Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[Shroomed]

I'm going for sure. Approaching is good assuming you do it correctly.

 

[Palpi]

So recently I've decided to camp, rarely approach, CC a lot, spam pills and just be gay as **** in general.

Needless to say, I got a LOT better almost overnight. I've always tried to play this game going aggro, I find it more fun that way, but after ROM3 it was clear to me I needed to make an adjustment if I want to deal with these campy *** Sheiks/Spacies which are becoming more prevalent in my area. As a result, I got 5th at a tourney this past weekend, and while I feel like I could've done better (could've gotten Top 3, dropped the ball in Winner's Semi's) I'm seeing new avenue's for growth, and many new things to apply into my game.

I'm feeling very good about my game right now, and I think I can actually go to Apex now, so it's time to see if I can apply this on a grander scheme. I best see you all there, who is going?

I would like to get some more games in. I will probably be going peach a lot, but who knows

 

[Max?]

Word Shroomed, I feel you. I haven't stopped approaching, but the adjustments I've made in the last 3 or 4 weeks have definitely been a huge step for me. I like, never used pills, and now I'm whoring them out, things like that. I guess I'm really just focusing on picking my spots better, keeping my cool and letting the game play itself out more as opposed to trying to be the one who dictates the action.

@Palpi, sure dude, just find me.

 

[Brookman]

lmao

Hey Mike, I've spent the last 3 years jumping and approaching, so now it's time for a change. My punish game is dirty good from years of aggro, so combine that with some new found gayness and I think I'm gonna be running your state in no time.

Pikachu?m??m?

 

[Max?]

I'm about to **** NE

 

[Shroomed]

Word Shroomed, I feel you. I haven't stopped approaching, but the adjustments I've made in the last 3 or 4 weeks have definitely been a huge step for me. I like, never used pills, and now I'm whoring them out, things like that. I guess I'm really just focusing on picking my spots better, keeping my cool and letting the game play itself out more as opposed to trying to be the one who dictates the action.

@Palpi, sure dude, just find me.

Yeah. Sadly Doc isn't really best to dictate the pace of the match. He moreso needs to be able to function under any pace. You can't force approaching with Doc, you have to wait for your opportunity in my opinion. Pills are a good way to do so lol.

 

[Deleted member]

dajuan sucks

 

[Shroomed]

dajuan sucks

suck my **** ***** *** *****

 

[Violence]

yo Dajuan, one of my friends is picking up Doc(and melee).

Beyond Lcanceling, movement/wavedashing, jab->dsmash/grab/whatever else you want, grab combos, and edgeguarding, what are some basics he needs to learn?

Should you always fullhop->pill? Standing pill? sh pill?

Is there a video that he should definitely watch?

 

[Max?]

Mix up the way you use pills, there are instances where doing one is less advantageous than the other (typically its based on how fast your opponent is, where they are in relation to you when you throw the pill out, and how quickly the can bridge the gap between the two of you). CC is really good.

I would suggest learn how to Usmash OOS, as it's probably one of the best tools Doc has in the current metagame. I would also suggest learning Doc's follow up options from Dthrow against spacies @ various %'s as it gives him a TON of room for jank outside of traditional Uthrow nonsense (which is not guaranteed btw). Learn to space, and move as fast as possible, etc.


These are just a few that come to mind, I could write a lot more later if there is something specific you wanna know.


Oh and DEFINITELY learn the CG %'s and learn to do them perfectly, gotta milk every % you can get. Same thing with throw -> fair. That **** will win games, you can't be dropping them when you have the set up.

 

[Ørn]

Speaking of CGs, I recently learned the Sheik CG and it's extremely good. How come I never see people use it? Maybe I just don't see Doc vs. Sheik often enough, lol.

Mixing in a dthrow while CGing spacies is usually pretty good too, since they'll often DI wrong and that nets you a free dsmash. I see Shroomed doing this a lot vs. spacies.

