Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[unknown522]

let's do it. how much/what char?

 

[Shroomed]

I got 3-0'd by Shiz in losers semis

in other news, I beat hugs in our first time playing

and I beat lovage, pink shinobi and I lost to Phil
got 4th, once again RITE UNDER MONEY

 

[KirbyKaze]

lol losing to phil

that sounds really weird

beat hugs, beat ps, beat lovage

lose to phil

like lol wtf?

edit: not to discredit phil -- i just thought lovage was better. does phil just **** the doc matchup or something? or chokesies? come on shroomed, bring me the juicy details. nothing happens in toronto so i must live vicariously through you.

 

[Dogysamich]

*slams fist on table* F***ing. 3rd. again. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU -headasplode-

And I'm extra mad cause I had 2nd, and like, just lost. I didn't choke (imo), and I didn't get outplayed, it just did what I thought I was supposed to and it didnt work out. -punches wall-

RAAAAAAAAAGE.

_____

I did learn some stuff, though, so it all works out.

1) I'm probably going to have to change my CF ban to Rainbow Cruise. The capfal i played first round (who's an aight guy, not spectacular, but not bad by any stretch), took me to RC. I actually cringed at that cause, well, nobody's thought to take me to RC since G4S5 (which was ... 2 or 3 years ago? Whatever december before brawl came out). Needless to say I felt like I was about to lose that match. Haven't touched the stage in years, so i had to come up with a strat on the fly. I got a better idea of how it works but man that was just kinda scary for a bit. XD

2) Ever play so defensive and so safe that it's a fault? If you don't know the answer to this, you might wanna watch your play (or have somebody competent analyze your play) and see if that's the case. I just HAPPENED to be looking at the vids from 2 weeks ago and FMM said I was "Defensive as ****, especially compared to shroomed". I mean yeah, I knew I liked to move and run alot, but I didn't think i was super defensive. Then I looked at those vids and analyzed what I was doing. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah so defensive it was hurting me. Didn't even realize I'd gone that far down. You're not always going to win if all you're really doing is looking for mistakes, gotta recognize if that's what you're doing.

3) I get what Romen asked me last year, and it's a pretty good question I'll have to look into. "How is Doc supposed to beat a camping fox?" Yeah, that's what Yay did to me, and I was like, 1 hit away from winning all 3 games in WF, but it just felt odd. I got some ideas, but I gotta look around. And when I say camping fox, i mean real camping foxes. Not no Jmans and Uuaas. No, contrary to popular belief, those 2 really don't camp.

4) *The 18spikes special* So I've come to the conclusion that I'ma have to let FD go. If for nothing else, but it's a **** fact that everybody's gunna ban it against me now (Except for FMM, who refuses to play me on a stage I'm never gunna CP anyway (DL64)). But to make matters worse, I played some friendlies with Merc's ganon (one of his mains), of all the games we played, he scraped my *** on FD. Like, I don't even know what-went-wrong scraped.

THAT'S IT FOR DOGY'S RANDOM RANTS. OFF TO PLAY SC4 AND THE NEW RE5 DLC!

__

edit: Gotta collect on my all-in.

I got 3-0'd by Shiz in losers semis

^^^ Doubles Up! ^^^

 

[ranmaru]

"You're not always going to win if all you're really doing is looking for mistakes, gotta recognize if that's what you're doing. "

But, isn't that kinda good too? I mean, depending on the character, if doc makes a mistake as opposed to the opponent, can't the punishment be much worse depending on that character? So, defending yourself and hanging in there until you find the mistakes might be a valid strat? Instead of trying to go a little aggresive and find out getting hurt is a *****.

Like, if I were ness, and I was playing a shiek, I'd rather camp and look for mistakes then get ninja kicks all dai. ;[ Although, I don't think I am patient enough, so I'd probaly get kicked anyways.

I dunno. I kinda think I need help with the cg situation. Is there something I should know before I continue practicing cgs? I'm practicing Chaingrabs on a fox... in training mode. : D Also, I am again trying to practice with my up b canceling. Like Dogy said, consistency is good, and I want to be consistent. I mean, to use upbc's on fast fallies. : D I was practicing but the comp was on so Imma check for stuff I might need to know before getting off again.

 

[otg]

As of right now, I'm somewhat convinced Doc's worst matchups are the spacies.

 

[Palpi]

I have been having a lot of trouble with falco lately.

 

[Dynamism?]

Doggy : When you're playing someone GOOD, which you no doubt most likely are, they aren't going to be making many mistakes, if any.
Limiting yourself won't work, you have to limit THEM.

