Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[Dogysamich]

I just don't like the idea of trying to "TRADE HITS" with Doc's upB.... they will start baiting that and it's not like Doc's upB is safe after he enters the free fall animation. Thats just askin for a fox to intentionally misspace a Nair, bait the UpB, and than proceed to **** you in the most horrible way imaginable (especially if he hits you while you are still in the freefall animation).

Its not a BAD idea, it's just risky. Honestly, if I was confident in my ability to read a fox that well EVERY time, i'd do it. Fiction doesnt have a bad idea by any stretch of the imagination, its just risky.

Some people work well with risks, some dont.

On a side note, I know this is NOT new at all, but it's something I don't see people doing. Out of the dthrow CG on spacies, if they try to DI behind you, you can turn around dsmash for a sexy KO. I also had something else really useful to report but I can't think of it now, so I'll update more when I remember.

I mean, not to burst your d.throw CG bubble, but I d.throw d.smash all day on FFers (capfal included), because I blow at tech chasing onto platforms.

If you're looking for something else you can do, you could either

d.throw -> jab -> -nonsense-
d.throw -> b.air, if they're at a high enough %.

Then you can also do the old skool stuff, which is d.throw -> upsmash (in which case they have to be at like, 120% or so?). Cause it's not like upsmash DOESNT kill (it's a **** good kililng move), it's just the condition for it is dumb.

If Fox does a low nair, he can shine before your dsmash comes out. Its just easier to throw out dairs than jumping in with late aerials. Its risky.

*slaps this in desh's face*
Yeah,

Doc CC D.smash > Fox -High- N.air -> shine
Doc CC D.smash < Fox late N.air -> shine.

Gotta tell which n.air plane is coming in for landing.

-jab stuff-

*option resets to next post*

i've also noticed thst the jab is strogn and allows for rolls.

but cant ALL jab resets be rolled out of after a certain percent? tis what i though anyway

1) If you want anything about jabs, Im pretty sure magus has it somewhere. I'da sworn I've seen the stat list of jabs written by him somewhere.

As for rolling out of jab resets. Yes you can. Infact, you can roll or getup attack out of jab resets. It's just one of those things alot of people dont do.

Kinda like people... not DIing Doc's fair right.

 

[JPOBS]

yea. its funny the things a lot of people fal for either because they dont know or they dont do it habitually

 

[otg]

I swear that Doc's stops working at super low%'s tho, atleast in comparison to Fox who gets thunders all dai.

 

[Gea]

Fox can gets way more opportunities to techchase than we do.

 

[otg]

Fox can gets way more opportunities to techchase than we do.

uh............... duh?

 

[ssbbFICTION]

I've also been working on edgecancelling doc's up b and comboing it into stuff. You guys will prlly yell useless but I see potential XD

 

[St. Viers]

go for it--the worst thing that can happen is we learn that upB is still just a useful tool in certain situation, and the best is finding out more ways to use an already useful move. ^.^

 

[Gea]

uh............... duh?

Well that's why it seems like ours never works lol.

 

[KirbyKaze]

i've also noticed thst the jab is strogn and allows for rolls.

but cant ALL jab resets be rolled out of after a certain percent? tis what i though anyway

After a certain percent, jab resets allow for rolls and get-up attack instead of just standing reset. Varies from character to character.

You can also SDI a jab in any direction and avoid being reset altogether, at any percent, or ASDI up after a certain percent and just pop up.

I don't know Doc's percentages. Sheik's jab on Falcon is like 32 or something though for the ASDI thing.

 

[tibs7]

does shroomed or HMW have any new videos up to watch?
and how do you edge cancel the upb?

 

[otg]

There are some new vids of Shroomed being uploaded right now vs. Lovage. Really close set.

and waffles vs. Germ.

Waffles, why did you CP Germ to brinstar? Im curious, whats ur logic behind it?