 

[Max?]

Dthrow on spacies is amazing. If your reactions are good enough, you can Dthrow CG spacies for a VERY long time as well. Mix this in with his Uthrow CG and you have a LOT of jank which can really throw your opponent off. After a few regrabs, once you have an idea of their next DI input from the throw (you can figure this out based on previous habits, stage positioning during the throw, reads/guess etc) THEN you get the free Dthrow -> Smash attack, which is really good.

I'm very confident in my tech chasing, so I tend to do janky stuff by the ledge like dthrow at really low %, and react to them by Fsmashing tech in place/no tech, and get a regrab/dsmash/usmash on tech rolling in a direction.

Also Violence, learning how to pivot Dsmash is really really good for quick punishes. You can also do stuff like bair -> pivot dsmash or reverse uair -> pivot dsmash starting at really low % vs. most of the cast.



As for Doc's CG on Sheik, yeah it's pretty good, tho it seems like Sheik can jump out around 30 or 40% with no DI/holding up out of the throw. If she DI's in a direction from the throw you can continue the CG til waaay higher %'s than its supposed to work to with no DI/holding up. I think a lot of throws are like that, some that come to mind are Fox's Uthrow, Marth's Uthrow.

 

[stelzig]

I'm the sheik he CG'd. When I didn't DI he would usmash me. I gave up on the option pretty quickly though so maybe you really can jump out in time to avoid that too?

Edit: I probably tried to Nair out too... Guess I should start trying to jump out of stuff with sheik more

 

[Max?]

You can get Usmashed, utilted, fsmashed and probably dsmashed as well. Depending on the % there is probably an optimal follow up (usmash at lower%, utilt at mid, Fsmash towards the end of the CG % range) to keep the combo going/send Sheik offstage. Doc also has the option to pivot JC grab to continue the CG, tho you would need to have stupid fast reaction time to acknowledge the DI and then do the input. Most Doc's (myself included) would probably opt to take the free hit, but once again, you have to acknowledge and react to Sheik's trying to jump/no DI as well.

 

[Rostigalen]

Eagle: 20 SEK Doc Ditto MM at next tourney?

/Isa

 

[Ørn]

I'll gladly MM you.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcrHZ7PX12g&list=UU0Jha-5Ckmhh1_6ECTXwuxw&index=3&feature=plcp

Here's my terrible *** doc. 2 years of not playing makes for a fat Doc.

 

[SmashMac]

Dthrow on spacies is amazing. If your reactions are good enough, you can Dthrow CG spacies for a VERY long time as well. Mix this in with his Uthrow CG and you have a LOT of jank which can really throw your opponent off. After a few regrabs, once you have an idea of their next DI input from the throw (you can figure this out based on previous habits, stage positioning during the throw, reads/guess etc) THEN you get the free Dthrow -> Smash attack, which is really good.

I'm very confident in my tech chasing, so I tend to do janky stuff by the ledge like dthrow at really low %, and react to them by Fsmashing tech in place/no tech, and get a regrab/dsmash/usmash on tech rolling in a direction.

Also Violence, learning how to pivot Dsmash is really really good for quick punishes. You can also do stuff like bair -> pivot dsmash or reverse uair -> pivot dsmash starting at really low % vs. most of the cast.



As for Doc's CG on Sheik, yeah it's pretty good, tho it seems like Sheik can jump out around 30 or 40% with no DI/holding up out of the throw. If she DI's in a direction from the throw you can continue the CG til waaay higher %'s than its supposed to work to with no DI/holding up. I think a lot of throws are like that, some that come to mind are Fox's Uthrow, Marth's Uthrow.

Yes. When dthrowing Sheik she actually can get out if they DI up and away at around 35% and try to jump. I usually just dthrow full jump dair if I'm lucky enough to get them at around 40% just to guarantee myself extra damage, instead of taking the chance that the Sheik actually knows how to DI and grabbing again.

