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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
- Start date
zeal: im not ignoring your post, it's just combating a second wall of text gets tiring after a while. Ima catch it sooner or later
jpobs: what kinda jacked up logic. "Falco hits Doc more". Man, everybody hits ganon more than he hits them, therefore he's got disadvantage all day long. Even pichu can take him!
jpobs: what kinda jacked up logic. "Falco hits Doc more". Man, everybody hits ganon more than he hits them, therefore he's got disadvantage all day long. Even pichu can take him!
otg
Smash Master
I think Doc v. Falco might be a lil easier than Doc v. Fox. It's a lot easier to gimp Falco, so he dies at a lot lower %'s. If you can deal with lasers than this matchup becomes much easier
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Yes, but Falco also does very good things with his hits.
So if he's hitting Doc more, and consistently doing very good things with his hits, that's a problem.
I mean, Pichu can hit someone 17 times and do 60%. Someone can hit him twice and kill him. But Pichu's not doing very good things with his hits. Whereas if someone like Sheik hits you 17 times, you probably lost.
Shroomed
Smash Master
i dont like falco much, but maybe that's because i suck at caping at good times
@KK: pichu's hit's do a ton, vs ffers.
re: falco-doc. I haven't played many good falcos, but I haven't had trouble with the ones I've played. After you get in (which is right outside his shine), you're good. Don't stay in your shield, and really only cape if you *have* to--being on a different plane as his lazers is much better option.
If he's spamming lazers quickly, remember that you can time a cape to reflect 2 at once (I swear that I reflected 3 from a ledge hop double lazer and grounded lazer right after, but I could be wrong). Hoever, because of how easy it is for them to do empty lazers, or shoot above your head, don't rely too much on the cape, especially as they close in.
Once you get a grab, DO something with it. You can CG if you want, and won't mess up. You can techchase, again, as long as you don't mess up. Or you can do those crazy fast-faller combos, as long as you don't mess up. Get the point? Once you've grabbed, do damage and get them off the edge. Anything else is just a waste, really. And the funny thing is none of the options are actually "hard," they just take some practice, like everything else in the game does.
re: falco-doc. I haven't played many good falcos, but I haven't had trouble with the ones I've played. After you get in (which is right outside his shine), you're good. Don't stay in your shield, and really only cape if you *have* to--being on a different plane as his lazers is much better option.
If he's spamming lazers quickly, remember that you can time a cape to reflect 2 at once (I swear that I reflected 3 from a ledge hop double lazer and grounded lazer right after, but I could be wrong). Hoever, because of how easy it is for them to do empty lazers, or shoot above your head, don't rely too much on the cape, especially as they close in.
Once you get a grab, DO something with it. You can CG if you want, and won't mess up. You can techchase, again, as long as you don't mess up. Or you can do those crazy fast-faller combos, as long as you don't mess up. Get the point? Once you've grabbed, do damage and get them off the edge. Anything else is just a waste, really. And the funny thing is none of the options are actually "hard," they just take some practice, like everything else in the game does.
HomeMadeWaffles
Smash Lord
to approach falco switch how you stop the lasers
cape/pill low/pill high
then approach from there
more than anything to if you really wanna beat falcos
edgeguards son!, thats where all the marbles lie yo
you get the edgeguards vs falco its done
be careful how you recover back on stage (tornado near the stage is an automatic death to me at least)
use platforms if you have to so you wont get a fistful of lead
another good thing is to read techs
if they tech you can dash attack then d/f smash, or regrab and follow it up
and some falcos on the ledge know your gonna ftilt so theyll forward b you in the head hahhaa
if you think theyre going to do that
jus n-air jab and theyll fall low for a cape
and yea doc mains
u got this!
long a$$ post huh? (to me anyway hahahaha)
cape/pill low/pill high
then approach from there
more than anything to if you really wanna beat falcos
edgeguards son!, thats where all the marbles lie yo
you get the edgeguards vs falco its done
be careful how you recover back on stage (tornado near the stage is an automatic death to me at least)
use platforms if you have to so you wont get a fistful of lead
another good thing is to read techs
if they tech you can dash attack then d/f smash, or regrab and follow it up
and some falcos on the ledge know your gonna ftilt so theyll forward b you in the head hahhaa
if you think theyre going to do that
jus n-air jab and theyll fall low for a cape
and yea doc mains
u got this!
long a$$ post huh? (to me anyway hahahaha)
Ya lil short a*s post. Only feels like cause you tryin to type mango style. 
