Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[VGmasta]

I think the ONLY way to approach Hbox is wait for a chance to fullhop dair or trade fair with his dair. If there's platforms and such nairs can be good as well.

Pretty much this. You could try contesting with b-airs as well. Doc's b-airs are a bit easier to land than anything else.

Sometimes you can get under him and up-air, up-tilt, or up-smash. But it only works if he goes high enough for you to get under him AND if he doesn't decide to retreat as he decides to land back down. Hbox throws out a lot of preemptive b-airs that hit too low for Doc to succesfully approach on the ground.

 

[SmashMac]

U-tilt and dair vs. jiggs. If your pill game is good you can get in. Sadly, unless you d-throw to full jump fair at around 65%, you will get rested.

 

[Max?]

Ooops my fault shroomed, that was so long ago and the only time I watched that match was as it was streamed. Stoner memory aint that great

 

[Tommy Pickles]

fake as ****

 

[Rostigalen]

Hey, when's a good time to use Upsmash OoS?

 

[Max?]

- Whenever someone hits you with a laggy attack
- Whenever someone is coming in from directly above you and you have good timing skills for an anti-air
- Against spacies during their shield pressure after they do aerial -> Shine and are in the midst of jumping for another aerial.
- Whenever you and your opponent are standing right next to one another (they can be in shield or not) and you call them jumping
- In tech chases

Just a few I can think of off the top of my head. Usmash OOS is great and using it will make people respect your OOS game and fear attacking you recklessly, but it is not an end all, be all solution to the problem. Mixing in WD oos to escape shield pressure, aerial oos, UpB oos and even rolling/spot dodging are the keys to effectively utilizing his Usmash. If you do nothing but Usmash oos you will get ***** for it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

On Sheik's f-tilt if she isn't spaced perfectly.

 

[boss8]

On Sheik's f-tilt if she isn't spaced perfectly.

this is tru....but its still shiek xD

 

[Rostigalen]

Thanks for the tips. Time to practice against human beings and not just CPU's then.

 

[Max?]

Caping Ness while he is recovering might be one of the most hilarious things ever.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

that **** actually works?

 

[Max?]

that **** actually works?

To clarify, I'm referring to the time when he is moving the pkt towards his body. While he is in motion with the pkt2 you can only cape him at the very end of the animation, and even then some very jank things can happen. While spectating Mofo vs PCs Mario the other day, PC capes Julians ness at the end of the animation, but it was while Julian was very close to the edge. The cape caused ness to turn around for half a second, and then he flew right back towards the stage, traveling THRU the stage and then popping out of the ground out of nowhere a few seconds later. Julian claims he's seen that happen in the past, so it might be reproducible.

Regardless, jank

 

[BigWenz]

So i ban FoD in almost every match up other then falcon(either falcon will ban it for me or no real threat of being counterpicked to FoD), because i honestly just hate that damm stage(first main was falcon). Are their any match ups in which you think banning another stage instead of FoD would be extremely benefical or as a doc main its not a big deal if i just ban FoD in every match up?

 

[Max?]

Yoshi's vs Marth
Stadium/DL vs Spacies (pick your poison, I'd rather go to Stadium)
Bigger Stages vs characters who are faster than you


etc etc

The only person I would think banning FoD would be good against is Peach, because she runs that stage with an iron fist and you can't run away from her and be annoying like you can on other stages.

 

[Shroomed]

Ban stadium vs marth imo. Cant tech the ledge sometimes. I ban dreamland vs peach. Stadium is docs second best stage.

 

[Max?]

Also for those of you haven't seen yet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TaBCttBnfM

Game 2, tho the rest of the sets good too.


I have a bunch of vids of drunkenTG coming out soon.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

someone explain the falco match up

 

[VGmasta]

I have a bunch of vids of drunkenTG coming out soon.

I'm just wondering why you opted to cape Fox/Falco as they are landing from their Up-B when they've already made it over the ledge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcAa7cVZ-m0#t=2m15s

There's no way the cape would knock them back far enough to push them off stage. Why not just b-air them back out or up-air to combo into another hit instead?