You can uthrow the spacies until about 53 - 56%. If you grab them again at around 75%, you can dthrow CG even though it is hard but they can't get out of it, until around 93% when you headbutt them twice, uthrow full jump fair.

Of course this is all assuming that the situation actually calls for this combo. For example, one wouldn't attempt this combo on a mobile platform. There's no one set way of playing any character in all honesty. Everything is situational.

Edit: I just spent $300 on plane tickets to attend APEX 2012. I'm pretty hype.

 

[Max?]

Awesome SmashMac, we def have to play. But yeah I agree that there is no universal best way to handle a given situation with Doc, it's really based on the circumstances at the time. However, if I get a grab at 75%, I know I just have to tack on another 15-20% to be in throw -> fair range on most characters, so especially when dealing with the spacies, I will do whatever setup I can to GUARANTEE that I still have a grab or am in control to make sure I get that throw setup. In most cases, that means dthrow CG, and if I catch them DIing badly, I will Dsmash, idgaf.

You cannot squander any opportunities you have in this game, especially with Doc.

 

[Brookman]

Two pills. = 16 damage?

 

[unknown522]

I went doc last month in a set randomly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MzmjPzzH9E

Game 2 and onwards. Enjoy

edit: I'm not looking for advice. I just felt like posting the matches

 

[VGmasta]

Two pills. = 16 damage?

15 damage... unless the 2nd pill is fresh.

I went doc last month in a set randomly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MzmjPzzH9E

Game 2 and onwards. Enjoy

edit: I'm not looking for advice. I just felt like posting the matches

Well it doesn't look like you need advice anyway. The Doc looks amazing.
The Fox actually played the matchup really good. A lot of Foxes parish against Doc because they barely know the matchup.
And the Raynex edgegaurds at 7:54.

 

[ranmaru]

Shout outs to Boss! Thanks for playing with me and givin me some tips.

CANT DO ANYTHING TO M2K's SHIEK. lol.

 

[St. Viers]

@Ranmaru: In now two semesters, I've managed to surprise (correctly read and punish) dan's marth once, and never his shiek or fox. I know *kinda* how you feel.

In other scrub news, I had a personal smash epiphany during finals week (of all times :\), and if I can manage to put it into action (and get back basic tech skill/ unlearn a few bad habits), I might start going to tourneys again.

 

[SmashMac]

If you ever want to find out what your bad habits are quickly, play a top professional smasher in a few sets. I'm lucky I have my brothers Shiz and KSN. Shiz has taught me so many of my bad habits and other options to do instead. My teams partner Pr0jekt actually revealed to me the concept of covering options. I never realized that's what I was doing this whole time was just covering options and choosing options wisely. It's a mindset thing. I think since Pr0jekt was a Mortal Kombat professional that he discovered the mindset attribute of gaming very early and that's one of the reasons why his learning curve is so good. I think the professional players are the ones that start off with the correct mindset when learning a game which is to play in a defensive manner even when on the offense and to choose options wisely.

 

[Max?]

PC ***** me until a lot of my bad habits went away. Not to say I still don't have some, but he just exploited a lot of the REALLY obvious ones. So yeah, play as many **** people as possible.

 

[Niko45]

I feel like Tom is actually really good to play against for fixing your habits cause the way he plays he just really seems to prey on habits (and he's more than willing to exploit you for it over and over again repetitively).

I think that's kinda why playing Tom gets me particularly tight at times cause he just seems to be exclusively preying on habits and it's frustrating when you know someone's going to do something and you fail to stop it lol.

 

[Max?]

I feel like Tom is actually really good to play against for fixing your habits cause the way he plays he just really seems to prey on habits (and he's more than willing to exploit you for it over and over again repetitively).

I think that's kinda why playing Tom gets me particularly tight at times cause he just seems to be exclusively preying on habits and it's frustrating when you know someone's going to do something and you fail to stop it lol.