 

[JPOBS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyxxvDkb9-E&feature=sub#t=0m47s

shroomed your pretty good

 

[Vulcan55]

You'r e*

 

[Desh]

There are some new vids of Shroomed being uploaded right now vs. Lovage. Really close set.

and waffles vs. Germ.

Waffles, why did you CP Germ to brinstar? Im curious, whats ur logic behind it?

i can think of a few reasons

one of the big ones being that it neutralizes a lot of the things link has over doc in the match up. (edge gaurding/recovering etc.)
also brinstar is pretty big. You can live to some pretty ****ed up %'s if you know how to di.

its fairly roomy, so if you like room you got it. its harder for link to spam **** there cuz of lava and stuff.

also lava>____>____> fair? idk lmao jk jk. no but rly. lava combos lolol.

 

[Gea]

After a certain percent, jab resets allow for rolls and get-up attack instead of just standing reset. Varies from character to character.

I thought those options were always available but had to be inputted before the getup started?

 

[Dogysamich]

@Fiction: Im not gunna tell you anything you come up with is flat out useless unless it involves d.tilt. XD

I'll probably tell you I've heard it before, because again, you're just taking back down memory lane with $mac.

Waffles, why did you CP Germ to brinstar? Im curious, whats ur logic behind it?

I havent watched it yet, but by looking at match 2 and then match 3, I'd hope it's something along the lines of

1) HMW wants platforms for some ungodly reason instead to get around Germ's spacing. Which is a perfectly viable reason, I just like CGs

or

2) He was sick and tired of having to deal with hookshot.

*plays the quicklist* lets see what happens.

 

[TresChikon]

Welcome to last year I guess?

Those are the points where SDI is triggered through rotation after passing them (arrows indicating the direction of rotation). I've found a pretty reliable way to do it is by wiggling between those 2 top-most points very quickly.


I SDI your techchases quite often... except you never seem to actually use jab against me. I do end up SDIing your u-smashes instead though, lol.

Here's Magus's lovely guide to not getting jab resetted.

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

There are some new vids of Shroomed being uploaded right now vs. Lovage. Really close set.

and waffles vs. Germ.

Waffles, why did you CP Germ to brinstar? Im curious, whats ur logic behind it?

kills link grapple and the lava kind of whoops link(to me anyway) i couldve pick mute tho

i always lose to Germ and wanted to win pretty much LOL

 

[KirbyKaze]

I thought those options were always available but had to be inputted before the getup started?

In a lot of cases they are but in a lot of other cases they're not. You can always roll or attack on Marth's jab, even at 0 with Fox (iirc). But if you try to do such a thing on Puff's jab, you will fail.

Stronger jab seems to allow the reset options (rolls, attack) at earlier percentages, in my experience. Fox is by far the most vulnerable character to jab resets, followed by Falco and then Falcon. After that I don't really know.

 

[otg]

kills link grapple and the lava kind of whoops link(to me anyway) i couldve pick mute tho

i always lose to Germ and wanted to win pretty much LOL

good **** bro. After watching the vid I def see what ur getting at. I'm going to keep this in mind for Links/Samus' from now on.

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

good **** bro. After watching the vid I def see what ur getting at. I'm going to keep this in mind for Links/Samus' from now on.

thanks

yea that or mute city can help, i just picked brinstar cuz of the platforms and i would have recovery(unlike mute)

but doc on brinstar is pretty good

shroomed is prolly the one who made doc on brinstar common ground on wc

 

[Stos]

thanks

yea that or mute city can help, i just picked brinstar cuz of the platforms and i would have recovery(unlike mute)

but doc on brinstar is pretty good

shroomed is prolly the one who made doc on brinstar common ground on wc

you beat my idol in a set

IM MADDD

just kidding good stuff.

when you cp'd brinstar i was lol wtf but then that **** payed off. I really like your doc =D

 

[ssbbFICTION]

The left platform on brinstar your pills either bounce straight up back towards you, out of a SH they go straight up, and out of a fullhop they go ever so slightly forward. Its sooooo **** XD.

