Aight, im buffering this now.
Vid is 9:13. If there isnt least 4:37 of doc, expect points for irrelevant posting.
Vid is 9:13. If there isnt least 4:37 of doc, expect points for irrelevant posting.
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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
- Start date
i can go look in the **** mirror if i wanted sexy stuff....
... actually no i cant. I think i'd gag if i looked int he mirror.
__
BUT WE WAS TALKIN ABOUT M2. IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH THAT? M2's pretty kool.
He's got that purple-dat-purple-dat... yezzir. And he's got like, kool combos. And pretty much brawl-lawls past edgeguards. And upthrow taunt is one of the best morale killers in all fighting games. Especially when you taunt before they get off the top.
It'd be kool if his confusion actually reflected projectiles instead just... kinda deflecting them.
_______
how the **** do you have a 9 minute combo video, post it on the doc forums, and dont even have a doc getting comboed in it.
That's straight blasphemy, yo.
... actually no i cant. I think i'd gag if i looked int he mirror.
__
BUT WE WAS TALKIN ABOUT M2. IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH THAT? M2's pretty kool.
He's got that purple-dat-purple-dat... yezzir. And he's got like, kool combos. And pretty much brawl-lawls past edgeguards. And upthrow taunt is one of the best morale killers in all fighting games. Especially when you taunt before they get off the top.
It'd be kool if his confusion actually reflected projectiles instead just... kinda deflecting them.
_______
how the **** do you have a 9 minute combo video, post it on the doc forums, and dont even have a doc getting comboed in it.
That's straight blasphemy, yo.
If that was my real goal, I'd use y.link. Cause Y.link isnt fat like Fat Link. I like the concept of being able to move in a timely manner.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
stos is softer than desh in the playboy mansion.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
idk, Taj told me Mario/Doc/Luigi were hard as Mewtwo 'cuz you can't combo them for balls and their moves have more priority overall (less range, more priority) so they can just spam stuff and expect it to cut through his aerial tail moves.
His only real threat, it seems, aside from good spacing (because range matters more in general than priority in terms of move-to-move interaction and whose move wins) is like D-tilt --> another thing, I don't think you can D-throw --> move on them (although B-throw gimps and U-throw gimps are dumb).
I don't see why moving around on platforms a lot and forcing him to fight you with aerials wouldn't work, working on the principle that pills will force him to jump to hit you, but then I feel his range becomes an issue. Still, forcing the game into a battle of single hits where you have a projectile advantage might not exactly be a bad idea, since his ground game is probably his strongest point, whereas Doc's best thing is probably that he's flexible (not really great at anything, but decent enough everywhere), so picking on removing his strong points is probably what I'd try.
But I don't play either character so that's just theory.
His only real threat, it seems, aside from good spacing (because range matters more in general than priority in terms of move-to-move interaction and whose move wins) is like D-tilt --> another thing, I don't think you can D-throw --> move on them (although B-throw gimps and U-throw gimps are dumb).
I don't see why moving around on platforms a lot and forcing him to fight you with aerials wouldn't work, working on the principle that pills will force him to jump to hit you, but then I feel his range becomes an issue. Still, forcing the game into a battle of single hits where you have a projectile advantage might not exactly be a bad idea, since his ground game is probably his strongest point, whereas Doc's best thing is probably that he's flexible (not really great at anything, but decent enough everywhere), so picking on removing his strong points is probably what I'd try.
But I don't play either character so that's just theory.
Desh
Smash Ace
you pill a lot.
roflroflrofl
also, david i swear steve said that at bernies or something XD
roflroflrofl
also, david i swear steve said that at bernies or something XD
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Steve said that at his tournament.
otg
Smash Master
Any of you canadians watch Trailer Park boys? That show is my ****ing ****.
For anybody who's been keeping up with the random low-tier talks we've had in here.
Pikachu's up+b does have landing lag.
