otg
Smash Master
Doc may be bad, but after playing Hbox pretty much all day yesterday I'm CONVINCED that Doc is her worst matchup.... that or I'm just exceptional at this game.
Or both.
Or both.
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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
- Start date
Rykard
Smash Ace
VGmasta
Smash Lord
I think Doc only wins over Fox in the matchup at punishing missed Rest at early percents. And if Doc is fighting a really good Puff (HungryBox), Doc won't even get the luxury of punishing Rests that often. Other than that Doc doesn't have to worry about the uptilt -> Rest as much as Fox would. I doubt Doc ever has to worry about upthrow -> Rest. So Fox has to work carefully at not getting grabbed, which is easier said than done because of Jigg's grab range is not that bad and the tech skill requirement for Fox is pretty high.
I not sure if Doc really is Puff's worse matchup. I think Fox might be worse for Jigglypuff than Doc. Fox has wayy more speed than Doc and I think it helps him to get around Jiggs stuff alot easier. And Fox's upsmash is too good vs Jiggs. Doc's pills only travel medium distance and can be nullified as long as the pills are attacked. Fox's lasers go across the entire stage at such a fast pace and gives damage whether the Puff attacks the lasers or not. I guess it would feel more evenish for Doc if he had a bit more running speed.
StealthyGunnar
Smash Champion
I hate Puff. Floaty, can't chaingrab, just gay all around.
Naota21t
Smash Champion
I love playing puff. It's all about controlling the middle of the stage, as long as you don't lose that the match up is Doc's IMO.
It's a little tricky to kill puff but somehow I don't have too much trouble because she's usually forced to approach you, and the aggression makes it easier to get in a nair to kill.
dthrow to fair is hard at first. especially when the DI behind you. I usually uair or bair for damage.
It's a little tricky to kill puff but somehow I don't have too much trouble because she's usually forced to approach you, and the aggression makes it easier to get in a nair to kill.
dthrow to fair is hard at first. especially when the DI behind you. I usually uair or bair for damage.
*watches as people finally start catching on to an old as f*** concept*
and not the you're exeptional part, cause you're complaining about missing text book dunks.
Rest punish: Realize this.
If Doc is better at punishing at earlier percents, then doc is better at punishing rests periods. Why? Because at later percents, punishing rests = death.
Doc can get puff CLEAN INTO DEATH % FROM A MISSED REST AT %. Fox cant do that.
Done.
__
As for Fox being "better vs puff" than Doc. Here's some things to consider.
1) Even though Fox has more mobility, better killing options, and a better keep-away game from puff than Doc overall, Fox always has into more liabilities if and when he gets caught. (TL;DR Puff has a variety of ways to land rest of Fox, and REALLY only 1 on Doc).
2) If and when Puff gets them off the stage, Fox HAS to somehow make puff miss and recover before puff gets a second chance. Inspite of how much worse Doc's recovery is compared to Fox OVERALL, Doc can atleast fight puff during his recovery on top of making her miss.
3) While Fox's Lasers are immediate light damage to Puff, they don't directly DO anything to deter puff from doing something. Doc's pills, while not being immediate damage, cause puff to response to them IN SOME WAY. Be it swing through them (which you can go behind and hit), go around them, (which allows you to move or even attack), or get hit for more damage than a laser, they cause responses. It ultimately boils down to preference for these, my point is that DOc's pills are as threatening, if not more, than a barrage of lasers.
I mean, dont get me started on the list of "that's not melee" answers to why Doc does better than Fox. LOL
VGmasta
Smash Lord
Well, HungryBox is really good. Oh well, I was rooting for OTG's Dr Mario to actually take him down. Oh well, HBox lives in Florida like 2.5 hours away from where I am. I'm bound to play him again sometime. Maybe I'LL beat him next time, lol.
Did OTG vs HBox get recorded?! Who did Hazz use against OTG?!
hazzard went fox, marth, and then fox again
otg was desperately trying to accomplish something vs hbox but to no avail
but it was good **** tho
proud of him
otg was desperately trying to accomplish something vs hbox but to no avail
but it was good **** tho
proud of him
Rykard
Smash Ace
I wish i could have gone to the biweekly but i had a grad party to go to for my best friend. I can't keep letting OTG get all the doc glory in tristate lol
Roman.