 

[Max?]

I'm just wondering why you opted to cape Fox/Falco as they are landing from their Up-B when they've already made it over the ledge:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcAa7cVZ-m0#t=2m15s

There's no way the cape would knock them back far enough to push them off stage. Why not just b-air them back out or up-air to combo into another hit instead?

That's a good call, tho to be fair I was pretty ****ing drunk throughout the whole day.

 

[Shibbypod]

Hey guys. I made a video for you. K thanks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxKyuYy_TfA

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

if u full jump pill forward vs falco as an approach

don't pill in place unless its ground pills

use pills like he would lasers

cape them lasers back to

if u feel to pressured

instead sheild to aviod it, it only amps it up (sometimes you have to sheild, but dont live in the bubble)

just be whack and run away to reset the tempo

and as to why im giving advice, i have no clue, surfing the web and just thought it would be help someone i guess.

ps wavedash back does wonders LOOL

 

[boss8]

if u full jump pill forward vs falco as an approach

don't pill in place unless its ground pills

use pills like he would lasers

cape them lasers back to

if u feel to pressured

instead sheild to aviod it, it only amps it up (sometimes you have to sheild, but dont live in the bubble)

just be whack and run away to reset the tempo

and as to why im giving advice, i have no clue, surfing the web and just thought it would be help someone i guess.

ps wavedash back does wonders LOOL

good look....

 

[Max?]

Goddamn Hax is way too good. He punishes so hard off of my mistakes and is so efficient with movement, I don't even know if I took a game off him yesterday....

Anyone have good Falcon advice? I'm mostly looking at you Shroomed. I think I'm pretty good at the matchup, I ***** Nando all last night and have a good record vs. Falcons in tournament, but Hax is just something else.

Halp?

 

[Shroomed]

Bob$ told me backair to stuff a bunch of his moves.

 

[VGmasta]

I mean it is Falcon. And if we're talking about fighting Hax... At the highest level of play Falcon kinda runs circles around Doc. Mostly because Falcon's in and out game overwhelms Doc. And Doc's not really allowed to full jump vs Falcon.

What specific troubles did you have vs Hax?

 

[SmashMac]

Just use your tilts and don't cape his up+B unless it's far from the edge of the stage or you're sure he can't grab it with his reverse sweet-spot. Don't stay inside your shield 'cause he'll grab you and if you're above 85% and he hits you thrice and it's over when he d-throws you unless you got alien DI. Either way if you DJ after his d-throw any above average Falcon player will just read your jump and now you're double screwed. Falcon's gonna approach with nair more often than not and Doc's u-tilt should have good priority against that. Know your pills and bob$ bair edge-guard game too. Take him to FoD he shouldn't like that stage. Then again, it's Hax so I'm sure he has compensated for his character weaknesses with his own strengths and situational experiences as a player.

 

[Shroomed]

When Falcon dthrows you, always DI hard away and spam c-stick uair. At worst you should trade. It will probably get you out of a lot of dthrow knees though. Falcon needs to be near frame perfect to hit you with the (strong) knee.

 

[VGmasta]

When Falcon dthrows you, always DI hard away and spam c-stick uair. At worst you should trade. It will probably get you out of a lot of dthrow knees though. Falcon needs to be near frame perfect to hit you with the (strong) knee.

And also pray that the Falcon doesn't expect you to DI hard away and decide to f-throw you. DI away f-throw sends you far as **** if you're at to high a percent by the edge.

 

[Max?]

One of the biggest problems I encountered was dealing with the onslaught of uairs following an uthrow. At low % it seems tough to DI out of and racks up a ton of damage, plus now he's below you and that's just bad news..

I was fine once I landed hits, but he's very good in neutral position so landing sollid hits was tough. He's also very good at dealing with Doc's recovery and I found him cutting right through my pills with bairs and well spaced uairs. I noticed Utilt seemed really effective for stuffing out a lot of his stuff when we're both right next to one another, it grounds him at midish% and sets up for stuff, and yeah bair/uair seems to be pretty much the only safe options in neutral position. I think my big issue is mostly DI related... can't be dying at 80% and having him live to 120 every stock.