Pikachu's up+b does have landing lag.
stos you are so ****ing baller for using beggin
edit: aww you ended it too early
edit: aww you ended it too early
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
I dont really see m2 not being able to combo as a problem.
In a low combo matchup such as doc m2 or luigi m2 all you gotta do is be smart.
M2 can edgeguard so at decent percents you got that and with good DI he should live a little while.
I like to rack up damage with grabs and tech chases and baby shadowballs and then throw to edgeguard.
Not to mention like dogy said, upthrow to taunt is ****. and on more floaty characters you can usually get a downthrow to fair which can kill decently.
M2 pwns
In a low combo matchup such as doc m2 or luigi m2 all you gotta do is be smart.
M2 can edgeguard so at decent percents you got that and with good DI he should live a little while.
I like to rack up damage with grabs and tech chases and baby shadowballs and then throw to edgeguard.
Not to mention like dogy said, upthrow to taunt is ****. and on more floaty characters you can usually get a downthrow to fair which can kill decently.
M2 pwns
Dunking M2 is also like dunkin on a 6-foot rim. XD That junk is toooooooooo funny.
Retardedly-big-hurtbox-havin'-***-character.
Ol'-oversized-rodent-lookin-***-maa****er.
Looks-like-something-I-outta-be-pickin'-up-out-of-a-claw-machine-***-maa****er.
Wooooooooooooooooooooooo.
jankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjank
Retardedly-big-hurtbox-havin'-***-character.
Ol'-oversized-rodent-lookin-***-maa****er.
Looks-like-something-I-outta-be-pickin'-up-out-of-a-claw-machine-***-maa****er.
Wooooooooooooooooooooooo.
jankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjankjank
anthony000
Smash Journeyman
On the Pikachu note, yeah I noticed that today when playing one.
soap
Smash Hero
have u been drinkin dogy?
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
up b lag sucks!!! lol
good thing I play m2
good thing I play m2
I wish.
And I say that not meaning "I wish I had something to drink, or could afford to drink", but meaning "I wish I could say I was drinking to explain my nonsense."
I dun drink; never have, probably never will.
Shadow Huan
Smash Champion
Man I got behind... gotta catch up here.
Just try and find a Mewtwo player at the next MM you're at. It'll either be me or Cloud777... and we're just about even in ability at the moment, so you'll have a fight on your hands one way or the other... unless you're like M2K or something. D=
As for me... i actually main Marth and Mewtwo. I'll test the waters with Marth 1st myself. *coughs* I can also play C. Falcon, Fox, Falco, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Bowser, Doc, Mario, Luigi, Jigglypuff, Link and Roy.
I know right. T.T Way to go Sakurai! Well thought out reflection move there...
i've actually heard that it's just a code that they forgot to finish...
I'm on the opposite side of the state sooonnnn
I was at the MM that just passed this last week-end, where I lost more than i won. (I'm still newish to the whole tourny thing... I didn't have a job for the longest time and couldn't afford it.) But even 99% of the matches i lost were close. I just need to get back into the game again. The Mario that beat me only 1 stocked my M2 for eg.
Just try and find a Mewtwo player at the next MM you're at. It'll either be me or Cloud777... and we're just about even in ability at the moment, so you'll have a fight on your hands one way or the other... unless you're like M2K or something. D=
Mario is even yes. Dr. (Whom I also play.) is different.
As for me... i actually main Marth and Mewtwo. I'll test the waters with Marth 1st myself. *coughs* I can also play C. Falcon, Fox, Falco, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Bowser, Doc, Mario, Luigi, Jigglypuff, Link and Roy.
I know right. T.T Way to go Sakurai! Well thought out reflection move there...
i've actually heard that it's just a code that they forgot to finish...
That's the idea. you have to do that in every fight with Doc or Mario or Luigi. a good Mewtwo player will bait you into a mistake and **** you for it though...
lol Kaos...