Smash Champion
definitely disagree
fox's lasers can:
1.) make most puffs start camping the ledge
2.) makes darc crouch wavedash and i've seen him get punished a billion times
3.) force puff to get her fat *** to the other side of the stage to try and scare/stop the fox from lasering
4.) *warning, this is dogysamich logic* they will continue to camp aerials, totally unaffected by the "light damage" racking up her fat ***
but what i do think gives doc's pills the real upper hand is that getting hit by a pill will turn around a bair spamming puff
approach... now?
otg
Smash Master
I just have to quote this to LOL at myself so hard. I got *****, you guys will see. Def got sandbagged in friendlies lol, w'e tho. I'mma tap next time, right Juan?
lol that **** was fcking dumb.
This is correct, but since I won I gotta get the **** out the country. I'm ****ed, seriously, Idk wtf is going to happen to me if the cops catch me. then again... it could all work out right? I coudl quit smoking weed, get a real job and pay my taxes........ but ****, I'm totally screwed, I gotta get the **** out. Yedi I have an extra ticket son you shoud come with me. then again tho..... the cops might not even know about me yet and I could start clean in a different city or country..... NAH **** IT IM SCREWED I GOTTA GET THE **** OUT.
This could easily go on for hours.
but you know, you almost beat hungrybox son so maybe you should stay yur pretty good at this game at all. you could prolly make a career out of smash you know, doing stuff you love, and kicking it with tarzan
otg
Smash Master
Yo tarzan and I have been hanging out with Skinhoff and the fake PC Chris (aka the real PC Chris) for a long *** time. Where's grandpa alu?
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,564
played some Doc at a smashfest in denver, colorado. did pretty well. i didn't pill very often, because players here were smart (a rare breed of meleer these days) and so they didn't really work, but I still did pretty well. this whole trip has helped me realize that I really need to start focusing on playing intelligently rather than in a flashy fashion, because when I tried to play smart, I did SO much better.
make a Doc back room and only post it there?
StealthyGunnar
Smash Champion
Doooo iiiit. Don't you want Docs to start winning tournies? With this GROUND-BREAKING TECHNIQUE, Jiggs doesn't stand a chance.
So wait, you WANT puff camping the ledge as fox?.... lol. Ya know they're trying to get that tactic BANNED.
Nobody HAS to approach through fox's lasers. The only thing that really HAS to be done is you'd have to move if they were ground lasering on the same level you're on.
Most people don't do that because "that's not melee". *rolls eyes*
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I meant to actually do those bit by bit, but then I had a flashback of what happens when I try to explain something to you.
__
Again, while Doc's pills dont get immediate damage, puff cant do something like go back to the ledge and do something about them.
no.
*sigh*Doooo iiiit. Don't you want Docs to start winning tournies? With this GROUND-BREAKING TECHNIQUE, Jiggs doesn't stand a chance.
No, doc is not a character I have any character favoritism for, so I don't really care too much.
Infact, lately, It's been boggling my mind why melee is the ONLY game where I really only play 1 main. The one game in the one country that literally lives by counterpicking, and for whatever reason I play 1 character.
*shrug*
Desh
Smash Ace
Wtf I come by to lurk and we're still discussing fox?
Goddamit.
Goddamit.
otg
Smash Master
JPOBS
Smash Hero
pill pill pill
nair or something
kobe
doc > puff
nair or something
kobe
doc > puff
Roman.
Smash Champion
i was only trying to show you that fox's lasers do deter puffs from doing their routine match when you said it does nothing
and what flashback?
Niko45
Smash Master
Fox's lasers are so overrated. I'll gladly trade 10-15% for stage control in any matchup.
VGmasta
Smash Lord
Yeah I took in account that whole ledge camping tactic and it was the ONLY reason I didn't vote Fox's lasers to be the winning projectile over Doc's pills altogether.
That REST was hilarious. And the Doc combo was ********, lol!
Isn't that Mang0's theory? Too bad for us the matchup's not that cut and dry.