Good **** on the advice, Imma put in that work

 

[VGmasta]

He's also very good at dealing with Doc's recovery and I found him cutting right through my pills with bairs and well spaced uairs.

Yeah, the up-airs are pretty stupid. They prohibit Doc from going in the air at all. Not even allowed to RECOVER through the air, smh.

I don't really have a solution for what to do about being above the Falcon just yet. I just try my best to stay grounded.

Those up-tilts and f-tilts are good answers to most of Falcon approaches. F-tilts because they break up Falcon's dashdances and can keep him from running away so freely. Sadly, the f-tilts are easily countered by Falcon's shorthop game.

Up-tilt as you probably realized already, counters most of Falcon's shorthop game and can often land Falcon in big trouble if he gets stuck above your up-tilts with no jumps left.

If it was truly the up-airs and throws giving you the trouble against Hax, I'd try finding a way to avoid getting grab and experimenting with different ways of Di-ing the throws if he happens to get the grabs. Although, I'm not sure exactly how Hax got the grabs to begin with. But I think the solution lies there. Figure out what he did to get grabs on you, and look for a way of countering that.

You got this OTG, now go back and show Hax how tough Doc really is

 

[Max?]

He got grabs mostly just by reading me, but it wasn't even grabs persay, just him launching me at low % and juggling the balls off me. He also makes dthrow -> knee seem pretty guaranteed

 

[Shroomed]

What's making you die at 80%? The edgeguards or what? Mix in airdodging to recover.

 

[Max?]

Just losing my jump and getting kneed around that %. Like I said, the kid lands knees like its his job and I counted a number of stocks where I was at mid %, got launched, got my DJ baited and then died for it. It's so scary being above Falcon, especially when their like... mad good lol

 

[Strong Badam]

I feel you Doc bros on this one. I keep losing to Falcons but beating like Sheik's and Falcos.
I ban FD against Falcon and use platforms to try to escape from combos. Might not work as well w/ Doc because he's a bit floatier but hey it's worth a shot. Also, U-air is good for getting out of combos but also don't forget about n-air; it hits frame 3. I also like to throw in DJ airdodge to get out of combos sometimes, just don't get predicted or you can get rabed.

 

[Max?]

I just gotta sit down with Aziz for a long time. Give me an hour with him and I'll be grinding out W's.

 

[Shroomed]

Later today ill begin writing a somewhat in depth guide to fighting sheik, peach, marth, fox, falco, and falcon. I'm mostly doing it to analyze my own gameplay, but maybe you guys will benefit from it as well.

I'm still working on going to Apex, but I have to get a new computer for college first. Don't quite know how much money I'll have left.

 

[boss8]

yea...i need to stop doing the same tactics....i dnt have anyone to play...

so...eh

 

[VGmasta]

Later today ill begin writing a somewhat in depth guide to fighting sheik, peach, marth, fox, falco, and falcon. I'm mostly doing it to analyze my own gameplay, but maybe you guys will benefit from it as well.

Really?? Interesting... Can't wait to see it

 

[Max?]

Later today ill begin writing a somewhat in depth guide to fighting sheik, peach, marth, fox, falco, and falcon. I'm mostly doing it to analyze my own gameplay, but maybe you guys will benefit from it as well.

I'm still working on going to Apex, but I have to get a new computer for college first. Don't quite know how much money I'll have left.

Swag, I'm definitely interested in reading it. Can't wait to see what you have for us when it's done.

yea...i need to stop doing the same tactics....i dnt have anyone to play...

so...eh

You coming to ROM? Move to NY.

 

[VGmasta]

He got grabs mostly just by reading me, but it wasn't even grabs persay, just him launching me at low % and juggling the balls off me. He also makes dthrow -> knee seem pretty guaranteed

I guess my only question left to you is, what is he "launching" you with? Grab? N-air? Or is it d-air?