DROP A WALL OF TEXT AND GET AT ME SIR. XD
(zeal im still comin for you and your wall, dont think ima let it go)
DROP A WALL OF TEXT AND GET AT ME SIR. XD
(zeal im still comin for you and your wall, dont think ima let it go)
Christopher Rodriguez
The illest Project M Bowser
Gotta hate those high illusions
good advice though, I never thought of nairing it, let alone jabbing after.
otg
Smash Master
Waffles hit it on the head. I find Nair is the best solution against Falco when he's grabbed the ledge. You catch them with ftilt enough, and they will start illusioning in different ways to catch you off guard. Nair beats that out free.
Shroomed
Smash Master
i like jumping out and nairing before their illusion starts
if i can predict the jump, which isnt that hard seeing as their scared to go low because of cape
if i can predict the jump, which isnt that hard seeing as their scared to go low because of cape
anthony000
Smash Journeyman
I prefer bair personally. Yay for Doc gimping spacies talk
Aight Zeal, it's that time.
Ok. First and foremost, f**k this kirby vs peach arguement. XD This is exactly why Im not going to waste my time trying to help out with the matchup thread in melee discussion. There's no way in hell I can convince you kirby has any real chance against Peach. I'm not bashing you in any shape, form, or fashing; because you've more-than-likely never seen a good kirby. (Hell, i havent seen a good kirby, just my nonsense). So there's no way I can REALLY convince you of it. It's just a back-and-forth arguement.
Smash's camping ISNT different from "traditional" camping, it's just worded differently because pretty much EVERYTHING thing is worded differently in smash. For what people say Fox does to win, run and shoot lasers; every other community calls that runaway, because that's what it is. That's not to say some people dont ACTUALLY do camping, which is actually using their lead to FORCE somebody to come through their defense. Both are 2 different strats, but for some reason it's all the same around here. It's not a big deal or anything, just something funny I noticed a long time ago.
I always think it's funny how smash really parallels 2D fighters, but a majority of the smash community not only doesnt see it, but swears up and down "no, we can turn around when we want to and we have platforms, we're SOOOOO much different and so much harder than they are."
**Punishing rolling away**
Like, the actual roll away, there's not too much you can do. You can call it and follow behind them (WD or ID, ID obviously being better since it's not a commitment), but you cant specifically follow it. You can also FH pill to continue to keep the advantage over them (although it becomes slight at that point), you'd really be looking to predict what happens after the pill in that situation. Not much you can do, but yeah, it's not like they can just roll away for free if you call it.
**
Link up+b as a burst, that was just a funny thought I had. And hell yeah you bait up+b. ****'s so punishable.
Who beats Luigi? Sheik. I know alot of Luigi players who SAY they dont like playing ganon's, I dont really know much about it. Im going to sound ******** when I say this, but I think kirby can actually do pretty well against luigi. Luigi cant grab a crouching kirby, nor can he ever shinryuken him. (He'll just get the abe lincoln. XD) So the whole "you cant land in front of luigi" thing, yeah kirby doesnt care much about it. And you'd actually be surprised what all of luigi's stuff kirby can duck. It's pretty hilarious how much the height difference between luigi and mario messes luigi up. This is all straight theory fighter, though. I've NEVER played a good luigi with kirby (yet)
Um, luigi can get punished for alot of his stuff, it's just the when and where. And he actually can be comboed, it's just you have to actually know when to do it. Everybody gets upset at luigi because when you combo him at the wrong percent and he nairs, it turns into his combo. FFS go watch HMW's new vids. He does the exact same thing a luigi would do, n.air and u.air out of combos done at the wrong percent. The only different is he's playing Doc so that knocks people away.
