Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[KirbyKaze]

how the hell does doc have a crappy recovery... with a god priority up b that can be used at any moment and will wallspike you at zero. not to mention cape and stuff...

1) god priority doesn't matter when the standard anti-Doc Up+B strat involves moves with ledge invincibility being hopped

2) wallspike is negated for similar reason

3) cape is negated for similar reason

4) stuff is negated for similar reason

5) it's really short

The only kind of good thing about it is that he can do a bunch of stuff to hang in the air but he can't gain much height from it, or much useful height. So he winds up spazzing out in the same place for a while and then Up+Bs to the same place he would have Up+Bed to a minute ago.

So if they just refresh their invincibility, he can't really do anything.

And then his Up+B lag is monster when he lands on the stage so he can be comboed hard or hit back off whenever he Up+Bs onto level. Assuming, of course, ledgehop invinvible move missed because they have horrible timing (more common than you think) or they didn't attempt it because they figured the bigger punish would be better than killing Doc outright for some reason (iunno, I guess it's easier than ledgehop invincible move because he lags for longer? Or their character is Peach and they can't ledgehop invincible move? idk).

 

[Scidadle]

Stuff is the best part in docs recovery

Troof

 

[Dogysamich]

how the hell does doc have a crappy recovery... with a god priority up b that can be used at any moment and will wallspike you at zero. not to mention cape and stuff...

You got knocked any real distance away from the stage.

Your *2* options are to

A) Grab the ledge
B) Up+b onto the stage

Up+b is pretty good if people actually want to challenge it, but why, when you can just let doc back on the stage and punish that?

 

[VGmasta]

You got knocked any real distance away from the stage.

Your *2* options are to

A) Grab the ledge
B) Up+b onto the stage

Up+b is pretty good if people actually want to challenge it, but why, when you can just let doc back on the stage and punish that?

Small risk, huge reward for the opponent to grab ledge when Doc has only those 2 options of recovery. It's a win-win for the opponent to grab ledge, gain invincibility frames on the ledgegrab. And then to do regular get up from ledge (by simply pressing the movestick to the direction of the stage) for more additional invincibility frames and a possible edgehog. Either way, stagespike/priority is negated at this point as someone mentioned before. And landing on the stage with Up-B pretty much leads to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxtZIzgkIG4#t=106s
"OOF!.... D'oh!"

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

hey guys i just had an epiphany about my playstyle

some voice in my head jus told me

APPROACH WITH SOMETHING OTHER THAN NEUTRAL AIR!!!!!

hopefully this will improve my performance and skill level

i had and epiphany to!!!

to play with confidence =)

i psyched myself out alot and play with 0 confidence, and think about losing all the time

like my biggest fear in tournament is me and losing, so i gotta whoop HMW!!!!!

i usually wanna stop playing when i get ****ed up, but that would kinda kill my goal to get better and its kind of a ***** move

so hopefully it works out!
(everytime i get like this i get whooped tho)

^CANT THINK THAT WAY THO, I GOT THIS!!!!!!

also, i think im finally understanding the sheik mathcup....sort of

but i gotta a long way to in general go son!

gotta stay positive!

anndddd im rambling about myself.....not legit hahahaha

 

[VGmasta]

Confidence does get you far in this game (Or any matter of life)! This game becomes 1000 times easier when you're not worried so much about losing.

 

[Dogysamich]

i had and epiphany to!!!

to play with confidence =)

Ya know, I meant to tell you about this idea I had for you, and I"m bout to tell you on aim right now.

Ironically, although I still go about things "The Dogy Way" (which is to aim low and be surprised when **** happens), I know for a fact my play changed a whole lot after the one tourney I was supposed to team with GAWes (I say was supposed to because of the story of why the tourney NEVER happened. It was IC4 if anybody keeps up with GA smash).

But yeah, GAWes has no problem with talkin a trash. It's all in good fun, never means any harm by it, but he always does it. Playin teams with him changed my thought process of ALWAYS being "I've got to respect what my opponent does." to "Hey, I'm doing this, and if you don't like it GET THE **** OFF MY STAGE."

It was pretty interesting.

 

[otg]

But yeah, GAWes has no problem with talkin a trash. It's all in good fun, never means any harm by it, but he always does it. Playin teams with him changed my thought process of ALWAYS being "I've got to respect what my opponent does." to "Hey, I'm doing this, and if you don't like it GET THE **** OFF MY STAGE."

It was pretty interesting.

I have a friend who plays like this now with pretty much every character and it mind ****s me.

 

[mallu000]

Missed my first chance going to a smashfest. At least my friend got there and hopefully he learned what it feels like to play against Top characters. I don't mind him using only Sheik/Falco/Marth but what he says about Mario or Doc after every lose is freaking annoying.

It's always like this: "Don't use Doc, he's overpowered. You should main a real character."

