.

 

[metashinryu]

dthrow dair fsmash on falco...HATE

 

[Shroomed]

solution to falco:

fox or marth
man doc makes me cry sometimes
Germ >>> any link btw

quick question, does anyone else prefer mario v sheik over doc v sheik?
it seems like doc gets comboed easier by sheik

and mario does have the dthrow fsmash on her at a much much higher percent
it's actually a guaranteed kill on most stages at certain percents

and if she doesnt DI to the side she can eat an upsmash

 

[Vulcan55]

D-throw > F-Smash works on plenty of people provided they don't DI. Or sometimes, even if they do.

 

[KirbyKaze]

solution to falco:

fox or marth

I've never really figured out if Falco is bad for Doc or not.

I keep hearing people say "AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH ****" and then other people say "naw man it's aight" and then other people say "AHHHHHHHHHHHH I'M CONFUSED" and I'm one of the confused ones.

 

[JPOBS]

falco doc isnt that bad, but falco has the advtage

he's going to hit you more than you hit him though so its important to take advantage of the few hits you get and capatilize on his weak recovery and try to gimp him hella hard