Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[Shroomed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sKwHBEwb6A&feature=channel_page

when you think ur gonna win

JEFF SHUTS YOU DOWN

EDIT: Doc is always whoo hooing as well

 

[Dogysamich]

Well, considering some of the wacky *** recoveries you guys let him get away with.

And I dont mean in that video, I mean west coast in general. I've seen some vids and remember saying "There's absolutely no way in hell he should be able to recover like that."

High as a kite, no edge cancel, and the ***** makes it back SCOTFREE. COME THE **** ON.

 

[Shroomed]

well when he recovers that high it gives him options

he can either hold towards the stage, or go back for the ledge

you have to guess and u have a 50% chance of being wrong/right

i guess we jus guess wrong a lot, he mixes it up

 

[#HBC | Mac]

wow that ending was brutal...

 

[KirbyKaze]

well when he recovers that high it gives him options

he can either hold towards the stage, or go back for the ledge

you have to guess and u have a 50% chance of being wrong/right

i guess we jus guess wrong a lot, he mixes it up

If you hold the ledge on FD you can very often ledgedash into grab or D-smash if you're quick and there's nothing his DI can do about it

 

[Vulcan55]

I thought you were supposed to try and recover high with Falcon.

Recovering low is pretty much your stock.

EDIT: Assuming your DJ is out of range.

EDIT2: If that makes any sense.

 

[Desh]

i always recover low with doc. i mean, i could try to go for the sweet spot, and possibly get down air'd, and tech it. or kneed and die, but possibly and more likely grab the ledge because docs sweet spot is ridiculous.

or i could recover high and try to land on a platform or on the stage and just get a knee(/falcon pawnch?) in the face ?

personal preference. do what works XP

 

[Strong Badam]

you dont have to tell me lol

he pretty much went super saiyan on me the next match

but i use him to set goals for myself

first goal was to take a match

new goal is to beat him in a set! (ROFL i know rite?)

personally i think the more often you play him the lower your chances get, simply because of the lack of match-up experience he'd have; this happened with me vs. darkrain with my DK, anyway. i'll try to see if i can get some games in w/ my doc this saturday and tell you guys how that goes LOL
that one set i saw of you vs. ss was pretty **** awesome, though.

even if SS is recovering high you should still be able to punish him. doc has a lot of options for attacks when falcon is recovering high; u-air, bair, nair, utilt into something while he lands, dsmash, fsmash, etc. i think it's more that people are intimidated because it's SS, get nervous, and mess up.

 

[Desh]

or i hate it when falcon recovers high, but theres lots you can do lol.
Personally i just grab them and throw them off or dsmash them >_>
or bair them, depends on how high theyre trying to recover =/

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

man when u guys play jeff and u can't edgeuard him

ill be in the back saying "i told u so" hahaha

edit: but hey, maybe we just can't edgeguard.

 

[otg]

I might be baked, but I seriously think Jeff has magic powers.

 

[Desh]

ss does get away with just landing where he pleases sometimes XP
although of course there are situations where you simply cant reach him.
But a lot of the time it seems that if he recovers high, or doesn't go for the edge, people just let him come back XD

But who knows, maybe he is magical DX

 

[Dogysamich]

edit: but hey, maybe we just can't edgeguard.

West Coast Edgeguards. XD

That's ok.

 

[NES n00b]

West Coast Edgeguards. XD

That's ok.

It really isn't.

 

[Dogysamich]

Neither is your Nanaya but you dont see me saying anything about that, do you?

 

[NES n00b]

Neither is your Nanaya but you dont see me saying anything about that, do you?

You just did right now, son. I already know my Nanaya sucks and regular joe on the street knows it. Warachia is where it is at anyway.

Doesn't take away from the fact that I see Silentspectre getting away with silly things including recovering. xD

 

[Shroomed]

well jeff does also ledge cancel 90% of his UP B's

heck, he ledge cancels 90% of EVERYTHING he does

 

[KirbyKaze]

man when u guys play jeff and u can't edgeuard him

ill be in the back saying "i told u so" hahaha

edit: but hey, maybe we just can't edgeguard.