After he had run about ten times to shffled Nair I told him not to do that and think about something else. "Don't you tell me how to play with Falco"

We are quite even in skills but he lacks understanding of the game generally not that I know much but I'm always reading/learning something new. I think he should quit Mario Kart Wii and start reading smashboards or else I'll do something nasty to his face.

 

[Dogysamich]

lol.

Doc's not THAT good, but, contrary to what a lot of people say (me included), he DOES have a bunch of stuff going for him.

______________________________________
Edit
Omg lol.

18s got me on his ustream watching him (or cosmo, i really dont know) destroy people in SC4 online, with his autopilot talim.

**** is set to cruise. It's pretty comical.

Thanks for the fakeleap shoutout.

__________________________
Double edit Nobody's posting in here today.
So, now I'm watching 18s and Cosmo's play though OoT. Glitchin this game hard. It's pretty funny.

Anyway, here's an update for the matchup guide.

I have 13 matchups left.

-Sheik
-Falco
-Peach
-CapFal
-Jiggs
-ICs
-Samus
-Doc
-Ganon
-Luigi
-DK
-Mario
-Link

And then, I have to go back, add a few sections, add some stuff to the intro, proofread it, and it's done.

You're not going to get it by the new year, unless I get like, super bored on thursday (as I should have stuff to do every other day), but it is coming.

_________________________
Triple Edit
So seriously. An entire day and nobody posted in here?

HEY 18S GUESS WHAT I KILLED SOME PEOPLE WITH D.TILT TODAY. MOVE IS STILL TRASH.

 

[eighteenspikes]

obligatory "dtilt owns" post so dogy doesnt have to double post

 

[Ocean]

dtilt is docs new metagame.

 

[N64]

so i'm about to play dogy for the first time since this summer.

I am not prepared.

edit: ouch

 

[otg]

WHAT'S REALL GOOOOD *****SSSSSS

Not doc.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Are you serious, OTG? Doc is soooo broken! >_<

 

[otg]

Have You Seen My Sludge?!

 

[Shibbypod]

Hey guys, rate my doc (not too harshly tho, I know I'm not great, and I spam doc punchis in this match kinda on purpose just to practice L canceling)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdedXXfMCcw

 

[unknown522]

dogy, I'll let you field this one.

since you're using f-air like that on purpose, I can't give proper advice. Hitting with it is more sad IMO.

 

[Dogysamich]

so i'm about to play dogy for the first time since this summer.

I am not prepared.

edit: ouch

I hope you blowing me out of the fricking water with sheik was not on your mind when you said ouch, cause you're bull**** and a half otherwise.

Hey guys, rate my doc (not too harshly tho, I know I'm not great, and I spam doc punchis in this match kinda on purpose just to practice L canceling)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdedXXfMCcw

I mean, since you're working so much on your l-canceling, you need to work on all the variations of your aerials.

short hop fast fall l-cancel (SHFFL)
short hop l-cancel
full hop fast fall l-cancel
full hop l-cancel

You gotta do all those whiffing a target, hitting it, and then hitting it's shield (although shield timing is a slight variable).

___

But the big thing you need to work on is moving after you lcancel something. You're so focused on L-canceling that like, you'll do it, and then you'll stand there for a second. L-canceling doesnt do you too much good if you're standing there afterwards. So get used to

l-canceling and then
jumping, blocking, attacking, etc etc.

All the good stuff.

__

But yeah, you're gettin the hang of what you wanted from that. Good job.

 

[VGmasta]

Hey guys, rate my doc (not too harshly tho, I know I'm not great, and I spam doc punchis in this match kinda on purpose just to practice L canceling)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdedXXfMCcw

Welcome to the Doc boards, Shibbypod. (I've never seen you in here so I'm assuming you're new to the Doc boards)

You seem like you have pretty good control of Doc already. You utilize wavedash and wavelanding nicely. I can pretty much tell you main a fast character (probably Fox or Falcon) of some sort by the way you space yourself away with dashdancing/wavedash after knocking your opponent to the edge of the stage. Your maneuvers seemed to trick your opponents into getting up onto the stage from the ledge. Good edgeguards too! And oh yeah, your L-canceling is not bad either. You had everything you needed for that Game & Watch player.

Anyway, nice job overall. You should join the club of Doc. mains now. I'm almost sure you use to play Falcon by those videos I peeped at on your Youtube file .

 

[InterimOfZeal]

guys

im pretty sure imma still play Doc

hes just too fun

but i like jiggz brokenness

and falcos pew pew combos and traps

i dunno what to do

-MaNg0

notrly

 

[Shibbypod]

Thanks you guys! I am new to posting at the doc boards for sure, but I have been playing as doc for a long time in competitions (Michigan!) But I have played fox and falcon both for a while also, so good guesses on that.

 

[eighteenspikes]

shibby youre still coming to c4p on the 9th right?

 

[Shibbypod]

I still plan on going, it just all depebds on money. Sorry but no money matches this time 18! Maybe next time or at a smashfest or something.

 

[eighteenspikes]

meh we can record some friendly sets or somethihn lol glad to hear you can make it

 

[Shroomed]

boss, are we still teaming for pound 4?