I'm on the opposite side of the state sooonnnn
otg
Smash Master
Viers: you playing with KDJ a lot? Who is he using now?
viers and tengu, go to wpi today. I need to test my fox on someone
commuter rail
otg
Smash Master
Yedi, you been playing Neal at all?
played him once before a tourney at wpi.
but no not much
but no not much
IC4 was today. Got 2nd. Lost to cornel. I gotta go ask greenmario a few questions next time I catch him.
Got 2nd in doubles. Lost to Xif and Marty (GAPeach). Man my fair spacing is so wack.
Got 3rd in brawl doubles, and I didnt even pay to enter. It.... was pretty comical. Oh man
And then I played some ONE-ON-ONE GOVERNMENT. YAYHUZZ *****Z.
That game is too **** good.
__
I got some stuff to type up about luigi, I'll do that 2morrooooooooooow (assuming I dont wind up going to my friend's house and practicing SC4. I have to learn how to step in that game. Me in SC4 was ****ing hilarious for anybody who cares.)
I actually have some stuff to say about pika, not much.
Got 2nd in doubles. Lost to Xif and Marty (GAPeach). Man my fair spacing is so wack.
Got 3rd in brawl doubles, and I didnt even pay to enter. It.... was pretty comical. Oh man
And then I played some ONE-ON-ONE GOVERNMENT. YAYHUZZ *****Z.
That game is too **** good.
__
I got some stuff to type up about luigi, I'll do that 2morrooooooooooow (assuming I dont wind up going to my friend's house and practicing SC4. I have to learn how to step in that game. Me in SC4 was ****ing hilarious for anybody who cares.)
I actually have some stuff to say about pika, not much.
Desh
Smash Ace
anthony000
Smash Journeyman
Wow, that would be amazing. Doc for high tier!
Luigi_Lova62
Smash Journeyman
Doc Forever!!!
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Good **** dogy. 2nd aint bad lol.
Luigi.
Ok first and foremost you have to realize luigi is actually slow as balls. On the ground and in the air. His run speed and air movement speed is slow as ****.
Where he gets fast is his wavedash speed, obviously. The thing to keep in mind about that is wavedashing is a commitment. Everytime Luigi (or anybody in the game) wants to wavedash, they have to commit a specific amount of time to wavedashing (14+ frames). With that being said, Luigi's wavedash range is huge as hell. That's actually double edged. There's a decent range where you can stand where luigi CANT wavedash into you or else he'll still be in his commitment and you can hit him. (Cliffnotes version: He has to stand farther out to space his wavedashes). With that being said, you have to know where the optimal spacing for his WDing is, and not be there (that being PAST where the jump animation ends, since he'll continue to slide). How you "not be there" depends on your playstyle; you can be not there but away from him, not there but closer to him (so he cant WD), not there but in the air. Depends on your playstyle. Realistically, if you hang out right at the end of his WD range, you can call a WD with a f.smash or f.tilt and call it that way, dash attack if you're gutsy. (all are real meaty)
Thing number 2. continuing off of his wavedashes. Anytime luigi gets a KD, he can cover your options cause of his WD. Again, the thing is commitment. So you have to look and see if your tech will put you in good spacing for his WD or not. Of course, if he's already close enough to you he's got enough time to do whatever he wants.
Next thing, you can combo luigi. ****ing lol you can combo him. The thing is, you kinda get detered from doing it because if you do stuff at the wrong time, he can turn it around on you. Luigi still gets upair juggled like alot of characters, still eats the MLG combo, whatever. It's just you cant do stuff like double u.air at low percents. What's really funny is that you cant do that to ANYBODY, but it apparently looks so bad vs luigi because you go up instead of out. (I mean lets be real, if you try to cheat jiggs with something like this, you can get rested.)
If Luigi d_u.throws (read down or up), DI behind him. Always. He's got the kind of throws that you cant DI in front of. I mean, just incase you dont know. Going further into this, his follow up is going to more-than-likely be to WD behind you, cause you're going to go far enough. (If you choose not to DI, he's probably just gunna turn around and chop or something). When you DI though, you have to mixup your response. He's just going to be there. He cant cover everything, though.
