Shroomed
Smash Master
stayin level with him he still ***** you
i think the only real safe place is undernearth him....but it's retardedly hard to get there
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
- Start date
i think the only real safe place is undernearth him....but it's retardedly hard to get there
Rykard
Smash Ace
Well Marth doesn't like to be on top
in my opinion, avoiding FDis a good idea against marth even though it is generally considered Doc's best stage. I feel like Yoshi's is even a better option than that but my best bet would be Dreamland or Kongo Jungle as a CP if we are talking tournament strategy.
in my opinion, avoiding FDis a good idea against marth even though it is generally considered Doc's best stage. I feel like Yoshi's is even a better option than that but my best bet would be Dreamland or Kongo Jungle as a CP if we are talking tournament strategy.
VGmasta
Smash Lord
Why Kongo Jungle? Can't Marth get away with that d-tilt edgeguard easier there?
Shroomed
Smash Master
i picked kongo jungle this past weekend and it was goin pretty good
since doc goes pretty high when hit off stage he can air dodge to the top platform as a second option =)
since doc goes pretty high when hit off stage he can air dodge to the top platform as a second option =)
Rykard
Smash Ace
Well sure, you give up your ability to tech, but any stage without a solid ledge sets up for an easy cape generally. If the marth goes high and up's on the tree, you can punish the lag FAIRly easily (get it?). the uneven ground also allows for some interesting pill angles and can generally mess up a Marth's double fair approach if he is in the middle of the stage. I'm sure there are other things people can think of, but in my opinion, this is one of the most underused counterpicks and it really doesn't hurt Doc so much
Edit:
every platform on that stage cannot be reached unless marth is in the air except for maybe the rotating ones in the middle. This is where having a downward projectile comes on handy
Edit:
every platform on that stage cannot be reached unless marth is in the air except for maybe the rotating ones in the middle. This is where having a downward projectile comes on handy
Shroomed
Smash Master
kongo jungle's ability to accelerate pills is ****in amazing
Niko45
Smash Master
Learn doc's wavedash -> jab range. It ***** Marth. Basically you should be either wavedashing in and CCing whatever Marth does in order to give yourself a close range opportunity. If you find that Marth is spamming dtilt, approach with fair. You may respond with Marth's retreating/stationary fair covers all options, but if Marth starts being predictable with fairs, or if Marth leaves the ground at all in general, you can time an approach around that. If not, bait him to fair or do something, because the truth is Marth really doesn't want to approach you at all, he wants you to rush him.
I also noticed playing DJ's Doc that if you full jump pill from a very solid distance (this was on FD) off the bounce the pills can actually arc up over Marth's jab and then drop in on him. This gave me fits for a second but then I realized Marth can move to avoid the pill but still, Marth moving helps limit his ability to wall you out so you might be able to capitalize on it. Just something to keep in mind.
I also noticed playing DJ's Doc that if you full jump pill from a very solid distance (this was on FD) off the bounce the pills can actually arc up over Marth's jab and then drop in on him. This gave me fits for a second but then I realized Marth can move to avoid the pill but still, Marth moving helps limit his ability to wall you out so you might be able to capitalize on it. Just something to keep in mind.
So today was a s***load of EVO, watchin that "Lols how the **** these 2 make it" called the world cup, alpha and DP came by and played some Melee, some SSF4, and Super Mario Bros Wii - Lost Levels (MAN F THAT NONSENSE BTW, LOL).
For the record, EVO has been the truth this year. omg so much big s*** in and out of games.
But yeah, it obviously takes MORE time to play more than 1 main, gotta learn more matchups, but I kinda think that's why I haven't really given too much of a **** about melee lately. It's like, I know matchups, I just have to watch me slip behind the meta cause I don't have constant competent practice to be able to deal with the current stuff.
(Which, yeah, after the last few times playing with columbus, I've realized why I feel so bad when I play all the time. I can't keep up with the meta. And like, people fall for my ****, but I resort to putting my shield up too much and im absolutely horrid at doing any kind of raw offense.)
But like, I've stopped and kinda looked at everything else I like to play and I'm like "hell, if and when I sit down to play, it's not me just droning over 1 character to get stuff improved, It's like, 2+ (depending on the game).
2) you can try to bait and approach, but what you said is literally a marth who don't know the matchup scenario. Not to say it dont work, but marth actually has alot of safe ways to deal with pills, even with approaching.
I'll let you say no FD, that's player by player, but YS BETTER? Um.
Alot of marth mains have told me they don't like DL64, some go as far as to ban it.
Apparently you're not used to that from where you're from.
* ^5's all the non-west coast people * Yeah guys! I made a west coast DI joke, I'm kool.
Thanks for the advice.
I kinda wanna disagree with you, but I see exactly what you're talking about. Not to mention you're on the other side of the matchup.
Regardless, still 'pprecaite it.