As for genesis, i'll have to fall into a ridiculous amount of money quick to go. I dont really care to, I cant justify going all the way across the country for melee. Especially when it would be easier and more fun for me to wait a week and go to EVO.
Ok. First and foremost, f**k this kirby vs peach arguement. XD This is exactly why Im not going to waste my time trying to help out with the matchup thread in melee discussion. There's no way in hell I can convince you kirby has any real chance against Peach. I'm not bashing you in any shape, form, or fashing; because you've more-than-likely never seen a good kirby. (Hell, i havent seen a good kirby, just my nonsense). So there's no way I can REALLY convince you of it. It's just a back-and-forth arguement.
Smash's camping ISNT different from "traditional" camping, it's just worded differently because pretty much EVERYTHING thing is worded differently in smash. For what people say Fox does to win, run and shoot lasers; every other community calls that runaway, because that's what it is. That's not to say some people dont ACTUALLY do camping, which is actually using their lead to FORCE somebody to come through their defense. Both are 2 different strats, but for some reason it's all the same around here. It's not a big deal or anything, just something funny I noticed a long time ago.
I always think it's funny how smash really parallels 2D fighters, but a majority of the smash community not only doesnt see it, but swears up and down "no, we can turn around when we want to and we have platforms, we're SOOOOO much different and so much harder than they are."
**Punishing rolling away**
Like, the actual roll away, there's not too much you can do. You can call it and follow behind them (WD or ID, ID obviously being better since it's not a commitment), but you cant specifically follow it. You can also FH pill to continue to keep the advantage over them (although it becomes slight at that point), you'd really be looking to predict what happens after the pill in that situation. Not much you can do, but yeah, it's not like they can just roll away for free if you call it.
**
Link up+b as a burst, that was just a funny thought I had. And hell yeah you bait up+b. ****'s so punishable.
Who beats Luigi? Sheik. I know alot of Luigi players who SAY they dont like playing ganon's, I dont really know much about it. Im going to sound ******** when I say this, but I think kirby can actually do pretty well against luigi. Luigi cant grab a crouching kirby, nor can he ever shinryuken him. (He'll just get the abe lincoln. XD) So the whole "you cant land in front of luigi" thing, yeah kirby doesnt care much about it. And you'd actually be surprised what all of luigi's stuff kirby can duck. It's pretty hilarious how much the height difference between luigi and mario messes luigi up. This is all straight theory fighter, though. I've NEVER played a good luigi with kirby (yet)
Um, luigi can get punished for alot of his stuff, it's just the when and where. And he actually can be comboed, it's just you have to actually know when to do it. Everybody gets upset at luigi because when you combo him at the wrong percent and he nairs, it turns into his combo. FFS go watch HMW's new vids. He does the exact same thing a luigi would do, n.air and u.air out of combos done at the wrong percent. The only different is he's playing Doc so that knocks people away.
As for genesis, i'll have to fall into a ridiculous amount of money quick to go. I dont really care to, I cant justify going all the way across the country for melee. Especially when it would be easier and more fun for me to wait a week and go to EVO.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
theres no melee at EVO 0_o
News flash: I play more then melee. I mean I'll pretend I dont make MAY JOKES all the time.
And that's one reason why I cant really justify going to Genesis. Traveling across the nation for one game, Melee to be specific. -rolls eyes-
Or I could go almost as far for 2 games I play (one of wish i like infinitely more than melee), and a total of 7 i'm interested in. And im only talking about the main event games.
And that's one reason why I cant really justify going to Genesis. Traveling across the nation for one game, Melee to be specific. -rolls eyes-
Or I could go almost as far for 2 games I play (one of wish i like infinitely more than melee), and a total of 7 i'm interested in. And im only talking about the main event games.
anthony000
Smash Journeyman
Dogy, sometimes I really wonder why you play Melee
Well, it was the first thing I got into competitively, and did surprisingly well at it. (My first tourney was MLG Orlando, 2nd seed in pools by a landslide, then was literally 1 hit away from day 2 pro brackets).