Sumo : There's a Doc I play frequently called Crispii and he UpB cancelled me into a combo in a few friendlies. That **** is TIGHT and soooo doable! LOL

Shroomed : Good ****. You have any vids of that? I'll just check for them, gotta show Crispii too. hahaha

 

[Lovage]

i didnt have my controller ***S

thats the only time shroom beats me when i have to use some tight controller where i cant move fast LOL

were like 3-0 when i have my controller and 1-2 when i dont

 

[otg]

Sounds like some Johns to me lovage.

 

[Shroomed]

i didnt have my controller ***S

thats the only time shroom beats me when i have to use some tight controller where i cant move fast LOL

were like 3-0 when i have my controller and 1-2 when i dont

bull ****

i'll **** you anytime oscar

MM me with ur controller, see if that makes any difference lol

phil knows how to fight doc cuz of HMW, that **** was hard lol

phil is one of the hardest foxes as doc, and shiz is def the hardest falco as doc

 

[ChivalRuse]

Shiz has that SmashMac practissss.

 

[otg]

I think what it really comes down to is spacies who know what they are doing and don't take stupid ****ing chances (like 99% of spacies do) will **** doc.

 

[SmashMac]

Yeah me and Shiz play every day after he gets home from technical school xD. Good job Shroomed at that tourney. I'm really glad my brother won it.

 

[Shroomed]

I think what it really comes down to is spacies who know what they are doing and don't take stupid ****ing chances (like 99% of spacies do) will **** doc.

THIS, TIMES 8916914173641956794165417

i had no idea what to do vs shiz

in other news, shiz is one of the coolest ppl ever

and he says WC docs play jus like smashmac

cept he's a lil more technical (upB cancel OOS) and we're a lil smarter

 

[Dynamism?]

UpB Cancel OOS o.O
Regularly?
That's so sexy.

Smarts ftw though ;D

Lovage johns

 

[SmashMac]

Shiz/KSN but Shiz in particular has been able to **** my mind in fighting-games since we were kids. Him and KSN have always wrecked me in fighting-games. I dunno what it is I don't think I have the mind-hand coordination they do and their mindsets are more keen to fighting-games than mine is. Sometimes I question how I could even be considered a pro. Doc. player when I play him. When we play I'm just sitting there thinking to myself, "Today is the day you take a set off of him." and I'm disappointed 99.9X10^8029384% of the time. He makes me feel better though whenever he tells me it's like I'm playing an M2K, PC Chris or Mango. I don't think my mind has made the switch that my brothers are fckin' amazing at this game and are just better than me at it (for now since I do try to get better), probably just because they're my brothers. I always try to play smarter but when I do I *** up on stupid stuff. Somehow in tournaments though I never mess up and play better. I think the pressure subconsciously psychs me out to think about every move my opponent and I do. Generally in tournaments though I forget that it's tournament and just have fun.

 

[KirbyKaze]

i didnt have my controller ***S

thats the only time shroom beats me when i have to use some tight controller where i cant move fast LOL

were like 3-0 when i have my controller and 1-2 when i dont

bull ****

i'll **** you anytime oscar

MM me with ur controller, see if that makes any difference lol

phil knows how to fight doc cuz of HMW, that **** was hard lol

phil is one of the hardest foxes as doc, and shiz is def the hardest falco as doc

 

[St. Viers]

@Dynamism: it isn't really that hard. Usually, if I mess up at all, it's the first time, and an easily correctable problem...after that, it's just muscle memory akin to pulling of a super in traditional fighting games ^_^

@Smashmac: same w/ my twin and I in most games (smash being a notable exception), so I know how it feels. Luckily, your bros seem cool about it.

 

[ranmaru]

I want to do a road trip now! Seriously, I'm seriously considering getting an RV and stuff, that would be so awesome. I get money, so Imma save it up.

But yeah, I want more smash experiences. : D Its hard for me cuz I like want to be great and stuff but I only get to practice in my room D: <. Lol /rant

And Smashmac, I wish I had a bro to play with at least. : D My sis is here, but she doesn't play games. xD

 

[Dynamism?]

Smash is the only video game I've ever played more than once in my life... which is most of the reason people say I have the most ****ed up style ever...
I started winning from reading and smarts 100% of the way, the pressing buttons thing was all new to me. >_>

Anything technical blows my mind and takes me a long time to figure out.