For the record, EVO has been the truth this year. omg so much big s*** in and out of games.
Not that I remember. I might have said that like a ******, I might have changed my mind since then.
But yeah, it obviously takes MORE time to play more than 1 main, gotta learn more matchups, but I kinda think that's why I haven't really given too much of a **** about melee lately. It's like, I know matchups, I just have to watch me slip behind the meta cause I don't have constant competent practice to be able to deal with the current stuff.
(Which, yeah, after the last few times playing with columbus, I've realized why I feel so bad when I play all the time. I can't keep up with the meta. And like, people fall for my ****, but I resort to putting my shield up too much and im absolutely horrid at doing any kind of raw offense.)
But like, I've stopped and kinda looked at everything else I like to play and I'm like "hell, if and when I sit down to play, it's not me just droning over 1 character to get stuff improved, It's like, 2+ (depending on the game).
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF LOl.
Correct.
1) yeah you can CC d.smash is they dont space right or you force bad spacing, but there are things they can do to get around it, and it's easier for them to see you try to CC than it is you to see them f.air.
2) you can try to bait and approach, but what you said is literally a marth who don't know the matchup scenario. Not to say it dont work, but marth actually has alot of safe ways to deal with pills, even with approaching.
Um. What?
I'll let you say no FD, that's player by player, but YS BETTER? Um.
Alot of marth mains have told me they don't like DL64, some go as far as to ban it.
That's called good DI.
Apparently you're not used to that from where you're from.
* ^5's all the non-west coast people * Yeah guys! I made a west coast DI joke, I'm kool.
Thanks for the advice.
I kinda wanna disagree with you, but I see exactly what you're talking about. Not to mention you're on the other side of the matchup.
Regardless, still 'pprecaite it.
Niko45
Smash Master
Idk if FD is better, but I love FD vs doc because there's no platforms so I treat him like sheik and upthrow him and try to steal DJ, then combo ****.
YS actually makes me nervous because doc gimps off stage marth soo well and its easy to get off stage there.
DL64 is fine because doc can get platform camped there easily. Marth loses his up throw -> **** stuff there tho because top platform is (relatively) safe.
YS actually makes me nervous because doc gimps off stage marth soo well and its easy to get off stage there.
DL64 is fine because doc can get platform camped there easily. Marth loses his up throw -> **** stuff there tho because top platform is (relatively) safe.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,564
if you're going to CC a smash against Marth, it better be at low %ages and it better be an upsmash. dsmash will just go under them if they're spacing their fairs right.
watch Marth's attack pattern, pick up on habits, keep your movement fluid, and approach with waveftilts and bairs/nairs.
watch Marth's attack pattern, pick up on habits, keep your movement fluid, and approach with waveftilts and bairs/nairs.
VGmasta
Smash Lord
Yeah, I only counterpick Yoshi Story vs. Marth if I feel like they're just roasting marshmallows over campfire (spamming dashdance and retreating f-airs) so I can close space against them easier.
I like DreamLand 64 over Final Destination because Marth has an easier time landing combos and I feel that the platforms benefit me more than Marth.
EDIT:
I really like Shroomed's signature a lot more now. It's got that black theme to it now. That white and blue stuff was randomly driving me nuts.
HOLY S*** SIG DONT NEED TO BE THAT BIG SIR.
Alright, I made it smaller
I like DreamLand 64 over Final Destination because Marth has an easier time landing combos and I feel that the platforms benefit me more than Marth.
I was the masta of Super Mario Bros. The Lost Levels had some wacky stages.
That's called good DI.
Apparently you're not used to that from where you're from.
* ^5's all the non-west coast people * Yeah guys! I made a west coast DI joke, I'm kool.
EDIT:
I really like Shroomed's signature a lot more now. It's got that black theme to it now. That white and blue stuff was randomly driving me nuts.
HOLY S*** SIG DONT NEED TO BE THAT BIG SIR.
Alright, I made it smaller
Roman.
Smash Champion
watch the marth boards go:
"cc doc's approach and you have whatever option you'd like to use depending on the %"
k, now what do we do against this marth?
HomeMadeWaffles
Smash Lord
hey luis
yea it works
hey dajuan
if kevins playin like that
there nothing you can really do
but bait him to move
and use platforms
whatever gets him from spamming aerials in one spot
yea it works
hey dajuan
if kevins playin like that
there nothing you can really do
but bait him to move
and use platforms
whatever gets him from spamming aerials in one spot
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,564
i always crouch cancel while in the air
Dynamism?
Smash Champion
That's why I like dash attack. If he rises with one, I like to try it.
Something like dashing towards him when he comes down, wding in place just out of range to bait a riser then dash attacking. :/
I donno, it's too tough.
Don't approach.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,564
i know I already responded to this, but I'm still pissed. you took that one part out of my whole sentence, which loses the sentences meaning. ****. why the **** did you do that.