Then, I've met a lot of kool people in melee. Realistically, if it wasnt for melee, I probably wouldnt have made it through college. I absolutely hated pretty much everybody at my school except for the few people I played smash with there (like, 5 total?). So after a week or so of putting up with *******, I had aboslutely no problems hopping in the car by myself and making a 7+ hour round trip to get my *** whooped in some tourney. I have a lot more in common with smashers (and gamers in general) than most people. That's just how it goes.
Outside of that, as much as I gripe about this, that, and the other with the game, melee actually has characters I like playing (Doc, Kirby, Falco, a few other characters I play), that's one big draw to playing games period. As much as I want to be, I'm not a Pro Gamer (by definition), but I'm also not so far in the hole that I have to play a game AND win to get my next meal. With that being said, if I cant enjoy the game for whatever reason, there's no point in playing it. That's one reason why I cant get into MvC2, because Jill is, for the most part, an unplayable character. Same thing when I look at T5DR; I see Xiaoyu, and playing here would be settling (although I actually do like HOW she plays). My point is that as dumb assome alot of the things are in melee, there still is SOME enjoyment in it. It's not like I'm specifically in it for the money (melee would be the wrong place to be if that were the case)
Beyond that, it's REALLY the only game I know atm. It's mostly because I cant/dont go out and train up in other games. Melee's the only game that I REALLY know matchups. Everything else I play, I generally know my character and a few things here and there. Hardly enough to compete for real. Even though I'm back at home, training is 2 hours away from me, and it's hard to motivate myself to go do that when money stays tight. (My bum *** needs to get a job).
___
on an unrelated sidenote
Im leaving to go to e3 2morrow. (Yes, e3).
You n**gas better not f**k up and have the entire staff shack in here cuffin you guys. I'm gunna try to poke my head in every once in a while to shove it in your face
.
But yeah, you'll have a week where you (probably) wont see very much of me.
Then, I've met a lot of kool people in melee. Realistically, if it wasnt for melee, I probably wouldnt have made it through college. I absolutely hated pretty much everybody at my school except for the few people I played smash with there (like, 5 total?). So after a week or so of putting up with *******, I had aboslutely no problems hopping in the car by myself and making a 7+ hour round trip to get my *** whooped in some tourney. I have a lot more in common with smashers (and gamers in general) than most people. That's just how it goes.
Outside of that, as much as I gripe about this, that, and the other with the game, melee actually has characters I like playing (Doc, Kirby, Falco, a few other characters I play), that's one big draw to playing games period. As much as I want to be, I'm not a Pro Gamer (by definition), but I'm also not so far in the hole that I have to play a game AND win to get my next meal. With that being said, if I cant enjoy the game for whatever reason, there's no point in playing it. That's one reason why I cant get into MvC2, because Jill is, for the most part, an unplayable character. Same thing when I look at T5DR; I see Xiaoyu, and playing here would be settling (although I actually do like HOW she plays). My point is that as dumb as
Beyond that, it's REALLY the only game I know atm. It's mostly because I cant/dont go out and train up in other games. Melee's the only game that I REALLY know matchups. Everything else I play, I generally know my character and a few things here and there. Hardly enough to compete for real. Even though I'm back at home, training is 2 hours away from me, and it's hard to motivate myself to go do that when money stays tight. (My bum *** needs to get a job).
___
on an unrelated sidenote
Im leaving to go to e3 2morrow. (Yes, e3).
You n**gas better not f**k up and have the entire staff shack in here cuffin you guys. I'm gunna try to poke my head in every once in a while to shove it in your face
.But yeah, you'll have a week where you (probably) wont see very much of me.
anthony000
Smash Journeyman
I'm mad jealous you get to go to e3 son. E3 used to be the ****.
otg
Smash Master
WE'l;l miss you doggy!