If you want to cut down on his wavedashing, you throw alot of ground pills. That's just... common sense. That's kinda how pills work, blocking lanes.
Anytime luigi does an aerial, if it's not a n.air, you probably dont want to try attack him. Double aerials. Realistically, it's the same thing that doc/mario can do, only difference is luigi can do it off of SH. That being said, dealing with luigi's SH double aerials is the same as dealing with Doc/Mario's FH double aerials; dont try to shieldgrab after blank->u.airs/ late n.airs unless you want to get jabbed (or shinryuken'd in luigi's case). If he spaces badly, you can still cut off the second aerial just like you would the marios, but you have to actually be ready for it. Speaking of multiaerials, we have SHBADJDBA, luigi has SHBADJ-WALL-OF-****ING-B.AIR. Just keep that in mind (it's kinda comical if you're not ready for it, and it's triple back air for anybody who cares.) Sidenote: I bet some of you guys forgot about those dumb acronyms we had. SHBAWD, SHBADJBAWD, etc, etc. Real pointless. XD
When edgeguarding him, you just have to accept the fact that misfire happens. If it's really a bad thing that he randomly gets a free pass back onto the stage, you need to reevaluate what game you're playing (there's ALOT more random stuff in melee). That being said, Your goal is to get luigi to go low. As he goes below you, rain pills down on him to slow/stop his side-bs. You're looking to stay above him with this. If you can call him being in a specific spot, feel free to jump out and b.air, but pilling is safer. If you can get him below the stage, call the up+b and edgehog. He's not going to up+b onto the stage (he cant).
ummmmmmmmmm i might add more to this later, im kinda distracted right now.
Ok first and foremost you have to realize luigi is actually slow as balls. On the ground and in the air. His run speed and air movement speed is slow as ****.
Where he gets fast is his wavedash speed, obviously. The thing to keep in mind about that is wavedashing is a commitment. Everytime Luigi (or anybody in the game) wants to wavedash, they have to commit a specific amount of time to wavedashing (14+ frames). With that being said, Luigi's wavedash range is huge as hell. That's actually double edged. There's a decent range where you can stand where luigi CANT wavedash into you or else he'll still be in his commitment and you can hit him. (Cliffnotes version: He has to stand farther out to space his wavedashes). With that being said, you have to know where the optimal spacing for his WDing is, and not be there (that being PAST where the jump animation ends, since he'll continue to slide). How you "not be there" depends on your playstyle; you can be not there but away from him, not there but closer to him (so he cant WD), not there but in the air. Depends on your playstyle. Realistically, if you hang out right at the end of his WD range, you can call a WD with a f.smash or f.tilt and call it that way, dash attack if you're gutsy. (all are real meaty)
Thing number 2. continuing off of his wavedashes. Anytime luigi gets a KD, he can cover your options cause of his WD. Again, the thing is commitment. So you have to look and see if your tech will put you in good spacing for his WD or not. Of course, if he's already close enough to you he's got enough time to do whatever he wants.
Next thing, you can combo luigi. ****ing lol you can combo him. The thing is, you kinda get detered from doing it because if you do stuff at the wrong time, he can turn it around on you. Luigi still gets upair juggled like alot of characters, still eats the MLG combo, whatever. It's just you cant do stuff like double u.air at low percents. What's really funny is that you cant do that to ANYBODY, but it apparently looks so bad vs luigi because you go up instead of out. (I mean lets be real, if you try to cheat jiggs with something like this, you can get rested.)
If Luigi d_u.throws (read down or up), DI behind him. Always. He's got the kind of throws that you cant DI in front of. I mean, just incase you dont know. Going further into this, his follow up is going to more-than-likely be to WD behind you, cause you're going to go far enough. (If you choose not to DI, he's probably just gunna turn around and chop or something). When you DI though, you have to mixup your response. He's just going to be there. He cant cover everything, though.