Dogy, didnt you tell us like a year ago that you only mained one character because maining additional characters would take too much or something.
otg
Smash Master
You have no idea. The video will not do justice to what took place in the crowd during that match. I hope the commentary somehow picked up the crowd reaction.
Shroomed
Smash Master
so uh, i retract my statement of marth being easy
he's total bull****
at the tourney yesterday i got whooped by SS, then lost to kevin(pewpewu)
it might've turned out diff vs pewpewu if i didnt upB backwards at 27% but now i'll never know
how do you beat a falcon that you can't read?
marth standing there SH fairing was pretty gay
anybody got suggestions?
he's total bull****
at the tourney yesterday i got whooped by SS, then lost to kevin(pewpewu)
it might've turned out diff vs pewpewu if i didnt upB backwards at 27% but now i'll never know
how do you beat a falcon that you can't read?
marth standing there SH fairing was pretty gay
anybody got suggestions?
VGmasta
Smash Lord
I told you.... I told you.... I... told you that Marth matchup sucks.
As for trying to get around SH f-airs. I just try doing what works. But the stuff that does work largely depends on what the Marth does after the f-air. I find myself making guesstimates about what Marth does next.
So like if I read Marth to follow up with another SH f-air, I'll try to roll behind it.
If I read him to d-tilt, I simply SH f-air.
If I read him to air-jump (it's g@y that they can air-jump out of a SH f-air) I'll try up-airing.
If I read him to dash dance away, I'll either wavedash in with a f-tilt or d-smash, or I'll wavedash in with a pill to break Marth's dash dance and get a possible free 6-8% damage.
Marth's a g@y guessing game. And Marth's f-air is such a good setup vs Doc because it's hard to land an attack that beats Marth's f-air consistently.
As for beating a hard-to-read Falcon, that's another guesstimate matchup. But it's not as bad a Marth in my opinion since Falcon's an easier edgeguard/gimp, chaingrab-able, more combo-able than Marth. And it's easier for me to bait Falcon into committing a move than Marth.
Roman.
Smash Champion
nair trades with marth
then you're in
then you're in
Shroomed
Smash Master
fixed your post
i jus look for a hole to uair or fair through after i wavedash away from his sword swiping my shield for free
Roman.
Smash Champion
unless the marth is sweetspotting every time... it'll still trade (the sword counts as a part of marth)
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
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the sword definitely does not count as marth, you dumb ****, else when I hit his sword i'd hit marth.
vs. a smart marth, doc can't get in easily.
vs. a smart marth, doc can't get in easily.
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
i want to sig this
Roman.
Smash Champion
i thought you could grab marth's sword?
otg
Smash Master
lol, Doc would ****ing counter marth then.
You can grab marth when he overextends his body for a move animation like Fsmash, and even Dtilt when he sticks his hand out really far.
Shroomed
Smash Master
ur disc must be jacked up cuz the sword doesn't count as marth at all
he doesnt need to have the fairs be tipper either, if he spaces it far enough you can't do anything cept wavedash bak
he doesnt need to have the fairs be tipper either, if he spaces it far enough you can't do anything cept wavedash bak
Naota21t
Smash Champion
i was playing bob$'s marth a bit yesterday as doc. i dthrew him at 0 percent, uair'd then regrabbed.
i did it like 3 times in one combo starting at 0.
is that a legit combo? or was he just not DIing?
i did it like 3 times in one combo starting at 0.
is that a legit combo? or was he just not DIing?
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,564
From which coast is Bob$? The answer to your question lies in the answer to mine.
Dynamism?
Smash Champion
LOL
Falcon is tough. I straight up don't commit to anything for the whole match if I know it's not 100%. It's boring though, so I've never gone more than 1 stock of epic **** before I decide to try approaching or something fun. LOL
Dash attacking Marth isn't THAT bad when he's Fair walling. Aside from that, gayness.
That's my thoughts on that stuffziez
Shroomed
Smash Master
he can fair your dash attack if he's not doing a rising fair
Rykard
Smash Ace
can't you just like crouch cancel downsmash the fairs if they aren't being tippered at lower percents? you can probably try and bait an approach like that with your pills since marth knows he can just fair right through them. To me, you just have to stay either level with marth or below him to have the best chance cause there is nothing you can do to get around his uptilt once you are in the air