 

[ranmaru]

I'm more technical than smart, it seems. Thats why I don't do well with Brawl. (thats my friends tell me, but I'll take their word for it, and practice smarts as well : D )

 

[HugS™]

I got 3-0'd by Shiz in losers semis

in other news, I beat hugs in our first time playing

and I beat lovage, pink shinobi and I lost to Phil
got 4th, once again RITE UNDER MONEY

I was borrowing controllers all day because I left mine 6 hours away at home.

Looking forward to our next match.

 

[otg]

wtf is with these WC johners. *****s not bringing their controllers to tourney and ****.

 

[Shroomed]

I was borrowing controllers all day because I left mine 6 hours away at home.

Looking forward to our next match.

i played darkmike quite a bit in these past two tournies and learned quite a bit from those matches

but im also lookin forward to our next match

 

[ChivalRuse]

What I would do for a sibling who was good at smash / wanted to be good...

 

[unknown522]

bull ****

i'll **** you anytime oscar

MM me with ur controller, see if that makes any difference lol

oh ****, it's on.

phil is one of the hardest foxes as doc, and shiz is def the hardest falco as doc

I'm surprised. Phil?

*slams fist on table* F***ing. 3rd. again. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU -headasplode-

And I'm extra mad cause I had 2nd, and like, just lost. I didn't choke (imo), and I didn't get outplayed, it just did what I thought I was supposed to and it didnt work out. -punches wall-

RAAAAAAAAAGE.

_____

I did learn some stuff, though, so it all works out.

1) I'm probably going to have to change my CF ban to Rainbow Cruise. The capfal i played first round (who's an aight guy, not spectacular, but not bad by any stretch), took me to RC. I actually cringed at that cause, well, nobody's thought to take me to RC since G4S5 (which was ... 2 or 3 years ago? Whatever december before brawl came out). Needless to say I felt like I was about to lose that match. Haven't touched the stage in years, so i had to come up with a strat on the fly. I got a better idea of how it works but man that was just kinda scary for a bit. XD

2) Ever play so defensive and so safe that it's a fault? If you don't know the answer to this, you might wanna watch your play (or have somebody competent analyze your play) and see if that's the case. I just HAPPENED to be looking at the vids from 2 weeks ago and FMM said I was "Defensive as ****, especially compared to shroomed". I mean yeah, I knew I liked to move and run alot, but I didn't think i was super defensive. Then I looked at those vids and analyzed what I was doing. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah so defensive it was hurting me. Didn't even realize I'd gone that far down. You're not always going to win if all you're really doing is looking for mistakes, gotta recognize if that's what you're doing.

3) I get what Romen asked me last year, and it's a pretty good question I'll have to look into. "How is Doc supposed to beat a camping fox?" Yeah, that's what Yay did to me, and I was like, 1 hit away from winning all 3 games in WF, but it just felt odd. I got some ideas, but I gotta look around. And when I say camping fox, i mean real camping foxes. Not no Jmans and Uuaas. No, contrary to popular belief, those 2 really don't camp.

4) *The 18spikes special* So I've come to the conclusion that I'ma have to let FD go. If for nothing else, but it's a **** fact that everybody's gunna ban it against me now (Except for FMM, who refuses to play me on a stage I'm never gunna CP anyway (DL64)). But to make matters worse, I played some friendlies with Merc's ganon (one of his mains), of all the games we played, he scraped my *** on FD. Like, I don't even know what-went-wrong scraped.

THAT'S IT FOR DOGY'S RANDOM RANTS. OFF TO PLAY SC4 AND THE NEW RE5 DLC!

__

edit: Gotta collect on my all-in.


^^^ Doubles Up! ^^^

I don't want to separate the quote because I will have to change the color/font/etc.

1) You're not going to ban DL on CF? Why?

2) playing too defensive can be a fault, especially if you don't have experience fighting up close, or you just get out-camped because of character/opponent's skill. Switching up is important (Not saying that you don't have experience fighting up close. A lot of people have that fault though).

3)That last part about Jman and Uaa is true afaik. I wish you good luck on finding a good answer to fox's camping.

4)Why don't you CP YS? It's a good stage vs a lot of common matchups.

As of right now, I'm somewhat convinced Doc's worst matchups are the spacies.

how come? (not really saying that I disagree. I just want to know your opinion). Aside from the camping.

 

[Desh]

let's do it. how much/what char?

Falco Doc vs your w.e ? =D
Idk, maybe a buck or 2.
You going to viks tourny?

Oh yeah, not the toronto thread LOOOL.
hai dogy =3.