If you want to cut down on his wavedashing, you throw alot of ground pills. That's just... common sense. That's kinda how pills work, blocking lanes.
Anytime luigi does an aerial, if it's not a n.air, you probably dont want to try attack him. Double aerials. Realistically, it's the same thing that doc/mario can do, only difference is luigi can do it off of SH. That being said, dealing with luigi's SH double aerials is the same as dealing with Doc/Mario's FH double aerials; dont try to shieldgrab after blank->u.airs/ late n.airs unless you want to get jabbed (or shinryuken'd in luigi's case). If he spaces badly, you can still cut off the second aerial just like you would the marios, but you have to actually be ready for it. Speaking of multiaerials, we have SHBADJDBA, luigi has SHBADJ-WALL-OF-****ING-B.AIR. Just keep that in mind (it's kinda comical if you're not ready for it, and it's triple back air for anybody who cares.) Sidenote: I bet some of you guys forgot about those dumb acronyms we had. SHBAWD, SHBADJBAWD, etc, etc. Real pointless. XD
When edgeguarding him, you just have to accept the fact that misfire happens. If it's really a bad thing that he randomly gets a free pass back onto the stage, you need to reevaluate what game you're playing (there's ALOT more random stuff in melee). That being said, Your goal is to get luigi to go low. As he goes below you, rain pills down on him to slow/stop his side-bs. You're looking to stay above him with this. If you can call him being in a specific spot, feel free to jump out and b.air, but pilling is safer. If you can get him below the stage, call the up+b and edgehog. He's not going to up+b onto the stage (he cant).
ummmmmmmmmm i might add more to this later, im kinda distracted right now.
Christopher Rodriguez
The illest Project M Bowser
Fsmashing luigi is brilliant, I gotta agree with that dogy. I mean, sometimes you could just sit there and if he trys to approach you with a wd in your face/falling in front of you (even better) just fsmash and he'll usually eat it. Its definitely worth trying.
sorry, I had some more stuff to say, but I got de_railed cause people I dont really talk to called me upset over some drama between them. *rolls eyes* It's a funny story, but the end result is i remembered how to do Hisui's Dustloop in Melty Blood.
Yeah, Im a terrible person.
___
Anyway.
Luigi. Yeah, it's pretty interesting. He needs room, and he needs platforms. I have a few more things I could add on, but it's nothing really major.
-Luigi's tornado mechanic (resets once he tornados on the ground. Tornado is actually good for attack and combo starter. yada yada)
-Recovering vs Luigi (it's pretty much the same as all recoveries. Tuck your nuts and pray)
-Shinryuken has a little invincibility (That's kind of ironic considering the joke)
___
I think that's all i got for now...... i think.
Im gunna go play some stuff on ggpo. Maybe I'll think of something else.
___
actually, just thought of something.
Blue doc + Jill tag = win.
"DOGY DONT YOU MISS THAT ****ING QUICK TIME N**GER". Greatest, comment ever.
I'M A MEMBER OF S.T.A.R.S.!!!
Yeah, Im a terrible person.
___
Anyway.
Luigi. Yeah, it's pretty interesting. He needs room, and he needs platforms. I have a few more things I could add on, but it's nothing really major.
-Luigi's tornado mechanic (resets once he tornados on the ground. Tornado is actually good for attack and combo starter. yada yada)
-Recovering vs Luigi (it's pretty much the same as all recoveries. Tuck your nuts and pray)
-Shinryuken has a little invincibility (That's kind of ironic considering the joke)
___
I think that's all i got for now...... i think.
Im gunna go play some stuff on ggpo. Maybe I'll think of something else.
___
actually, just thought of something.
Blue doc + Jill tag = win.
"DOGY DONT YOU MISS THAT ****ING QUICK TIME N**GER". Greatest, comment ever.
I'M A MEMBER OF S.T.A.R.S.!!!