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
WE'RE FREE
WE'RE FREE
*dances*
WE'RE FREE
*dances*
*pokes head in* Im not gone yet genius. XD
But yeah, dont think you're gunna get off free for a week. Arc says he already pokes his head in atleast once as is. He'll probably do it a lil more till I get back.
^_^
-does the "I'm going to e3 dance"-
But yeah, dont think you're gunna get off free for a week. Arc says he already pokes his head in atleast once as is. He'll probably do it a lil more till I get back.
^_^
-does the "I'm going to e3 dance"-
anthony000
Smash Journeyman
I'm curious as to what that dance actually looks like.
"What does Marcellus Wallace LOOK LIKE?!"
"What does Marcellus Wallace LOOK LIKE?!"
otg
Smash Master
Yeah, so Luigi's gay.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
I poke my head into the Doc Forums for a second and, well the darndest thing happened to my posts.
I never understood one liners on matchups. "Luigi is gay" does nothing for discussion unless people already have an idea why, at least say why you think he is gay so I can avoid my responsibilities.
I never understood one liners on matchups. "Luigi is gay" does nothing for discussion unless people already have an idea why, at least say why you think he is gay so I can avoid my responsibilities.
otg
Smash Master
Aww Arc, it has already been established by 18 spikes on numerous occasions. I was merely stating this as a joke/agreement to this he has posted before. Whether or not he is Doc's 3rd toughest matchup is up for serious debate, but he's tough. You need to follow up on those gimps and make them count to keep him off, lucky enough for Doc's his recovery is linear enough that if he is forced to use his UpB, he is as good as dead.
Edited:
cause arc is cool (^.^)
Shroomed
Smash Master
i dont care what any of you say, doc cant combo luigi lol
i jus get naired in the face
i jus get naired in the face
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
Usmash that nair, or just shield grab it. Your "combos" are mix-ups. Also, after the usmash, get to a certain area below him and tip with his uair, that way you don't trade hits with his nair.
Or just trade hits all day and then kill him.
This match-up is maaaaaaaaaad gay, though.
I'll get back to you in a bit, dogy. This week has burnt me out. D:
Or just trade hits all day and then kill him.
This match-up is maaaaaaaaaad gay, though.
I'll get back to you in a bit, dogy. This week has burnt me out. D:
anthony000
Smash Journeyman
Luigi is a serious test of patience.
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
You guys should try what Sheik does and just d-throw --> uair / u-tilt (idk if Doc u-tilt connects) and then just immediately shield and if he comes with Nair you grab it and if he doesn't come with Nair you just do Uair again out of shield or something gay.
People here assure me it's even so I'm going to go with that. Luigi's priority is mad gay lol.
People here assure me it's even so I'm going to go with that. Luigi's priority is mad gay lol.
Shroomed
Smash Master
doc's utilt trades hits with luigi's nair
all doc has vs luigi is backair and caping missile imo
all doc has vs luigi is backair and caping missile imo
otg
Smash Master
Go waste space in the falcon boards
how bout you guys cut out that worthless nonsense. XD
___
But yeah, went to Microsoft's press conference today. Pretty interesting **** went down.
I would talk about what all happened, but if you really care, you probably have seen all the tweets and whatnot already. Info travels like wildfire. I might be able to get into nintendo's press con on a long offshoot 2morrow, I'm not specifically too interested. Uuuuummm.
This makes me laugh everytime I roll by. It's down the street. I have a few more pics of stuff around the area. They had FF13 at the press con, previewed Odin (i have a pic, dont feel like uploading right now). Im hoping to get a better one 2morrow during the actual e3, but it is what it is. I've seen it, that's good enough for me. >: )
I also have some pics from the press conference, but considering where I was sitting (extreme back row, I'll talk about it when I get home and get the time), I didnt really get too great of quality of pictures. I dont exactly care, I think I'll get better pictures 2morrow, I have a low tier camera. I mean I'm seeing the stuff so that's good for me, pictures are more for other people. >: )
Here's a pic from the press conference. Kojima after he "snuck out" for the MGS announcement. Yeah, MGS is coming to 360, first installment is going to be MGS Rising, featuring Raiden (probably not the ***** a*s raiden from MGS2).