 

[Dogysamich]

1) You're not going to ban DL on CF? Why?

2) playing too defensive can be a fault, especially if you don't have experience fighting up close, or you just get out-camped because of character/opponent's skill. Switching up is important (Not saying that you don't have experience fighting up close. A lot of people have that fault though).

3)That last part about Jman and Uaa is true afaik. I wish you good luck on finding a good answer to fox's camping.

4)Why don't you CP YS? It's a good stage vs a lot of common matchups.

how come? (not really saying that I disagree. I just want to know your opinion). Aside from the camping.

1) I mean, with striking i'd have more of a chance to see, but I've never liked capfal on PS. Too many weird platforms, walls, and overall close spaces.

2) I just gotten to the point of where i play extra defensive. Just, stupid defensive. It's not really an upclose thing, it's not a non-experience thing. It's so defensive that you don't take the given chances you have.

3) I think I have an idea of how it works, I just don't like it. Makes me rethink GAPeach's statement from early last year when he said "Anybody who plays melee and DOESN'T play fox is a ******."

4) I hate small stages. It's because of how I play. Like, i actually have no problem playing on it, but I normally benefit more from having room than having none.

It's like this, now that Mute City is gone, I'm probably going to ban YS against Jiggs/Peach/Samus now and let them pick DL all day.

 

[otg]

how come? (not really saying that I disagree. I just want to know your opinion). Aside from the camping.

Well tbh, I'm incredibly biased. Recently I've been beasting on Marth/sheik in Tri-state. In tourney I would always fight a spacies main (like G$ or hazz or someone) and they would lose game 1, switch to Marth and I would lose the set. The opposite is happening now. As of right now I'm pretty convinced Doc v. Marth/Sheik is nowhere near as bad as I used to think it was.

I'm not entirely sure as to why this is happening, but I have a few theories. I think the big thing is that spacies have way more potential overall then Marth/Sheik, and as they get campier, faster, use platforms better, don't take dumb chances and more technical (so it's harder to land grabs), there is just very little room for error when playing as Doc. Now I'm not claiming the matchups are like 70-30 (maybe on some brutal stages they are), if anything they are both around like 60-40 or 65-35 range.

I'm also of the opinion right now that Doc doesn't have any matchups worse than 60-40 (minus matchups on his bad CP stages).

Oh, and another thing is that in general I've just been playing against a ton of Marth's recently, and getting very little spacies practice, so it might just be me.

 

[Dogysamich]

ya know. I started to type a wall for that. Got all the way through and all I had to do was hit the ok button.

But then I was like "oh wait, people around here stop at results, they dont look into details. I clearly just said I beat a Marth and (a falcon) and lost to a Fox and Falco. F*** it i screwed myself*

and hit the ctrl + a -> backspace combo.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Having played UUAA, I feel that UUAA does not really camp with any sort of commitment. He just sort of overwhelms with technical power and speed. Blazingly quick SHDL and RSHDL just happen to be components of technical power and speed.

 

[Vulcan55]

Spacies are gay.
But on the other hand, I practiced the floaty MU's to death because I thought I'd just be able to CG spacies. No big deal.
Well it is. (Unless they ban Brinstar, lol)

 

[Dynamism?]

My theory on how to beat Fox/Flacos of the near future (and today) is to be aggressive. Sure it's risky and really freakin hard to do well, but I don't see it happening any other way.

Trading hits = good for Doc
Just don't get hit more than them and most importantly, if they look like they're gonna run, run with them.

Essentially you just have to be a better player to win and play aggressively while you're at it.

>_>

 

[Dogysamich]

trading hits is fine till you trade with a falco d.air.

 

[ranmaru]

Oh god ow. xD Trading hits with Marth hurts too but isn't as bad as falco's dair. Oh man I hate that xD

 

[St. Viers]

nah, trading hit's w/ marth is excellent. It's the whole not getting the trade cuz of spacing that sucks XD.

 

[otg]

nah, trading hit's w/ marth is excellent. It's the whole not getting the trade cuz of spacing that sucks XD.

I totally agree, you can CC most of his **** too.

 

[ranmaru]

Oh yeah, I hate when that happens. CC? Hmmm I see. : D

 

[VGmasta]

As of right now, I'm somewhat convinced Doc's worst matchups are the spacies.

Don't be convinced OTG. It's definitely Marth, TRUST ME.

I think what it really comes down to is spacies who know what they are doing and don't take stupid ****ing chances (like 99% of spacies do) will **** doc.

Agreed.