 

[The GERM]

Good sh** Brandon!

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

Good sh** Brandon!

aye man

u tapped the week after

its still 50-1 germ

 

[St. Viers]

^^you'll get him again, I'm sure...doc's too good

 

[VGmasta]

Nice job HMW! I would've took that elf to Battlefield! But that lava at Brinstar does add another dimension that Battlefield lacks. I feel like the lava could've worked out for either party though. Plus Battlefield wouldn't mess up my pill spamming. I guess it's about whatever you're more comfortable with.

Oh yea, very smart in not picking Mute City. Otherwise, how would you avoid Link's edgeguard using Spin Attack?!

 

[St. Viers]

^^um, battlefield is one of links better stages, imo--easiest for him to control w/ projectiles, trap you n platforms...

but what do I know?

 

[Desh]

Yeah your right viers. I dislike battle field vs link.
Might be just a preference though. Cuz i like taking fox and marth to yoshis. And sheik to dl64.

 

[Gea]

Oh Desh, you so crazy.

 

[Desh]

*shrugs*
Idk.
I find those match ups easiest there for some reason that most definitely wont make sense.
I just like it. :]

Actually, i think i'd rather take marth and fox to fd.

Depends whos marth or fox i'm playing and how i'm playing i guess lol.

 

[St. Viers]

my stage preferences seem quite close to yours, desh! XD

 

[Vulcan55]

Lol, HomeMadeMuffins.

 

[Desh]

Lol yay 2k posts for viers =D
cool.
I like muffins.

I really like platforms. and for me, dl64 and yoshis are ideal. I dont like battle fields edge. at all. period.
If i'm getting camped i'd prolly go ys or fd. So they either dont have enough room to camp, or i can camp back and take advantage of my grabs to the fullest.

Ideally i like to see DL64 come up as my first match.
I can cg, i have my platforms and space. Nice for feeling out play styles. Also i dont mind the less advantageous platforms for marth.

If i get plat camped, i go to fd, if i get lasers/projectile camped, i go to ys, if i they're really agressive, I go FoD, FD, or occasionally mute. Scratch that, fd would be first if theyre really in my face.

I normally just ban battle field. with any character i play. Does nothing to help me. Doesn't really hurt anyones recovery anymore than it does mine(Grapples aren't effected, they can still latch to the bottom middle and recover, not to mention just sweet spot.), and if i need platforms or enclosed space i have ys or fod.

Blah. Idk.

I really dont see anything doc could want to go to BF for over any other choice.

 

[Acolyte]

I saw some guy playing doc at a tournament vs a marth. somehow he always got a grab off at the end of his nairs each time. he somehow gets down after his aerial and tap resets marth and grabs him, which ive tried a million times and never seems to work. any idea wtf im doing wrong? i always get hit before i can grab

 

[St. Viers]

n-air late, and close to the ground, perhaps?

 

[Desh]

Nah you can nair>jab>marth if he doesnt cc grab. Regardless of when you nair. As long as its in a reasonable %...eventually it just wont work regardless of when the nair hits marth. Thats prolly all that you saw the doc doing. (Actually on a second thought of it, I may be wrong. i'm not certain.)

Why you cant do it? Could be a bunch of reasons.
Are you remembering to lcancel? Fast falling? Are you trying it at a mid-high%? Is your opponent cc grabbing the nair/jab?Are you playing doc?

 

[otg]

The nair might've knocked the marth on the ground, and the jab reset him.

 

[Acolyte]

no he was up, not down idk. he just stunned the marth with pillehs and naird him at no particularly late or early time and got the grab off. i think the problem is im not timing my fastfall right. idk this guy just did it perfectly every time and i thought it would be easy to do myself. apparently im noobier than i thought i was.

 

[otg]

Probably just a bad marth then lol.