Umm, I've already taken 160 pics, still have 1100+ more to go on my camera, but I dont think I'll be taking long range shots.
Other highlights from the press con that I care to quickly "blog" about. (In order that I kinda remember)
1) Beatles Rockband .... oof.
2) Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - f**k yeah. (Might be time to retire from melee for good) XD
3) Splinter Cell Conviction - Splinter cell never really caught my eye before today. I just got a haymaker.
4) Left 4 Dead 2 - a.k.a. "N**gers Strike Back" double lol
5) Project Natal - everything the Wii SHOULD be (seriously. If Project Natal is a success, Wii will be shakin in their boots)
6) Facebook and Twitter on XBL - ......
7) Crackdown 2 - ok
8) Alan Wake - Never heard of it, but I'm very interested in it.
There were some other things, I might talk about them more when I do a more complete writeup..... if I remember them.
Dogysamich out.
___
But yeah, went to Microsoft's press conference today. Pretty interesting **** went down.
I would talk about what all happened, but if you really care, you probably have seen all the tweets and whatnot already. Info travels like wildfire. I might be able to get into nintendo's press con on a long offshoot 2morrow, I'm not specifically too interested. Uuuuummm.
I also have some pics from the press conference, but considering where I was sitting (extreme back row, I'll talk about it when I get home and get the time), I didnt really get too great of quality of pictures. I dont exactly care, I think I'll get better pictures 2morrow, I have a low tier camera. I mean I'm seeing the stuff so that's good for me, pictures are more for other people. >: )
Here's a pic from the press conference. Kojima after he "snuck out" for the MGS announcement. Yeah, MGS is coming to 360, first installment is going to be MGS Rising, featuring Raiden (probably not the ***** a*s raiden from MGS2).
Umm, I've already taken 160 pics, still have 1100+ more to go on my camera, but I dont think I'll be taking long range shots.
Other highlights from the press con that I care to quickly "blog" about. (In order that I kinda remember)
1) Beatles Rockband .... oof.
2) Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - f**k yeah. (Might be time to retire from melee for good) XD
3) Splinter Cell Conviction - Splinter cell never really caught my eye before today. I just got a haymaker.
4) Left 4 Dead 2 - a.k.a. "N**gers Strike Back" double lol
5) Project Natal - everything the Wii SHOULD be (seriously. If Project Natal is a success, Wii will be shakin in their boots)
6) Facebook and Twitter on XBL - ......
7) Crackdown 2 - ok
8) Alan Wake - Never heard of it, but I'm very interested in it.
There were some other things, I might talk about them more when I do a more complete writeup..... if I remember them.
Dogysamich out.
otg
Smash Master
Beatles rockband? GOD, MICHAEL JACKSON WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!?!?!?! Rock Band/Guitar Hero are offensive enough as is, but to tie a respected musical act like The Beatles in there (even though personally I think they are overrated and suck FOR THE MOST PART), is just awful.
Let's see a Rush, King Crimson or Yes rockband, and I wont ***** as much... although it'll still suck cause rock band is lame for anyone that can actually play an instrument.
Let's see a Rush, King Crimson or Yes rockband, and I wont ***** as much... although it'll still suck cause rock band is lame for anyone that can actually play an instrument.
otg
Smash Master
Standing pills stops most of there approaches. If you space Fair against their shields in the right way, they can't shield grab you and it will push them away from you/**** nana. Dsmash is your best friend.
Ban FD, camp platforms and use standing pills. Dogy thinks the matchup is 60-40 in Doc's favor, and if they can wobble it's 50-50.... I don't know how much I agree, but than again I've never fought a **** Icies main.
Ban FD, camp platforms and use standing pills. Dogy thinks the matchup is 60-40 in Doc's favor, and if they can wobble it's 50-50.... I don't know how much I agree, but than again I've never fought a **** Icies main.