Us not being able to edgeguard him wouldn't change that you can't edgeguard him either. And we're looking at this all wrong. We shouldn't be fighting amongst ourselves. We should be figuring out how to edgeguard tricky Falcon recoveries with creative, effective solutions that completely destroy his hopes of coming back (or on FD just screw that entirely and ledgedash --> grab or d-smash if he tries that mindgame sh*t).

 

[Strong Badam]

I just ****.

 

[ranmaru]

Are you saying we should... Stand up and fight? Band up and unite? Learn from eachother? Brother oh brother? From anothah mother? Pass the torch? Guard the porch?

 

[Shroomed]

up tilt really is the ****in BOMB

why havent i realized until now that it's so good?

 

[Strong Badam]

It's difficult to use correctly. Usually it ends up being like an ftilt until you know how to use it properly, then it's raaaaape.

 

[SpruceTengu]

Are you saying we should... Stand up and fight? Band up and unite? Learn from eachother? Brother oh brother? From anothah mother? Pass the torch? Guard the porch?

Lawl, I approve of this.

As for utilt-- I'd agree that it's kind of a neglected move, but unless it's already been discussed, I'd love to hear more about why people think it's epic ****. I tend to use it sparingly to avoid getting read, but find that it comes out so fast with such a weird upward hitbox (and shorter lagtime afterward) that it replaces upsmash about 90% of the time against some characters, especially in combos. I also just REALLY like the way uair--> Lcancel bair looks in terms of a popup. The thing i'm most pleased with in utilt is that people just.. don't see it coming sometimes.


As for SS, I still consider him the slayer of docs, and have been inspired to watch more matches and witness his twilight-zone recovery. 0_o

 

[otg]

up tilt really is the ****in BOMB

why havent i realized until now that it's so good?

Because no one listens to me about **** cause all I do is **** talk so I'm not taken seriously.

What makes utilt good?
- It's fast on the ground
- It has a good hitbox
- It hit's in a number of ways so your opponent will have a hard time DIing it properly.
- It's nice as an edgeguard and can beat out spacies Side B (what move can't though lol?)
- It's really nice after a dash attack
- It's best use IMO is right after an Uair. Whether it's a defensive Uair or Uair as part of a combo, utilt is a great follow up move either to clear the opponent the **** away from you, or keep the combo going.
- It's a good anti-air.

I could go on, but I have HW to do. This is my bs list for now

 

[Kasumi]

I've never really used it outside a combo (except against capfal), but I'll take your advice and give it a shot against some air attacks.

And quick question, would you prefer the utilt against the spacies forward+b to ftilt?

Dash attack uptilt is DEFINITELY nice. I still accidentally dash attack sometimes, but uptilt usually saves my ***, and if it connects it sometimes sets an ftilt up after.

 

[Desh]

i utilt the side b in all situations .
Except for the obvious one wich is when they go for the ledge. wich is when down angled ftilt is what i would do.
otherwise, i always prefer utilt. its easier to time, comes out quicker, and stays out longer. also, it covers more area vertically, basically creates a wall. o.o plus i like the trajectory the utilt its at.
if they go higher, and u time it so they go directly up from the top part of the utilt, it can set up for a fair, and if they go lower to middle, then it just hits them back off and is pretty nice set up for a uair, and/or bair.

 

[otg]

To beat out spacies side b you have a few options actually. If they are gong below the stage, low angled Ftilt is your **** (in fact, if they are using UpB to sweetspot the edge, low angled Ftilt is your friend as well). If they are going right above the stage, dash attack -> utilt is actually really sweet and I've started using it recently to great success.

If they are trying to illusion onto a platform and you have time to call it out, jump up with a nair and watch em go flying out. You can also pull a gangsta move, jump off the stage and DJ back on with a Nair. By the time they get to you, your nair will be wicked strong and will send them the **** out.