WATCH MARTH AND APPROACH WHEN HE CAN'T CROUCH CANCEL. IT'S NOT HARD. EVERYONE HAS HABITS AND YOU WATCH YOUR OPPONENT'S CHARACTER TO PICK UP ON THEM AND CAPITALIZE ON THEM.
StealthyGunnar
Smash Champion
Well, guys: I'll be going to my first tourney on Friday. And I'll be representing Doc. Any tips you guys have to train? (on CPU's)
Shroomed
Smash Master
the only thing you can use CPU's for is to practice tech skill
get a few friends to play with occasionally....thats how i got good
then again occasionally was like mon-fri lol
get a few friends to play with occasionally....thats how i got good
then again occasionally was like mon-fri lol
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
near ledge: fthrow at 15% to falloff dj uair to eat their double jump to reverse upb gimps cfal guaranteed. cpu all day baby
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
practice ptp cuz you gon be recoverin a lot
jk but minnesota really? what tournament? i cant find any threads in midwest... if its brawl+melee and in MN theres a slim chance i can convince some WI brawl guys to take me lol. are you going to ECSS2 next weekend? cause ill be at that like fo sho
StealthyGunnar
Smash Champion
Not a big tourney. Games 'N Go at Rosedale Mall. Probably 10-20 people going. I think Flux Wolf is going, and I'm pretty sure Triple R is going too. Haven't met them irl yet. Should be fun, and I'll get to learn a lot.
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
oh dang, just found the thread on mnsmash. Yea if it's melee only there's like no way im gonna find a ride to this. You should def go to ECSS2 tho, its not even 2 hours away from GnG
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,564
flux wolf sucks, i beat him with dk before i was kinda sorta good.
Shroomed
Smash Master
in norcal, there's ALWAYS at least 5 people that are capable of winning the tournament lol
there's no such thing as an easy victory out here
there's no such thing as an easy victory out here
otg
Smash Master
You guys should watch me get ***** by hungrybox on prog's channel.
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
you trollin
StealthyGunnar
Smash Champion
When and where?
VGmasta
Smash Lord
Doc only counters a Jiggs that misses Rests, not any player like HungryBox who's godly at landing Rests.
Saw the video, I'd have to watch that video again to analyze how he was landing hits on you to begin with. But those Pokemon Stadium walltech -> Rest combos, I saw them combo a thousand miles away after he missed the Rests in there. Like I've seen that before, it's still impressive though. I love how HungryBox was actually taking stocks in tournament matches with taunts -> Rests.
Anyways, I just saw Shroomed walltech at least 11 times in one match against Bob$'s Marth. That's match ups pretty garbage no doubt. The only advice I can give about those situations is to like mix up in-place walltechs with other wall teching maneuvers.
There's walltech jump. From there you could airdodge onto the stage, or try sweetspotting an Up-B, or try ledgeteching again. ALL of the recovery tactics I can come up with are punishable, but the point is to adapt to the situation for someone that's just spamming f-smashes in one place. It's a valid attempt to throw off your opponent's timing.
have you SEEN mangos post???!?!?
VGmasta
Smash Lord
Yeah, too bad the matchup aint that cut-n-dry for Doc now in the current metagame. I'd beast HungryBox no problem if landing a few pills and a couple of aerials, then d-throw->f-air were that easy.
otg
Smash Master
Ricky, Doc definitely has the best matchup vs. Jiggs in the game. I played terribly vs. Hbox in tourney. I missed a free rest punish, handled the last stock on PS terribly and just in general played way too aggressively. There were a number of moments where I would land a quick 2 hit combo and should've just reset and gone back to playing like a homo. Instead I opted go for a fair or some dumb **** and would get ***** for it.
Idk, I think DJ played the matchup much better then me. Now granted, he's like the most homo player on the planet, so he's destined to do well vs. campy Jiggs, but a big part of why he did well was because of the audience trolling Hbox so hard during those matches. He literally couldn't stop laughing and put the controller down at multiple points in the set. Still 2-0ed him tho.
Idk, I think DJ played the matchup much better then me. Now granted, he's like the most homo player on the planet, so he's destined to do well vs. campy Jiggs, but a big part of why he did well was because of the audience trolling Hbox so hard during those matches. He literally couldn't stop laughing and put the controller down at multiple points in the set. Still 2-0ed him tho.
Shroomed
Smash Master
i suck at sweetspotting.....im scared to try tech->airdodge cuz i feel like im jus gonna mess up and die but i'll work on both of those i guess
i lost because i couldnt edgeguard at all because i suck
i lost because i couldnt edgeguard at all because i suck
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
erm... fast fall your wall techs. m2k's marth couldnt edgeguard me when i did this :I
StealthyGunnar
Smash Champion
Thanks. I think this'll help. Also, when and where was that tourney you were telling me about?