Yeah that's very true actually. Tom (PC Kip for those of you who don't know) can actually be 1000% harder than Chris on some days lol. People have no idea what camping is until you play his Falco.

 

[boss8]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiQJirmHfUE

watched this a few times....

learned some new **** vs falco..

 

[VGmasta]

And I was fortunate enough to play in Gainesville when it was "stacked". I learned a ton from playing RockCrock, Harriettheguy, Apollo, Iroh, and Mighty Mo to name a few.

I think since Pr0jekt was a Mortal Kombat professional that he discovered the mindset attribute of gaming very early and that's one of the reasons why his learning curve is so good. I think the professional players are the ones that start off with the correct mindset when learning a game which is to play in a defensive manner even when on the offense and to choose options wisely.

So he is the one. I thought I remembered RockCrock saying something about Projekt playing that game. I'd like to play him in some Mortal Kombat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiQJirmHfUE

I see Shroomed has finally opted to use Up-B out of shield now.
And I like how Zhu got salty and insisted on trying to win at Yoshi's, lol. Zhu's start/resets are hilarious.

 

[Max?]

Got to play a ton against Armada, Amsah and Ice the last few days. These guys are so impressive, but they are most of all nice and awesome people. Really refreshing to meet some down to earth smashers as opposed to the usual herbed out *****s I'm accustomed to meeting.

 

[Strong Badam]

so you would say they're quite real, rather than fake?

also max pm me ur number so i can find you tomorrow we NEED to get games in

 

[Max?]

Strong Bad don't you worry you'll find me.

And yeah they are all really awesome guys.

 

[Vyke]

Got to play a ton against Armada, Amsah and Ice the last few days. These guys are so impressive, but they are most of all nice and awesome people. Really refreshing to meet some down to earth smashers as opposed to the usual herbed out *****s I'm accustomed to meeting.

Geez, come to Pittsburgh if you want that. You'll have more practice against dah Swag.

Unknown can attest yo.

 

[Rostigalen]

Good job Shroomed at placing 7th and taking a game from Armada!

Also, OTG, you killed me in teams vs. EggWiz. Last game was TENSE.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

dogy, shroomed is very clearly the best doc. It's not even disputable at all... even max wouldn't argue that. Shroomed has been placing top 8 at the last few nationals/regionals pretty consistently.

anyways, max good **** vs eggwiz. I'm salty that you guys lost to alu and dj. How'd that set go?

 

[Max?]

dogy, shroomed is very clearly the best doc. It's not even disputable at all... even max wouldn't argue that. Shroomed has been placing top 8 at the last few nationals/regionals pretty consistently.

anyways, max good **** vs eggwiz. I'm salty that you guys lost to alu and dj. How'd that set go?

Yeah, Shroomed's clearly the best Doc. Kid took a ****ing game off Armada, you can't **** with that. I feel pretty confident saying Im the 2nd best Doc main, especially after Apex, but that really doesn't mean **** at the end of the day. After this tournament I see what I have to do to improve and I know how to get there, so off to the lab.

DJ went Doc in our set, Alu going Sheik. They just camped us out tbh, and we had a really hard time killing DJ. It was 2-0, both games super close. I'm pretty shocked we did as well as we did overall tbh, PC and I NEVER practice teams. The only practice we got at all was at 2am the night before for about an hour, and then arrived at the venue the next day without any warm up and placed 9th.

GG's to everyone I played, nice meeting all the Docs.

 

[boss8]

yea....fighting shrooms doc is annoying.....

still fun overall...i got u next time dajuan..

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Im 2nd best doc

 

[poega]

Good ****ing job at Apex shroomed, really glad you did so well. It seems like something major has to be figured out in order to beat Hbox; you played tight and were sharp but in the end it just felt like there was no clear path to victory for doc there. Then again, lots of character find themselves in the same situation against hbox.
OTG u were incredible in teams, didn't see anything else. Really sad you didn't make brackets!