Besides that, you have good old Bair..... yeah. that's it lol.

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

Us not being able to edgeguard him wouldn't change that you can't edgeguard him either. And we're looking at this all wrong. We shouldn't be fighting amongst ourselves. We should be figuring out how to edgeguard tricky Falcon recoveries with creative, effective solutions that completely destroy his hopes of coming back (or on FD just screw that entirely and ledgedash --> grab or d-smash if he tries that mindgame sh*t).

very true hahahaha


and U-Tilt = LEGIT

 

[metashinryu]

please people,you have a hard time edgeguarding capn with doc?just dsmash if hes going low and cape his up+b if hes going high,just dont be intimidated and keep your distance,also pill him during up+b to raise pressure and raise the chance of a messup up+b-cape=stock -_-

 

[otg]

please people,you have a hard time edgeguarding capn with doc?just dsmash if hes going low and cape his up+b if hes going high,just dont be intimidated and keep your distance,also pill him during up+b to raise pressure and raise the chance of a messup up+b-cape=stock -_-

Fight Jeff and we'll see how easy it is.

 

[metashinryu]

i would like to but you know,doc isnt my main,i would go capn all the way to learn some sh¡t XD

also i cant travel from a nation to another just for being *****(or cant anyways) XD

 

[Dogysamich]

uptilts kool.

please people,you have a hard time edgeguarding capn with doc?j

topic isnt edgeguarding capfal, it's edgeguarding silent specter. Same concept as edgeguarding shizwiz. Easy in theory, hard in practice.

Fear aura.
Wish i could find the section of it in The Good Ol' Sirlin Book But I cant remember what chapter it's in.

I need to read Playing to Win again.

 

[otg]

So yeah, Doc conference. Whats real good.

 

[Dogysamich]

That **** was pretty hilarious.

We established...absolutely nothing. Just random jankin! XD You guys need to be on aim more if you wanna be involved!

Just some random *** chatroom nonsense.

 

[Kasumi]

There really should just be a Doc AIM chatroom open all the time.

Another random question from Kasumi:

How does everyone feel about taking Shiek to Mute City? I feel like I should have done that when I got ledge stalled like crazy, but I always avoid picking the actual counterpick stages, since I fear they'll pull out some secondary I can't fight against. Would Mute City give Sheik some huge edge over Doc that I'm not seeing? Kasumi would try these things on his own, but hardly anyone good lives close to him.

 

[otg]

Sheik at Mute city? That just seems wrong. Doc needs the ledge to recover more than Sheik, and her recovery is better than yours overall so I can't see you getting too many cape kills. CG's might be free on that stage though.

 

[Dogysamich]

i've been lookin at this today and just kinda throwing the idea around in my head. I can remember the one time I tried this, way back when at pound2 vs drephen. Granted I blew horribly bad then (as opposed to just being abysmally bad now), and drephen was still drephen, it didnt really work out too well.

BUT.

There are some things you can get from this.

___

1) For a majority of the time, you can chaingrab sheik uninterrupted by platforms.

2) Anytime you get sheik off the stage, that's free punishment.

3) Sheik's not going to have alot of room to back up and setup/reset defense, which is what you want.

But on the negative side of it.

1) for a majority of the time, you're gunna be in sheik's face.

2) Anytime sheik gets you off the stage, that's free punishment.

3) You're not going to have alot of room to move away from sheik's pressure.

My point in all of this is that in this matchup, mutecity can REALLY be double edged. For it ot even work, you need to have a reason to even go there. It's not that it cant work, but if you go there for the wrong reasons, it will backfire so quick it's not even funny.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

I never thought of that.. Sheik not being able to have a ledge to camp her *** off during my respawn. I gotta try that

 

[St. Viers]

then they counterpick peach/samus/puff, and you cry XD.

I hate that stage.

 

[Strong Badam]

then u can counterpick their char lol.