 

[boss8]

boss, are we still teaming for pound 4?

yea lets goez

 

[Dogysamich]

Aight guys.

So, I went to a wack tourney in town (it was posted on SWF). Demolished everybody. I got the first tourney win of 2010* under my belt.

lol yes.

HEY GUESS WHAT 18S, I KILLED SOMEBODY WITH D.TILT 3 TIMES JUST FOR YOU, cause some people there were ridiculous bad.

________

Anyway, i'm bout to start on the falco section to the guide.

It's kinda funny: I'm gunna go through and add a few sections for every character, nothing major. Just like, generic meta strategy. But I want to go through and delete all of the recovery sections (or, "How to recover VS _____") because they're all like "You're doc, don't get hit and you have hope."

It's sad.

 

[Ocean]

dogy, how many entrants?

 

[mallu000]

How do you guys avoid Marth's techchase-grabbing? My friend just learned to do that properly and now he's just butchering my Doc.

 

[Dogysamich]

dogy, how many entrants?

4.

It wasnt anything serious, the people in my city are overall horrid at melee, at smash, and pretty much at everything competitive. There's one melee player who's ok (he was there), but they're all free.

XD

How do you guys avoid Marth's techchase-grabbing? My friend just learned to do that properly and now he's just butchering my Doc.

You talkin about the d.throw into the corner trap? (If not, tell me which one)

Really you just have to pick and pray.

The first thing you have to understand is that you HAVE to tech if you're going to hit the ground. If we're on the same page, you should be talking about the m2k corner setup.

The way it works (for people who don't know) is Marth grabs you and d.throws you into a corner (not off the stage, but right next to the ledge). At this point you obviously can tech or not tech. Marth gets a free d.tilt to "check" your tech (Read: To FORCE you to tech).

You want to DI away from Marth so that you get the most distance. You're trying to get off the stage if possible. If you know you can't make it and you're feelin brave, you can DI in to mess up spacing but understand you're really BEGGING marth to just hit you with a smash at this point.

If you're going to hit the stage, then you HAVE to tech. He gets the free d.tilt, like I said, so not teching causes you to go off the stage at a low angle (unless he just KNOWS you're not going to tech and so he f.smashes instead.)

After that, you really just have to tech somewhere and hope he reads wrong or messes up. If he telegraphs anything, react to it (like, if he walks forward predicting you to roll TOWARDS the ledge, roll away. Or if he's flat out walking away from the corner, roll in). But really, you just have to tech somewhere and pray. There's nothing you can do so long as he's right. Do buffer something in the event he is late though. A roll, a spotdodge, jump, attack, something.

TL;DR: Tech and pray. That's really all you can do.

 

[boss8]

vids or it didnt happen....xD

 

[VGmasta]

It's kinda funny: I'm gunna go through and add a few sections for every character, nothing major. Just like, generic meta strategy. But I want to go through and delete all of the recovery sections (or, "How to recover VS _____") because they're all like "You're doc, don't get hit and you have hope."

It's sad.

*sighs and nods head at Docs recovery options*

 

[Dogysamich]

vids or it didnt happen....xD

Man the tourney was so bad, if you wanna cockblock me on it like that feel free.

It was terribad.

 

[otg]

Whenever I do the dthrow corner trap to Mogwai as marth he always techs away from the ledge towards the middle of the stage. EVERY SINGLE TIME. I asked him why and his rationale was that each throw is only a few %, and its better than teching towards the ledge and eating an fsmash.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Whenever I do the dthrow corner trap to Mogwai as marth he always techs away from the ledge towards the middle of the stage. EVERY SINGLE TIME. I asked him why and his rationale was that each throw is only a few %, and its better than teching towards the ledge and eating an fsmash.

Everyone techs in. It's all the rage. Also, when I fthrow Falcon near the edge, I find the tech-in proportion extremely high. I always wavedash back and fsmash.

 

[JPOBS]

Whenever I do the dthrow corner trap to Mogwai as marth he always techs away from the ledge towards the middle of the stage. EVERY SINGLE TIME. I asked him why and his rationale was that each throw is only a few %, and its better than teching towards the ledge and eating an fsmash.

because it is.

tech'ing in forces marth to Regrab you and back throw again. either that or go for something else in which case he hits you forward into the centre stage and you can escape.

but continually being backthrown is better than eating a tipped fsmash. and theres a small chance you can mindgame the marth by teching in place or (shocker) towards the edge and MAYBE get away with if he's slow on reaction.

and then double mindgames start becuase if you do this successflly even once, the marth will probably try to predict when you're going to try it, and then if you just tech in again he will miss if he tries to punish the techinplace/away.

 

[S l o X]

doc is fun in teams tho D:

 

[Scidadle]

Teams is where doc doesn't suck.

But I suck at teams so it's like doc sucks at me

 

[Dogysamich]

Lol, so i'm lookin for some random *** doc vids on youtube, and I came across this vid.

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Good times.